Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

Nyce_1 · Post #1941 » by **Nyce_1** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:08 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:New Vid...

Watch on YouTube

So excited for this kids future! He's on the up and up!

Man, he can be so **** good. Special blend of talent & skill. We're lucky.

Post #1942 » by **Knightro** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:28 pm

tiderulz · Post #1943 » by **tiderulz** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:29 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
No max is needed to acquired Brogdan. He's solid for what he's brought to the court and all. The guy isn't a superstar level talent. He's more of a borderline starter/bench player at best.

huh? borderline starter at best? i may not see star, but he is definitely good enough to be a legit starter

Personally, I don't see any player who is not a Star deserving the max.

i agree with that statement, but when trying to steal a player away from another team, you almost always have to overbid. Not sure if Brogdon is that guy to do it on personally, but i just took issue with calling him a borderline starter.

The Real Dalic · Post #1944 » by **The Real Dalic** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:35 pm

Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Great! I'm a big Iwundu fan.

Post #1945 » by **SD2042** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:48 pm

tiderulz wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:huh? borderline starter at best? i may not see star, but he is definitely good enough to be a legit starter

Personally, I don't see any player who is not a Star deserving the max.

i agree with that statement, but when trying to steal a player away from another team, you almost always have to overbid. Not sure if Brogdon is that guy to do it on personally, but i just took issue with calling him a borderline starter.

Since you're taking an issue with this. How about you share your reasons why I could be wrong here.

tiderulz · Post #1946 » by **tiderulz** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:54 pm

SD2042 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Personally, I don't see any player who is not a Star deserving the max.

i agree with that statement, but when trying to steal a player away from another team, you almost always have to overbid. Not sure if Brogdon is that guy to do it on personally, but i just took issue with calling him a borderline starter.

Since you're taking an issue with this. How about you share your reasons why I could be wrong here.

1 - eye test alone showed Milwaukee played a lot better with Brogdon on the court.

2 - as a starter (and at less than 30 mpg) he put up 50+ fg%, 40+ 3 pt%, 90+ ft%. PER 17.8. 4.2 OWS, 2.3 DWS

i just dont see how anyone wouldnt think he is a legit starter.

let me turn it around, why dont you think he is a legit starter?

jayrehme · Post #1947 » by **jayrehme** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:04 pm

tiderulz wrote:
SD2042 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i agree with that statement, but when trying to steal a player away from another team, you almost always have to overbid. Not sure if Brogdon is that guy to do it on personally, but i just took issue with calling him a borderline starter.

Since you're taking an issue with this. How about you share your reasons why I could be wrong here.

1 - eye test alone showed Milwaukee played a lot better with Brogdon on the court.

2 - as a starter (and at less than 30 mpg) he put up 50+ fg%, 40+ 3 pt%, 90+ ft%. PER 17.8. 4.2 OWS, 2.3 DWS

i just dont see how anyone wouldnt think he is a legit starter.

let me turn it around, why dont you think he is a legit starter?

Brogdon is the ideal pickup for this team... 3 and d guard entering his prime that can play minutes at PG/SG, doesn't need ball in hands to be affective, not sure how we'd be able to get him though

MoMM · Post #1948 » by **MoMM** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:31 pm

Legit starter? Yes

Max player? No way.

tiderulz · Post #1949 » by **tiderulz** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:38 pm

jayrehme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

Since you're taking an issue with this. How about you share your reasons why I could be wrong here.

1 - eye test alone showed Milwaukee played a lot better with Brogdon on the court.

2 - as a starter (and at less than 30 mpg) he put up 50+ fg%, 40+ 3 pt%, 90+ ft%. PER 17.8. 4.2 OWS, 2.3 DWS

i just dont see how anyone wouldnt think he is a legit starter.

let me turn it around, why dont you think he is a legit starter?

Brogdon is the ideal pickup for this team... 3 and d guard entering his prime that can play minutes at PG/SG, doesn't need ball in hands to be affective, not sure how we'd be able to get him though

ehh, he really cant play PG much. he might have in college, but he is a SG in the NBA

PrimeThyme · Post #1950 » by **PrimeThyme** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:15 pm

Read on Twitter

Wow, looks like he has definitely put on at least some size this summer.

Skin · Post #1951 » by **Skin** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:21 pm

tiderulz wrote:
jayrehme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:1 - eye test alone showed Milwaukee played a lot better with Brogdon on the court.

2 - as a starter (and at less than 30 mpg) he put up 50+ fg%, 40+ 3 pt%, 90+ ft%. PER 17.8. 4.2 OWS, 2.3 DWS

i just dont see how anyone wouldnt think he is a legit starter.

let me turn it around, why dont you think he is a legit starter?

Brogdon is the ideal pickup for this team... 3 and d guard entering his prime that can play minutes at PG/SG, doesn't need ball in hands to be affective, not sure how we'd be able to get him though

ehh, he really cant play PG much. he might have in college, but he is a SG in the NBA

Absolutely untrue. His rookie season he mostly played PG for the Bucks. 55/45 % split. Second season it came down, 40/60 % split. Last season it was close to 10/80/10 % split between PG/SG/SF according to basketball reference.

He can play in exactly the type of way we would need. Part time between the 1 and 2.

My only pause is that he'll be 27 at the start of next season.

Skin · Post #1952 » by **Skin** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:22 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:

Read on Twitter

Wow, looks like he has definitely put on at least some size this summer.

