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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

Moderators: SOUL, Def Swami, UCFJayBird, ChosenSavior, Knightro, Howard Mass

Should we resign Vuc/Ross

Yes
43
34%
Yes, but just Vuc
9
7%
Yes, but just Ross
51
40%
No
23
18%
 
Total votes: 126

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1301 » by MoMM » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:00 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1302 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:06 pm

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
I think we'll be more competitive without Vuc.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1303 » by MoMM » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:09 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
I think we'll be more competitive without Vuc.

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Ok, that's your opinion.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1304 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:09 pm

MoMM wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
MoMM wrote:Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
I think we'll be more competitive without Vuc.

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Ok, that's your opinion.
Yes.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1305 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:11 pm

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.


Both those teams already have ball handlers with high usage. Indy has Dipo and Utah has Mitchell. Yeah dipo is hurt not sure when he’s coming back.

I would think AG Isaac and Bamba would be an exciting group to play with. Young athletic guys who could run a fun pace and work the PnR with multiple options out of it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1306 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:16 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Lol this post and the previous one replying to Ducklett just shows how much of a Vucevic fanboy you are. You are saying Vuc is too important not to resign and that should the FO not retain Vuc, and effectively Ross, it would be considered a “tank”. Hilarious.

You make it sound like Orlando can’t go in an entirely different direction and it would be impossible to build a competitive team without keeping Vuc. Simply not the case. Then you go on to say “if he’s on a decent contract he can eventually be a backup to Bamba” what? You are either delusional in thinking Vuc won’t get a big contract (should he be resigned), or you think having a luxury Center “in a couple years” is a good use of assets and cap space with the amount of perpetuating roster concerns. :lol:

Comedy gold.


What is comedy gold is your reading comprehension and lack of of bbIQ. This is literally the opening sentence to my comment:

"They'd have to trust that they could bring someone in to replace Vucevic's very important role and production."

...AND Duckett's proposal IS a tank. If you surround Gordon, Isaac, Fultz, and Bamba with only two 1st Rd picks and two 2nd round picks and don't add any new contracts (aka minimum non-guaranteed contracts or 1yr vet mercenary deal), including letting Birch and Iwundu go...guess what, that is a Hinkey tank.

LMAO...your anti-Vucevic ridiculousness has you so delirious that you actually think that team isn't going to be a high lottery team.


Yeah the problem with that opening sentence is that I kept reading....LOL

There is, and always will be, a grey area between being a treadmill Vucevic led team and an outright tank. You just see black and white.

Check yourself with the BBallIQ comments. Your views are opinions like everyone else’s on this board. You aren’t displaying some kind of visionary wisdom bereft of contentious speculation. You are coming off like a child with that ****.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1307 » by MoMM » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:18 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.


Both those teams already have ball handlers with high usage. Indy has Dipo and Utah has Mitchell. Yeah dipo is hurt not sure when he’s coming back.

I would think AG Isaac and Bamba would be an exciting group to play with. Young athletic guys who could run a fun pace and work the PnR with multiple options out of it.

Indy could play like Blazers (Lillard + CJ) since most of their frontcourt players don't require a lot of touches (except Sabonis).

As for Utah, they lack a lot of scoring and they already said they will let Rubio leave, so I'm expecting they to go for a high usage PG like Conley, Jrue or DLo.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1308 » by Catledge » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:18 pm

ezzzp wrote:AG ($16.4m)
Bamba ($7.6m)
Fultz Cap Hold $30.5m)
Isaac Cap Hold ($22.1m)

** SNIP **

The Magic would have $30.4m in cap space to fill FIVE more roster spots.


This actually sounds like a pretty good situation whether you want to keep Vooch and/or Ross or not (I hope to keep both).

-- If Fultz is a bust, then we renounce the cap hold and suddenly we have $61m for six spots, which is some extreme flexibility.

--If we end up re-signing Isaac for $20m and Fultz for $15m (if they only become medium-good), then we have $44m for five spots.

-- If we still have Vooch and Ross at a combined $38m, we could renounce Fultz and find ourselves with $22M in cap space with three spots open.

-- If Fultz and Isaac are worthy of contracts close to those cap holds, then we have bird rights on two very good players, possibly (hopefully) in addition to AG, Vooch, and Ross in their primes.

