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Mo Bamba's future with Orlando?

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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#161 » by pepe1991 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:29 am

Skin wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

Mo also shot 68% FTs at college and only made 14 threes (on 51 attemp).

But this is not about Bamba, it's about philosophy and new thrends in general.

Success or failure of a team that has shooting C molds perception of value of that player.

Over years guys like Bargnani , Frye, Speights,Maker, Spance Hawes shot 3s , but when you think about them you think about fools and scrubs ,right?
So what's different between them and Lopez and Horford but perception of success of their teams?
Lopez had virtually zero value for anybody last summer. Anybody but Bucks who needed specific, 3 point shooting C to lure last man out to give Giannis and other shooters space. I'm pretty sure most of the league would not enjoy 4 rpg , 7 three point attemps C who brings almost nothing else to the table but high volumen chucking at this point. Yet it works for them. We know for fact on Nets it did not work ( 20 wins ) and on Lakers it did not work ( limited to 23 mpg ).

Horford's biggest value as a player is passing , not shooting. He just developed his shot to be triple treat in pick&roll/pop. But he lacks any volumen. Despite shooting 37% for 3 for career do you know how many threes he was wide open ? 65 out of 73 he made . Despite him being always wide open , unlike guards, he still only shoots 36% on wide open jumpers ( where elite shooters knock them down at 43-48% rate ) .

And they are only 2 Cs that shoot at respectful level to even talk about.
Davis 31% for 3 for career, why even try if you can dominate from virtually any other range ?
Embiid 31% for 3 for career, same as Davis.

IMO them shooting 3s comes down to fact that it's just "modern" and without any other logical explanation why they do it. it's clear that they are not good at it ,it's clear that nobody guards them when they do and therfore it means nothing to their offense ( actually it hurts their offense as they shoot bad shots that they can't hit at respectful rate ) . So why do it aside from fact it's cool?

This 3 point frenzy with big men is same level of hype without substance like notion that you need rim protection to win title 5 years ago so every scrub who could block shot got $17M a year , 4 years deal. Or 10 years ago when teams were offering max contracts to 48% TS " iso scorers" like Marbury and Francis because "that's what Lakers have in Kobe".
Every few years you have new crappy narrative and sheep follow .

In context for Bamba, as i said, this summer he should only squat, deadlift, work on post moves, work on finishing around rim with both hands and being able to post up much smaller players. Make FTs. Once he can do it at high level,his game will be next level.


The league has evolved to threes and layups because those are the most efficient shots. Larry Bird is considered one of the best shooters in NBA history and played the entirety of his career in the 3-point era, yet Jonathan Isaac has a made more 3-point shots per game on average over his career thus far than did Bird. The game has changed.

29% of Bamba's shots were 3-point attempts. 35% of his shots were at the rim and he converted on 79% of those shots. 29% of his made field goals were dunks. It's a fallacy to assert that he spent all of his time on the perimeter.

Every center in the NBA spends time at the perimeter on the offensive end. They are often used as initiators from the top of the key before they move to set a screen or simply to space the floor when there is pick-and-roll action that they are not involved in. You can not run a pick-and-roll while someone is trying to establish themselves in the post. That just brings the help defender to the basket.

Modern offenses are about movement and spacing. When one player vacates an area to run off of a screen, someone else shifts to fill the vacated space. The goal is the create switches, gaps, and confusion in the defense that forces defenders to scramble. Forcing the ball into the post stops all of this. It's time consuming. It's just much easier to initiate the offense with a pick-and-roll. This is why conventional centers are a dying breed. There is no rational reason not to develop Bamba's shooting.

Quick quiz: Which current Orlando Magic center had a .455 eFG%, .462 TS%, and a .529 FT% in his rookie season?

Maybe it's way too early to make declarations about what Bamba can and can't do?

Image


First of all, i said that to me it's more philosophical debate with tie-ins with Bamba and how Magic should approach his development.

29% of Bamba's shots were 3-point attempts. 35% of his shots were at the rim and he converted on 79% of those shots. 29% of his made field goals were dunks. It's a fallacy to assert that he spent all of his time on the perimeter.

