ImageImageImageImage

What are your best Fournier trade proposals?

Moderators: ChosenSavior, MagicMadness, SOUL, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami

User avatar
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 14,839
And1: 6,808
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#301 » by Skin » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:39 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Yea, that reason is that Terrence Ross is an unrestricted free agent.

The closest thing to replacing him and his bench scoring is Melvyn Frazier...who btw has fractured in tibia, same thing that kept Bamba and Isaac out a full season.

Plus there is still no longterm solution at PG (outside of Fultz mystery). So just like last year, there is still a need for ball handlers at any of the guards/wings slots.

...and there is still need for shooting on roster (which is usually best found in wing prospects).


Are you referring to when T-Ross leaves when Vuc leaves or is your scenario with T-Ross leaving even after Vuc stays?


No, I'm referring to a FO preparing for their future and current roster context.

Did the Magic need more shooting and ball handling on last year's roster - one which included Vucevic and Ross? YES.

Do the Magic project to need shooting and ball handling on their next year's roster - with or without Vucevic and Ross? YES

Yeah, that's what I thought. There is a DAMN good reason why we are scouring SG prospects. I'll just ignore your post about needing a replacement for Ross since you just backtracked and clarified that we need help with or without him.. and also further confirming that Fournier is clearly insufficient.
Image
ezzzp
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,431
And1: 2,769
Joined: Aug 25, 2009
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#302 » by ezzzp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:12 pm

Skin wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:
Are you referring to when T-Ross leaves when Vuc leaves or is your scenario with T-Ross leaving even after Vuc stays?


No, I'm referring to a FO preparing for their future and current roster context.

Did the Magic need more shooting and ball handling on last year's roster - one which included Vucevic and Ross? YES.

Do the Magic project to need shooting and ball handling on their next year's roster - with or without Vucevic and Ross? YES


Yeah, that's what I thought. There is a DAMN good reason why we are scouring SG prospects. I'll just ignore your post about needing a replacement for Ross since you just backtracked and clarified that we need help with or without him.. and also further confirming that Fournier is clearly insufficient.


BS...there is no backtrack...the FO is preparing for every free agent scenario (as they should) + are looking to address the clear needs of the roster (also as they should). Having only 2 players on roster who can both shoot and create (DJ and Fournier) is not enough. That was simply spelled out for you. Twice.
User avatar
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 14,839
And1: 6,808
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#303 » by Skin » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:22 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
No, I'm referring to a FO preparing for their future and current roster context.

Did the Magic need more shooting and ball handling on last year's roster - one which included Vucevic and Ross? YES.

Do the Magic project to need shooting and ball handling on their next year's roster - with or without Vucevic and Ross? YES


Yeah, that's what I thought. There is a DAMN good reason why we are scouring SG prospects. I'll just ignore your post about needing a replacement for Ross since you just backtracked and clarified that we need help with or without him.. and also further confirming that Fournier is clearly insufficient.


BS...there is no backtrack...the FO is preparing for every free agent scenario (as they should) + are looking to address the clear needs of the roster (also as they should). Having only 2 players on roster who can both shoot and create (DJ and Fournier) is not enough. That was simply spelled out for you. Twice.

It's totally ok to admit that I'm right. We need help at SG like I've been saying allllllll along. You don't need to say it's because we might lose Ross (oh wait, you backtracked on that)... I mean, you don't need to say it's because Fournier is not enough... we know that... that's what many of us have been saying all this time. That's why there is a "trade Fournier" thread... that's why we are looking so hard at SG prospects... it's not just because we might lose Ross (oh wait sorry you took that back).
Image
ezzzp
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,431
And1: 2,769
Joined: Aug 25, 2009
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#304 » by ezzzp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:34 pm

Skin wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought. There is a DAMN good reason why we are scouring SG prospects. I'll just ignore your post about needing a replacement for Ross since you just backtracked and clarified that we need help with or without him.. and also further confirming that Fournier is clearly insufficient.


BS...there is no backtrack...the FO is preparing for every free agent scenario (as they should) + are looking to address the clear needs of the roster (also as they should). Having only 2 players on roster who can both shoot and create (DJ and Fournier) is not enough. That was simply spelled out for you. Twice.


It's totally ok to admit that I'm right. We need help at SG like I've been saying allllllll along. You don't need to say it's because we might lose Ross (oh wait, you backtracked on that)... I mean, you don't need to say it's because Fournier is not enough... we know that... that's what many of us have been saying all this time. That's why there is a "trade Fournier" thread... that's why we are looking so hard at SG prospects... it's not just because we might lose Ross (oh wait sorry you took that back).


