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Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's)

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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#201 » by dsg2021 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:17 am

Post-Game 2 Notes:
Spoiler:
- ORL gave up some quick and open 3 pt opportunities, losing a little airspace that was gone a second later. It was the great equalizer in gm1 and gm2 qt1. It was compounded by the ORL shooter then dribbling back into TOR's team defense that was rubber-banding to their side in the first place! (Related to AG’s complaint?)
- Vooch needs side PnRs, closer to the baseline. Something that gets him into deep positioning near the baseline. He posts very well from a baseline opportunity. And he knows how to pass out from it too. Today, he did poor passes going back out to the point, simply letting TOR reset their staunch defense. And I think some of that was not getting the ball where he was used to, deeper and closer to the baseline.
- The doubles bother Vooch, understandably, but he is imo not passing out of them nearly early enough or smartly enough (to the best person/spot). If he doesn’t feel a scoring opportunity too well, he needs to stop holding or dribbling 1-2 times and immediately keep the ball moving. He's not breaking any defenses down where he's getting his catches 90% of the time in this series (and where he can dribble has to be in his favorite post-up and attacking spots instead). Instead, pass it across extremely early, like sometimes to the point of a touch pass. TOR has really committed to doubling him bc they know it has actually been resetting their defense very often in gms 1-2. I think getting it on the side, closer to baseline, and as deep as possible is where he can look to score more, while reading for good passes. And I think a play of Vooch getting it on the elbow without a PnR yet is where he can look to initiate and pass more, because 1) Gasol has poor foot speed and Ibaka poor post-defense AND TOR loves to double Vooch, so 2) a suck-in of defense at the elbow can really let Vooch read the floor and have enough space for a pass to any player. Vooch would also have the airspace for his long 2's and 3's.
- Need to look at some actions where the option/play is a cutter or an option to get it to Vooch ONCE he’s gotten deep positioning. There has to be a creative way to get Vooch into deep post positioning, like a screen for Vooch, or faking a space out to 3 movement.
- I think Marc Gasol was the reason ORL lost moreso than anyone else, actually. He’s kept Vooch out of deep post, kept Vooch out of all his favorite and familiar spots on the floor, and shut down Vooch handily. He has now adjusted to stepping out on switches which is absolutely devastating ORL’s entire offense, and has literally picked passes up as big steals and transition offense for TOR which TOR breathes off of. They traded a better reg season player in JV for a better post-season one in Gasol.
- ORL as a whole, was making poorer passes than it should have been, missing more FTs than it should have been, and was often caught moving its players back into TOR’s defense. So on top of missing some just barely open-enough 3pt opportunities, they would dribble the ball right back into the brunt of TOR’s defense.
- ORL got a good number of FTA’s and drives, but I still think they missed a window for driving to finish. TOR’s defense was not set well for drivers and cutters (outside of blockers), they want to step out on switches, focus their perimeter defense to smother ORL’s initiation of plays. Tall task (because they have blockers), but maybe somewhere else ORL can ignite offense and break through. This may also come to attacking and initiating WITHOUT PnRs. Who said you have to live through them? Because when every PnR is putting two TOR defenders on the ORL ball handler, then why not just initiate 1 on 1!! Maybe the PnR action is more effective inside the possession and outside of being the very first play in the possession!
- I don’t want a fast pace/offense at all, it gives TOR energy, but they need to be smarter on offense. The players would rather be in their designated spots than make the easiest cuts that gives ORL points and throws TOR team defense off kilter. There needs to be some creativity here to beat a clearly more talented team, and you may have to make a pass to a cutter or downscreen/pin-off screen just to start opening up their defense a bit. The PnR could also be a Pick and pop for Vooch to get shots and actions going. It would be easier for a handler to pass out of a blitzed 2-man PnR show with a Vooch stepping to the side than making some half-hearted roll that is impossible to pass to from two TOR defenders on top.
- ORL came out of TOR with what they wanted, a 1-1 tie, and big adjustments by TOR that ORL can pore over and re-adjust back. Hopefully we will throw the next punch. Obviously rebounding and defense needs to get back to gm 1 and gm 2 1st half levels though.
- All the hate on AG’s game as a top 1-2 option, and now you see why we need to bear patience as he grows this part of his game. He was the only offensive provider outside of T Ross tonight.
- No doubt I’ve tried to get ppl to be more appreciative of Fournier’s clever offense and that it helped ORL get here, as he had a strong 2nd half of season to coincide with ORL’s post-season surge, but it’s very obviously clear that he and D.J. are where this team needs upgrades more than anywhere else. Vooch is blowing it this postseason, but at least he can say he was a signpost for double teams, and still has an all-ranges offense. And again, it's not fair to D.J. and Fournier to have to PnR into TWO TOR defenders every single time. They really may need to attack 1 on 1, because it's sounding (counterintuitively) like their best option to start breaking down the defense.
- The TOR adjustment to ORL PnRs is devastating. Both defenders will try their best to show and lock down the handler initiating the PnR, and TOR is doing it literally from the half court line, down to right near the basket. ORL might actually have to look at weaning off the number of PnRs they run, if it is just going to bring two defenders to the handler. Say, Fournier or DJ, will have a better time trying to do something rather than nothing with just 1 defender at least. Maybe some off-ball downscreen/pin-off screens, and cutter options.
- Like Frye tweets, ORL definitely needs to look at letting a sharpshooter like Ross initiate more plays too, and getting more time in with more dangerous players like Vooch. I know T Ross has this high-energy of sprinting and good defense, higher shot attempts, that forces/fits him to fewer minutes, but we need our dangerous weapons more often. Or maybe readjust who is the starter still in there with T Ross.
- A summarized, offensive readjustment could be running about 55% less PnRs, converting some of those into side PicknPop’s with two good shooters. Replacing most of those lost PnRs with either a) creatively getting Vooch into spots where he can initiate offense and b) doing more creative offense like 1on 1 drives (usually with pass outs), purposely making plays to cutters, making faster and smarter passes to stretch the D for opportunities, and running off pin-downs.
- I think Nurse made a ton of offensive adjustments too, that might give ORL a lot of defensive work/readjustment too. But then again ORL kept the score like under 10 by half time with literally zero ORL offense, before waving the white flag in the 2nd half. So it might just be 80% a recommitment to the defense, close-outs, and rebounding they are capable of.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#202 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:08 am

Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#203 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:08 am

So far, Ross looks like our best scoring SG. The SL is struggling mighty to get good looks. I think he might need to start in place of Fournier. Ross and Vuc both have powerful gravity that pulls 2 Toronto defenders at a time. That combo should get either one of them open much more often.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#204 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:12 am

pepe1991 wrote:Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).


Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#205 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:14 am

Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).


Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Try to trap him high before P&R ?

You can always put somebody to glue to him ,with or without ball.
He'll always get his, but you can't him shoot 15-22 on 37 points. Guy was 15-22 from the floor.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#206 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:21 am



there are his plays
He got himself going early with some mid range shots.
In 3rd quater Magic didn't play good defense on him, but game was kind a over at that point anyway.

btw i'm glad you are back Ben
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#207 » by npiper17 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:42 am

Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).


Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Whilst I agree in principle, I can see this approach leading to foul trouble for Gordon and Isaac in particular. We’re just not at the point of getting the contender/superstar respect that Kawhi and the Raptors get.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#208 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:38 am

npiper17 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).


Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Whilst I agree in principle, I can see this approach leading to foul trouble for Gordon and Isaac in particular. We’re just not at the point of getting the contender/superstar respect that Kawhi and the Raptors get.


Kawhi is actually a legit great defender who doesn't have to resort to dirty tricks. Siakam too. I don't have issue with them really, just respect for how good they are. Lowry on the other hand, he should have been ejected for how much he was complaining. I want him put on the ground.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#209 » by Instincts » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:49 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gotta contain Leonard.
Right now he gets whatever he wants, 2 game stats:
31 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
63% FG
54% for 3

33 mpg.
I posted earlier this week how he averaged 27,7 ppg on 7 rpg during whole playoffs in 2017, so far he did even better.

Gordon can't be left on island guarding him 1 on 1 ( not just Gordon, nobody can guard top 10 players 1 on 1 ).


Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Try to trap him high before P&R ?

You can always put somebody to glue to him ,with or without ball.
He'll always get his, but you can't him shoot 15-22 on 37 points. Guy was 15-22 from the floor.


