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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

Moderators: UCF, UCFJayBird, ChosenSavior, Howard Mass, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami

Should we resign Vuc/Ross

Yes
43
34%
Yes, but just Vuc
9
7%
Yes, but just Ross
51
40%
No
23
18%
 
Total votes: 126

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#521 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 21, 2019 3:33 pm

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Oh man could easily see them holding him out most this year to make sure he’s good for that 4th year. Can you imagine if we accept that 4th year and he can’t log minutes.


Crazy. Nobody would really mind his 4th year option if that was some random $3M salary. But guy will make $12,25M in 4th year ( if picked) ,that's higher than Ross this year, same as Vuc. Because he was 1# overall pick his salary is super high for rookie scale contract.

Our GM wouldn't trade for Fultz if he didn't know what he would do with his Team Option and it's very likely that he has a go-ahead from the office since the trade went down. It's a gamble, but he will go all-in for sure, IMO.

76ers didn't had the luxury to spend more than 10M on Fultz when they have a lot of FAs, but we can have this time and patience.


Yea they did it to save money.
That's probably first time in history that 1# pick was salary dump during rookie contract ( maybe Bennett? )
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#522 » by MoMM » Tue May 21, 2019 4:55 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Crazy. Nobody would really mind his 4th year option if that was some random $3M salary. But guy will make $12,25M in 4th year ( if picked) ,that's higher than Ross this year, same as Vuc. Because he was 1# overall pick his salary is super high for rookie scale contract.

Our GM wouldn't trade for Fultz if he didn't know what he would do with his Team Option and it's very likely that he has a go-ahead from the office since the trade went down. It's a gamble, but he will go all-in for sure, IMO.

76ers didn't had the luxury to spend more than 10M on Fultz when they have a lot of FAs, but we can have this time and patience.


Yea they did it to save money.
That's probably first time in history that 1# pick was salary dump during rookie contract ( maybe Bennett? )

Probably, but it's easier to happen this days than before, because #1 picks has bigger contract nowadays.

For example, D12 made only 6M in his 4th season.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#523 » by flying_mollusk » Tue May 21, 2019 5:15 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Some interesting speculation on the Bill Simmons Podcast by Bill Simmons. Claims that D'Angelo Russell will be in Orlando if Kyrie Irving ends up in Brooklyn. So here's to hoping Irving picks Brooklyn?

Not sure there's any other way for Russell to land in Orlando. Would take some cap maneuvering by the Magic, a max contract by the Magic, and the Nets being okay with not matching. Or the Magic and Nets work a S&T. AG for Russell is the most obvious one that may work.


Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


One option would be to trade Moz to a team that can just absorb his contract and then throw in a protected first rounder to entice that team. I still don't think that is enough to get Russell. With the cap holds for Vuc and Ross, I think we are around 100 million, putting us 9 million under the cap the projected $109 million cap. So we would still have to relinquish the Bird rights to one of those two guys. If we sign Russell, that means we can't go over the cap to sign the player whose Bird rights we relinquished, thereby making them goners.

Another option would be to get a team with cap space to take Fournier from us in exchange for a less protected first rounder AND stretch Mozgov. If we got rid of Fournier's 17 million, that gets us to 9 million under. Stretching Mozgov's 16 million clears an additional 10.6 million from 2019 (still on the hook for 5.3 million). So that gets us to 19.6 million. This still requires us to relinquish Iwundu, Grant, Martin, Birch, and Jefferson. However, minus the the salary of the sixteenth pick, we are at 16 million.

There is a third way to do this. Combine Fournier and DJ to the team eating our salaries. That easily gets us over. If we threw in the 16th pick as enticement, that gets us almost 30 million under the cap (after stretching Mozgov). That would be enough to sign DLo and a little extra to refill the roster (not sure if we get the MLE in this scenario).

If we really wanted to remake this team, I think letting Vooch go, trading Fournier to a team with cap space, and stretching Mozgov would be our best bet. This scenario makes sense if we think Bamba and Birch are the future. We would create a **** ton of space in this scenario. I think around 35 million. That gives us enough to sign Russell and fill out the roster, while keeping DJ.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#524 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 21, 2019 5:26 pm

I feel that there is about a zero chance in hell Brooklyn lets Russell leave, so any ideas about signing him as a Free Agent should be prepared for paying the complete Max then praying that he would choose a 4 year max here over a 5 year max there.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#525 » by MasterGMer » Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 pm

flying_mollusk wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Some interesting speculation on the Bill Simmons Podcast by Bill Simmons. Claims that D'Angelo Russell will be in Orlando if Kyrie Irving ends up in Brooklyn. So here's to hoping Irving picks Brooklyn?