And yet ,
If you read rest of my posts about this topic i would saw i said i don't have problem with C shooting some threes, but not 29% of all shots should be 3 pointers if he has shown zero ability to shoot from any range.
68% FT shooter at college, below 60% FT shooter in nba, below 32% mid range shooter everywhere should not shoot attemp many threes because it's clear he can't shoot in general.
Or at least, as i already posted ( and repeated) shooting should not be his main focus at this moment.

Modern offenses are about movement and spacing. When one player vacates an area to run off of a screen, someone else shifts to fill the vacated space. The goal is the create switches, gaps, and confusion in the defense that forces defenders to scramble.

Yet Bamba did not do any of that. Bigs stayed home when he was away from rim . In 55 out of his 70 three point attemps, closest defender was at least 6 feet away from him. In other 9 attemps closest defender was at between 4 and 6 feet away from him.
Yet he only shot 30% when he was left wide open. So he did not create space , made defense honest or confused and it's best shown in his offensive rating where he had the worst offensive rating on whole roster, including Melvin Frazier, Jerian Grant and Jonathan Simmons.

Every center in the NBA spends time at the perimeter on the offensive end. They are often used as initiators from the top of the key before they move to set a screen or simply to space the floor when there is pick-and-roll action that they are not involved in. You can not run a pick-and-roll while someone is trying to establish themselves in the post. That just brings the help defender to the basket.

I don't know why this has anything to do with anything i posted. I said his main focus should be pick&roll action and even brought up data of his screen and rolls to point he is already good at it when given chance.

here is no rational reason not to develop Bamba's shooting


There is no rational reason why terrible shooter should not shoot? Yea why not give MCW all that 3 pointers, because there is no rational reason why guard should not knock them down ,right?
Mo would literally have 7% better FT ,4% better eFG and 2,5% better TS if he did not attemp any 3 . Yet because it "creates space" ( does not, nobody guards him ) he shoots them and that drags down his efficiency and overall , lookint at offensive rating it does not help a team. Maybe if you want a shooter, you should draft, sign or trade for shooter instad of drafting 7 footers and forcing things on them that they are not good at, than acting suprised how bad or raw they are?
Players have at most 4 months of free time to work on their problematic areas, wasting time to become 33 instad of 30% shooter, yet being pretty much usless in any other area of a game is wasting your time. What are you developing him into ? Frye? Not to mention that there is no proof that he can actually become 33-35% shooter any time soon.

Quick quiz: Which current Orlando Magic center had a .455 eFG%, .462 TS%, and a .529 FT% in his rookie season?

More biased, unrelated hate ? How some posters have fallen ....

And since you went there , trivia question how many rookie Cs had net rating worst than -12 in last 7 years? And how many of them panned out into starters
Spoiler:
Resulst: Qui Zhoui, Ike Anigbogu, Stephen Zimmerman, Jahil Okafor, Ognjen Kuzmić, Mike Muscala, Luke Zeller, Jarvis Varando, Robert Sacre AND... Mohamed Bamba.
Non.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#162 » by zaymon » Thu May 16, 2019 9:41 am

Mo Bamba shot 1,5 three pointer a game, you think it makes significant impact ? You act pepe like he was some volume shooter taking touches from Ross who attempts 7 a game. Bamba was raw offensively, Clifford forced his minutes on the floor becouse he was clearly not ready. We wanted to win, Bamba was asked to stand in the corner and just dont disturb others who knew what to do. He didnt even know where to stand most of the time and you want him to create our offense.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#163 » by pepe1991 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:00 am

zaymon wrote:Mo Bamba shot 1,5 three pointer a game, you think it makes significant impact ? You act pepe like he was some volume shooter taking touches from Ross who attempts 7 a game. Bamba was raw offensively, Clifford forced his minutes on the floor becouse he was clearly not ready. We wanted to win, Bamba was asked to stand in the corner and just dont disturb others who knew what to do. He didnt even know where to stand most of the time and you want him to create our offense.


