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Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out

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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#21 » by BadMofoPimp » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:24 pm

I, for one, thought the Magic battled hard last night and I am proud of their effort, especially on Defense. The Raptors just have one of the best defenses in the entire NBA. Hard to crack that. Still had a chance to beat them.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#22 » by Skin » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:27 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
Skin wrote:We are what we are. Nobody thinks we're winning this series. But if people want more of the same the next 4 years then let's sign Vuc to the max and make sure Ross doesn't leave town. That's worth around $40-45M. Sounds like good spending to me! Lol


So you are saying let’s screw this and re-tool and tank again?

I get it. We don’t want mediocrity. But not all super stars are drafted. Kawhi was developed. When he first came to the league, his jumper was horrible. Nobody expected Donovan Mitchell to be an all star. Paul George was also developed.

We have this paradigm that super stars are all like Kyrie or Zion. We need to tank for them.

But player development is underrated and we are on a right track. This year is huge for us even if we don’t beat Toronto. We will be fine and I believe we are going to win, win, win everything


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That's actually not what I'm getting at at all. I think we have a lot going for us based on our youth and I don't want their potential to be blocked by a couple of signings that will restrict their growth and maintain status quo. I think the Game 1 win was great for this team. I wasn't expecting that. I'd be an idiot to say that was meaningless. But I'd feel a lot more awesome about that win and our playoffs if it was off the heels of our future core. Fultz, Iwundu, Isaac, Gordon, Birch, Bamba instead of Augustin, Fournier, Ross, Vucevic and Michael Carter Williams. Then this playoff birth would truly feel like a significant and meaningful step to a bright future instead of feeling like this is the best we can get and farthest we'll go, even after "our guys played their friggin hearts out".
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#23 » by MasterGMer » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:45 pm

Skin wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
Skin wrote:We are what we are. Nobody thinks we're winning this series. But if people want more of the same the next 4 years then let's sign Vuc to the max and make sure Ross doesn't leave town. That's worth around $40-45M. Sounds like good spending to me! Lol


So you are saying let’s screw this and re-tool and tank again?

I get it. We don’t want mediocrity. But not all super stars are drafted. Kawhi was developed. When he first came to the league, his jumper was horrible. Nobody expected Donovan Mitchell to be an all star. Paul George was also developed.

We have this paradigm that super stars are all like Kyrie or Zion. We need to tank for them.

But player development is underrated and we are on a right track. This year is huge for us even if we don’t beat Toronto. We will be fine and I believe we are going to win, win, win everything


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That's actually not what I'm getting at at all. I think we have a lot going for us based on our youth and I don't want their potential to be blocked by a couple of signings that will restrict their growth and maintain status quo. I think the Game 1 win was great for this team. I wasn't expecting that. I'd be an idiot to say that was meaningless. But I'd feel a lot more awesome about that win and our playoffs if it was off the heels of our future core. Fultz, Iwundu, Isaac, Gordon, Birch, Bamba instead of Augustin, Fournier, Ross, Vucevic and Michael Carter Williams. Then this playoff birth would truly feel like a significant and meaningful step to a bright future instead of feeling like this is the best we can get and farthest we'll go, even after "our guys played their friggin hearts out".


So you do not want some signings. No Vuc? Who else can we get with 18M in cap space? Which all star? Signing Vuc might be the best option we have to improve the roster.


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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#24 » by Max Power » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:54 pm

Just reading someone putting Iwundu as part of our future made me throw up a bit. If Iwundu is going to be part of our core then enjoy this playoff run, it’ll be our last for another decade. Newsflash::::Wes Iwundu is the easiest guy on our roster to replace.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#25 » by Skin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:17 am

Max Power wrote:Just reading someone putting Iwundu as part of our future made me throw up a bit. If Iwundu is going to be part of our core then enjoy this playoff run, it’ll be our last for another decade. Newsflash::::Wes Iwundu is the easiest guy on our roster to replace.

Core doesn't have to mean starter. I don't know if that's hard to get or what.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#26 » by Skin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:20 am

MasterGMer wrote:
Skin wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
So you are saying let’s screw this and re-tool and tank again?

I get it. We don’t want mediocrity. But not all super stars are drafted. Kawhi was developed. When he first came to the league, his jumper was horrible. Nobody expected Donovan Mitchell to be an all star. Paul George was also developed.

We have this paradigm that super stars are all like Kyrie or Zion. We need to tank for them.

