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Why aren't we running the offense thru AG?

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Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#1 » by SHAQ32 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:46 am

Especially when it works.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#2 » by JF5 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:34 am

SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.


He's not good enough. He did have that 16 points in a quarter but it seemed they were more than willing to let him score because he wasn't really getting anyone else involved. Granted the scoring from him was needed but the Raptors would rather let him get off rather than Vucevic.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#3 » by SOUL » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:41 am

JF5 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.


He's not good enough. He did have that 16 points in a quarter but it seemed they were more than willing to let him score because he wasn't really getting anyone else involved. Granted the scoring from him was needed but the Raptors would rather let him get off rather than Vucevic.


Ehhh.. I don't agree. He said running it through AG, not making it so that he is the 1st option. But at this point, he is our best option. DJ damn sure isn't getting it done, Fournier is too streaky to depend on to handle the ball and make the correct reads with consistency, and Vuc, while being a good passer, simply isn't getting it done with the attention he's getting (which isn't his fault) and the decision making (which is his fault) so far this series.

Also if he's not good enough, who is? What else is working?
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#4 » by JF5 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:57 am

SOUL wrote:
JF5 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.


He's not good enough. He did have that 16 points in a quarter but it seemed they were more than willing to let him score because he wasn't really getting anyone else involved. Granted the scoring from him was needed but the Raptors would rather let him get off rather than Vucevic.


Ehhh.. I don't agree. He said running it through AG, not making it so that he is the 1st option. But at this point, he is our best option. DJ damn sure isn't getting it done, Fournier is too streaky to depend on to handle the ball and make the correct reads with consistency, and Vuc, while being a good passer, simply isn't getting it done with the attention he's getting (which isn't his fault) and the decision making (which is his fault) so far this series.

Also if he's not good enough, who is? What else is working?


I'm not going to disagree with you on him getting shots. But for a team that is predicated on ball movement AG doesn't have the handle/playmaking ability to make himself a triple threat option that DJ/Evan are more capable of. That's why its hard to say run more actions through him because it will hurt the team more than help. Though everyone outside of Gordon is struggling to shoot you can't deviate from a system that got you this far.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#5 » by Rainwater » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 am

SOUL wrote:
JF5 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.


He's not good enough. He did have that 16 points in a quarter but it seemed they were more than willing to let him score because he wasn't really getting anyone else involved. Granted the scoring from him was needed but the Raptors would rather let him get off rather than Vucevic.



Also if he's not good enough, who is? What else is working?


And that is what has exposed the Magic. There is really nothing that can work, lol.

Tor will allow AG to do his thing as long as they stop Vuc nothing eles really matters. Pretty certain that Tor is not worried that AG is going to drop 25 again, he is not that type of player, and even if he did where is the help going to come from if it isn't Vuc. Magic have lived and died by Vuc and Tor knows this. Outside of he and Ross everybody has been inconsistent and lack the ability to create all year long.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#6 » by Bensational » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:02 am

AG leads the team in PPG and APG so far this series. Whilst he's not the guy you wouldn't want shouldering that load, he's doing the best job of it out of every player we've got. Definitely worth playing into that more.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#7 » by Bensational » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:05 am

JF5 wrote:
SOUL wrote:
JF5 wrote:
He's not good enough. He did have that 16 points in a quarter but it seemed they were more than willing to let him score because he wasn't really getting anyone else involved. Granted the scoring from him was needed but the Raptors would rather let him get off rather than Vucevic.


Ehhh.. I don't agree. He said running it through AG, not making it so that he is the 1st option. But at this point, he is our best option. DJ damn sure isn't getting it done, Fournier is too streaky to depend on to handle the ball and make the correct reads with consistency, and Vuc, while being a good passer, simply isn't getting it done with the attention he's getting (which isn't his fault) and the decision making (which is his fault) so far this series.

Also if he's not good enough, who is? What else is working?


I'm not going to disagree with you on him getting shots. But for a team that is predicated on ball movement AG doesn't have the handle/playmaking ability to make himself a triple threat option that DJ/Evan are more capable of. That's why its hard to say run more actions through him because it will hurt the team more than help. Though everyone outside of Gordon is struggling to shoot you can't deviate from a system that got you this far.


This is inaccurate, because AG has been doing that, and he's been doing it better than both Fournier and DJ. AG has done our best work at attacking the paint and then finding the open man. He's been responsible for getting Vuc some of his few good looks. His handles and passing have served him fine so far.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#8 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:19 am

We tried it, last year.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#9 » by SOUL » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:24 am

pepe1991 wrote:We tried it, last year.


But what's that have to do with this year's playoff and year as a whole where he is a better playmaker?
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#10 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:48 am

SOUL wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:We tried it, last year.


But what's that have to do with this year's playoff and year as a whole where he is a better playmaker?


Beacause title is " why aren't we running the offense thru AG" ,and answer is simple, we did- last year, we sucked while doing so.

He is better , improved passer, not playmaker. He doesn't create for others in sense he gets ball, engages offense through pick&roll and passes to open guys.
Most of his assists are simple repost passes to Vuc, or ballswings to open man.