My point all along is that shooting should not be his main focus in offseason. This debate went in all other directions but orginal one.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#164 » by zaymon » Thu May 16, 2019 2:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:Mo Bamba shot 1,5 three pointer a game, you think it makes significant impact ? You act pepe like he was some volume shooter taking touches from Ross who attempts 7 a game. Bamba was raw offensively, Clifford forced his minutes on the floor becouse he was clearly not ready. We wanted to win, Bamba was asked to stand in the corner and just dont disturb others who knew what to do. He didnt even know where to stand most of the time and you want him to create our offense.


My point all along is that shooting should not be his main focus in offseason. This debate went in all other directions but orginal one.

Well offseason is another topic. His body training is priority, that we all know, but its other departaments not coaching job to get him there. On offense his role will be rebounding, shooting threes, catching lobs. He is not efficient with setting screens or taking position under basket. What exactly you want him to learn first on offense before his body is developed? I dont see many things he can do right now to help our team on offense. Its not only his problem, even older centers are at the crossroads
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#165 » by p0peye » Thu May 16, 2019 8:09 pm

I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#166 » by Skin » Thu May 16, 2019 8:38 pm

p0peye wrote:I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.

Especially if they determine that they don't want Vuc back.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#167 » by Skin » Thu May 16, 2019 8:47 pm

p0peye wrote:I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.

Especially if they determine that they don't want Vuc back.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#168 » by p0peye » Thu May 16, 2019 8:55 pm

Skin wrote:
p0peye wrote:I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.

Especially if they determine that they don't want Vuc back.


Not necessarily, resigning Vučević would be about competing now, drafting Bol Bol would be about future (same as it was last year with Bamba).

IMO, resigning Vučević will be purely financially prudent decision and most likely we will lose him. It upset me around trade deadline that we didn't try to get an asset in return, but taking part in playoffs was rather enjoyable experience which was almost forgotten all these years we've spent in lottery hell, so I got over it and I'm fine now however it ends.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#169 » by MasterGMer » Thu May 16, 2019 9:00 pm

I do not think our FO is going to trade Bamba. They have said it over and over again that he has his own timeline and they are not rushing it.

Concerning Vuc, I think we need to resign him if we want to be in playoff next year. His shooting, spacing , rebounding and inside presence are all keys to us to be competitive
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#170 » by Skin » Thu May 16, 2019 9:04 pm

p0peye wrote:
Skin wrote:
p0peye wrote:I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.

Especially if they determine that they don't want Vuc back.


Not necessarily, resigning Vučević would be about competing now, drafting Bol Bol would be about future (same as it was last year with Bamba).

IMO, resigning Vučević will be purely financially prudent decision and most likely we will lose him. It upset me around trade deadline that we didn't try to get an asset in return, but taking part in playoffs was rather enjoyable experience which was almost forgotten all these years we've spent in lottery hell, so I got over it and I'm fine now however it ends.

I was pissed at the deadline too, but I agree the win at Toronto was actually pretty fun to watch. I got enjoyment outta that one. lol

The draft happens before FA. If they drafted Bol, I'm pretty sure the writing will be on the wall and Vuc will not want to come back seeing what they did in the draft. Media will be all over it too. We'd have to overpay and beat all other offers for him to come back, but would they do that?

Personally, I can only tolerate Vuc on a 2 or 3 year deal. Anything longer is just ... facepalm. More concerned about length of contract than amount giving him.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#171 » by SOUL » Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 am

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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#172 » by Xatticus » Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Spoiler:
Skin wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
The league has evolved to threes and layups because those are the most efficient shots. Larry Bird is considered one of the best shooters in NBA history and played the entirety of his career in the 3-point era, yet Jonathan Isaac has a made more 3-point shots per game on average over his career thus far than did Bird. The game has changed.

29% of Bamba's shots were 3-point attempts. 35% of his shots were at the rim and he converted on 79% of those shots. 29% of his made field goals were dunks. It's a fallacy to assert that he spent all of his time on the perimeter.

Every center in the NBA spends time at the perimeter on the offensive end. They are often used as initiators from the top of the key before they move to set a screen or simply to space the floor when there is pick-and-roll action that they are not involved in. You can not run a pick-and-roll while someone is trying to establish themselves in the post. That just brings the help defender to the basket.