But player development is underrated and we are on a right track. This year is huge for us even if we don’t beat Toronto. We will be fine and I believe we are going to win, win, win everything


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That's actually not what I'm getting at at all. I think we have a lot going for us based on our youth and I don't want their potential to be blocked by a couple of signings that will restrict their growth and maintain status quo. I think the Game 1 win was great for this team. I wasn't expecting that. I'd be an idiot to say that was meaningless. But I'd feel a lot more awesome about that win and our playoffs if it was off the heels of our future core. Fultz, Iwundu, Isaac, Gordon, Birch, Bamba instead of Augustin, Fournier, Ross, Vucevic and Michael Carter Williams. Then this playoff birth would truly feel like a significant and meaningful step to a bright future instead of feeling like this is the best we can get and farthest we'll go, even after "our guys played their friggin hearts out".


So you do not want some signings. No Vuc? Who else can we get with 18M in cap space? Which all star? Signing Vuc might be the best option we have to improve the roster.


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For that amount someone like Kelly Oubre would be a good get. Perfect age to grow with our young core.

Or just saving the money can be a wise move. Spending just to spend can be a bad move.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#27 » by pepe1991 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:47 am

Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#28 » by drsd » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:06 am

OrlandoSaban wrote:Evan lost this game for us. He has to go. Coach left him in there too long.


Danny Green's defense on the wing has been elite. Augustin and Fournier have not stepped up to his capacity.


..
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#29 » by Audi » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:17 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".


You feel better now bro?
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#30 » by pepe1991 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:25 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".


You feel better now bro?


Actually yes. I had terrible day , not basketball related...
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#31 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:16 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".


Preach, Pepe, Preach!

There sure are plenty of snowflakes who constantly scream loudly on their opinion on how the organization should be run. I was surprised how many came out of the woodworks once Vooch faltered. It was like they had waited a long time to scream their hatred of Vooch.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#32 » by Xatticus » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:25 pm

Spoiler:
pepe1991 wrote:Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".


There is just so much to unpack in this, but I'm going to limit the scope of my response to the few points that really bother me.

We won 42 games this year because we are a good defensive team, yet you want to give every scrap of credit for our success this season to the players whose contributions came largely at the offensive end.

We were +34 on the season when Iwundu was on the floor because we were a very good defensively when he was playing. Isaac and Iwundu shared the floor for 421 minutes this season. Yes. We were poor offensively when they played together, but we had a +4.6 net rating in those 421 minutes because we were an exceptional defensive team when they shared the court.

Offense isn't more important than defense. They are inextricably linked because there is a zero-sum relationship between them. The league average offensive rating is necessarily equal to the league average defensive rating. This means that there is no difference between being 1.5 points better than league average in offensive or defensive rating. What dictates a team's success, however, is the combination of the two.

We were terrific when MCW was on the court (+67) during those final 12 games of the regular season. It's a small sample. Nevertheless, it is a fact.

I'm not sure which posters you are talking about regarding Vucevic, but you are trying to stir up tribal BS. Call out the individuals instead of making these blanketed accusations. I don't expect you mean Skin or MagicMatic as both have been pretty vocal about their positions all season long?
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#33 » by NickAnderson » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:07 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Image


Fultz 0 min played since November of 2018, and overall guy only played 30 nba games after two seasons.
MO Bamba 0 min played since late January, was unplayable when he did play.
Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)
Birch as part of "young core" being older than Fournier, who , according to you, is not part of young core.
Iwundu with track record of two seasons as one of the worst rotation players in whole league.
Gordon still presented as "young and upcomming" after playing half of decade in nba. Slight problem- didn't improve in years

And you are not only one with this super subjective, borderline delusional , agenda filled outlook of "youth" that ,btw never even played together.

Take Vuc and Ross and your young core is good to win between 12 and 25 games for years to come.

BUT

Claim " VUčević is too old , not worth keeping" - contradictions below:
Brilliant ideas by posters in last 2 months:

" Let's get Kemba" -Kemba older than Vučević
"Let's make sign and trade for Vučević " - doesn't understand that sign and trade for UFA makes zero sense
" Let's trade for Jrue Holiday"- Vučević younger than Jrue
" Let's sign Brogdon" - another spring chicken who is same age as Evan, who ,remember folks, "is older".
"Let's sign Middelton" - from what Bucks people think and their fans belive, he will stay. Has player's option for next year anyway, if he wants to avoid free agency frenzy this year, can simply opt in ($13M ). Did i mention that he is basically same age as Ross just will command max contract that Magic, btw CAN'T OFFER.
"Let's just build around our youth" - Youth that never played single sec together.
"Mo Bamba is ready" - i could go back and post all nonsense posters said before season about him starting and how he was better college player than Embiid.
" Markell Fultz will be huge" - is it TOS, is it twerking, is it tweaking, i'm sure you can bet in London on what's next made up injury on his shoulder for next season with him.
"Isaac is a beast" ,yea beast best suited to play 15 min off bench on serious team. PF that plays good defense, can't rebound well, can't shoot well, can't pass well, can't put ball on the floor . What he does well- makes "hype" plays like blocks and steals. Zero reasons why he should play more than 18-20 mpg on good team until he learnes how to be effective and useful for more.
"Iwundu showed improvments" - sure, went from top 3 worst to top 10 worst SG-SFs in nba .With his pace he'll become replacment level player by 2030.
"MCW should be kept for next season". ... sure. Why don't we bring Chris Duhon, at least he is funny.

