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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

Moderators: UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird

Should we resign Vuc/Ross

Yes
43
34%
Yes, but just Vuc
9
7%
Yes, but just Ross
51
40%
No
23
18%
 
Total votes: 126

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1141 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:10 pm

tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I think Skiles had something to do with Harris trade ...


When I read about "Harris for Max deals", trading him out was good for Orlando.
(My opinion: we can argue about keeping Fournier vs. keeping Oladipio - it could only be one not the other; but letting Harris walk was always an obvious result).

Harris' departure from Orlando has had no result. AND: he would be redundant to Gordon.

why would he be redundant with Gordon?


Harris couldn't shoot and just didn't move the ball well back then...plus he couldn't defend either forward position. Maybe with an offensively skilled PG that could have worked enough to let it ride for a bit longer.

Skiles had shifted to playing small ball (EP/Oladipo/Fournier/AG/Vuc) and sped up pace with increased ball movement. Its why some thought EP wasn't being used right by him as Skiles wanted less ball dominance by EP and more ball motion to create shots. He wasn't wrong either, that ended up being where the league shifted for a few years.

The FO blew a good opportunity. Hennigan and Skiles battled over EP and that was at the core of the problem.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1142 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:45 pm

ezzzp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.


totally disagree. The front office had just given Tobias a new contract, they wouldnt have soured on him in a couple of months and traded him unless Skiles was adamant that he be moved. And Gordon didnt make him expendable, they both could have played. Harris was already working his game to be more SF than PF, and was already and still is a much more offensive capable player than Gordon is.



No way, many thought Hennigan would just let Tobias walk in FA if he got a big offer and were surprised that they worked out a deal. There was a lot of speculation that Hennigan just didn't want to lose the asset for nothing and would eventually get moved as soon as he became trade eligible. Which he did.

AG and Tobias were considered a bad fit because neither could shoot AND Oladipo and Payton also couldn't shoot. When he was in Orlando, Tobias Harris was a 32% low volume 3pt shooter who couldn't defend either forward position well. What he is now, is not what he was back then.

who is this "many" you are referring to? i dont remember any of that at all
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1143 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:48 pm

ezzzp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:
When I read about "Harris for Max deals", trading him out was good for Orlando.
(My opinion: we can argue about keeping Fournier vs. keeping Oladipio - it could only be one not the other; but letting Harris walk was always an obvious result).

Harris' departure from Orlando has had no result. AND: he would be redundant to Gordon.

why would he be redundant with Gordon?


Harris couldn't shoot and just didn't move the ball well back then...plus he couldn't defend either forward position. Maybe with an offensively skilled PG that could have worked enough to let it ride for a bit longer.

Skiles had shifted to playing small ball (EP/Oladipo/Fournier/AG/Vuc) and sped up pace with increased ball movement. Its why some thought EP wasn't being used right by him as Skiles wanted less ball dominance by EP and more ball motion to create shots. He wasn't wrong either, that ended up being where the league shifted for a few years.

The FO blew a good opportunity. Hennigan and Skiles battled over EP and that was at the core of the problem.

he started shooting the 3 ball better and is a better 3 pt shooter than AG. and he was playing great defense that year with Skiles before he was moved. Gordon fans kept trying to say that Harris was holding AG back. AG was holding AG back, with his lack of offensive skills. He still is a bit offensively challenged. 5 years later, people still keep talking about AG reaching his potential. AG and Harris started together a lot
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1144 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:02 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:Harris couldn't shoot and just didn't move the ball well back then...plus he couldn't defend either forward position. Maybe with an offensively skilled PG that could have worked enough to let it ride for a bit longer.

Skiles had shifted to playing small ball (EP/Oladipo/Fournier/AG/Vuc) and sped up pace with increased ball movement. Its why some thought EP wasn't being used right by him as Skiles wanted less ball dominance by EP and more ball motion to create shots. He wasn't wrong either, that ended up being where the league shifted for a few years.

