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The Future is bright

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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#21 » by Solid Snake » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:12 am

id rather Jrue than brogdan 10 times out of 10 for me personally
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FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#22 » by fendilim » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:48 am

a lot of the success will lie of fultz’ shoulders.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#23 » by fendilim » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:35 am

pepe1991 wrote:
JordanBPeterson wrote:I took an interest in the Magic this year because I had Gordon on my fantasy and actually bet on a number of games that the Magic actually covered.

If you'll forgive me for intruding on the conversation - I thought there might be the off chance some of you might be temporarily interested (even if only for a minute) what someone like me - who has no emotional connection to any player on the Magic roster - would do this offseason.

I would start by letting Vuc and Ross walk. They're both fine players but ultimately they're not going to move the needle for you in any meaningful way; the one caveat is if Vuc is really generous and agrees to come back for Mozgov money (unlikely to happen I know but its a caveat afterall) otherwise you immediately move in a different direction.

Secondly, offer Brogdon a contract that will make it very difficult for Bucks to match (they're 99% likely to match anything but you have to try) you want to do everything you can to lure this kid over and make him the guy going forward. He is the best insurance policy in case the Fultz experiment goes to ****. Best case scenario if Fultz works-out then you have two awesome guards to lead the backcourt and then you basically won't have to worry about that area for a long while. Other options would be DRose who's another guard who would be a perfect mentor for Fultz.

You're stuck with Fournier for the foreseeable future I'm afraid but at least you don't have to obsess over shooting - with Ross gone I'd simply have Gordon take more shots over 36 min per instead of 33.

Lastly get Deandre Jordan to come over to just help with rebounding on a fair deal.

Basically you're playing a hand wherein you're betting long on Gordon, Fultz, Issac and Bamba - if two of those guys pan-out then you're very close to making a run without having to endure another rebuild.

You want to salvage the good pieces you have and build slowly that way but without giving money to players that aren't going to do much for you. Vuc is a classic situation where its very tempting to pay a guy with such great production but its not the production you really need to get the team moving in the direction you want it go.



I respect opinion, in same time you guys have to worry about your own team.
Leonard will leave Raptors for Clippers or Lakers and you will be stuck paying Lowry, Ibaka and Gasol, Powell and Vleet $98 M
As for Brogdon, you refer to him as a "Kid". On start of next season "kid" Brogdon will be 27, but Vučević (29) and Ross (28) are outdated? Brogdon won ROY by being almost 25 years old.
Not sure if pepe is trying to be a douche by shooting down this guys Kawhi' hopes. haha


With the way things are going, I think Kawhi stays. But I think Masai has to figure out how he is gonna sell the Raptors' future to Kawhi. I know future is bright with Pascal, but Gasol, Lowry and Ibaka are aging. And I don't think guys like Powell, FVV and others can be of the same caliber wih the Gasol, Lowry, Ibaka.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#24 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:46 am

fendilim wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
JordanBPeterson wrote:I took an interest in the Magic this year because I had Gordon on my fantasy and actually bet on a number of games that the Magic actually covered.

If you'll forgive me for intruding on the conversation - I thought there might be the off chance some of you might be temporarily interested (even if only for a minute) what someone like me - who has no emotional connection to any player on the Magic roster - would do this offseason.

I would start by letting Vuc and Ross walk. They're both fine players but ultimately they're not going to move the needle for you in any meaningful way; the one caveat is if Vuc is really generous and agrees to come back for Mozgov money (unlikely to happen I know but its a caveat afterall) otherwise you immediately move in a different direction.

Secondly, offer Brogdon a contract that will make it very difficult for Bucks to match (they're 99% likely to match anything but you have to try) you want to do everything you can to lure this kid over and make him the guy going forward. He is the best insurance policy in case the Fultz experiment goes to ****. Best case scenario if Fultz works-out then you have two awesome guards to lead the backcourt and then you basically won't have to worry about that area for a long while. Other options would be DRose who's another guard who would be a perfect mentor for Fultz.

You're stuck with Fournier for the foreseeable future I'm afraid but at least you don't have to obsess over shooting - with Ross gone I'd simply have Gordon take more shots over 36 min per instead of 33.

Lastly get Deandre Jordan to come over to just help with rebounding on a fair deal.

Basically you're playing a hand wherein you're betting long on Gordon, Fultz, Issac and Bamba - if two of those guys pan-out then you're very close to making a run without having to endure another rebuild.

You want to salvage the good pieces you have and build slowly that way but without giving money to players that aren't going to do much for you. Vuc is a classic situation where its very tempting to pay a guy with such great production but its not the production you really need to get the team moving in the direction you want it go.



