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Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7)

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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#641 » by FFBlitzace » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:38 am

ivDT wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Toronto very well could win a championship this year.

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an nba championship?


Call it salt all you want (I really don't think I'm salty right now though, just disappointed in the Magic's ineptitude), but yeah, until someone actually steps up and beats the Warriors, I see one juggernaut and a handful of teams fighting for a distant 2nd place. If someone does beat them, I'll eat crow, but I'm very confident that won't happen. Not this year, at least. Next year might look different.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#642 » by MagicMatic » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:38 am

Knightro wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:I’ll entirely eat crow in regards to Gordon. He was feasting when we were down by a lot with Vuc on the bench with a higher tempo. We can kiss that version of him goodbye if we bring back Vuc regardless of what we pay him.


I’d put the tempo thing on Clifford more than Vucevic.

For better or worse, Clifford is always going to prefer a slower paced, mistake free, no easy points system.

That’s what he’s always preached since he’s become a head coach and it’s unrealistic to expect it to change now.

This team is going to go as far as Weltman and Hammond can provide Clifford with more talent in the backcourt.


Then AG will remain not as effective offensively and we will be rolling out the same ineffective system. I know you are just stating the likelihood of it not changing, but this iteration of the offense still isn't good.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#643 » by Ducklett » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 am

Knightro wrote:
Ducklett wrote:We gotta let Vuc and Ross go. This should show everyone on this board we aren't trending the right direction on the backs of Vuc, Ross, and Evan. We need to turn it over the youth and tank to find a superstar. It sucks that the league is set up like that, but no superstar, no championship.


I understand how and why you feel that way about superstars and you’re not wrong, but there’s only usually 0-2 superstars in a given draft.

The Magic would have to basically commit to MULTIPLE seasons at the bottom in order to effectively play the tank ball game and even then they’d still have to get incredibly fortunate and lucky with their ping pong balls.

If you’re fine with that, so be it, but it’s pretty unrealistic to expect them to go that route coming off the season they’ve just had.

Just my two cents.


If you let Vuc and Ross walk, this front office can easily sell it. We got our playoffs that everyone wanted. These guys left to search for paydays. You start clearing up cap space for 2021 and sell Greek Freak + another max contract with Isaac, Bamba, Fultz, AG, and hopefully some great rookies and sophomores and a top 5 pick in 2021.

If people don't understand what it takes to make a contender in this league, you don't cater to those basketball neophytes, you make the right moves to put your franchise in the right direction to win it all.

I rather have Philly/Dallas/ATL than another 7 years that are a repeat of the last 7 years. You should too.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#644 » by SOUL » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 am

I think Toronto is the 3rd best team after GS/Milwaukee. Certainly a chance, but I can see Siakam being neutralized more by Draymond/KD.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#645 » by BlueBalls » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 am

Knightro wrote:
BlueBalls wrote:You don’t seem to understand that we, as Magic fans, have little external efficacy towards our FO making smart basketball moves. The ONLY reason this team is where it is now is because of lotto picks. And even then we’ve either blown those (Elfried, Mario) or traded them for a pile of magic beans (Dipo, Sabonis). So no, many of is don’t think this WeHam Portmanteau is going to be any different. But a higher draft pick statistically leads to better players, regardless of who is calling the shots.


So essentially you’re admitting that you’re working off a “the guys who were here before sucked so the guys here now obviously will also suck!” rationale?

Sorry man, but that doesn’t work for me.

This team just improved by 17 wins from one season to the next. No matter what anyone wants to say about it, that’s real tangible progress.

Getting beat in 5 games (which mind you almost every single poster on this board picked the Magic to lose in 4 or 5) to a really good Toronto team doesn’t make me any less excited and interested to see how the front office and coaching staff will look to build off the clear progress that was made this season.


Yes. It is progress. One might argue that this team overachieved. I certainly would. But there was no way around this group improving upon the prior year, so you may not want to get yourself flagged for excessive celebration regarding this tangible improvement, and other than Clifford, they had little to do with it.

What happens next is what matters. This is a crossroads and I don’t have any faith that these guys are going to do better than their predecessors simply because they helped make MIL what it currently is. I’d feel a lot better about things if we had a top 8 pick. I’m scared they’re going to re-up Ross to an Evanesque deal and do even more for Playoff Vuc. I’m afraid they’re going to be overly buoyed by a playoff trip and merely tune up the engine rather than overhaul the car.