Modern offenses are about movement and spacing. When one player vacates an area to run off of a screen, someone else shifts to fill the vacated space. The goal is the create switches, gaps, and confusion in the defense that forces defenders to scramble. Forcing the ball into the post stops all of this. It's time consuming. It's just much easier to initiate the offense with a pick-and-roll. This is why conventional centers are a dying breed. There is no rational reason not to develop Bamba's shooting.

Quick quiz: Which current Orlando Magic center had a .455 eFG%, .462 TS%, and a .529 FT% in his rookie season?

Maybe it's way too early to make declarations about what Bamba can and can't do?

Image


First of all, i said that to me it's more philosophical debate with tie-ins with Bamba and how Magic should approach his development.

29% of Bamba's shots were 3-point attempts. 35% of his shots were at the rim and he converted on 79% of those shots. 29% of his made field goals were dunks. It's a fallacy to assert that he spent all of his time on the perimeter.

And yet ,
If you read rest of my posts about this topic i would saw i said i don't have problem with C shooting some threes, but not 29% of all shots should be 3 pointers if he has shown zero ability to shoot from any range.
68% FT shooter at college, below 60% FT shooter in nba, below 32% mid range shooter everywhere should not shoot attemp many threes because it's clear he can't shoot in general.
Or at least, as i already posted ( and repeated) shooting should not be his main focus at this moment.

Modern offenses are about movement and spacing. When one player vacates an area to run off of a screen, someone else shifts to fill the vacated space. The goal is the create switches, gaps, and confusion in the defense that forces defenders to scramble.

Yet Bamba did not do any of that. Bigs stayed home when he was away from rim . In 55 out of his 70 three point attemps, closest defender was at least 6 feet away from him. In other 9 attemps closest defender was at between 4 and 6 feet away from him.
Yet he only shot 30% when he was left wide open. So he did not create space , made defense honest or confused and it's best shown in his offensive rating where he had the worst offensive rating on whole roster, including Melvin Frazier, Jerian Grant and Jonathan Simmons.

Every center in the NBA spends time at the perimeter on the offensive end. They are often used as initiators from the top of the key before they move to set a screen or simply to space the floor when there is pick-and-roll action that they are not involved in. You can not run a pick-and-roll while someone is trying to establish themselves in the post. That just brings the help defender to the basket.

I don't know why this has anything to do with anything i posted. I said his main focus should be pick&roll action and even brought up data of his screen and rolls to point he is already good at it when given chance.

here is no rational reason not to develop Bamba's shooting


There is no rational reason why terrible shooter should not shoot? Yea why not give MCW all that 3 pointers, because there is no rational reason why guard should not knock them down ,right?
Mo would literally have 7% better FT ,4% better eFG and 2,5% better TS if he did not attemp any 3 . Yet because it "creates space" ( does not, nobody guards him ) he shoots them and that drags down his efficiency and overall , lookint at offensive rating it does not help a team. Maybe if you want a shooter, you should draft, sign or trade for shooter instad of drafting 7 footers and forcing things on them that they are not good at, than acting suprised how bad or raw they are?
Players have at most 4 months of free time to work on their problematic areas, wasting time to become 33 instad of 30% shooter, yet being pretty much usless in any other area of a game is wasting your time. What are you developing him into ? Frye? Not to mention that there is no proof that he can actually become 33-35% shooter any time soon.

Quick quiz: Which current Orlando Magic center had a .455 eFG%, .462 TS%, and a .529 FT% in his rookie season?

More biased, unrelated hate ? How some posters have fallen ....

And since you went there , trivia question how many rookie Cs had net rating worst than -12 in last 7 years? And how many of them panned out into starters
[spoiler]Resulst: Qui Zhoui, Ike Anigbogu, Stephen Zimmerman, Jahil Okafor, Ognjen Kuzmić, Mike Muscala, Luke Zeller, Jarvis Varando, Robert Sacre AND... Mohamed Bamba.
Non.