I respect opinion, in same time you guys have to worry about your own team.
Leonard will leave Raptors for Clippers or Lakers and you will be stuck paying Lowry, Ibaka and Gasol, Powell and Vleet $98 M
As for Brogdon, you refer to him as a "Kid". On start of next season "kid" Brogdon will be 27, but Vučević (29) and Ross (28) are outdated? Brogdon won ROY by being almost 25 years old.
Not sure if pepe is trying to be a douche by shooting down this guys Kawhi' hopes. haha


With the way things are going, I think Kawhi stays. But I think Masai has to figure out how he is gonna sell the Raptors' future to Kawhi. I know future is bright with Pascal, but Gasol, Lowry and Ibaka are aging. And I don't think guys like Powell, FVV and others can be of the same caliber wih the Gasol, Lowry, Ibaka.


I didn't want to be ***k , but after that Ibaka interview i highly doubt he will stay.
Kawhi is for years one of my favorite players but guy is awkward as hell off court.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#25 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:47 am

fendilim wrote:a lot of the success will lie of fultz’ shoulders.


ouch :lol:
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#26 » by orthoman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:47 pm

Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#27 » by MaxFischer » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:05 pm

I still believe there is a world in which AG and JI can coexist on this team. That being said, it's obvious we need more offensive production out of both. In addition to JI working on his 3 point shot, I truly believe he could be utilized more in the post. Get him closer to the basket and use his length. But to do that he needs more muscle. AG needs to tighten up those dribble drives and he too could be used more in the post or in PnR situations by having him dive to the hoop. Use his athleticism to our advantage.

But as everyone knows this team needs playmakers on the wing. Both draft picks should be used on BPA that can create from the wing. Hope you get lucky with one of them.
May I see some documentation on that please?
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#28 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:26 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:So take Isaac and AG and then add Bamba, Fultz, and NAW (or another sg at 16) to the mix and then try to tell me that this team has no future or this roster is strapped for talent. We are a player that can create off the dribble (whether that be fultz, someone at 16, or someone in free agency next year) and an upgraded bench away from being a real threat in this league.


no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#29 » by PrimeThyme » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:41 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:So take Isaac and AG and then add Bamba, Fultz, and NAW (or another sg at 16) to the mix and then try to tell me that this team has no future or this roster is strapped for talent. We are a player that can create off the dribble (whether that be fultz, someone at 16, or someone in free agency next year) and an upgraded bench away from being a real threat in this league.


no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.

Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#30 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:45 pm

fendilim wrote:a lot of the success will lie of fultz’ shoulders.


100%.

While that sounds scary to many, we didn’t invest the haul that Philly originally sent Boston for Fultz. Our success falls on him as he is Plan A right now but we did not sacrifice our future for him.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#31 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:53 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:So take Isaac and AG and then add Bamba, Fultz, and NAW (or another sg at 16) to the mix and then try to tell me that this team has no future or this roster is strapped for talent. We are a player that can create off the dribble (whether that be fultz, someone at 16, or someone in free agency next year) and an upgraded bench away from being a real threat in this league.


no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.

Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.

as this playoff series and others have shown, you need more than 1 player that can create off the dribble. Fultz recovering alone (and i still have doubts he does recover) is not enough to be a threat.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#32 » by MagicMatic » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:04 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:So take Isaac and AG and then add Bamba, Fultz, and NAW (or another sg at 16) to the mix and then try to tell me that this team has no future or this roster is strapped for talent. We are a player that can create off the dribble (whether that be fultz, someone at 16, or someone in free agency next year) and an upgraded bench away from being a real threat in this league.


no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.

Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#33 » by GameOver25 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:41 pm

I'm still afraid even after the playoffs, the FO will still commit to the same team. If this happens, I'll most likely only watch games here and there. These playoffs should have given them enough evaluation period.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#34 » by PrimeThyme » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:46 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.

Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.

AG, Isaac, Bamba, and Fultz to go along with Clifford and a steady FO is why I think the future is bright. It will be imperative for us to upgrade at backcourt, yes, but if Fultz can get healthy, we can hit on a shooting guard at 16, and target another backcourt player in free agency the next two years that will be a huge upgrade and isnt that far-fetched in my eyes.

As far as the winning culture goes, I think we have clear evidence of how crucial it can be. Look at any of the teams in the playoffs right now outside of Philly and none of them tanked to get in the position they are in. Teams like Denver, Boston, Toronto, Houston, Utah, LA, and I could go on and on continued to win and hit on draft picks in the late lottery, 1st and 2nd round, made smart trades, etc to get in the position they are in.

Those type of environments are just so crucial to development and players all around the league will tell you that. Look where teams like PHX and Minnesota are today who have been tanking for a decade plus. People fantasize over the Philly model but look how fragile that dynasty is. Embiid can't even play a whole series and will most definitely have his career cut short to injuries at some point imo.