Superstars win championships. Hell, these days you need 2 or even 3. We don’t have a superstar on this roster. We have solid players who still should improve in Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and hopefully Fultz. All 4 guys could be All Stars. But we need the horse. The Leonard. A Giannis. Steph. Durant. Russ. You get the idea. Picking 16th and re-upping these schleppers isn’t going to cause this team to improve. It’ll take a pair of brass balls to do what needs to be done. I don’t think these guys have them.

Guess we’ll see.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#646 » by Howard Mass » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 am

zaymon wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:This team needs more backcourt and wing scoring. Markele Fultz could bring that next season but even if he can, more help is going to be needed there.

Scoring, ball handling and playmaking. If we want more wing scoring we would need to bench Isaac.


There are questions if The Gordon and Issac 3 and 4 pairing works long term.

Lots of questions this summer.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#647 » by zaymon » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:40 am

We are so hard on our players but truth is we are playing truly elite team. Gasol trade made them contenders and we are just starting to rise. Look what Raptors did last year with better team than ours
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#648 » by woosah » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:40 am

Well if they do let Vuc walk, it won't be the PR hit that maybe we thought. The playoffs do not erase his great season, but it will be fresh in most minds and it can certainly be massaged into the masses heads that it may be good to cut the ties now.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#649 » by Knightro » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:42 am

thelead wrote:How do you play fast paced with a Vuc-style center? It's impossible.


Hardly.

The 2009 Suns had a top 4 pace with 36 year old Shaq starting 75 games and playing 30 MPG.

The Lakers routinely were top 10 in pace every single year in the 1980s with Kareem lumbering up and down the court.

Brook Lopez isn’t exactly fleet of foot and the Bucks were a top 5 pace team this year.

Pace and tempo have a lot less to do with personnel, especially at the big spots. It’s entirely a culture/system/coaching thing.

If the coach wants to play at a breakneck pace, you’ll be able to play at a breakneck pace regardless of who your center is.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#650 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:42 am

Howard Mass wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:This team needs more backcourt and wing scoring. Markele Fultz could bring that next season but even if he can, more help is going to be needed there.

Scoring, ball handling and playmaking. If we want more wing scoring we would need to bench Isaac.


There are questions if The Gordon and Issac 3 and 4 pairing works long term.

Lots of questions this summer.


There are questions, but I think that's the least of our worries right now. Our backcourt is one of the worst in the league.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#651 » by ethen » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:43 am

Solid Snake wrote:
zaymon wrote:next year will be tough, Toronto really showed all our weaknesses other coaches can just do the same
Not Necessarily.... Next Season we're getting bamba back, fultz back and #16.... Should be better next season with that infusion of talent and internal improvement.

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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#652 » by zaymon » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:43 am

Howard Mass wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:This team needs more backcourt and wing scoring. Markele Fultz could bring that next season but even if he can, more help is going to be needed there.

Scoring, ball handling and playmaking. If we want more wing scoring we would need to bench Isaac.


There are questions if The Gordon and Issac 3 and 4 pairing works long term.

Lots of questions this summer.

Looking at the lineups stats Orlando is much better with Evan, Ross and Gordon/Isaac. Maybe with shot creation guards it would work better with both of them
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#653 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:43 am

Vucevic is shooting 38.5% FG for the series. He's a center
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#654 » by SOUL » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:44 am

Am I the only one fine with competing this year as well as moving in a different direction next year?

Vuc played way better than expected, but we're still capped with a ceiling and it's no guarantee he delivers the same year going forward. We couldn't simply just move him when he was our best option for most of the year, so we kept him. If the deal he wants is more than 2 years (which is probable) and a lot of money (which is probable), the Magic by no means have to commit to him just because he was our best player this season. To say that we have to is illogical because there are factors and context beyond his play this year.

I'd rather compete with a competitive roster to at least get a sniff of what it's like to be in the playoffs than just be a Hornets-like team that is just getting the 13th-14th pick year after year and barely missing the playoffs. So I'm happy our guys rallied and fought hard.

Now, if we start trying to sell that crap that we did a few years ago when we'd win a few games at the end of the year and go from 23 wins to 25 wins and lose 1-2 draft spots and call that "progress", that's bull.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#655 » by Howard Mass » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:44 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
zaymon wrote:Scoring, ball handling and playmaking. If we want more wing scoring we would need to bench Isaac.


