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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

Moderators: UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird

Should we resign Vuc/Ross

Yes
43
34%
Yes, but just Vuc
9
7%
Yes, but just Ross
51
40%
No
23
18%
 
Total votes: 126

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1121 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:10 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:ezzzp isn't Weltmans nephew...

He's Skiles' son.

J/K :wink:


Haha...I had forgot I used to have Chucky as my profile pic.

I did support him and I though he was turning the team's identity around. I absolutely hated the way he quit.

I thought Skiles did a good job of trying to cleanse the tank culture out of system. For the first time someone had demanded that they value every offensive possession and to play disciplined defense...imagine that. It was working right up to New Years Eve; team was 19-16 and Skiles had been named Coach of the Month...then during that London trip in early January the wheels fell off. My guess is his abrasiveness met pushback from young players who in prior years had never been checked.

Skiles later said that he just didn't want to deal with the attitude of some of the young players. It was clear, he and EP were not on same page. So far it looks like Skiles was right about Payton (and Hezonja).

This WelHam FO, let them both go in their first season of "evaluation." At time, I found it surprising that they essentially gave both away for nothing...but after this season my opinion has shifted that those moves had less to do with skill level, and more to do with the type of culture, chemistry and demeanor of team they are in the process of constructing.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1122 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:18 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Is there a single thing about the Magic that you don't hate? According to you, everything Magic sucks and any player other teams have or move they make is always better than the Magic. Being completely serious. Did one of WelHam abandon you as a child or something?


Incorrect.

I’ve been a fan of the Magic since forever regardless of how poorly constructed the roster might be or their record. There’s nothing I “hate” about the Magic. I live in LA, so you know I get enough **** from their fans out here. As for this current team, I’d say the prospect of Isaac and Bamba are the more intriguing players to me. AG has grown on me more after being skeptical of his game for a while now. This current iteration of the Magic simply isn’t exciting, dynamic, or fun to watch to me. The last time it was we were in the finals, running an incredible offense and defense, predicated on a system that made sense with the roster that was built.

I know you don’t really care, but I decided to actually respond knowing you wouldn’t in the first place. So back to the original question, are you like Weltmans nephew or something?


Mate you’re wasting your time. Everything is “Sunshine & Unicorns”


BS...You and MagicMattic's addiction to losing and endless fantasizing about a team composed of all rookies with "potential" has you thinking that anyone who isn't endlessly coveting what others have - and is actually enjoying a playoff run - equals them only seeing "sunshine and unicorns."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1123 » by fendilim » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:18 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:ezzzp isn't Weltmans nephew...

He's Skiles' son.

J/K :wink:


Haha...I had forgot I used to have Chucky as my profile pic.

I did support him and I though he was turning the team's identity around. I absolutely hated the way he quit.

I thought Skiles did a good job of trying to cleanse the tank culture out of system. For the first time someone had demanded that they value every offensive possession and to play disciplined defense...imagine that. It was working right up to New Years Eve; team was 19-16 and Skiles had been named Coach of the Month...then during that London trip in early January the wheels fell off. My guess is his abrasiveness met pushback from young players who in prior years had never been checked.

Skiles later said that he just didn't want to deal with the attitude of some of the young players. It was clear, he and EP were not on same page. So far it looks like Skiles was right about Payton (and Hezonja).

This WelHam FO, let them both go in their first season of "evaluation." At time, I found it surprising that they essentially gave both away for nothing...but after this season my opinion has shifted that those moves had less to do with skill level, and more to do with the type of culture, chemistry and demeanor of team they are in the process of constructing.
skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1124 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:33 pm

fendilim wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:ezzzp isn't Weltmans nephew...

He's Skiles' son.

J/K :wink:


Haha...I had forgot I used to have Chucky as my profile pic.

I did support him and I though he was turning the team's identity around. I absolutely hated the way he quit.

I thought Skiles did a good job of trying to cleanse the tank culture out of system. For the first time someone had demanded that they value every offensive possession and to play disciplined defense...imagine that. It was working right up to New Years Eve; team was 19-16 and Skiles had been named Coach of the Month...then during that London trip in early January the wheels fell off. My guess is his abrasiveness met pushback from young players who in prior years had never been checked.

Skiles later said that he just didn't want to deal with the attitude of some of the young players. It was clear, he and EP were not on same page. So far it looks like Skiles was right about Payton (and Hezonja).

This WelHam FO, let them both go in their first season of "evaluation." At time, I found it surprising that they essentially gave both away for nothing...but after this season my opinion has shifted that those moves had less to do with skill level, and more to do with the type of culture, chemistry and demeanor of team they are in the process of constructing.
skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha
I'm still not sold on Tobias either.

If someone gives him the max I think they regret it.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1125 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:49 pm

fendilim wrote:skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha


For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1126 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2019 6:13 pm

ezzzp wrote:
fendilim wrote:skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha


For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.


totally disagree. The front office had just given Tobias a new contract, they wouldnt have soured on him in a couple of months and traded him unless Skiles was adamant that he be moved. And Gordon didnt make him expendable, they both could have played. Harris was already working his game to be more SF than PF, and was already and still is a much more offensive capable player than Gordon is.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1127 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:19 pm

I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade mostly because return in trade, Ilyasova and Jennings, two Skiles ex players.

But also i think Hennigan got scared because he gave Harris big deal and he didn't live up to his contract ( actually he played the same as year before... But whatever ).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1128 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:28 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade mostly because return in trade, Ilyasova and Jennings, two Skiles ex players.

But also i think Hennigan got scared because he gave Harris big deal and he didn't live up to his contract ( actually he played the same as year before... But whatever ).

he had barely played. and Skiles had him playing a different role right after signing the new contract. focusing more on defense and less on offense.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1129 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:35 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade mostly because return in trade, Ilyasova and Jennings, two Skiles ex players.