Offenses space the floor by keeping everyone on the perimeter whether they can shoot or not. Every team does this because a defensive player must be actively defending an offensive player if he is to remain in the paint for more than 3 seconds at a time. This is modern basketball. Robin Lopez doesn't shoot threes, but he spends a lot of time on the perimeter because the vast majority of screening action takes place from the elbow and beyond.

Bamba's screening volume was just fine, but a large share of that was away from the ball to free up shots for Ross. This was the design of the offense.

I don't know why you keep citing the percentages of open shots players are taking to disparage their ability. Yes. A wide open 3-point shot is a good shot for the vast majority of players in the NBA. Most players shoot above the league average in an empty gym, but they need to translate that to live games. Bamba took a total of 70 3-point attempts. Had he made four more of the 3-point shots he took, he would've finished above league average.

Biased and unrelated hate? The implication was quite clear: it is asinine to make broad declarations about players based on their rookie stat lines. Why the hell would I be citing Vucevic's rookie stats to attack the player he is right now?

I come back after taking a couple weeks off from the forum following our elimination from the playoffs to find you have escalated your personal smear campaign against our young players to distract from what went wrong in the playoffs. It's tiresome.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#173 » by drsd » Fri May 17, 2019 6:59 am

p0peye wrote:I wouldn't entirely rule out draft night surprise in form of drafting Bol Bol if management deems him superior, albeit injury-risk, talent to Bamba. After all, Bamba himself didn't exactly prove to be Iron Man his rookie season.

Thus, in such turn of events, Bamba would likely be packaged that same night, cutting his Orlando future short.


If Orlando drafts Bol Bol, I thing the intention would be to create a draft-night trade package.

..
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#174 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:58 am

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Spoiler:
Skin wrote:Image


First of all, i said that to me it's more philosophical debate with tie-ins with Bamba and how Magic should approach his development.

29% of Bamba's shots were 3-point attempts. 35% of his shots were at the rim and he converted on 79% of those shots. 29% of his made field goals were dunks. It's a fallacy to assert that he spent all of his time on the perimeter.

And yet ,
If you read rest of my posts about this topic i would saw i said i don't have problem with C shooting some threes, but not 29% of all shots should be 3 pointers if he has shown zero ability to shoot from any range.
68% FT shooter at college, below 60% FT shooter in nba, below 32% mid range shooter everywhere should not shoot attemp many threes because it's clear he can't shoot in general.
Or at least, as i already posted ( and repeated) shooting should not be his main focus at this moment.

Modern offenses are about movement and spacing. When one player vacates an area to run off of a screen, someone else shifts to fill the vacated space. The goal is the create switches, gaps, and confusion in the defense that forces defenders to scramble.

Yet Bamba did not do any of that. Bigs stayed home when he was away from rim . In 55 out of his 70 three point attemps, closest defender was at least 6 feet away from him. In other 9 attemps closest defender was at between 4 and 6 feet away from him.
Yet he only shot 30% when he was left wide open. So he did not create space , made defense honest or confused and it's best shown in his offensive rating where he had the worst offensive rating on whole roster, including Melvin Frazier, Jerian Grant and Jonathan Simmons.

Every center in the NBA spends time at the perimeter on the offensive end. They are often used as initiators from the top of the key before they move to set a screen or simply to space the floor when there is pick-and-roll action that they are not involved in. You can not run a pick-and-roll while someone is trying to establish themselves in the post. That just brings the help defender to the basket.

I don't know why this has anything to do with anything i posted. I said his main focus should be pick&roll action and even brought up data of his screen and rolls to point he is already good at it when given chance.

here is no rational reason not to develop Bamba's shooting


There is no rational reason why terrible shooter should not shoot? Yea why not give MCW all that 3 pointers, because there is no rational reason why guard should not knock them down ,right?
Mo would literally have 7% better FT ,4% better eFG and 2,5% better TS if he did not attemp any 3 . Yet because it "creates space" ( does not, nobody guards him ) he shoots them and that drags down his efficiency and overall , lookint at offensive rating it does not help a team. Maybe if you want a shooter, you should draft, sign or trade for shooter instad of drafting 7 footers and forcing things on them that they are not good at, than acting suprised how bad or raw they are?
Players have at most 4 months of free time to work on their problematic areas, wasting time to become 33 instad of 30% shooter, yet being pretty much usless in any other area of a game is wasting your time. What are you developing him into ? Frye? Not to mention that there is no proof that he can actually become 33-35% shooter any time soon.