The FO blew a good opportunity. Hennigan and Skiles battled over EP and that was at the core of the problem.


he started shooting the 3 ball better and is a better 3 pt shooter than AG. and he was playing great defense that year with Skiles before he was moved. Gordon fans kept trying to say that Harris was holding AG back. AG was holding AG back, with his lack of offensive skills. He still is a bit offensively challenged. 5 years later, people still keep talking about AG reaching his potential. AG and Harris started together a lot


They really didn't play together all that much:

14-15: (316 total minutes) 95.0 ORtg / 102.5 DRtg / -7.6 NETRtg

15-16: (394 total minutes) 97.6 ORtg / 101.7 / - 4.1 NETRtg

Offensively it was ugly...you're not wrong that a lot of that was AG. It also didn't help that the PG/SG spots couldn't shoot.

Zach Lowe wrote an informative article on him that summer. Here is a quote from Harris:

Tobias Harris knows the bad things people say about him, and he knows why some teams that considered chasing him in free agency backed off. “It’s always, ‘Oh, why doesn’t he pass more?’” Harris says, acknowledging he assisted on fewer than 10 percent of Orlando’s buckets while on the floor — one of the lowest assist rates in the league for a high-usage player. “And everybody wants to talk about my defense. I’m not the best defensive player. I’m not gonna tell it to you like that. But if we were winning more games, people would talk about me differently.”


Its an interesting look into the Magic at that time: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-good-the-bad-and-the-tobias/
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1145 » by Xatticus » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:15 am

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:btw there are new reports saying Kemba will stay with Hornets

Shocking. He wants to make the most money possible and can still ask out if he signs.


This happends every year.
" This FA will be huge"... 3 days into FA half of players just resign


There is an obvious incentive for him to stay in Charlotte (money). He can sign the contract and then start to agitate for a move at some later point. What I don't understand is... why does Charlotte think that paying him big money is a good idea? That is a team that is desperate for a reinvention. The team is locked into the salary cap and has no means to fix a squad with limited upside. It will be difficult to turn Walker's bloated contract into assets. They should cut their losses and try to fix their mess instead of doubling down on what they have.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1146 » by MagicMatic » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:22 am

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Shocking. He wants to make the most money possible and can still ask out if he signs.


This happends every year.
" This FA will be huge"... 3 days into FA half of players just resign


There is an obvious incentive for him to stay in Charlotte (money). He can sign the contract and then start to agitate for a move at some later point. What I don't understand is... why does Charlotte think that paying him big money is a good idea? That is a team that is desperate for a reinvention. The team is locked into the salary cap and has no means to fix a squad with limited upside. It will be difficult to turn Walker's bloated contract into assets. They should cut their losses and try to fix their mess instead of doubling down on what they have.


Exactly. Kemba and their FO have to know that paying him that kind of money is going to effectively put a cap on what that team can accomplish.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1147 » by darthmerrick » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:49 am

Reading some "sauces" stories on internet brought up some of these interesting tidbits.
Kings may also be looking at Marc Gasol while targeting Vuc. Clippers looking at a number of Big 3 scenarios from Kemba Walker, Khris Middleton, and our Vuc to partner with Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. They are calling teams trying to free up even more space. If Brooklyn lands both Kyrie and KD they will look to sign and trade Dlo, or will not match. Best bet for Magic may be having him sign an offer sheet on day 1 while nets are chasing them. Hawks looking to use assets to move up in draft to 4 or 5. If Kemba leaves Charlotte it will be a fire sell. Magic or another teammay be able to get Lamb or Kaminsky for next to nothing.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1148 » by Magic4champ » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:07 am