Gordon’s d on kawhi was good, BUT he needs to take a cue from the raptors and be much much more physical, bumping, being handsy, and in general making him more uncomfortable. Gordon should not have only one personal foul after game 2, rather see him with 4 or 5 fouls. Get mad AG, we need it.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#210 » by Instincts » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:10 pm

Instincts wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Try to trap him high before P&R ?

You can always put somebody to glue to him ,with or without ball.
He'll always get his, but you can't him shoot 15-22 on 37 points. Guy was 15-22 from the floor.


Gordon’s d on kawhi was good, BUT he needs to take a cue from the raptors a be much much more physical, bumping, being handsy, and in general making him more uncomfortable. Gordon should not have only one personal foul after game 2, rather see him with 4 or 5 fouls. Get mad AG, we need it.


I know it is a tough morning for consolation prizes, but if we take a step back for a view of the big picture, this franchise could not have much better news then seeing AG rise to a playoff level of play. He looks focused, shooting 5/7 from 3, that drive over and finish over ibaka was the best drive of his career, I love how he found space at the top of the circle and elevated, ive been waiting for him to figure that out. Very good to see that mentally the stage is not to big for him in his first two playoff games, if anything he has stepped up for it, we already knew his athletic ability and size would hold up against playoff competition. I am excited to see how AG and the team respond back in amway after taking the raptors best shot. These are the meaningful games that build culture in AG and Isaac, it’s not always supposed to be easy.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#211 » by Instincts » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:11 pm

Instincts wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Kawhi scored on heavily contested shots all night. Gordon was almost always right up on him for the first 3 quarters. There was even several doubles where Vuc was also all up over him. Kawhi was just next level automatic. He was hitting shots with over the top of them, with zero arc on the shot. Really not sure what else can be done as far as legal defense goes.

That said, Toronto were defending dirty all night and were very hands on. I want Orlando to bring that, get right up in their grills, grab em, hold em, do whatever it takes to get under their skin. And complain viciously at the refs on every single call and non-call just like Lowry, the little **** bitch.


Try to trap him high before P&R ?

You can always put somebody to glue to him ,with or without ball.
He'll always get his, but you can't him shoot 15-22 on 37 points. Guy was 15-22 from the floor.


Gordon’s d on kawhi was good, BUT he needs to take a cue from the raptors a be much much more physical, bumping, being handsy, and in general making him more uncomfortable. Gordon should not have only one personal foul after game 2, rather see him with 4 or 5 fouls. Get mad AG, we need it.


I know it is a tough morning for consolation prizes, but if we take a step back for a view of the big picture, this franchise could not have much better news then seeing AG rise to a playoff level of play. He looks focused, shooting 5/7 from 3, that drive over and finish over ibaka was the best drive of his career, I love how he found space at the top of the circle and elevated, ive been waiting for him to figure that out. Very good to see that mentally the stage is not to big for him in his first two playoff games, if anything he has stepped up for it, we already knew his athletic ability and size would hold up against playoff competition. I am excited to see how AG and the team respond back in amway after taking the raptors best shot. These are the meaningful games that build culture in AG and Isaac, it’s not always supposed to be easy.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#212 » by MagicFrenchie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:34 pm

I don't know why but since the beginning of this season Gordon body language and even his interviews have changed.
He looks very calm, quiet and focus.
He doesn't talk or argue very much on the court with the refs or even with teammates.
Might be those yoga sessions he's doing pregame. And might explain why he isn't afraid coming playoff time.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#213 » by dsg2021 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:42 pm

MagicFrenchie wrote:I don't know why but since the beginning of this season Gordon body language and even his interviews have changed.
He looks very calm, quiet and focus.
He doesn't talk or argue very much on the court with the refs or even with teammates.
Might be those yoga sessions he's doing pregame. And might explain why he isn't afraid coming playoff time.


AG needs to get his teammates into those yoga sessions asap :lol:
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#214 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:04 pm

My biggest concern is that I don't see any cupping marks on our players.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#215 » by j-ragg » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:17 pm

I thought when Gordon played Kawhi straight up, he did okay. Kawhi hit some tough shots with a hand up, that’s why he’s gonna get a 200 million dollar deal.

When they ran Kawhi off of screens or had Gasol set a pick was when we had issues. Kawhi goes so quick that we didn’t know whether to switch or hedge a lot of times and he just went by Gordon and Vuc to the bucket.

