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The Future is bright

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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#41 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:27 pm

orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.


I don’t agree with either the blanket statement of “Vuc has to go — end of story” or “Vuc must be retained at all cost.”

Both are extremes.

If someone like Sacramento or Dallas want to max Vuc out in unrestricted free agency then bravo sir and best of luck at your next stop.

Side note: all the radio talk here in Dallas lately is that they are considering a smaller lineup approach where Porzingis is their center and they no longer have interest in Vuc.


On the other hand, if Vuc wants to do a (for example) 4 year, $80M with a similar declining pay structure as AG then I think we bite. This brings stability for the short term and makes him extra tradable if and when Bamba is ready.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#42 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:48 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.

so how does Denver win? Jokic just as slow if not slower.


Jokic is a banger though. When he backs guys down, they move. When Vuc does it, no one moves and he does a spin hook shot or fade away.

They also have Murray to take some pressure away from Jokic. If Fultz becomes our Murray, Vuc would probably look a lot better.

Vuc weighs more than Jokic, is it a matter of technique that can be taught?
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#43 » by UCF » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:03 pm

You keep Vuc until Bamba shows he’s ready to take over. Pay the man, he’s earned it.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#44 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm

The very best part of this playoff is that management can no longer hide from the fact that we need playmakers and shooters. And any move they make that does not regard these two things should give us all pause.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#45 » by bigdogdylan5 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:47 pm

JordanBPeterson wrote:I took an interest in the Magic this year because I had Gordon on my fantasy and actually bet on a number of games that the Magic actually covered.

If you'll forgive me for intruding on the conversation - I thought there might be the off chance some of you might be temporarily interested (even if only for a minute) what someone like me - who has no emotional connection to any player on the Magic roster - would do this offseason.

I would start by letting Vuc and Ross walk. They're both fine players but ultimately they're not going to move the needle for you in any meaningful way; the one caveat is if Vuc is really generous and agrees to come back for Mozgov money (unlikely to happen I know but its a caveat afterall) otherwise you immediately move in a different direction.

Secondly, offer Brogdon a contract that will make it very difficult for Bucks to match (they're 99% likely to match anything but you have to try) you want to do everything you can to lure this kid over and make him the guy going forward. He is the best insurance policy in case the Fultz experiment goes to ****. Best case scenario if Fultz works-out then you have two awesome guards to lead the backcourt and then you basically won't have to worry about that area for a long while. Other options would be DRose who's another guard who would be a perfect mentor for Fultz.

You're stuck with Fournier for the foreseeable future I'm afraid but at least you don't have to obsess over shooting - with Ross gone I'd simply have Gordon take more shots over 36 min per instead of 33.

Lastly get Deandre Jordan to come over to just help with rebounding on a fair deal.

Basically you're playing a hand wherein you're betting long on Gordon, Fultz, Issac and Bamba - if two of those guys pan-out then you're very close to making a run without having to endure another rebuild.

You want to salvage the good pieces you have and build slowly that way but without giving money to players that aren't going to do much for you. Vuc is a classic situation where its very tempting to pay a guy with such great production but its not the production you really need to get the team moving in the direction you want it go.

Very concise and unbiased accurate assessment. I want to see what Vuc gets offered but if were talking anything over 2-3 years I pass. This was the best year of his career and I see this as his absolute ceiling. Ross is interesting because I think again it depends on the deal but my gut says not to overpay for these guys.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#46 » by JordanBPeterson » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:09 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
no, we are much more than just 1 player away from being any threat to anyone.

Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.
That's exactly why Brogdan is so important. I sense there a few people in here who thinks he's slightly overrated or not worth a 20 mil deal etc. I would beg you to reconsider your position.

Brogdon would start for most teams in the NBA right now. He's the most complete PG who is still on a rookie contract. If he goes to Orlando what you basically get is one of the most fundamentally sound PG's to lead your back court for the forseeable future. I think if you make the TMac pitch to his agent then you're in the driver's seat potentially.

Also who cares if he's 27 years old? The guy is going to get at least a high paying 4 year deal from someone - it might as well be from the Magic who need him the most.

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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#47 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:20 pm

JordanBPeterson wrote:I took an interest in the Magic this year because I had Gordon on my fantasy and actually bet on a number of games that the Magic actually covered.

If you'll forgive me for intruding on the conversation - I thought there might be the off chance some of you might be temporarily interested (even if only for a minute) what someone like me - who has no emotional connection to any player on the Magic roster - would do this offseason.

I would start by letting Vuc and Ross walk. They're both fine players but ultimately they're not going to move the needle for you in any meaningful way; the one caveat is if Vuc is really generous and agrees to come back for Mozgov money (unlikely to happen I know but its a caveat afterall) otherwise you immediately move in a different direction.