Not sure there's any other way for Russell to land in Orlando. Would take some cap maneuvering by the Magic, a max contract by the Magic, and the Nets being okay with not matching. Or the Magic and Nets work a S&T. AG for Russell is the most obvious one that may work.


Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


One option would be to trade Moz to a team that can just absorb his contract and then throw in a protected first rounder to entice that team. I still don't think that is enough to get Russell. With the cap holds for Vuc and Ross, I think we are around 100 million, putting us 9 million under the cap the projected $109 million cap. So we would still have to relinquish the Bird rights to one of those two guys. If we sign Russell, that means we can't go over the cap to sign the player whose Bird rights we relinquished, thereby making them goners.

Another option would be to get a team with cap space to take Fournier from us in exchange for a less protected first rounder AND stretch Mozgov. If we got rid of Fournier's 17 million, that gets us to 9 million under. Stretching Mozgov's 16 million clears an additional 10.6 million from 2019 (still on the hook for 5.3 million). So that gets us to 19.6 million. This still requires us to relinquish Iwundu, Grant, Martin, Birch, and Jefferson. However, minus the the salary of the sixteenth pick, we are at 16 million.

There is a third way to do this. Combine Fournier and DJ to the team eating our salaries. That easily gets us over. If we threw in the 16th pick as enticement, that gets us almost 30 million under the cap (after stretching Mozgov). That would be enough to sign DLo and a little extra to refill the roster (not sure if we get the MLE in this scenario).

If we really wanted to remake this team, I think letting Vooch go, trading Fournier to a team with cap space, and stretching Mozgov would be our best bet. This scenario makes sense if we think Bamba and Birch are the future. We would create a **** ton of space in this scenario. I think around 35 million. That gives us enough to sign Russell and fill out the roster, while keeping DJ.


My biggest wish is to add a FA while keeping Vuc by resigning him with his bird right. How do we do that?

Instead of going DRussell route, we offer DJ + Founer + our 2019 FRP + our 2020 FRP to Memphis for Mike Conley or NOP for Jure Holiday.

That wise, we can still keep Vuc and Ross. But I know, that is a long shot though
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#526 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
flying_mollusk wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


One option would be to trade Moz to a team that can just absorb his contract and then throw in a protected first rounder to entice that team. I still don't think that is enough to get Russell. With the cap holds for Vuc and Ross, I think we are around 100 million, putting us 9 million under the cap the projected $109 million cap. So we would still have to relinquish the Bird rights to one of those two guys. If we sign Russell, that means we can't go over the cap to sign the player whose Bird rights we relinquished, thereby making them goners.

Another option would be to get a team with cap space to take Fournier from us in exchange for a less protected first rounder AND stretch Mozgov. If we got rid of Fournier's 17 million, that gets us to 9 million under. Stretching Mozgov's 16 million clears an additional 10.6 million from 2019 (still on the hook for 5.3 million). So that gets us to 19.6 million. This still requires us to relinquish Iwundu, Grant, Martin, Birch, and Jefferson. However, minus the the salary of the sixteenth pick, we are at 16 million.

There is a third way to do this. Combine Fournier and DJ to the team eating our salaries. That easily gets us over. If we threw in the 16th pick as enticement, that gets us almost 30 million under the cap (after stretching Mozgov). That would be enough to sign DLo and a little extra to refill the roster (not sure if we get the MLE in this scenario).

If we really wanted to remake this team, I think letting Vooch go, trading Fournier to a team with cap space, and stretching Mozgov would be our best bet. This scenario makes sense if we think Bamba and Birch are the future. We would create a **** ton of space in this scenario. I think around 35 million. That gives us enough to sign Russell and fill out the roster, while keeping DJ.


My biggest wish is to add a FA while keeping Vuc by resigning him with his bird right. How do we do that?

Instead of going DRussell route, we offer DJ + Founer + our 2019 FRP + our 2020 FRP to Memphis for Mike Conley or NOP for Jure Holiday.