I think culture is everything. The one thing I respect about Weltman is he recognizes that and made it clear that he would come in and change the culture of this organization and him bringing in the right coaches and players is the reason we have improved so much with virtually the same roster this year.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#35 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:47 pm

orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.


It does seem like he was playing well in the regular season when everyone was playing checkers - but now that the playoff intensity has started, he's still playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.

It also explains why he was pretty terrible in clutch situations even in the regular season.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#36 » by Bergmaniac » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:04 pm

This seems way too optimistic to me. Isaac has a lot of potential and is already a difference maker defensively, but outside him we really don't have that much. Bamba looked like he is years from being a plus player on either side of the ball during his first season. Fultz could well be a total bust. AG is a solid piece, but he's no more than the 3rd best guy on a team who can challenge for the top spots. If Vuc and Ross walk and we don't pull off a miracle free agent signing, this could well be a 30 wins team next year.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#37 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:07 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.

AG, Isaac, Bamba, and Fultz to go along with Clifford and a steady FO is why I think the future is bright. It will be imperative for us to upgrade at backcourt, yes, but if Fultz can get healthy, we can hit on a shooting guard at 16, and target another backcourt player in free agency the next two years that will be a huge upgrade and isnt that far-fetched in my eyes.

As far as the winning culture goes, I think we have clear evidence of how crucial it can be. Look at any of the teams in the playoffs right now outside of Philly and none of them tanked to get in the position they are in. Teams like Denver, Boston, Toronto, Houston, Utah, LA, and I could go on and on continued to win and hit on draft picks in the late lottery, 1st and 2nd round, made smart trades, etc to get in the position they are in.

Those type of environments are just so crucial to development and players all around the league will tell you that. Look where teams like PHX and Minnesota are today who have been tanking for a decade plus. People fantasize over the Philly model but look how fragile that dynasty is. Embiid can't even play a whole series and will most definitely have his career cut short to injuries at some point imo.

I think culture is everything. The one thing I respect about Weltman is he recognizes that and made it clear that he would come in and change the culture of this organization and him bringing in the right coaches and players is the reason we have improved so much with virtually the same roster this year.

Bamba was one of the worst players metric wise in the NBA last year if i remember correctly. We have no idea whether he develops into Embiid, Tyson Chandler or Alex Len. Fultz is a wild card, he has yet to show in the NBA his skills from college. As people have said, he is a lottery ticket. Doubtful to win, but great if you do. Isaac looks to be a great role player if he can continue to develop and AG looks like a great role player right now. but nothing here screams "threat" to anyone. Denver had late lottery but also two #7's. LA has tanked and three two #2's (russel, ball, ingram). Utah traded away Deron Williams for draft haul to rebuild their team. Boston had HOF'rs come to their team and then was able to trade them away to rebuild. So lets not act like Orlando can easily follow some of those paths.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#38 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:08 pm

orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.

so how does Denver win? Jokic just as slow if not slower.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#39 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:14 pm

tiderulz wrote:
orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.

so how does Denver win? Jokic just as slow if not slower.


Jokic is a banger though. When he backs guys down, they move. When Vuc does it, no one moves and he does a spin hook shot or fade away.

They also have Murray to take some pressure away from Jokic. If Fultz becomes our Murray, Vuc would probably look a lot better.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#40 » by MagicMatic » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:24 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.

AG, Isaac, Bamba, and Fultz to go along with Clifford and a steady FO is why I think the future is bright. It will be imperative for us to upgrade at backcourt, yes, but if Fultz can get healthy, we can hit on a shooting guard at 16, and target another backcourt player in free agency the next two years that will be a huge upgrade and isnt that far-fetched in my eyes.

As far as the winning culture goes, I think we have clear evidence of how crucial it can be. Look at any of the teams in the playoffs right now outside of Philly and none of them tanked to get in the position they are in. Teams like Denver, Boston, Toronto, Houston, Utah, LA, and I could go on and on continued to win and hit on draft picks in the late lottery, 1st and 2nd round, made smart trades, etc to get in the position they are in.

Those type of environments are just so crucial to development and players all around the league will tell you that. Look where teams like PHX and Minnesota are today who have been tanking for a decade plus. People fantasize over the Philly model but look how fragile that dynasty is. Embiid can't even play a whole series and will most definitely have his career cut short to injuries at some point imo.

I think culture is everything. The one thing I respect about Weltman is he recognizes that and made it clear that he would come in and change the culture of this organization and him bringing in the right coaches and players is the reason we have improved so much with virtually the same roster this year.


Winning talent creates “winning culture”.
“Winning culture” doesn’t create talent.
Talent always wins in the NBA.

We have no go-to scorer, no back court, and are still in talent acquisition mode. Clifford is a positive and Isaac/ AG have proven they can play and won’t shrink in the playoffs. That’s all there is to say.

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