Secondly, offer Brogdon a contract that will make it very difficult for Bucks to match (they're 99% likely to match anything but you have to try) you want to do everything you can to lure this kid over and make him the guy going forward. He is the best insurance policy in case the Fultz experiment goes to ****. Best case scenario if Fultz works-out then you have two awesome guards to lead the backcourt and then you basically won't have to worry about that area for a long while. Other options would be DRose who's another guard who would be a perfect mentor for Fultz.

You're stuck with Fournier for the foreseeable future I'm afraid but at least you don't have to obsess over shooting - with Ross gone I'd simply have Gordon take more shots over 36 min per instead of 33.

Lastly get Deandre Jordan to come over to just help with rebounding on a fair deal.

Basically you're playing a hand wherein you're betting long on Gordon, Fultz, Issac and Bamba - if two of those guys pan-out then you're very close to making a run without having to endure another rebuild.

You want to salvage the good pieces you have and build slowly that way but without giving money to players that aren't going to do much for you. Vuc is a classic situation where its very tempting to pay a guy with such great production but its not the production you really need to get the team moving in the direction you want it go.

the only way we get Brogdan from Milwaukee is offering him stupid money. And offering stupid money to a role player is a recipe for disaster. And he has shown he is not a PG, so if Fultz doesnt work out, then no he is not really insurance for him. and having Gordon take more shots is not a good thing.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#48 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:22 pm

JordanBPeterson wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Disagree, but we usually do. I also said that we are a healthy Fultz and an upgraded bench from being a threat to someone in a series so that would be more than one player anyways.


We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.
That's exactly why Brogdan is so important. I sense there a few people in here who thinks he's slightly overrated or not worth a 20 mil deal etc. I would beg you to reconsider your position.

Brogdon would start for most teams in the NBA right now. He's the most complete PG who is still on a rookie contract. If he goes to Orlando what you basically get is one of the most fundamentally sound PG's to lead your back court for the forseeable future. I think if you make the TMac pitch to his agent then you're in the driver's seat potentially.

Also who cares if he's 27 years old? The guy is going to get at least a high paying 4 year deal from someone - it might as well be from the Magic who need him the most.

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count me as someone who thinks Brogdan is not worth $20mil+. and he has shown he is not really a PG, he is more combo/SG. Furthermore, why would he want to leave playing with a top-5 player and #1 seed who will only get better, to come play with Orlando?
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#49 » by MasterGMer » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:38 pm

Vuc is the reason we are in the playoff. My idea is to offer him a two year contract. Short term.


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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#50 » by JordanBPeterson » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:39 pm

tiderulz wrote:
JordanBPeterson wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
We are basically putting our eggs into the baskets of the #16 pick, Fultz, and prying Brogdon away from a winning situation in Milwaukee. Those scenarios could all easily go south or not even happen. If we want to utilize AG and Isaac to their best potential we should let Vuc go and roll the dice. Upgrading the back court should be the highest priority.

I don’t see how we can say the future is bright when we lack the most fundamental aspect of the game today in a back court, while we are conflicted about bringing back a Center (of all positions) that shrinks in the playoffs.
That's exactly why Brogdan is so important. I sense there a few people in here who thinks he's slightly overrated or not worth a 20 mil deal etc. I would beg you to reconsider your position.

Brogdon would start for most teams in the NBA right now. He's the most complete PG who is still on a rookie contract. If he goes to Orlando what you basically get is one of the most fundamentally sound PG's to lead your back court for the forseeable future. I think if you make the TMac pitch to his agent then you're in the driver's seat potentially.

Also who cares if he's 27 years old? The guy is going to get at least a high paying 4 year deal from someone - it might as well be from the Magic who need him the most.

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count me as someone who thinks Brogdan is not worth $20mil+. and he has shown he is not really a PG, he is more combo/SG. Furthermore, why would he want to leave playing with a top-5 player and #1 seed who will only get better, to come play with Orlando?
He comes to Orlando because you're offering him the keys to be the main guy.

You're right though, he is more of a combo PG/SG but if we're being fair that's what the NBA is now. Basically these days at the PG position what you want is a deadly shooter who doesn't turn the ball over very much and at the same time is big enough so opposing players can't shoot over them - that combination of skills is the hardest thing to guard against.

I have a feeling that if you talked to OKC fans right now that they might be wishing they had a Brogdon in the backcourt but hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#51 » by OrlandoSaban » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:43 pm

we are flat out ahead of schedule at this point.