That wise, we can still keep Vuc and Ross. But I know, that is a long shot though


Actually, it seems more teams are strengthened like you propose than letting assets walk then trying to outbid other teams on free agents which is a great risk being most teams end up losing both the players they let go and seeing that free agent go elsewhere.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#527 » by flying_mollusk » Tue May 21, 2019 7:17 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
flying_mollusk wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


One option would be to trade Moz to a team that can just absorb his contract and then throw in a protected first rounder to entice that team. I still don't think that is enough to get Russell. With the cap holds for Vuc and Ross, I think we are around 100 million, putting us 9 million under the cap the projected $109 million cap. So we would still have to relinquish the Bird rights to one of those two guys. If we sign Russell, that means we can't go over the cap to sign the player whose Bird rights we relinquished, thereby making them goners.

Another option would be to get a team with cap space to take Fournier from us in exchange for a less protected first rounder AND stretch Mozgov. If we got rid of Fournier's 17 million, that gets us to 9 million under. Stretching Mozgov's 16 million clears an additional 10.6 million from 2019 (still on the hook for 5.3 million). So that gets us to 19.6 million. This still requires us to relinquish Iwundu, Grant, Martin, Birch, and Jefferson. However, minus the the salary of the sixteenth pick, we are at 16 million.

There is a third way to do this. Combine Fournier and DJ to the team eating our salaries. That easily gets us over. If we threw in the 16th pick as enticement, that gets us almost 30 million under the cap (after stretching Mozgov). That would be enough to sign DLo and a little extra to refill the roster (not sure if we get the MLE in this scenario).

If we really wanted to remake this team, I think letting Vooch go, trading Fournier to a team with cap space, and stretching Mozgov would be our best bet. This scenario makes sense if we think Bamba and Birch are the future. We would create a **** ton of space in this scenario. I think around 35 million. That gives us enough to sign Russell and fill out the roster, while keeping DJ.


My biggest wish is to add a FA while keeping Vuc by resigning him with his bird right. How do we do that?

Instead of going DRussell route, we offer DJ + Founer + our 2019 FRP + our 2020 FRP to Memphis for Mike Conley or NOP for Jure Holiday.

That wise, we can still keep Vuc and Ross. But I know, that is a long shot though


Probably letting Ross go or doing a trade like you mentioned. Holiday situation might depend on what Pels do with AD. If they keep AD, I think they keep Holiday.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#528 » by The Real Dalic » Tue May 21, 2019 8:19 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
flying_mollusk wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


One option would be to trade Moz to a team that can just absorb his contract and then throw in a protected first rounder to entice that team. I still don't think that is enough to get Russell. With the cap holds for Vuc and Ross, I think we are around 100 million, putting us 9 million under the cap the projected $109 million cap. So we would still have to relinquish the Bird rights to one of those two guys. If we sign Russell, that means we can't go over the cap to sign the player whose Bird rights we relinquished, thereby making them goners.

Another option would be to get a team with cap space to take Fournier from us in exchange for a less protected first rounder AND stretch Mozgov. If we got rid of Fournier's 17 million, that gets us to 9 million under. Stretching Mozgov's 16 million clears an additional 10.6 million from 2019 (still on the hook for 5.3 million). So that gets us to 19.6 million. This still requires us to relinquish Iwundu, Grant, Martin, Birch, and Jefferson. However, minus the the salary of the sixteenth pick, we are at 16 million.

There is a third way to do this. Combine Fournier and DJ to the team eating our salaries. That easily gets us over. If we threw in the 16th pick as enticement, that gets us almost 30 million under the cap (after stretching Mozgov). That would be enough to sign DLo and a little extra to refill the roster (not sure if we get the MLE in this scenario).

If we really wanted to remake this team, I think letting Vooch go, trading Fournier to a team with cap space, and stretching Mozgov would be our best bet. This scenario makes sense if we think Bamba and Birch are the future. We would create a **** ton of space in this scenario. I think around 35 million. That gives us enough to sign Russell and fill out the roster, while keeping DJ.


My biggest wish is to add a FA while keeping Vuc by resigning him with his bird right. How do we do that?

Instead of going DRussell route, we offer DJ + Founer + our 2019 FRP + our 2020 FRP to Memphis for Mike Conley or NOP for Jure Holiday.