Quick quiz: Which current Orlando Magic center had a .455 eFG%, .462 TS%, and a .529 FT% in his rookie season?

More biased, unrelated hate ? How some posters have fallen ....

And since you went there , trivia question how many rookie Cs had net rating worst than -12 in last 7 years? And how many of them panned out into starters
[spoiler]Resulst: Qui Zhoui, Ike Anigbogu, Stephen Zimmerman, Jahil Okafor, Ognjen Kuzmić, Mike Muscala, Luke Zeller, Jarvis Varando, Robert Sacre AND... Mohamed Bamba.
Non.


Offenses space the floor by keeping everyone on the perimeter whether they can shoot or not. Every team does this because a defensive player must be actively defending an offensive player if he is to remain in the paint for more than 3 seconds at a time. This is modern basketball. Robin Lopez doesn't shoot threes, but he spends a lot of time on the perimeter because the vast majority of screening action takes place from the elbow and beyond.

Bamba's screening volume was just fine, but a large share of that was away from the ball to free up shots for Ross. This was the design of the offense.

I don't know why you keep citing the percentages of open shots players are taking to disparage their ability. Yes. A wide open 3-point shot is a good shot for the vast majority of players in the NBA. Most players shoot above the league average in an empty gym, but they need to translate that to live games. Bamba took a total of 70 3-point attempts. Had he made four more of the 3-point shots he took, he would've finished above league average.

Biased and unrelated hate? The implication was quite clear: it is asinine to make broad declarations about players based on their rookie stat lines. Why the hell would I be citing Vucevic's rookie stats to attack the player he is right now?

I come back after taking a couple weeks off from the forum following our elimination from the playoffs to find you have escalated your personal smear campaign against our young players to distract from what went wrong in the playoffs. It's tiresome.


Staying on perimeter to set screens and to shoot are two different things.
Bamba stays at perimeter with intention to shoot. Where, in reality, he can't shoot from any range. This isn't even debatable.
below 60% FT shooter ,below 32% mid range shooter, 30% 3 point shooter.

I don't know why you keep citing the percentages of open shots players are taking to disparage their ability. Yes. A wide open 3-point shot is a good shot for the vast majority of players in the NBA. Most players shoot above the league average in an empty gym, but they need to translate that to live games. Bamba took a total of 70 3-point attempts. Had he made four more of the 3-point shots he took, he would've finished above league average.

People who are wide open, yet shoot 30% for 3 are not good at shooting. Therfore there is no reason for them to shoot in general and there are left open because they can't shoot.
70 threes + 51 at college ,121 attemp is respectful amount. 35/121 = 29% isn't respectful result.

Biased and unrelated hate? The implication was quite clear: it is asinine to make broad declarations about players based on their rookie stat lines. Why the hell would I be citing Vucevic's rookie stats to attack the player he is right now?

You use sample size you have. I can't make judgment of player based on something draft report said about him year ago or so. If we are going to base opinions based on nothing, Lonzo is Steph Curry with 40 inch vertical.

come back after taking a couple weeks off from the forum following our elimination from the playoffs to find you have escalated your personal smear campaign against our young players to distract from what went wrong in the playoffs

Everything you don't agree with , you view as hate. I said he should focus on developing OTHER ASPECTS OF HIS GAME rather than focusing on shooting, because using college + nba season ( granted, rookie one ) he is terrible shooter from all across the board and it will be waste of a summer if he keeps working on things that are not pivotal for development of a center, because there are Gobert's , Adam's of the world who don't shoot 3s, and guys like Embiid, Gasol, Vuc and many others added 3 ponit shots AFTER they developed more important basketball skills to their game.

If you wanted shooting big ,than you should draft one instad of drafting Bamba.
if you wanted shooting PF you should draft one instad of drafting Isaac.

