What should Orlando do with Vuc?

[p0peye]

Offer him 2 years / 36 million or 15 million a year for anything longer. If someone else pays him more, good for him and good for us.

bro, stop with the hyperbole you know damn well that's not a fair deal...no gm would tender that offer, that's a joke offer considering the production playoffs or not. He'll get paid pretty close to what he's worth, no one is going to overpay for vuc he'll get a fair offer from us whether some of us like it or not.

(tangent) I keep seeing some people say "let vuc walk and sure we'll take a step back to take two forward" yeah....if taking a step back means another rebuild then i really have to question the direction of the franchise, we have to build on what we have now that we finally got SOMETHING going instead of being in the lottery every single year without fail. Give Vuc a fair deal, that is structured in a way that down the line it'll be tradeable if and when Bamba is ready to take over which is definitely not now or for the near future i think bamba is at least 2 years away.

I believe the FO has full autonomy to make these decisions however i doubt that ownership would be cool with "taking a step back" after finally seeing life around the amway arena, playoffs are great for business and at this point that's the direction we should be trending in.....we didn't rebuild correctly, that much is clear but at some point you have to get out from underwater man...7 years....i'm done with "taking a step back"

In general, I fully agree. It's sickening only to think of going back to loser's mentality that surrounded all those lottery years.

But considering possible development of Bamba, we might be looking to trade Vučević prior to 2021/22 season and in such case, his next contract must be tradeable from that moment forward. I don't care all that much about his salary in first two years of the contract.

If we can achieve that, not only we're set until Bamba develops, but also covered if by some chance he busts.

Trouble is, Vučević is unrestricted FA and there will be teams driving his price out of range suitable for mentioned scenario. In such case, we should think hard before committing to potentially bad contract in 2021/22.

[BCS]

We will never be anything special with Vuc being the focal point of our offense and my fear is Cliff will come into next season running the offense completely through Vuc like he did this season. If Cliff can come in with the mentality of sharing the offensive load and not be dependent on one player who doesn't show up when it counts then we should be good.

I don't mind bringing Vuc back at the right price only because we all know Bamba is not ready and at the end of the day he is an asset and that equals value in the future. But I also don't want to spend a big chunk of our cap on the C position.

[KillMonger]

We will never be anything special with Vuc being the focal point of our offense and my fear is Cliff will come into next season running the offense completely through Vuc like he did this season. If Cliff can come in with the mentality of sharing the offensive load and not be dependent on one player who doesn't show up when it counts then we should be good.

I don't mind bringing Vuc back at the right price only because we all know Bamba is not ready and at the end of the day he is an asset and that equals value in the future. But I also don't want to spend a big chunk of our cap on the C position.

Bro did you watch the series? it was bad matchup but what would the narrative be if we played the sixers? Vuc always plays well against them and if he did would the sentiment be the same? Guess we'll never know but there was a reason we played through Vuc and it's simple he was the best player all year long. Points, Rebounds, Assists, Defense all there through vuc i mean the only other reliable player was T-ross and even he has off nights but Vuc didn't have very many....he was the constant, he was the reliable all year long...shutting up pretty much everybody and he comes into his first post-season and didn't play well against a guy who had his number in the past and now it's "he didn't show up" i mean if you didn't say anything all year why start talking now?

It's like this man, cliff did what he did because vuc was the best player with the most reliable skills....i don't see how that's an indictment on Vuc.....it's the other players that got to step their game the F*** up so we don't have to play through him all the time and have a more balanced attack. With what he had at the time it was the best strategy, anyone can see that...also Cliff isn't known for the most creative offense, he's more meat and potatoes....plain and simple but effective.

[Bensational]

WeHam have said that they don't want to pay more than other franchises. So then you have to try and gauge what the market rate will be for Vuc. What other teams have cap space, and how much they'll be prepared to offer.

Kings seem the most likely to make a big offer. They'll have enough to offer Vuc $25M+, they have their backcourt, wings and PF in place. Vlade is a big fan of Vuc. I'm not sure how Walton would utilise Vuc, but it still seems like he's the final piece to tip that franchise back into a playoff appearance.

The Clippers might make him an offer, once they sign Kawhi, if they strike out on other options (Jimmy or a trade for AD are what I see as their follow up moves).

The Hawks might make him an offer as a veteran presence to add to Trey + Collins + their pick this year. Doubt it, but maybe. $25M+ isn't much when all you have is rookie scale contracts for the next 3-4 years.

Mavs seem to prioritise Kemba, but I feel like he will end up in LA with LeBron. So Vuc might become their backup option. $25M feels like too hefty a price for them.