With Raptors winning. What we showed up against the eventual champs is respectable. Weham will be prudent to resign both Vooch and TRoss. All things considered in the free agency both players will come back to the Magic more than likely than resettle in another team. Our chances in the free agency even if we overpay is extremely dim. DLo wont be coming and that is a big reality. Financially I am against maximising salary to1 player as this ruins the team flexibility getting role players who will sacrifice for the greater good which is a chance at a championship game. We will get our offensive juggernaut and play maker but it will be thru trade or the high draft. We will be patient. Next year we will be good with the addition of Bamba, Fultz and our 16th1st rd.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1149 » by Nyce_1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:51 am

darthmerrick wrote:Reading some "sauces" stories on internet brought up some of these interesting tidbits.
Kings may also be looking at Marc Gasol while targeting Vuc. Clippers looking at a number of Big 3 scenarios from Kemba Walker, Khris Middleton, and our Vuc to partner with Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. They are calling teams trying to free up even more space. If Brooklyn lands both Kyrie and KD they will look to sign and trade Dlo, or will not match. Best bet for Magic may be having him sign an offer sheet on day 1 while nets are chasing them. Hawks looking to use assets to move up in draft to 4 or 5. If Kemba leaves Charlotte it will be a fire sell. Magic or another teammay be able to get Lamb or Kaminsky for next to nothing.


- Lamb is a FA. I wouldn't mind him here w/wo Ross.
- for nets to sign 2 max guys, they have to renounce DLo, and at that point, they cant S&T him. Their other option is to gut the team to keep DLo; and with that route, why S&T him after gutting the roster?
- for us to give him an offer sheet, we'd have to have the funds free and available. IMO, not smart to do with uncertainty.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1150 » by Bensational » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:22 am

darthmerrick wrote:Reading some "sauces" stories on internet brought up some of these interesting tidbits.
Kings may also be looking at Marc Gasol while targeting Vuc. Clippers looking at a number of Big 3 scenarios from Kemba Walker, Khris Middleton, and our Vuc to partner with Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. They are calling teams trying to free up even more space. If Brooklyn lands both Kyrie and KD they will look to sign and trade Dlo, or will not match. Best bet for Magic may be having him sign an offer sheet on day 1 while nets are chasing them. Hawks looking to use assets to move up in draft to 4 or 5. If Kemba leaves Charlotte it will be a fire sell. Magic or another teammay be able to get Lamb or Kaminsky for next to nothing.


Interesting. Clips should be able to find a taker for Gallinari easily enough. Hawks would be smart to take him for a 2020 pick, in the event the Clips miss the FA boat and have to run back a similar team. Clips would probably lottery protect it, knowing that. If the Bulls strike out on the PG they want, Gallo would be a nice addition to their front court, alongside Markkanen and Porter. Shooting out the wazoo - but can they defend?

If I'm D'Lo, I'm not waiting to see if Brooklyn replace me before I sign a deal. I expect him to sort out his contract quickly, and force the Net's hand on signing another FA to make it happen. If the Nets are on the verge of signing Kyrie, I expect them to shop Dinwiddie + Harris to free up the space to sign another max FA before they cut D'Lo loose.

Hornets are going to end up a mess one way or another. Even if it's a fire sale, there's not much on that roster teams will be wanting.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1151 » by fendilim » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:45 am

ezzzp wrote:
fendilim wrote:skiles actually wanted hezonja to play the point and had told hezonja he’d give him a bigger role in his 2nd year.

Skiles was right on EP. but Tobias... haha


For a while there, Skiles had PG rotation of wings Mario Hezonja and Devyn Marble. That wasn't because he wanted to give them a bigger role...it was out of necessity. Skiles was forced to play them at PG because EP went down with injury, CJ Watson had already been lost for the season, and Napier was a total disaster that year.

Skiles did play Hezonja a lot, 19mpg in 79 games. But those were development minutes, not earned minutes. Mario didn't care about playing within either offense or defensive system, just continuously blew it off. That kid was one of the most raw defenders I have seen enter NBA in long time. People would get mad because Skiles would pull him after a FGA, but it was usually because Mario broke the offense...or what would regularly happen once teams saw how bad he was on defense - they would run consecutive plays right at Mario until Skiles mercifully pulled him, sometimes going on runs based purely on just attacking Mario.