If I'm adding these numbers up right (please correct me if I'm not), then this only reinforces my belief that we should re-sign Vooch and Ross while looking to upgrade the guard positions via draft picks and/or opportunistic trades.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1309 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:19 pm

Bensational wrote:
I don't think there was a proposal to tank. Those are the players we're left with in 2021 if we just let everyone's contracts expire along the way.

If Fultz and Isaac are playing to the level of those cap holds, we would appear to be in a good position. If not, however, their deals might be a lot cheaper than that, or they might not exist anymore. So there's anywhere from $10-50M held up right there.

And if you want to chase a couple of FAs with $30M starting salaries, and two have agreed to come, then you deal with Isaac and Fultz, or consider trading Gordon for the extra space.


Yea it is.

If you only surround Gordon, Isaac, Fultz, and Bamba with two 1st Rd picks and two 2nd round picks and don't add any new contracts (aka minimum non-guaranteed contracts or 1yr vet mercenary deals), including letting Birch and Iwundu go...that is a textbook Hinkey tank.

How many team's are certain that their restricted free agent's are or aren't worth keeping? With few exceptions, that decision is always a gamble. Teams don't just renounce <23 year olds unless they are certain that they suck.

If they are on cheaper contracts, and with the roster construction proposed by Ducklett, that means thats a lottery team...NO way free agents are joining that situation...it will literally be year 10 of a rebuild.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1310 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:26 pm

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.

There is no way. I see a good number of scenarios where even without those two we could field a competitive roster. Some may be less likely than others but I think our young guys developing and taking steps next year could make up for at least some of that loss. Or even a player like Fultz being able to work himself into the rotation and contribute next season would go along way.

Plus you have to consider the fact that we would have money to use in free agency if Vuc/Ross walked in free agency. I'm not saying we would be contenders, but its a pretty big exaggeration to say that we would be locks for a top 5 pick. Depending on how free agency goes the already weak East could take another step back next year if guys like Kemba/Kawai/Kyrie go west.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1311 » by darthmerrick » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:30 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Magic will be better without Vuc next year. I think what we saw from Gordon in the Raptors series shows he's ready to continue to take more of the offense burden and I also expect Issac to take another big leap. If we were to resign Birch and Bamba can get bigger filling out his NBA body we could be really good defensively. Depending on who we add in the draft and Free Agency, I think the offense is going to be more fluid and well balanced --and we will be much better team without Vuc on defensive.

And while I don't expect the next part to happen, imagine if Fultz comes back healthy and starts playing like a #1 overall draft pick.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1312 » by j-ragg » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 pm

I think if Vuc left we'd have to pick up the pace a lot, which hasn't been traditionally something Cliff likes. But it makes the most sense given the roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1313 » by MoMM » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:Plus you have to consider the fact that we would have money to use in free agency if Vuc/Ross walked in free agency.

Not too much, if we renounce everyone (Vuc, Ross, Birch, etc), we would have 20M in cap space and I'm not even counting cap hold for our #16 pick and minimum contracts, it's pretty unlikely to find good replacements for Vuc and Ross with this sum of money.

We could always stretch Moz's contract, which should save around 10M this year (IIRC), but I don't see it as a wise decision as it would impact our cap next season, so I'd prefer to trade him by deadline or simply let it expire.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1314 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:43 pm

Xatticus wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
So, just a little bit of napkin math, in 2021, with AG, Bamba, JI and Fultz Cap holds, our 2019 draft pick, 2020 draft pick, 2 second rounders, and 4 empty cap slots, we are a bit less than 60 million. At the projected 120 million, that would give us about 60 million dollars in free agency. That is a lot of money to throw around if we don't mess up long term salary. I actually have no idea what you are talking about.


That's a tank that you just laid out. I seriously doubt this FO will ever do that.

Also your math is way off:

AG ($16.4m)
Bamba ($7.6m)
Fultz Cap Hold $30.5m)
Isaac Cap Hold ($22.1m)

That alone is $76.6m.

Then you add in 2019 #16, the cap hit for that pick will be $3.4m that summer. So that's $80m.