There are questions if The Gordon and Issac 3 and 4 pairing works long term.

Lots of questions this summer.


There are questions, but I think that's the least of our worries right now. Our backcourt is one of the worst in the league.


Augustin has done a good job this season and is a big reason why this team made the playoffs. The Magic didn't go out and get Fultz though to be a backup.

The Gordon and Issac question might not get answered this summer but the backcourt definitely needs improvement.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#656 » by npiper17 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:45 am

BlueBalls wrote:
Knightro wrote:
BlueBalls wrote:You don’t seem to understand that we, as Magic fans, have little external efficacy towards our FO making smart basketball moves. The ONLY reason this team is where it is now is because of lotto picks. And even then we’ve either blown those (Elfried, Mario) or traded them for a pile of magic beans (Dipo, Sabonis). So no, many of is don’t think this WeHam Portmanteau is going to be any different. But a higher draft pick statistically leads to better players, regardless of who is calling the shots.


So essentially you’re admitting that you’re working off a “the guys who were here before sucked so the guys here now obviously will also suck!” rationale?

Sorry man, but that doesn’t work for me.

This team just improved by 17 wins from one season to the next. No matter what anyone wants to say about it, that’s real tangible progress.

Getting beat in 5 games (which mind you almost every single poster on this board picked the Magic to lose in 4 or 5) to a really good Toronto team doesn’t make me any less excited and interested to see how the front office and coaching staff will look to build off the clear progress that was made this season.


Yes. It is progress. One might argue that this team overachieved. I certainly would. But there was no way around this group improving upon the prior year, so you may not want to get yourself flagged for excessive celebration regarding this tangible improvement, and other than Clifford, they had little to do with it.

What happens next is what matters. This is a crossroads and I don’t have any faith that these guys are going to do better than their predecessors simply because they helped make MIL what it currently is. I’d feel a lot better about things if we had a top 8 pick. I’m scared they’re going to re-up Ross to an Evanesque deal and do even more for Playoff Vuc. I’m afraid they’re going to be overly buoyed by a playoff trip and merely tune up the engine rather than overhaul the car.

Superstars win championships. Hell, these days you need 2 or even 3. We don’t have a superstar on this roster. We have solid players who still should improve in Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and hopefully Fultz. All 4 guys could be All Stars. But we need the horse. The Leonard. A Giannis. Steph. Durant. Russ. You get the idea. Picking 16th and re-upping these schleppers isn’t going to cause this team to improve. It’ll take a pair of brass balls to do what needs to be done. I don’t think these guys have them.

Guess we’ll see.


Weltman also helped make Toronto what they currently are. Just ask Masai Ujiri.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#657 » by FFBlitzace » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:45 am

Message Boar wrote:Have a drink.


I don't drink.

Eat something good.


i left dinner in the oven too long while engrossed in this game and it got overdone.

Watch a funny movie.


Hollywood is too much of a soyfest lately.

Call an old friend.


I don't really have any friends I'd just call to chat with at 10pm.

Make love.


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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#658 » by Ducklett » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:46 am

Howard Mass wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
There are questions if The Gordon and Issac 3 and 4 pairing works long term.

Lots of questions this summer.


There are questions, but I think that's the least of our worries right now. Our backcourt is one of the worst in the league.


Augustin has done a good job this season and is a big reason why this team made the playoffs. The Magic didn't go out and get Fultz though to be a backup.

The Gordon and Issac question might not get answered this summer but the backcourt definitely needs improvement.


I think at this juncture that Fultz is just as likely to never see the floor meaningfully than he is to be a high-tier starting PG.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#659 » by CoachD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:46 am

swarlesbarkley wrote:did lowry really improve when he got to toronto or did he just start getting star calls?



Star calls??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

He hasn't been given one continuation call this whole series. In the act... On a gather... In the air .... It's all side out.
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Re: Playoffs G4: Toronto Raptors (2) @ Orlando Magic (7) 

Post#660 » by NavalAviator94 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:46 am

Mauro Pedrosa wrote:Vucevic is shooting 38.5% FG for the series. He's a center


They haven’t let Vuc nor the Magic get shots in the paint. They know we are not a shooting team.


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