:crazy: :banghead: You are kidding right? We have been at this for 7 (SEVEN) years dude
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#52 » by ivDT » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:47 pm

not to sound abzurd, but it isn't obvious to me that this is a bad thread.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#53 » by NBlue » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:09 pm

I'd like to buy into the original poster's "bright future" theory and I think AG's performance in the playoffs and JI's tremendous growth over the course of the season and into the playoffs are two rather massive exhibits in support of the belief. That said, while I am not writing off Bamba by any means he has not flashed any of the potential we have seen from JI. He has not shown any of the defensive awareness or impact on either side of the ball that JI has provided. Likewise, although Fultz has shown some flashes (triple double, for example) what he is able to get back to after his significant injury is a gigantic mystery.

Accordingly, I have serious reservations about the future. I certainly hope Bamba develops and the Magic management team are far more knowledgeable and have more information that I - however, at least from my perspective, he has not shown the motor, awareness or drive necessary to achieve the potential he would appear to have. I sure as hell hope I am totally wrong and he develops into a stud.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#54 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:32 pm

I'm going through some salary things, and i wanna now how did fans figure Magic can sign Kemba?

His max salary without supermax is actually 5 years, $187M, that's over $37M a year.
Magic without some brutal gimnastics and trades can't offer more than around $20-22M to anybody. That takes guy like Middleton out of conversation as well, as Pacers , Lakers , Knicks can offer him actual max contract . Even Bucks still can because Hill only has $1M guaranteed of his $20M salary and they can simply not resign current pending FAs. ( Mirotić, Ilyasova, Lopez.... ).

I'm looking through restriced free agents, and even to lure Brogdon they will need to offer at least 4 years $70M ( that was salary needed to get Johnson, Crabbe and Hardaway when they were RFA).

Even if Magic let Vuc and Ross go, there is around ,as i said $22-24 M to be spent on at least 3 to 5 players.
Depth chart before FA starts is :

PG: DJ Augustin / Fultz / empty slot
SG: Evan fournier / Frazier
SF : Isaac/ empty slot
PF : Gordon / Empty slot
C: Bamba/ Mozgov / Empty slot

bonus : 16# pick whatever he will play.

At apsolute best, without Vuc and Ross, that roster, even with getting somebody for $8-$12M , will struggle to win 35 games because it will bring basically 5 rookies into regular rotation. (Fultz,Bamba, 16# pick, second round pick and Frazier ).
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#55 » by Xatticus » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:35 pm

tiderulz wrote:
orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.

so how does Denver win? Jokic just as slow if not slower.


He is definitely slower and less athletic than Vucevic, but he is superior in almost every other way. He is much more physical and capable of backing people down. Vucevic seldom improves his position after he receives the ball. Smaller players can even dislodge him and push him away from the basket after he catches the ball. Jokic has much better handles and can use it to work his way to the basket. He is a better and more dynamic shooter in that Vucevic is really just a set shot specialist. Jokic can initiate and finish through contact. He is much better at getting to the free throw line. He is a vastly superior passer. Vucevic reads the game, but Jokic sees the floor. I'd give Vucevic the edge as a help defender because of his better mobility. Jokic is a plodding big that rarely even dunks.

I agree with you though in that I don't really buy into the idea that there is a specific archetype that you look for. People look for trends, but it really just comes down to what you can and can't do and how good you are at what you do well.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#56 » by Solid Snake » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:40 pm

Vuc is probably coming back I think Ross is too but the price has to be right. I think they'll work something out, Alex Martins won't let us go back to tanking after 7 year rebuild. Bamba isn't ready yet to take over so he needs a bit more time in the oven. We need someone like Ross off the bench but we shouldn't overpay especially if Lou Williams is making 8 million and he's better than Ross all day long.

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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#57 » by Xatticus » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:45 pm

tiderulz wrote:
JordanBPeterson wrote:I took an interest in the Magic this year because I had Gordon on my fantasy and actually bet on a number of games that the Magic actually covered.

If you'll forgive me for intruding on the conversation - I thought there might be the off chance some of you might be temporarily interested (even if only for a minute) what someone like me - who has no emotional connection to any player on the Magic roster - would do this offseason.

I would start by letting Vuc and Ross walk. They're both fine players but ultimately they're not going to move the needle for you in any meaningful way; the one caveat is if Vuc is really generous and agrees to come back for Mozgov money (unlikely to happen I know but its a caveat afterall) otherwise you immediately move in a different direction.

Secondly, offer Brogdon a contract that will make it very difficult for Bucks to match (they're 99% likely to match anything but you have to try) you want to do everything you can to lure this kid over and make him the guy going forward. He is the best insurance policy in case the Fultz experiment goes to ****. Best case scenario if Fultz works-out then you have two awesome guards to lead the backcourt and then you basically won't have to worry about that area for a long while. Other options would be DRose who's another guard who would be a perfect mentor for Fultz.