Then you add in a 2020 1st. Lets be kind to your cause and say its the 15th pick, but realistically its a much higher pick since that team is absolutely a high lottery team. That adds another $3.7m that summer. So that's $83.7m with 4 players + two cap holds.

Then you add in the two second rounders. That adds $1.8m and $1.9m. So now the roster has 6 players and 2 cap holds with a payroll of $87.4m.

The minimum roster during offseason is 12. So you have to add 4 empty roster charges, each $1m.

That brings the payroll to $91.4m. The projected NBA salary cap that summer is $121.8m. The Magic would have $30.4m in cap space to fill FIVE more roster spots. The cheapest "superstar" max salary (for players with less than 6 year's experience) that summer is $30.2m...the max for players with 7-9 years experience is $36.5m...the vet max is $42.6m.

Like I said, the Magic WILL NOT have cap space for a "superstar" with or without Vucevic.

Remember, this was also in a very generous best case scenario; one were we just ignore Birch, Frazier and Iwundu exist; one that we pretend that the Magic do not sign any new contracts over the next 2 years; one were we pretend that the 2nd round picks become rotation level players; the one were we ignore that the following summer Gordon is also an UFA looking for his prime age contract; etc etc etc.

...and ALL that is with the assumption that those 4 core players actually pan out.

This is why I'm all about retaining assets and developing youth in competitive context. Its best case scenario for value of all assets, giving Magic more options for trading if and when that "superstar" becomes available on trade market. Plus competitive context also gives the best shot at retention of that player, and retention of the Magic's own quality players.


You are arguing that we won't have room to sign a max contract free agent in the summer of 2021, even if we do not we re-sign Vucevic, when we only have $25M in committed salary on the books for the period in question? That's absurd. You could've made the same argument regarding Brooklyn just a month ago, but we all know that they now have room for two such contracts if they want to go that route.

Cap holds have a built-in flexibility. Firstly, they can be cleared by simply renouncing the players. Secondly, even if you intend to retain the players, the cap hold seldom reflects the actual value of the contract that they represent. If the actual contract is lower, you can simply get the extension done and clear the difference from the ledger. If the cap hold is lower, you can conduct your other business before working out the extension. Further, there is no value in dumping salary if doing so doesn't actually clear cap space. There is no point in dumping an Allen Crabbe or renouncing a D'Angelo Russell if it doesn't actually clear cap space.

Every contract carries an opportunity cost with it. The bigger the contract is, the larger the cost associated with it. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. This is precisely what concerns people about Vucevic's extension.

We don't have money to spend right now because we decided to give out fat contracts to Fournier and Biyombo in 2016. How many people expected that those decisions are what would prevent us from chasing any of the numerous stars on the market in this summer? They aren't sunk costs, but they are negative assets. We'd have to attach good assets to get off of them.

Vucevic's next contract is going to carry a substantial opportunity cost and there is not a robust market for centers. If it proves to be bad money, then we are likely to be stuck with it as we have been with Fournier and Biyombo/Mozgov. This could prove very problematic if one of our young players actually develops into someone worth building around.

It's not about putting the best players you can on the floor in the short-term. It's about maximizing your finite pool of resources to provide the greatest value over the long-term. This is what Isaiah Thomas and Billy King couldn't understand. This is why they frittered away resources to reel in any big name that came onto the market while ignoring the consequences.


Wrong, cap holds count. If you renounce the player, they are gone. If there is an extension, that salary counts against the cap.

If you renounce Fultz and/or Isaac you don't have 1/4 to 1/2 of the core you just gambled the previous 3 years on AND another 1/4th of that equation hits unrestricted free agency that next summer.

Ducklett's proposal was to not add any new long term salary, let Birch and Iwundu go, and only add draft picks (2 FRP/2 SRP)...aka fill out roster around Fultz/Bamba/AG/Isaac with only minimum non-guarantee players and mercenary vets on 1 yr deals. That is a tank.

If Fultz/Isaac aren't worth extensions or worth keeping their cap holds, then the previous three years are wasted and Gordon is walking. It doesn't matter if you have 5 max spaces...no decent free agent is joining that situation.

That isn't the IT/King scenarios you are trying to compare them to.