So market rate, IMO, will be $20-25M. However, I don't think we'll be offering any more than $20M per season. Maaaaybe we offer to overpay for a short-term 2 year deal, but I doubt Vuc takes that. He seems like a man who will want stability over top dollar. And ultimately, with his replacement being groomed on the bench behind him, he might not find we offer the most stable future for him.

[AdamTheGreek]

The years will matter more than the money itself. Vooch would prefer the 4-year, $80 million deal over the 2-year, $44 million, IMO. He wants the security of knowing he's being signed to stick around somewhere for a long time. No mercenary bull.

I think so many people were so transfixed on how bad Vooch played against Gasol (Nik kicked Ibaka's ass), that they're conveniently negating the previous 8 months that occurred. That's not fair. He's our first All-Star since Dwight. He's paramount to our success offensively. There is no offensive data point that can question that. Without Vooch (or without Vooch playing well) our offense goes to complete ****. Vooch is our best player. And instead of looking to improve in other areas of the roster, people are so focused on Vooch having a bad series that they're blinded from seeing how great he is.

MO BAMBA IS NOT READY FOR AN INCREASED ROLE. He's not even better than Khem Birch at the moment. We can't do this Oladipo, Elfrid **** again where we're handing big minutes to guys that didn't earn it. Isaac earned his minutes, he's all the better for it. Bamba won't be ready to even be considered a starter for 2 more years.

As much as the team doesn't want to sacrifice its future, they're not going to just let Nik walk if the terms of the deal are acceptable to them. Vooch likes it here. A lot. He's not going to give a hometown discount, nor should he. This is his prime contract opportunity. The Magic like Nik. A lot. Clifford handed Vooch the keys to the offense and we overall thrived.

I think we all agree Nik shouldn't be the #1 option of an offense, but until someone either gets acquired or someone develops into that role, Nik's the best option.

I have zero issues giving Nik 4 years. Nik doesn't rely on athleticism the way guys like T-Ross do. Nik can still improve without his athleticism improving. He's our best scorer still, he's our best passer, and his defense improved a ton this season. From there, it's all about what Dallas, Sacramento, and the LA teams - if they strike out on 'top' FA targets - are looking to offer money wise. If it's 4 years for $100 mil, I don't think WeHam do that. Can they do less than that? Probably. This is where creativity with incentives helps you out if you know what you're doing and both sides of the table are civil about negotiations (which I expect). Nik's UFA, so this is where communication is important

[Def Swami]

I share the same sentiment with Adam. I don't want to hamper the team's flexibility by giving a max deal to Vucevic, nor does it sound like the front office have any plans to do so. There's a sweet spot that I think both sides can come to, IF Vucevic wants to stay.

The Magic should be looking to use their other assets to add more offensive versatility to their team. It may not happen right away or going into next season, but they should hoard assets and look to add via draft and trades. Especially without Vucevic, we're not going to make any significant moves in free agency.

[MagicMatic]

As much as the team doesn't want to sacrifice its future, they're not going to just let Nik walk if the terms of the deal are acceptable to them. Vooch likes it here. A lot. He's not going to give a hometown discount, nor should he. This is his prime contract opportunity.

I think we all agree Nik shouldn't be the #1 option of an offense, but until someone either gets acquired or someone develops into that role, Nik's the best option.

I have zero issues giving Nik 4 years.

Ok. So how does this all happen simultaneously then?

You think he deserves his prime contract, you believe the team doesn’t want to sacrifice its future, you have zero issues with giving him 4 years and that he shouldn’t settle for less, and you don’t think he should be the #1 option.

Those are all contradictory points. You either believe Orlando will acquire a #1 option (somehow) or that one of Isaac, AG, or Fultz will hit some miraculous level and become that go-to guy. Both of those options are possible, but extremely unlikely.

[MoMM]

As much as the team doesn't want to sacrifice its future, they're not going to just let Nik walk if the terms of the deal are acceptable to them. Vooch likes it here. A lot. He's not going to give a hometown discount, nor should he. This is his prime contract opportunity.

I think we all agree Nik shouldn't be the #1 option of an offense, but until someone either gets acquired or someone develops into that role, Nik's the best option.

I have zero issues giving Nik 4 years.

Ok. So how does this all happen simultaneously then?

You think he deserves his prime contract, you believe the team doesn’t want to sacrifice its future, you have zero issues with giving him 4 years and that he shouldn’t settle for less, and you don’t think he should be the #1 option.

Those are all contradictory points. You either believe Orlando will acquire a #1 option (somehow) or that one of Isaac, AG, or Fultz will hit some miraculous level and become that go-to guy. Both of those options are possible, but extremely unlikely.

We could trade AG for another star, for example, McCollum or Beal. They are not super #1 options, but we could have 1A and 1B this way.

[fendilim]

WeHam have said that they don't want to pay more than other franchises. So then you have to try and gauge what the market rate will be for Vuc. What other teams have cap space, and how much they'll be prepared to offer.