That wise, we can still keep Vuc and Ross. But I know, that is a long shot though

Can't trade 2 FRP in consecutive seasons. Also, that would be an overpay for two PG's in blow-it-up rebuild years. DJ + Fournier should be able to get it done for one of those 2, but I personally wouldn't mind giving them #16 as well to get it done. Especially for Jrue.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#529 » by NotACat » Tue May 21, 2019 8:28 pm

If we don't bring back Vuc, what if we traded Moz for TT? Would Cleveland do that?

It would save us FA money, bring in a player who's won championships, and he would still expire next year. I also think it wouldn't be a big deal for TT if Bamba eventually started. He would definitely hurt our spacing though :/
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#530 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Tue May 21, 2019 8:58 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Some interesting speculation on the Bill Simmons Podcast by Bill Simmons. Claims that D'Angelo Russell will be in Orlando if Kyrie Irving ends up in Brooklyn. So here's to hoping Irving picks Brooklyn?

Not sure there's any other way for Russell to land in Orlando. Would take some cap maneuvering by the Magic, a max contract by the Magic, and the Nets being okay with not matching. Or the Magic and Nets work a S&T. AG for Russell is the most obvious one that may work.


Let Vuc and TRoss walk, waive/buyout Moz and then work a trade for Fournier would clear some cap-space.


Trading Fournier is the ideal situation, but trading Augustine as a pure salary dump will also do the trick and is a lot more feasible.

Renouncing both Vucevic and Ross

Waive and stretching Mozgov

Trade Augustine

Offer DLO the max.

This would leave us with the following.

Russell/Fultz/MCW or Briscoe
Fournier/#16/Frazier?
Isaac/Iwundu/?
Gordon/?/#46
Bamba/Birch/?

Fournier days are numbered and a Russell/Fultz pairing could actually work.

Dont get your hopes up though, it's not an impossible scenario but highly unlikely.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#531 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Tue May 21, 2019 8:59 pm

ezzzp wrote:
taj2133 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This isn't really about Bamba...its about Birch as he's a free agent. They are just researching for potential 2nd rd and G-L/international guys who could step in as 3d C now or in future.


Well he's a RFA and I totally envision us matching any reasonable offer. If Vucevic is out then signing Birch long-term immediately becomes priority.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#532 » by ezzzp » Tue May 21, 2019 10:27 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
taj2133 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This isn't really about Bamba...its about Birch as he's a free agent. They are just researching for potential 2nd rd and G-L/international guys who could step in as 3d C now or in future.


Well he's a RFA and I totally envision us matching any reasonable offer. If Vucevic is out then signing Birch long-term immediately becomes priority.


I don't know, maybe...but lets say Vucevic leaves in FA, do they commit 4 year guaranteed salary to a non shooter like Birch with Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Iwundu as 4 of top 9 rotation. That would commit them to 5 non-to-below average shooters in their rotation. That's going to get real ugly.

The Magic will be desperate for shooting from the 5 to have some semblance of floor spacing.

While I like Birch, if Vucevic leaves, I could see the FO opting for short term money to an experienced vet starter that can shoot from the perimeter.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#533 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Tue May 21, 2019 10:40 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
This isn't really about Bamba...its about Birch as he's a free agent. They are just researching for potential 2nd rd and G-L/international guys who could step in as 3d C now or in future.


Well he's a RFA and I totally envision us matching any reasonable offer. If Vucevic is out then signing Birch long-term immediately becomes priority.


I don't know, maybe...but lets say Vucevic leaves in FA, do they commit 4 year guaranteed salary to a non shooter like Birch with Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Iwundu as 4 of top 9 rotation. That would commit them to 5 non-to-below average shooters in their rotation. That's going to get real ugly.

The Magic will be desperate for shooting from the 5 to have some semblance of floor spacing.

While I like Birch, if Vucevic leaves, I could see the FO opting for short term money to an experienced vet starter that can shoot from the perimeter.


No one is giving Birch a 4 yr deal so I'm not sure where that is coming from lol. It will be similar to San Antonio offering Dedmon a 2yr./6m deal.

You do know as we sit right now Birch is a better overall player then Bamba? I'm not saying to offer him a max, but if Vucevic leaves we literally have no depth at center.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#534 » by ezzzp » Wed May 22, 2019 12:13 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
Well he's a RFA and I totally envision us matching any reasonable offer. If Vucevic is out then signing Birch long-term immediately becomes priority.