It's just drafting players that don't fit skill you want, just to force them into doing things they are not good at. Terrible idea that will backfire in both long and short terms.

Why you dodged fact that 6'11 Isaac shot 44% of all shots from 3 point line, when he still was 7th worst shooter among 109 who attemped that many 3s? Didn't fit your claims ? :wink:
But again, this is not about XY player, it's about , to me at least, failed strategy of drafting for years. With Hennigan and now with Weltman and Hammond. You want to develop players in best versions of themselfs, instad Magic for years draft players that don't fit need, don't fit what they want from them, than act cofused when that players are terrible at things that they were terrible to being with. What a mindblowing concept, bad shooter needing to expend range and speed of shot still is bad at shooting in 99% of cases going from college to nba . :no:

This " but it's modern nba, you don't get it pepe" is laughable thing to tell me, who wanted Payton gone because of his shooting back of 2016 and i was one harping on Gordon- Muray swap in 2017 for same reasons. I understand what modern basketball is about, but you are not fixing issue with bad shooters by having them shoot more. Not to mention that there is zero indications that over time players will show massive improvments as shooters. If any improvments. If that is a case, after 10 years everybody would be Steph Curry. But as everything else, shooting improvments hits plato.
But this forum ,as usual overrates development and views it as miracle work.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#175 » by zaymon » Fri May 17, 2019 10:22 am

To win a title you need some miracle work. Our team concept seems to be no defensive weaknesses to exploit, heavy pick and roll offense with bigs in the corners. You can disagree with that concept but thats where we are going. How many above average 3 point shooters, around 7 feet tall, with some kind of handle and elite coordination/ athletecism you saw in last 5 drafts ?. Weltman said many times they want to win champioship, no shortcuts. Maybe we will succed maybe dont but i think his strategy is viable.
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#176 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:53 am

zaymon wrote:To win a title you need some miracle work. Our team concept seems to be no defensive weaknesses to exploit, heavy pick and roll offense with bigs in the corners. You can disagree with that concept but thats where we are going. How many above average 3 point shooters, around 7 feet tall, with some kind of handle and elite coordination/ athletecism you saw in last 5 drafts ?. Weltman said many times they want to win champioship, no shortcuts. Maybe we will succed maybe dont but i think his strategy is viable.


Well, historically easiest way to win championship is to have superstar ballhandler over 6'6 size.

Last few years in order to win title you need at least two hall of fame level players .Now when i think about it ,last 20 years almost all teams that won title had at least 2 HOF level players. Even Pistons as " underdog" had 3 potential HOF ( Billups 5 times allstar, Sheed 4 times allstar, Ben 4 times DPOY, 4 times allstar ).

So it looks like it's not about playing style as much as it is about having transcending talents.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#177 » by zaymon » Fri May 17, 2019 11:20 am

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:To win a title you need some miracle work. Our team concept seems to be no defensive weaknesses to exploit, heavy pick and roll offense with bigs in the corners. You can disagree with that concept but thats where we are going. How many above average 3 point shooters, around 7 feet tall, with some kind of handle and elite coordination/ athletecism you saw in last 5 drafts ?. Weltman said many times they want to win champioship, no shortcuts. Maybe we will succed maybe dont but i think his strategy is viable.


Well, historically easiest way to win championship is to have superstar ballhandler over 6'6 size.

Last few years in order to win title you need at least two hall of fame level players .Now when i think about it ,last 20 years almost all teams that won title had at least 2 HOF level players. Even Pistons as " underdog" had 3 potential HOF ( Billups 5 times allstar, Sheed 4 times allstar, Ben 4 times DPOY, 4 times allstar ).

So it looks like it's not about playing style as much as it is about having transcending talents.

Ok i agree, but we werent lucky enough to aquire such players, maybe Fultz will become one someday. If we cant aquire hof level players now we must build a good place to bring one when opportunity arises. We cant just sit on our hands. Raptors are build similary and they aquired Kawhi last, there is not one way to win
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#178 » by tiderulz » Fri May 17, 2019 1:30 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:To win a title you need some miracle work. Our team concept seems to be no defensive weaknesses to exploit, heavy pick and roll offense with bigs in the corners. You can disagree with that concept but thats where we are going. How many above average 3 point shooters, around 7 feet tall, with some kind of handle and elite coordination/ athletecism you saw in last 5 drafts ?. Weltman said many times they want to win champioship, no shortcuts. Maybe we will succed maybe dont but i think his strategy is viable.