I think we should switch up AG and Isaac’s matchup from time to time. Give em different looks. Isaac is better chasing people off ball and has a better contest on some of those jumpers. AG plays Siakam well too.

I think what we need most is DJ to be more aggressive. He’s a great shooter... if he is handling the ball trying to get in the lane and create for us good stuff happens.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#216 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:23 pm

j-ragg wrote:I thought when Gordon played Kawhi straight up, he did okay. Kawhi hit some tough shots with a hand up, that’s why he’s gonna get a 200 million dollar deal.

When they ran Kawhi off of screens or had Gasol set a pick was when we had issues. Kawhi goes so quick that we didn’t know whether to switch or hedge a lot of times and he just went by Gordon and Vuc to the bucket.

I think we should switch up AG and Isaac’s matchup from time to time. Give em different looks. Isaac is better chasing people off ball and has a better contest on some of those jumpers. AG plays Siakam well too.

I think what we need most is DJ to be more aggressive. He’s a great shooter... if he is handling the ball trying to get in the lane and create for us good stuff happens.


But we didn't defend Siakam nor Leonard well
Matter of fact they are averaging 51 ppg on 58% FG through 2 games ( combined ofc )
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#217 » by Anti Chalmers » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Kawhi is pretty much unstoppable at this point. Need to somehow get the ball out of his hands
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#218 » by OrlandO » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:34 pm

j-ragg wrote:I thought when Gordon played Kawhi straight up, he did okay. Kawhi hit some tough shots with a hand up, that’s why he’s gonna get a 200 million dollar deal.

When they ran Kawhi off of screens or had Gasol set a pick was when we had issues. Kawhi goes so quick that we didn’t know whether to switch or hedge a lot of times and he just went by Gordon and Vuc to the bucket.

I think we should switch up AG and Isaac’s matchup from time to time. Give em different looks. Isaac is better chasing people off ball and has a better contest on some of those jumpers. AG plays Siakam well too.

I think what we need most is DJ to be more aggressive. He’s a great shooter... if he is handling the ball trying to get in the lane and create for us good stuff happens.

DJ has no space to operate.Same with Vuc. Regular season rotation is not going to work. Ross needs to play 40 minutes. It's fine to play it by ear, but can't just sit back and wait to bring Ross in at the 5 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters if our offense and defense are both getting killed.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#219 » by Instincts » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:46 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I thought when Gordon played Kawhi straight up, he did okay. Kawhi hit some tough shots with a hand up, that’s why he’s gonna get a 200 million dollar deal.

When they ran Kawhi off of screens or had Gasol set a pick was when we had issues. Kawhi goes so quick that we didn’t know whether to switch or hedge a lot of times and he just went by Gordon and Vuc to the bucket.

I think we should switch up AG and Isaac’s matchup from time to time. Give em different looks. Isaac is better chasing people off ball and has a better contest on some of those jumpers. AG plays Siakam well too.

I think what we need most is DJ to be more aggressive. He’s a great shooter... if he is handling the ball trying to get in the lane and create for us good stuff happens.


But we didn't defend Siakam nor Leonard well
Matter of fact they are averaging 51 ppg on 58% FG through 2 games ( combined ofc )


It is a lot to ask of young guys getting their first realization of playoff basketball, but AG and Isaac, really everyone, need to be more physical. Bump, hands, hard fouls. They have to take Torontos cue and amp up the physicality, especially the way the game is being called. AG should stay on Kwahi, the change should be physicality and possibly the occasional hard trap from Isaac. No reason AG should have 1 personal foul to end the game, Isaac with 2, Torontos starters have 3 and 4 a piece and put the onus on the refs to make the calls.
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Re: Everything Orlando vs Toronto (minus GT's) 

Post#220 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:51 pm

I'm not blaming individual defense of 2,3 players on Siakam and Leonard, I always say that 1 on 1 defense as skill is outdated and overrated skill in general, all i'm saying is that TEAM has to slow them down better.

As far as Ross goes, i agree with OrlandO, Magic are in desperate need for shooting, Ross has to be 30-34 mpg out there because they are focusing whole defense on Vučević and Evan and especially Isaac simply miss lot of shots right now. They are 5-22 for 3, Isaac 1-10. To make things even worst Isaac has 4 FTA, Evan 0. Simply not getting job done on offense.
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