Kings seem the most likely to make a big offer. They'll have enough to offer Vuc $25M+, they have their backcourt, wings and PF in place. Vlade is a big fan of Vuc. I'm not sure how Walton would utilise Vuc, but it still seems like he's the final piece to tip that franchise back into a playoff appearance.

The Clippers might make him an offer, once they sign Kawhi, if they strike out on other options (Jimmy or a trade for AD are what I see as their follow up moves).

The Hawks might make him an offer as a veteran presence to add to Trey + Collins + their pick this year. Doubt it, but maybe. $25M+ isn't much when all you have is rookie scale contracts for the next 3-4 years.

Mavs seem to prioritise Kemba, but I feel like he will end up in LA with LeBron. So Vuc might become their backup option. $25M feels like too hefty a price for them.

So market rate, IMO, will be $20-25M. However, I don't think we'll be offering any more than $20M per season. Maaaaybe we offer to overpay for a short-term 2 year deal, but I doubt Vuc takes that. He seems like a man who will want stability over top dollar. And ultimately, with his replacement being groomed on the bench behind him, he might not find we offer the most stable future for him.

I see the Divac connection with Vuc. But i have my doubts. Kings have Giles and Bagley. Not to mention, they play a really really fast pace. They also could have drafted Doncic, but they seem to not care about talent, but rather they are going out of their way into drafting players that fit the way they want to play.

The Peja connection with Hezonja was also there last year, but no offer was reported or anything.

Obviously dont have a crystal ball, but i dont think they’ll be willing to tie up 25m plus on Vuc when their core is still young.

[zaymon]

WeHam have said that they don't want to pay more than other franchises. So then you have to try and gauge what the market rate will be for Vuc. What other teams have cap space, and how much they'll be prepared to offer.

Kings seem the most likely to make a big offer. They'll have enough to offer Vuc $25M+, they have their backcourt, wings and PF in place. Vlade is a big fan of Vuc. I'm not sure how Walton would utilise Vuc, but it still seems like he's the final piece to tip that franchise back into a playoff appearance.

The Clippers might make him an offer, once they sign Kawhi, if they strike out on other options (Jimmy or a trade for AD are what I see as their follow up moves).

The Hawks might make him an offer as a veteran presence to add to Trey + Collins + their pick this year. Doubt it, but maybe. $25M+ isn't much when all you have is rookie scale contracts for the next 3-4 years.

Mavs seem to prioritise Kemba, but I feel like he will end up in LA with LeBron. So Vuc might become their backup option. $25M feels like too hefty a price for them.

So market rate, IMO, will be $20-25M. However, I don't think we'll be offering any more than $20M per season. Maaaaybe we offer to overpay for a short-term 2 year deal, but I doubt Vuc takes that. He seems like a man who will want stability over top dollar. And ultimately, with his replacement being groomed on the bench behind him, he might not find we offer the most stable future for him.

I see the Divac connection with Vuc. But i have my doubts. Kings have Giles and Bagley. Not to mention, they play a really really fast pace. They also could have drafted Doncic, but they seem to not care about talent, but rather they are going out of their way into drafting players that fit the way they want to play.

The Peja connection with Hezonja was also there last year, but no offer was reported or anything.

Obviously dont have a crystal ball, but i dont think they’ll be willing to tie up 25m plus on Vuc when their core is still young.

I am quite certain Vuc will avoid disfunctional organizations like we were before Weltman. Maybe max could do it but even then i really doubt it.

[YDNA]

vuc got shut down by gasol, but look at what gasol is doing to embiid also. vuc isn't a bad player, it's just the raptors in general figured out a way to stop him, and a big factor is because the rest of our players played like complete ass, so the double teams kept coming

[BadMofoPimp]

vuc got shut down by gasol, but look at what gasol is doing to embiid also. vuc isn't a bad player, it's just the raptors in general figured out a way to stop him, and a big factor is because the rest of our players played like complete ass, so the double teams kept coming

With the playoff experience those vets have on that team, Magic never really had a chance nor Vooch.

[Skybox]

vuc got shut down by gasol, but look at what gasol is doing to embiid also. vuc isn't a bad player, it's just the raptors in general figured out a way to stop him, and a big factor is because the rest of our players played like complete ass, so the double teams kept coming

With the playoff experience those vets have on that team, Magic never really had a chance nor Vooch.