Funniest part about this season is how half of posters went MIA when Vučević was killing it, and they all returned to troll when he struggled through 2 games of playoffs THAT TEAM plays MOSTLY BECAUSE OF HIM.
When team was 20-25 wins team this forum was EMPTY , now when one player raised his performance to allstar level and team made playoffs with terrible bench and limitations all around him- you want to get rid of him to hope against hope your longboys Isaac and Bamba might one day reach his level ?
"But but but they are lottery picks, team invested in them" . Yes ,so are Bender and Jackson, Hezonja and Payton. Once you are selected you are no longer value of ping pong ball , you are being valued by performance of your game. Markelle Fultz is 1# pick traded for Jonathan Simmons just to remove distraction that his mom and his shady injuries were.

This is some next level bad***t and logic that only makes sense in your heads.

oh btw Happy Easter MFers, can't wait to see massive collective crying after Vuc inks his 4 years contract.
Or when he leaves, during 20 wins season game threads with 2 pages as others post " f*** this i'm watching college basketball there is this kid Tall Scrubish , he made 1 three and has 2 rebounds, i think he is new Durant, that's guy we should target with our guaranteed top 5 pick".


My man
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#34 » by NBlue » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:52 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)



I'll just talk about this one -- you can put it in the category of "fun with sample sizes." What's really funny about this is that JI actually had the best +/- last night and the second best +/- in Game 3 for the Magic. But do you really think that JI is the worst player for the Magic in these playoffs, let alone for any team in the playoffs? Yeah, I kinda doubt it. Just an example of using pepe intentionally misleading with statistics. Always enjoyable though.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#35 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:27 pm

NBlue wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)



I'll just talk about this one -- you can put it in the category of "fun with sample sizes." What's really funny about this is that JI actually had the best +/- last night and the second best +/- in Game 3 for the Magic. But do you really think that JI is the worst player for the Magic in these playoffs, let alone for any team in the playoffs? Yeah, I kinda doubt it. Just an example of using pepe intentionally misleading with statistics. Always enjoyable though.


You mean plus minus that uses 16 min of sample size, with 8 min and 21 seconds of fourth quater where team was already down by 20 ?

But do you really think that JI is the worst player for the Magic in these playoffs,

I said worst starter ,and that's not really debatable, guy has been disaster.

If somebody told you that your starter will,after 4 games have:
30% FG
3-17 (17%) for 3
more FGA than points
2 assists
almost identical no. of fouls as steals, assists and blocks together

What would you think about that player ?

Magic starting SF- PF has 3 threes , 2 assists and 8 fouls in 4 games. That's objective , non suger-coated fact. Witch makes him- by default, the worst starter on both teams.

Magic play 4 on 5 offense with him.
He is young ,he can improve, but i'm talking about Jonathan Isaac as a player today, he is super limited big that should not start on playoff team, Simple as that.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#36 » by Xatticus » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:02 pm

NBlue wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Isaac with worst net rating in playoffs ( -19,9)



I'll just talk about this one -- you can put it in the category of "fun with sample sizes." What's really funny about this is that JI actually had the best +/- last night and the second best +/- in Game 3 for the Magic. But do you really think that JI is the worst player for the Magic in these playoffs, let alone for any team in the playoffs? Yeah, I kinda doubt it. Just an example of using pepe intentionally misleading with statistics. Always enjoyable though.


And just an update to that particular statistic: After last night's game, Isaac now has the best net rating among our starters because of the minutes he missed due to foul trouble.

Augustin -19.7
Fournier -19.5
Gordon -17.5
Vucevic -16.1
Isaac -15.6

That's the problem with using small sample sizes. The starting unit got destroyed after Isaac went out. The finger-pointing is just an attempt to deflect blame. Our problems aren't as simple as a lack of shooters.