In general Vučević and Gordon have been , with Ross by far the best part of Magic season. Just look at this

What’s perhaps most interesting is how much better A.G. shoots the 3-ball when Vooch feeds him the ball before the shot. Overall, Gordon is shooting 34.2 percent from downtown this season. However, when the Magic’s All-Star center dishes it to him, he is shooting 46.9 percent from beyond the arc.


IMO ( and it's kind a quantifiable) , Magic main issuse are:
-SF who is actually PF and who gets ignored by defense ,yet can't make open shots or score in general
- lack of ballhandling from other players
- lack of high BBIQ players with advanced offense

Replace Isaac with Tatum or Evan for McCullum or DJ with any starting level PG, hell even some less "sexy" names like Harris, Eric Gordon, Bogdanovic,Spencer Dinwiddie and Magic would have been 48-49 wins team, especially if Bamba was red-shirted from day one.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#11 » by Last Guardian » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:44 pm

In general he hasn't been good enough, but this series could be a starting point for him. Definitely been the best offensive player and making the best passes of anyone. There is a case to do it next season, but no reason to complain about not having done it already.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#12 » by Def Swami » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:40 pm

I don't know about "running the offense thru" him, but he should be a more valuable weapon as a screener in pick n' roll game. I wish we would use him more like Draymond Green. The difference between AG from last year and this year is that I think AG is more amenable to that role and understands how more important that role is. We tried to treat AG like Paul George last year and that's just not his game and that's okay.

We rarely used him in pick n' roll action this season. Augustin and Vucevic owned it among starting lineups. And when Gordon was featured in those bench units, he's running it with guards (Grant, Briscoe, MCW) who can't really shoot, hurt you off the bounce, or make great passes.

Improving the offense really comes down to the same thing it did before the season started. We need better playmaking and shooting out of the backcourt. But, I do think a full season of good Aaron Gordon basketball and a better understanding of his own game will give Clifford more trust going forward to use Gordon more.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#13 » by Anti Chalmers » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:33 pm

At this point you have to try something else. He’s been our best player this series while having to deal with kawhi.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#14 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:00 pm

SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.

Wait...It WORKS?!?! When has it ever worked?

Anti Chalmers wrote:At this point you have to try something else. He’s been our best player this series while having to deal with kawhi.

Toronto would send us a thank you note if we run our offense through Gordon. He’s not a scorer and doesn’t attract enough attention to run an NBA offense through him.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#15 » by SOUL » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:05 pm

Loser mentality is going back to the same well just because you like a player/dislike another player on the team.. kinda shows where your allegiances lie when you're questioning going to a player that is actually getting it done in the playoffs. Thank God that coaches are paid to adjust and not do that though.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#16 » by SOUL » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:07 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:Especially when it works.

Wait...It WORKS?!?! When has it ever worked?

Anti Chalmers wrote:At this point you have to try something else. He’s been our best player this series while having to deal with kawhi.

Toronto would send us a thank you note if we run our offense through Gordon. He’s not a scorer and doesn’t attract enough attention to run an NBA offense through him.


Keep going to Vuc vs Gasol with DJ dribbling in circles!

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Realistically nothing is probably going to beat Toronto but damn.. gotta try something. Especially if running it through Gordon more often can get other players better positioning if he's drawing more attention than DJ who is solely getting locked down by Green.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#17 » by Knightro » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:35 pm

Gordon isn't a good enough ball handler or shooter to be a primary offensive option for any NBA team. He's just not. Most of his success this series has stemmed from the fact that Toronto is specifically tailoring their defense to stop Vucevic and Ross and generally ignoring/shading off everyone else.

Toronto has mostly left Gordon alone. He's seen his defender routinely help off him and generally he's been ignored in favor of slanting defenders towards other players. To AG's credit, he's taken advantage of that and has played well.

If the Raptors shifted their focus defensively to Gordon, his numbers would suffer pretty dramatically. But they don't need to because the Magic's success is ultimately tied to Vucevic's production first and Ross' production second and by shutting those two down, the Raptors are pretty much guaranteeing themselves victories regardless of how good Gordon plays.

That said...

AG would almost certainly look better on a different team or in a different system which played with more tempo and more pace to take advantage of his speed, athleticism and passing ability.

The slower the pace is and the more Gordon is asked to beat people with skill and execution, the less effective he'll be.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#18 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:14 pm

I don't know about running the offense through AG but he certainly looks better than most players in this series when he's more involved. I trust his decision making over Evan's or DJ's.

Outside of that, I do wonder why AG has such a hard time getting any respect on this forum.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#19 » by OrlandO » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:36 pm

The real question is why did Ross only take 5 shots in 30 minutes last game.... martin had 5 shots in like 5 minutes. Wtf. Ross should be chucking it up 20 times from 3pt and midrange at this point.
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Re: Why aren't we running the offense thru AG? 

Post#20 » by drsd » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Gordon leads the Magic in playoff PER at 18.73. Augustin is next at 16.36.

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