Mario improved, but that was because Skiles was getting him in control...once Vogel arrived, he gave him a quick look and then buried him.

The FO decided on Tobias, not Skiles. They chose to go all in on free agency and made cap clearing moves to free up 3 max slots. Harris was casualty of it because Gordon made him expendable. AG had taken Harris' starting role weeks before Harris was traded. That it was Skiles former players (knew system) was just a bonus + Magic also were in desperate need of PG help with EP hobbled. But the trade was all about cap space, its why the return was so poor and why Frye was salary dumped at same time.

Actually, Robbins reported that Hennigan wanted Hezonja to get more minutes, but Skiles didn`t. In fact, throughout the season, Skiles would pullout Hezonja after one mistake.

Hezonja also said last year that Skiles was already planning to give him a bigger role in his 2nd season, thats why he was caught by surprise when Skiles resigned.

As for Payton, Hennigan wanted Payton, and Skiles didnt really see Payton as a winning PG with how the games are played now.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1152 » by fendilim » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:49 am

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:why would he be redundant with Gordon?


Harris couldn't shoot and just didn't move the ball well back then...plus he couldn't defend either forward position. Maybe with an offensively skilled PG that could have worked enough to let it ride for a bit longer.

Skiles had shifted to playing small ball (EP/Oladipo/Fournier/AG/Vuc) and sped up pace with increased ball movement. Its why some thought EP wasn't being used right by him as Skiles wanted less ball dominance by EP and more ball motion to create shots. He wasn't wrong either, that ended up being where the league shifted for a few years.

The FO blew a good opportunity. Hennigan and Skiles battled over EP and that was at the core of the problem.

he started shooting the 3 ball better and is a better 3 pt shooter than AG. and he was playing great defense that year with Skiles before he was moved. Gordon fans kept trying to say that Harris was holding AG back. AG was holding AG back, with his lack of offensive skills. He still is a bit offensively challenged. 5 years later, people still keep talking about AG reaching his potential. AG and Harris started together a lot

Remember when people were arguing that Tobias stole a rebound from AG? Haha it became such a big deal.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1153 » by ezzzp » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 am

who is this guy...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1154 » by Bensational » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:13 am

ezzzp wrote:who is this guy...

Read on Twitter


Looks like a troll...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1155 » by Tarheel » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:55 am

Bensational wrote:
ezzzp wrote:who is this guy...

Read on Twitter


Looks like a troll...

Read on Twitter


Isn't this the guy who has a radio show and tweets fake rumours so that he has something to talk about?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1156 » by zaymon » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 am

Tarheel wrote:
Bensational wrote:
ezzzp wrote:who is this guy...

Read on Twitter


Looks like a troll...

Read on Twitter


Isn't this the guy who has a radio show and tweets fake rumours so that he has something to talk about?

I remember him from past offseasons, his news were always fake and Beal's agent is Bartelstein.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1157 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:57 am

zaymon wrote:
Tarheel wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Looks like a troll...

Read on Twitter


Isn't this the guy who has a radio show and tweets fake rumours so that he has something to talk about?

I remember him from past offseasons, his news were always fake and Beal's agent is Bartelstein.


Yes. He's a goof. I haven't listened to him in years (now only XM) but his whole premise is comedy. Not really even trying to fool anybody, just trying to stir up interest. He's actually pretty funny but it's a tough character to maintain any longevity. Like Colbert show..."wait, is this guy serious?"
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1158 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:52 am

Cousins 4 points in,19 mins. "Exposed"

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1159 » by Nyce_1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:20 pm

ezzzp wrote:who is this guy...

Read on Twitter
He's a radio co-host in Orlando and a grade-A troll. Don't even follow him.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1160 » by KillMonger » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:48 pm

ezzzp wrote:who is this guy...

Read on Twitter
Brad Beal would be dope as hell but damn it why did it have to be sh*t doctor

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