As long as his contract stays in the <$25m range, Vucevic contract doesn't destroy the cap, regardless of how much you try to spin that it will. He is the most realistic way of maintaining a competitive baseline. If they don't sign him, there still isn't enough cap to lure a "superstar" which is what Ducklett proposed...and there certainly isn't the appeal for free agents.

Orlando is not Brooklyn. Totally different market context.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1315 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:03 pm

Xatticus wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:



Whatever Vucevic gets paid will be about what he does at the offensive end. It will have very little to do with what he brings at the defensive end or as a rebounder. This is going to shock you... Vucevic is not a great rebounder.

Rebounding does not work how you seem to think it does. A high team DREB% is 75%. A low one is 70%. That's not a large range, but even those numbers can be very misleading as they are heavily influenced by scheme. The more you contest shots at the perimeter, the more offensive rebound opportunities you are going to surrender.

Orlando finished 3rd in defensive rebound percentage, but only 11th overall. This is because they finished 22nd in offensive rebound percentage. We've already talked about this before. This is Clifford's scheme. It manifested in Charlotte as well. On the whole, Orlando only grabbed 50.4% of rebounds this year. That's decidedly average.

Vucevic has never posted a particularly good offensive rebound percentage. Great rebounders do. This is because Vucevic isn't good at going out of his zone to get rebounds, he doesn't read them particularly well, and he isn't good at fighting for them from a disadvantaged position. He also can't linger at the offensive end because he is too slow in transition.

He's just a lumbering, big 7-footer that spends a lot of time in the paint. Everyone that fits that mold finishes with a high DREB%, but that doesn't actually mean that they are good rebounders and it doesn't always manifest in a good team DREB%. For example, Orlando finished 28th in DREB% as recently as last year. Defensive rebounding is largely a product of how you defend and the guy that cleans up most of them is the guy that spends the most time in the paint.


You are in denial. You seriously think that the Magic were a top 8 defense in the NBA and Defensive Rebounding had nothing to do with it? LMAO. This is going to shock you: DREB is literally the last line of defense that ends opposing team possessions. Its one of the most crucial factors in most quality defenses.

FYI, offensive rebounds are dictated by scheme MORE than defensive rebounds. Clifford, like most good defenses, demands his guys to run back and not chase OREB's.

On top of that, a vast amount of Vucevic's time on the offensive end was spent outside the paint, much of it on the perimeter spreading the floor from behind 3pt range or out >16' in PnPops type actions or facilitating from the nail or higher etc. Nearly 40% of his FGA's came from midrange or deeper. Guess what? all that has impact on offensive rebounding.

LMAO that you think all Vucevic does is spend time in the paint...did you even watch the Magic play this year?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1316 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:10 pm

j-ragg wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
So, just a little bit of napkin math, in 2021, with AG, Bamba, JI and Fultz Cap holds, our 2019 draft pick, 2020 draft pick, 2 second rounders, and 4 empty cap slots, we are a bit less than 60 million. At the projected 120 million, that would give us about 60 million dollars in free agency. That is a lot of money to throw around if we don't mess up long term salary. I actually have no idea what you are talking about.


That's a tank that you just laid out. I seriously doubt this FO will ever do that.

Also your math is way off:

AG ($16.4m)
Bamba ($7.6m)
Fultz Cap Hold $30.5m)
Isaac Cap Hold ($22.1m)


Like I said, the Magic WILL NOT have cap space for a "superstar" with or without Vucevic.

I get wanting to make your point, but this is a silly argument to make. As if cap holds are permanent salary for the player lol, we don't even know if Fultz's 12 million dollar option will be picked up. Now we're keeping his 30 million dollar hold on the books? :lol:


What's silly is that you didn't read Ducklett's hypothetical very well as it was for 2021. That meant that the Magic would have already picked up his option. So yea :lol: . My response was to his hypothetical...and yea in that scenario he's made it that far and thus his cap hold would be on the Magic's cap.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1317 » by Solid Snake » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:28 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I can't see scenario where Magic lose Vuc and Ross and are not back in lottery next year.

Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
I think we'll be more competitive without Vuc.

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Well don't leave me in suspense, how do you think we'll be more competitive without vuc? It's easy to say what you said and dip without explaining anything. How will it work, I'm curious?