Swole Bamba!

magicman112 · Post #1953 » by **magicman112** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:23 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Great! I'm a big Iwundu fan.

Yes, he played well this season and improved he earned it.

MoMM · Post #1954 » by **MoMM** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:26 pm

Some people want to max Brogdon (starter or 6th man), but are not willing to offer 20M/year to Vucevic (allstar). I can't understand.

jayrehme · Post #1955 » by **jayrehme** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:27 pm

magicman112 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Great! I'm a big Iwundu fan.

Yes, he played well this season and improved he earned it.

very solid player and flexible defender, can rotate 1-3

OrlandoNed · Post #1956 » by **OrlandoNed** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:33 pm

MoMM wrote:Some people want to max Brogdon (starter or 6th man), but are not willing to offer 20M/year to Vucevic (allstar). I can't understand.

Because the NBA requires guard and wing talent for success and Orlando's overall guard talent is terrible.

ezzzp · Post #1957 » by **ezzzp** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:55 pm

jayrehme wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
SD2042 wrote:

Since you're taking an issue with this. How about you share your reasons why I could be wrong here.

1 - eye test alone showed Milwaukee played a lot better with Brogdon on the court.

2 - as a starter (and at less than 30 mpg) he put up 50+ fg%, 40+ 3 pt%, 90+ ft%. PER 17.8. 4.2 OWS, 2.3 DWS

i just dont see how anyone wouldnt think he is a legit starter.

let me turn it around, why dont you think he is a legit starter?

Brogdon is the ideal pickup for this team... 3 and d guard entering his prime that can play minutes at PG/SG, doesn't need ball in hands to be affective, not sure how we'd be able to get him though

I like Brogdon a lot, but you have to contextualize every stat he has with Giannis Antetokounmpo.

In Milwaukee, teams send double and triple teams to slow the Greek. Then they worry about Bledsoe's penetration and stay tight on Middleton's all over scoring threat. In the Bucks context, Brogdon is at best the 4th guy on opposing defenses' minds.

In an Orlando context, Brogdon won't have a fraction of the type of space and freedom of movement he has been accustomed to playing with. To clear cap space for Brogdon, the Magic have to renounce Vucevic and Ross. That's Orlando's top two gravity players.

In addition, while Brogdon can start at SG, he isn't a true PG. So, outside of the Fultz mystery, the Magic would still not have a long term answer at PG.

Brogdon plays mostly off ball and usually plays secondary creator...the same role as Fournier. In fact, Fournier has higher AST% than Brogdon (17.6 vs 16.9)...and that's with Brogdon feeding two top tier scorers.

Brogdon and Fournier are the same age, right now neither has that ability to shoot off-the-bounce effectively. That's why neither will likely be primary on-ball guys. Fournier is actually better and he's doing it in a much more difficult Orlando context.

• Last season on pull-up FGA's
Brogdon...overall 13-119 .361 eFG% and 16-60 .267 3P%
Fournier...overall 129-351 .425 eFG% and 40-129 .288 3P%

Where Brogdon excels, is in Catch and Shoot situations

• Last season in Catch and Shoot FGA's
Brogdon...overall 18-184 .712 eFG% and 86-181 .475 3P%
Fournier...overall 122-326 .540 eFG% and 40-129 .288 3P%

BUT this is obviously created by attention created by the Greek etc:

Only TWO of Malcolm Brogdon's 244 three point attempts were defended last season (defined by NBA as having a defender within 4ft). 197 of those looks were taken with the nearest defender at least 6ft away; he shot those a .467 3P%. Interestingly, the 45 were the nearest defender was 4-6ft away, his 3P% free fell to .311

For added context...Fournier on his wide open 3's shot .413 (92-223)...and that's on a career worst shooting season.

So. When gauging what $$$ to offer Brogdon, its important to realize that his numbers were greatly impacted by just getting a lot of easy looks.

Theoretically he would be great in a 3 guard rotation of Fultz/Brogdon/Fournier...BUT its reliant on Fultz becoming a starter.

PG: Fultz / Brogdon
SG: Brogdon / Fournier / Iwundu
SF: Isaac / Fournier / Iwundu / Okeke
PF: Gordon / Okeke
C: Bamba / Birch

On the other hand, if Fultz works then Ross + Vucevic is a more balanced attack and more realistic in free agency

PG: Fultz / DJ
SG: Ross / Fournier / Iwundu
SF: Isaac / Fournier / Iwundu / Okeke
PF: Gordon / Isaac / Okeke
C: Vucevic / Bamba

Basically, Brogdon doesn't fix the PG or primary option problem. The Magic's future would still be highly dependent on the Fultz mystery.

tiderulz · Post #1958 » by **tiderulz** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:58 pm

MoMM wrote:Some people want to max Brogdon (starter or 6th man), but are not willing to offer 20M/year to Vucevic (allstar). I can't understand.

i bet a lot has to do with the position. Wing position is more critical than center in today's NBA.

basketballRob · Post #1959 » by **basketballRob** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Nice wingspan.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

ezzzp · Post #1960 » by **ezzzp** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:59 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
MoMM wrote:Some people want to max Brogdon (starter or 6th man), but are not willing to offer 20M/year to Vucevic (allstar). I can't understand.

Because the NBA requires guard and wing talent for success and Orlando's overall guard talent is terrible.

Yea, but he doesn't really fix that in a way that's worth max $:

Spoiler:

Should we resign Vuc/Ross