But also i think Hennigan got scared because he gave Harris big deal and he didn't live up to his contract ( actually he played the same as year before... But whatever ).

he had barely played. and Skiles had him playing a different role right after signing the new contract. focusing more on defense and less on offense.


Well to be fair to Skiles he tried to impliment some sort of offense, and improved it from 101,6 OBPM to 105,1 .
He shifted offense more toward Evan and Oladipo , but,as we learned later, was forced to play Elf who he really didn't like.

In retrospective, if Hennigan had less blind love toward Elf, Magic could play Dipo- Evan- Harris- Gordon- Vuc type of lineup ,who had really nice potential. Oh well.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1130 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:55 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
fendilim wrote:skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha


For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.


totally disagree. The front office had just given Tobias a new contract, they wouldnt have soured on him in a couple of months and traded him unless Skiles was adamant that he be moved. And Gordon didnt make him expendable, they both could have played. Harris was already working his game to be more SF than PF, and was already and still is a much more offensive capable player than Gordon is.


It could've been Tobias who soured on the Magic. I remember it being close to the time that we started falling out of the playoff race when he was traded and the Pistons were thought to be a better situation. Frye probably secretly requested a trade too.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1131 » by drsd » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade ...


When I read about "Harris for Max deals", trading him out was good for Orlando.
(My opinion: we can argue about keeping Fournier vs. keeping Oladipio - it could only be one not the other; but letting Harris walk was always an obvious result).

Harris' departure from Orlando has had no result. AND: he would be redundant to Gordon.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1132 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:05 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade ...


When I read about "Harris for Max deals", trading him out was good for Orlando.
(My opinion: we can argue about keeping Fournier vs. keeping Oladipio - it could only be one not the other; but letting Harris walk was always an obvious result).

Harris' departure from Orlando has had no result. AND: he would be redundant to Gordon.


Meh, i think Harris could play well with Gordon ,especially because 5 years later Gordon still isn't better player.

In general why give guy big contract if you don't want him or you think he's overpayed ? Especially because every fool knew at times that new CBA will expend salary cap and that contract will have no consequences on your flexibility after one season.

Just goes to show you how bad Hennigan was at his job.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1133 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:07 pm

btw there are new reports saying Kemba will stay with Hornets
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1134 » by drsd » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:17 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Meh, i think Harris could play well with Gordon ,.


I do not agree,.

Isaac and Gordon work because they compliment. Harris and Gordon are redundant players in my opinion,.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1135 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:22 pm

pepe1991 wrote:btw there are new reports saying Kemba will stay with Hornets

Shocking. He wants to make the most money possible and can still ask out if he signs.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1136 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:34 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Meh, i think Harris could play well with Gordon ,.


I do not agree,.

Isaac and Gordon work because they compliment. Harris and Gordon are redundant players in my opinion,.


I don't think Gordon and Isaac work well, matter of fact they bot get ignored as offensive threats and that was on display in playoffs.
You can see that when you see what happends when one of them is replaced by Ross . In both cases (Ross and Isaac and Ross and Gordon) net rating is higher.

But i have no desire to argue about Gordon ,potential, fits and all that stuff .
My point is that Harris was on ok deal, he was overpayed for what he was, but in same time team was not under any pressure to do something as stupid as they ended up doing. Ilaysova and Jennings and not even pick in return? Horrid.
As for logjams with him and Gordon, if you go through 2 men lineups , Gordon and Harris had better net rating than Gordon and Evan. Hezonja had net rating with Harris and Oladipo of +7 when he pretty much played " point guard" . Not because Hez was good, but because team simply didn't need somebody to manipulate ball.

That brings me back to my orginal point, Magic under Skiles didn't need traditional PG , Henningan insisting on playing Elfrid, who was terrible as usual, was reason why Skiles left and why later Hennigan defacto fired himself.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1137 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:40 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:btw there are new reports saying Kemba will stay with Hornets

Shocking. He wants to make the most money possible and can still ask out if he signs.


This happends every year.
" This FA will be huge"... 3 days into FA half of players just resign
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1138 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:46 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade ...


When I read about "Harris for Max deals", trading him out was good for Orlando.
(My opinion: we can argue about keeping Fournier vs. keeping Oladipio - it could only be one not the other; but letting Harris walk was always an obvious result).

Harris' departure from Orlando has had no result. AND: he would be redundant to Gordon.

why would he be redundant with Gordon?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1139 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:49 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
fendilim wrote:skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha


For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.


totally disagree. The front office had just given Tobias a new contract, they wouldnt have soured on him in a couple of months and traded him unless Skiles was adamant that he be moved. And Gordon didnt make him expendable, they both could have played. Harris was already working his game to be more SF than PF, and was already and still is a much more offensive capable player than Gordon is.



No way, many thought Hennigan would just let Tobias walk in FA if he got a big offer and were surprised that they worked out a deal. There was a lot of speculation that Hennigan just didn't want to lose the asset for nothing and would eventually get moved as soon as he became trade eligible. Which he did.

AG and Tobias were considered a bad fit because neither could shoot AND Oladipo and Payton also couldn't shoot. When he was in Orlando, Tobias Harris was a 32% low volume 3pt shooter who couldn't defend either forward position well. What he is now, is not what he was back then.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1140 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:59 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:btw there are new reports saying Kemba will stay with Hornets

Shocking. He wants to make the most money possible and can still ask out if he signs.


This happends every year.
" This FA will be huge"... 3 days into FA half of players just resign


You forgot the prelude of endless posts of fans rationalizing why these players will leave their teams in the first place.
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