I can't help but think that there was a contingent of Nets fans that were blaming Dinwiddie and Levert for the failures of Lopez, Bogdanovic, and Lin just a couple years ago.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#37 » by Magic4champ » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:01 am

They played with all they got. Limited in experience and playoffs intensity games. Vuc and JI needs to toughen up. Hopefully Bamba and Fultz are learning. AG was a surprisingly effective player but obviously needs to polish up a go to offensive move. He can learn a lot from the nastiest game of Kwai Lenard. We really need an upgrade at the point guard and shooting guard to open our offense. It's not a good offense when we are faced with a juggernaut defense. But our defense was great we played with a tough honest defense.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#38 » by NBlue » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:25 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I said worst starter ,and that's not really debatable, [Isaac] has been disaster.
{snip}


Its unclear to me whether Pepe is aware that players are responsible for playing both offense and defense. JI has struggled offensively just like most of our squad -- but he has been a standout defensively -- especially in games 2 & 3. He has basically been the sole player who can defend Siakam consistently as without him on the floor Evan or Ross have gotten completely abused.

Plainly, you are welcome to your opinion that JI has been a "disaster". I don't see that. I see a player that has played exceptionally on the defensive end and has struggled to make shots on the offensive end though he has continued to battle. If any of our more skilled offensive weapons were doing anything against the Raptors it might be that your constant shots at JI (and AG as well) may have some viability but JI has -- at worst -- been our second best player on the defensive end of the floor and certainly has played no worse than Evan on the offensive end.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#39 » by pepe1991 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:47 pm

NBlue wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I said worst starter ,and that's not really debatable, [Isaac] has been disaster.
{snip}


Its unclear to me whether Pepe is aware that players are responsible for playing both offense and defense. JI has struggled offensively just like most of our squad -- but he has been a standout defensively -- especially in games 2 & 3. He has basically been the sole player who can defend Siakam consistently as without him on the floor Evan or Ross have gotten completely abused.

Plainly, you are welcome to your opinion that JI has been a "disaster". I don't see that. I see a player that has played exceptionally on the defensive end and has struggled to make shots on the offensive end though he has continued to battle. If any of our more skilled offensive weapons were doing anything against the Raptors it might be that your constant shots at JI (and AG as well) may have some viability but JI has -- at worst -- been our second best player on the defensive end of the floor and certainly has played no worse than Evan on the offensive end.


Did you see stats of Siakam and Leonard and you are calling that "steller " defense? They are combining for 50% FG on freaking 58,5 eFG . Leonard actually has skyhigh TS of 63% and 8,2 OBPM. Nobody , Isaac included is doing anything to stop them, matter of fact best defense on them whole playoffs was done by- illnes of Leonard in game 3 :lol:

Where you can expect Leonard to be great, it's mindblowing that Siakam is averaging 22 ppg and scores at will on everybody, including Isaac.
Given that he is not diference maker on defense, and is terrible on offense ( again, 30% FG on 7,5 ppg ) , that makes him worst starter. I really don't get how is this even debatable ?! Wide open all the time, can't score at all.
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Re: Our guys played their friggin’ hearts out 

Post#40 » by NBlue » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:19 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
NBlue wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I said worst starter ,and that's not really debatable, [Isaac] has been disaster.
{snip}


Its unclear to me whether Pepe is aware that players are responsible for playing both offense and defense. JI has struggled offensively just like most of our squad -- but he has been a standout defensively -- especially in games 2 & 3. He has basically been the sole player who can defend Siakam consistently as without him on the floor Evan or Ross have gotten completely abused.

Plainly, you are welcome to your opinion that JI has been a "disaster". I don't see that. I see a player that has played exceptionally on the defensive end and has struggled to make shots on the offensive end though he has continued to battle. If any of our more skilled offensive weapons were doing anything against the Raptors it might be that your constant shots at JI (and AG as well) may have some viability but JI has -- at worst -- been our second best player on the defensive end of the floor and certainly has played no worse than Evan on the offensive end.


Did you see stats of Siakam and Leonard and you are calling that "steller " defense? They are combining for 50% FG on freaking 58,5 eFG . Leonard actually has skyhigh TS of 63% and 8,2 OBPM. Nobody , Isaac included is doing anything to stop them, matter of fact best defense on them whole playoffs was done by- illnes of Leonard in game 3 :lol:

Where you can expect Leonard to be great, it's mindblowing that Siakam is averaging 22 ppg and scores at will on everybody, including Isaac.
Given that he is not diference maker on defense, and is terrible on offense ( again, 30% FG on 7,5 ppg ) , that makes him worst starter. I really don't get how is this even debatable ?! Wide open all the time, can't score at all.


This is getting absurd.

Can we look at actual statistics that have some relevance and not whatever it is you are attempting to do here. Siakam went off in game 3. In that game he shot 9-10 when guarded by Magic players not named Jonathan Isaac and 4-10 when guarded by JI. But, yes, feel free to continue to blame JI's D for Siakam scoring against other defenders and for Leonard's shooting despite the fact that JI has not guarded him the entire series (except on a very few occasions).

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