You're stuck with Fournier for the foreseeable future I'm afraid but at least you don't have to obsess over shooting - with Ross gone I'd simply have Gordon take more shots over 36 min per instead of 33.

Lastly get Deandre Jordan to come over to just help with rebounding on a fair deal.

Basically you're playing a hand wherein you're betting long on Gordon, Fultz, Issac and Bamba - if two of those guys pan-out then you're very close to making a run without having to endure another rebuild.

You want to salvage the good pieces you have and build slowly that way but without giving money to players that aren't going to do much for you. Vuc is a classic situation where its very tempting to pay a guy with such great production but its not the production you really need to get the team moving in the direction you want it go.

the only way we get Brogdan from Milwaukee is offering him stupid money. And offering stupid money to a role player is a recipe for disaster. And he has shown he is not a PG, so if Fultz doesnt work out, then no he is not really insurance for him. and having Gordon take more shots is not a good thing.


Brogdon makes little sense to me; especially if it comes at the expense of Vucevic. Brodgon excels away from the ball. He lacks the explosiveness to get anywhere with his dribble. He has proven himself an exceptional shooter and he can finish around the basket if he can get the edge on the defender. He looks like a better and more physical version of Fournier. He is a nice player, but he isn't going to run your offense.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#58 » by tiderulz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:49 pm

Xatticus wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
orthoman wrote:Vucevic has to go. He has been pitiful in this series.
Much too slow and methodical.

so how does Denver win? Jokic just as slow if not slower.


He is definitely slower and less athletic than Vucevic, but he is superior in almost every other way. He is much more physical and capable of backing people down. Vucevic seldom improves his position after he receives the ball. Smaller players can even dislodge him and push him away from the basket after he catches the ball. Jokic has much better handles and can use it to work his way to the basket. He is a better and more dynamic shooter in that Vucevic is really just a set shot specialist. Jokic can initiate and finish through contact. He is much better at getting to the free throw line. He is a vastly superior passer. Vucevic reads the game, but Jokic sees the floor. I'd give Vucevic the edge as a help defender because of his better mobility. Jokic is a plodding big that rarely even dunks.

I agree with you though in that I don't really buy into the idea that there is a specific archetype that you look for. People look for trends, but it really just comes down to what you can and can't do and how good you are at what you do well.

they are about even at 3 pt shot, Vuc is a better rebounder, maybe even better defender. their PER36 stats very similar. Jokic a much better passer.
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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#59 » by IllMagic04 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Depending on Fultz is like depending on a lottery ticket to pay your bills. We need a better plan than that. I dont see the bright future. Theres def somethings to be excited about though.

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Re: The Future is bright 

Post#60 » by Max Power » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:16 pm

I think the future of the team is bright. The way the playoffs went hurt but it’s just another step teams make to getting to contendership. This Toronto team that beat us was probably once a lower seed that got blasted in the first round. The Bucks are a prime example, as are the Denver Nuggets.

With that said, this team absolutely is still a work in progress. The Magic need a few things to get past a team like the Raptors in the future. They’ll start addressing their weaknesses, which were glaring in the off-season.

Keeping Vuc and Ross are important, but I wouldn’t mortgage the future to keep them if maybe we can grab a superstar by letting them go. I think letting them walk in order to develop the rest of the roster is a major step backwards. Most of our roster outside of those two are not big enough threats offensively to build around. In all honesty, we need to start looking at trades and trying to hit on a mid first round gem in order to have significant improvement next year. I think packaging Fournier and perhaps Gordon and Birch could land us a good starting fringe all star type player. I’m not necessarily advocating a Gordon trade, but it’s good to at least keep your options open. As for Fournier, most know my feelings on him, it’s time to move on from him, but he did play very well the last month of the regular season and really helped the playoff push.

I think some pieces in house can certainly help our team, a healthy Mo Bamba could have been very useful against the Raptors. Next year I expect he’ll be a bigger contributor once the game slows for him like it did for Jonathan Issac this season. I expect Issac to blossom next season, he improved a lot in year 2. I also have hopes for Markelle Fultz to become a contributor. If he becomes the player predicted when he was drafted than WeHam should get Executives of the Year next year, but realistically if Fultz becomes a reliable bench piece in year 1 with us that’s a win. A 10ppg 4apg season from Fultz would make me very happy. I think we’ll be saying goodbye to guys like Wes Iwundu and Jarrell Martin, although Martin is an intriguing prospect to me still, I wish he had played more this year. I’ve never been a fan of Iwundu. We can draft a guy to do what he does who’ll probably shoot better.
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