For all of the love of the "modern center"...it took an old-timey Behemoth like Gasol to slow Vuc (and good doubling). Not many worse matches in the whole NBA for Magic's offense than TOR. They were masterful in the playoffs. Vuc has schooled every other center in the league this season, including young monsters like Embiid. What's the plan with Bamba? He may never carry enough weight and strength to be like Gobert and will likely not ever develop a post game without the strong foundation...I'm rooting for him but him vs Vuc is a joke and I'm not sure it's just "for now". Bamba looks, to me, like a super developed Bo Outlaw...great weak-side rim protection and defensive help but he's not ever going to be Embiid. Nothing wrong, IMO, with Cliff running inside-out offense with one of the best in the NBA at it...add a 20ppg wing (Fultz?)or two (McCollum, Beal?) and you're on to something big. People write off centers as insignificant...I don't get that - look around the league. Not every good team is modeling the Warriors.

[pepe1991]

So nobody wanna talk about Embiid and 5-18 FG and M. Gasol having +/- of +29

#CalledIt

[yoyojw17]

Vuc is a good regular season player but he folds when it gets physical. He got out muscled and taken out of the game in the playoffs. Time to move on.

https://sports.yahoo.com/marc-gasol-is-giving-joel-embiid-the-nik-vucevic-treatment-192805157.html

I know right .... if Embiid doesn't rebound real quick the 6ers should do the same.

You make it seem like marc gasol is a push over... lol. And it's not only marc Gasol that is the problem.... it's the swarm of hands that fly into your space when you couldn't move Gasol on the entrance pass.

1 full season outways 1 playoff series against probably the leagues best defense at this point

[Bergmaniac]

Judging players' value on the basis of one playoff series has always been dumb. That's how we ended up wasting 70 mln. on Biyombo.

[pepe1991]

Judging players' value on the basis of one playoff series has always been dumb. That's how we ended up wasting 70 mln. on Biyombo.

Nailed it.
Biyombo wasn't even good whole series, but for like 2 games.. Got contract because he outplayed Tristan Thompson (another terrible contract made by Lebron James and his fake player's agency) and Frye, who might be softest big in history

[OrlChamps2030]

I know Vucevic had a terrible playoff showing but he really made the team work this year on offense. I think its likely the front office will try to bring back Vucevic + Ross on market value deals and hope they sustain production while the young guys provide internal improvement and Fultz giving positive rotation minutes at PG from day 1.

I could maybe seeing AG or Bamba/Fournier getting traded for an offensive upgrade at PG/wing like McCollum or Holiday.

I don’t love the plan but it will be a competitive team. I don’t see this front office (or ownership) wanting to take a step back and doing something like renouncing Vuc/Ross.

[BCS]

We will never be anything special with Vuc being the focal point of our offense and my fear is Cliff will come into next season running the offense completely through Vuc like he did this season. If Cliff can come in with the mentality of sharing the offensive load and not be dependent on one player who doesn't show up when it counts then we should be good.

I don't mind bringing Vuc back at the right price only because we all know Bamba is not ready and at the end of the day he is an asset and that equals value in the future. But I also don't want to spend a big chunk of our cap on the C position.

Bro did you watch the series? it was bad matchup but what would the narrative be if we played the sixers? Vuc always plays well against them and if he did would the sentiment be the same? Guess we'll never know but there was a reason we played through Vuc and it's simple he was the best player all year long. Points, Rebounds, Assists, Defense all there through vuc i mean the only other reliable player was T-ross and even he has off nights but Vuc didn't have very many....he was the constant, he was the reliable all year long...shutting up pretty much everybody and he comes into his first post-season and didn't play well against a guy who had his number in the past and now it's "he didn't show up" i mean if you didn't say anything all year why start talking now?

It's like this man, cliff did what he did because vuc was the best player with the most reliable skills....i don't see how that's an indictment on Vuc.....it's the other players that got to step their game the F*** up so we don't have to play through him all the time and have a more balanced attack. With what he had at the time it was the best strategy, anyone can see that...also Cliff isn't known for the most creative offense, he's more meat and potatoes....plain and simple but effective.

I don't see the debate, you mainly agree with what I said. Vuc should not be the focal point of our offense. Yes other players need to step up and plays have to be made to facilitate that. Like you said it is probably not Vuc nor Cliffs fault.....we just don't have a true pg which forces us to rely on Vuc more than we should.

Having said that, I am assuming the debate has to do with Vuc "not showing up when it counts". I know Gasol is not an easy matchup but Vuc struggles went beyond that. He had plenty of good open looks which he has no problem converting when there is nothing on the line. If we had played another team could he have played better? Maybe, but we can't really know that. But I didn't comment that just because of his playoff performance, he has struggled in key situations and key games throughout his 7 years with us, it is nothing new.

Either way, I never said I don't want him back, on the contrary, I want him back at the right price and hopeful the team understands that he should not be the focal point on offense. This fear comes from many years of bad Magic coaches forcing buddy ball on us and not adapting. Lol

[JazzUte88]

I don't want this guy anywhere near the Jazz or Lakers. Very unimpressed with his playoff performance.