Well, historically easiest way to win championship is to have superstar ballhandler over 6'6 size.

Last few years in order to win title you need at least two hall of fame level players .Now when i think about it ,last 20 years almost all teams that won title had at least 2 HOF level players. Even Pistons as " underdog" had 3 potential HOF ( Billups 5 times allstar, Sheed 4 times allstar, Ben 4 times DPOY, 4 times allstar ).

So it looks like it's not about playing style as much as it is about having transcending talents.

when Boston won, while they did have 3 future HOF players, they werent playing at HOF levels. Same with Dallas.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#179 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:05 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:To win a title you need some miracle work. Our team concept seems to be no defensive weaknesses to exploit, heavy pick and roll offense with bigs in the corners. You can disagree with that concept but thats where we are going. How many above average 3 point shooters, around 7 feet tall, with some kind of handle and elite coordination/ athletecism you saw in last 5 drafts ?. Weltman said many times they want to win champioship, no shortcuts. Maybe we will succed maybe dont but i think his strategy is viable.


Well, historically easiest way to win championship is to have superstar ballhandler over 6'6 size.

Last few years in order to win title you need at least two hall of fame level players .Now when i think about it ,last 20 years almost all teams that won title had at least 2 HOF level players. Even Pistons as " underdog" had 3 potential HOF ( Billups 5 times allstar, Sheed 4 times allstar, Ben 4 times DPOY, 4 times allstar ).

So it looks like it's not about playing style as much as it is about having transcending talents.

when Boston won, while they did have 3 future HOF players, they werent playing at HOF levels. Same with Dallas.


Pierce 30
KG 31
Allen 32

for comparison current age of superstars:
KD ( 30) , Curry (31), Lebron James (33), Harden (30)

Don't qoute me on that one, but i think all 3 had one of most efficient seasons together, naturally, raw stats went down because of lower usage and shared loud.

Dallas is on point, but Dirk that playoffs played like the best basketball player in the world, and probably was for that postseason.
Got enough help from Kidd ( HOF) , Marion ( probably HOF) .
If Raptors or Bucks win it all, sucess of Kawhi or Giannis will be up there with Dirk in that "solo ride" season. I'm actually rooting for that to happen.
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Re: Mo Bamba's future with Orlando? 

Post#180 » by zaymon » Fri May 17, 2019 5:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Well, historically easiest way to win championship is to have superstar ballhandler over 6'6 size.

Last few years in order to win title you need at least two hall of fame level players .Now when i think about it ,last 20 years almost all teams that won title had at least 2 HOF level players. Even Pistons as " underdog" had 3 potential HOF ( Billups 5 times allstar, Sheed 4 times allstar, Ben 4 times DPOY, 4 times allstar ).

So it looks like it's not about playing style as much as it is about having transcending talents.

when Boston won, while they did have 3 future HOF players, they werent playing at HOF levels. Same with Dallas.


Pierce 30
KG 31
Allen 32

for comparison current age of superstars:
KD ( 30) , Curry (31), Lebron James (33), Harden (30)

Don't qoute me on that one, but i think all 3 had one of most efficient seasons together, naturally, raw stats went down because of lower usage and shared loud.

Dallas is on point, but Dirk that playoffs played like the best basketball player in the world, and probably was for that postseason.
Got enough help from Kidd ( HOF) , Marion ( probably HOF) .
If Raptors or Bucks win it all, sucess of Kawhi or Giannis will be up there with Dirk in that "solo ride" season. I'm actually rooting for that to happen.

From obvious reasons we are in Raptors, Bucks school of team building. Raptors were " ready" for a superstar, and i think we will be too in a couple of years. If Fultz is next Harden great, if Isaac and Bamba can duplicate a little what Giannis does great. If not we better get someone like Kawhi, but its happening much more often nowadays.
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)

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