I don't know, maybe...but lets say Vucevic leaves in FA, do they commit 4 year guaranteed salary to a non shooter like Birch with Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Iwundu as 4 of top 9 rotation. That would commit them to 5 non-to-below average shooters in their rotation. That's going to get real ugly.

The Magic will be desperate for shooting from the 5 to have some semblance of floor spacing.

While I like Birch, if Vucevic leaves, I could see the FO opting for short term money to an experienced vet starter that can shoot from the perimeter.


No one is giving Birch a 4 yr deal so I'm not sure where that is coming from lol. It will be similar to San Antonio offering Dedmon a 2yr./6m deal.

You do know as we sit right now Birch is a better overall player then Bamba? I'm not saying to offer him a max, but if Vucevic leaves we literally have no depth at center.


Why would Birch sign an offer sheet that was not 4 years? He might as well take his QO and make himself unrestricted which also kicks in a no-trade clause so he could choose his best option next summer.

Dedmon wasn't a Restricted Free Agent, the Magic withdrew their QO and made him unrestricted.

If the Magic don't give Birch a QO then he will also be unrestricted and free to go to whatever team he wants. He'll obviously seek out team that gives him best options of long term security, playing time and $.

You do know that everyone knows that Birch is better than Bamba right now, but that doesn't mean that he is the only one that is, nor does it mean that the Magic are beholden to him if they feel they'll need shooting from the 5. They'll have to re-evaluate what it is they need from the C position. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#535 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed May 22, 2019 12:31 am

ezzzp wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
I don't know, maybe...but lets say Vucevic leaves in FA, do they commit 4 year guaranteed salary to a non shooter like Birch with Fultz/Gordon/Isaac/Iwundu as 4 of top 9 rotation. That would commit them to 5 non-to-below average shooters in their rotation. That's going to get real ugly.

The Magic will be desperate for shooting from the 5 to have some semblance of floor spacing.

While I like Birch, if Vucevic leaves, I could see the FO opting for short term money to an experienced vet starter that can shoot from the perimeter.


No one is giving Birch a 4 yr deal so I'm not sure where that is coming from lol. It will be similar to San Antonio offering Dedmon a 2yr./6m deal.

You do know as we sit right now Birch is a better overall player then Bamba? I'm not saying to offer him a max, but if Vucevic leaves we literally have no depth at center.


Why would Birch sign an offer sheet that was not 4 years? He might as well take his QO and make himself unrestricted which also kicks in a no-trade clause so he could choose his best option next summer.

Dedmon wasn't a Restricted Free Agent, the Magic withdrew their QO and made him unrestricted.

If the Magic don't give Birch a QO then he will also be unrestricted and free to go to whatever team he wants. He'll obviously seek out team that gives him best options of long term security, playing time and $.

You do know that everyone knows that Birch is better than Bamba right now, but that doesn't mean that he is the only one that is, nor does it mean that the Magic are beholden to him if they feel they'll need shooting from the 5. They'll have to re-evaluate what it is they need from the C position. That's all I'm saying.


It won't be like teams are going to line up offering Birch 3 years $15 mil even. He is more of a 3rd stringer who is evolving into a 2nd stringer in most teams eyes. I feel he is worth $5-7 mil per. Git er done!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#536 » by Solid Snake » Wed May 22, 2019 1:07 am

If vuc is still here let birch sign somewhere else, no need for him taking any minutes from bamba we spent a #6 on him. If vuc is gone that's a different story.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#537 » by MasterGMer » Wed May 22, 2019 1:41 am

Was Birch a Undrafted Rookie Free Agent?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#538 » by Nyce_1 » Wed May 22, 2019 3:18 am

MasterGMer wrote:Was Birch a Undrafted Rookie Free Agent?
He was playing in Europe.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#539 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed May 22, 2019 11:26 am

Nyce_1 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:Was Birch a Undrafted Rookie Free Agent?
He was playing in Europe.


He played for Olympicos and Euroleague for like 2 years after leaving college after Junior season to enter NBA draft then not getting selected in draft.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon 

Post#540 » by SOUL » Wed May 22, 2019 6:53 pm

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