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1318 » by Def Swami » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:36 pm

Think you guys are arguing semantics on "tanking." The Magic may not be trying to lose on purpose by letting Vucevic and Ross walk, but unless they can add some equivalent offensive talent via trade/free agency, that's a lottery team through and through. It'll just be an objectively bad team.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1319 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:47 pm

Solid Snake wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
MoMM wrote:Lottery? Expect a Top 5 pick for sure (not accounting for ping pong balls).

BTW, if we let Vuc and TRoss go, why do you guys think that DLo will sign with Orlando instead of Indiana or Utah? He will want a competitive team.
I think we'll be more competitive without Vuc.

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Well don't leave me in suspense, how do you think we'll be more competitive without vuc? It's easy to say what you said and dip without explaining anything. How will it work, I'm curious?

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One I think Bamba will end up being a better player. Two Vucevic has a tendency to play for stats rather than play to win. Three some players fold in crunch time and Vuc did that time after time last season. Four we'll be more athletic. Five we'll have more cap flexibility.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#1320 » by ezzzp » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:49 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Solid Snake wrote:


The FO boxed themselves into a corner by never addressing an offense predicated on anyone other than Vuc that they acquired. Point blank, that’s the situation. The Orlando Magic can run a different offense and won’t be “tanking” by giving AG, Isaac, and Fournier more responsibility offensively. Just because we haven’t seen a scheme without Vuc doesn’t mean it would be impossible without him.

NOW after having made that caveat (that for some reason always needs to be stated and prefaced).

The FO does NOT NEED to retain the players at all costs simply because they are currently shouldering the load offensively. That’s the incorrect way of solving the primary issue at hand that they have not addressed alternate ways of distributing the responsibility of an offense.

The only argument to be made would be asset retention with Vucevic. However, that becomes much more difficult to move a Center at a $20+m that thrives only in a system built specifically around him for his entire career. That cost becomes less valuable to teams after he signs his contract.

Ezzp will continue to say **** like “slow and steady growth in a winning context”, which is another way of saying “we won’t be attracting free agents, won’t be utilizing the draft, and we will be watching a decade of Vucevic inspired offense before we ship off some of the younger core in some miraculous franchise altering trade.”

Teams have turned around in a quicker amount of time by forgoing systems that are clearly flawed, one dimensional, and ultimately lead nowhere. We aren’t talking about a team with multiple allstars that are underachieving based on their talent level. We are talking about a team that was proud of their main scoring option for years finally making an allstar reserve appearance after taking 17-18 fga per game while people cry about how necessary he is to the team’s future success. Give me a break.


WRONG...we literally have seen it.

The DJ/Fournier/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba lineup had an ORtg of :lol: 92.3 and a DRtg of 140.7 for a whopping :o -48.4 NETRtg. Clifford tried it in 4 different games and only kept it on floor for 13 minutes for obvious reasons: it was AWFUL.

When Vucevic was on the court, the Magic had a 109.7 Offensive Rating. When he was off the court, the Magic free fell to a 100.3 Offensive Rating. LMAO that's a 9.4 differential.

That's before even mixing in that Ross will more than likely walk if Vucevic leaves. Its mind boggling how distorted your anti-vucevic filter stops you from seeing the obvious.

Slow and steady growth in a winning context DOES NOT mean we won't be attracting free agents. A competitive context is literally the second most important factor (behind $) for the vast majority of free agents.

Slow and steady growth in a winning context DOES NOT mean we won't be utilizing the draft. The Magic have ALL their draft picks AND this FO has a proven track record of finding good players everywhere in the draft.

Slow and steady growth in a winning context DOES NOT mean we will be watching a decade of Vucevic inspired offense. It means that the offensive load will be sustained by Vucevic until the core develops their offensive skills enough to carry it. Not to mention, his contract is likely 4 years.

FYI this approach you laugh at is the philosophy of the best and smartest franchises that aren't major market /destination cities.

Teams that turn it around quickly do it because they draft an instant game changer, trade for an instant game changer or add an instant game changer in FA. None of those are likely for the Magic's current draft context or cap context or roster context or market context. It doesn't matter how much anyone cries about it, its not changing the reality of it.

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