No. You are flat out wrong. As usual.

Having players in for workouts doesn't mean anything other than they are researching the draft class and preparing for what the roster skill set needs are + potential positional needs based on what their FA outlook is.

Shooting and ball handling ARE a Magic need. Fournier and DJ are the only two players on the roster with both skill sets. Halfway decent offenses have 4/5+ on roster that can. The FO is researching what they should be researching, stop trying to spin it to be about your weird anti-Fournier bias.
Skybox
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,763
And1: 1,089
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#305 » by Skybox » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Just FYI...The Orlando Magic were not a bad 3-point shooting team at all last year. That is the craziest thing about what many consider to be the team’s biggest weakness.The Magic shot 35.6 percent from beyond the arc, the 11th-best mark in the league. This was even with Evan Fournier having one of the worst shooting seasons of his career and with a team that was full of players most would consider non-shooters.
Orlando took a healthy amount of attempts too. It was not as if Orlando was shying away from 3-pointers.

...from an article. I for one, consider Fournier a good shooter who had an off year. His 17m makes him up for debate but the relentless drive to dump him is overblown. The year before last he led the team with 18ppg. He scores inside and out and is the rare guy that goes fearlessly to the rim. His defense sucks but he's not the antichrist some here label him. He won't be sniffing 17m in 2 years and it's only 2 years. I think it's highly unlikely he doesn't bounce back. If he were put in Ross' position which was largely "Green Light vs. Backups", I think he'd get more love. I'm not on team Evan, I just think he's a lot better than he gets credit for. Bad year...anyone want to bet he won't have better ppg, fg%, and 3pt% next season?
User avatar
spinedoc
General Manager
Posts: 7,834
And1: 251
Joined: Aug 16, 2002
Location: TN.
       

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#306 » by spinedoc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:00 pm

Well, after some free time taking up the challenge, I could only come up with three names. Conley, Chris Paul, and Wiggins. I don't see us getting a young up and coming upgrade, I believe it would take a bad contract to move him. I would do Wiggins, but not the other aging names. I've been meh on Fournier, fine for the moment, but always looking for something better. Now we're at the point where his contract really isn't looking so bad, and next year even great as an expiring one. Nah, let's let Fultz play over there some after signing a guy like Rozier, hopefully resigning Ross as well, and also drafting a sg. I'd rather focus on pg, one we can build and rely on, and let Fournier run out of time naturally.
User avatar
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,120
And1: 7,879
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#307 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:06 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
Bensational wrote:If the Wolves decided they wanted out from under Wiggins' contract and offered him for Fournier + DJ, would you take it? If they insisted the #16 be included?

Am I crazy for saying yes to both without hesitation, or am I crazy for thinking Minnesota would ever give him away for so little?

Whilst I don't think Wiggins will ever live up to the hype he brought from high school, I do think he could have a serviceable DeRozan-like career. Who knows, maybe Clifford would be the guy to get it out of him?

Absolutely. No way in hell would I take on that poison pill of a contract. Andrew Wiggins is a bad basketball player. He is a high volume low efficient scorer that is a liability defensively. He is not showing improvement in those areas either, and his OBPM has gotten worse each year of his career (was a -1.7 last year). He also had a 12.4 PER last year and had -0.6 OWS's. His first three seasons actually gave you a sliver of hope that he could turn into a decent offensive player someday but since he got payed he has regressed significantly on that end the last 2 years.

Our FO is too smart and cap conscious to take on a contract like that. He has 4 years left on his max contract and will be making 30 plus million his last two years. Zero interest for me.


Fair enough. I just feel like Wiggins is a new team and system away from a rebirth, though. He's only 2 seasons away from a 16.5 PER and a 53% TS, and WS of 4.2. I just don't think he peaked for good at 21. He's absolutely overpaid, but if we can get him back on track and he's even considered 'worth' that contract, then it gives us a much bigger chip to bargain with in trades down the line. I think a coach like Cliff could probably whip him into shape.

But I totes get it if everyone else is too put off by that contract. It's a behemoth.
Image
User avatar
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,120
And1: 7,879
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#308 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:11 pm

Skybox wrote:Just FYI...The Orlando Magic were not a bad 3-point shooting team at all last year. That is the craziest thing about what many consider to be the team’s biggest weakness.The Magic shot 35.6 percent from beyond the arc, the 11th-best mark in the league. This was even with Evan Fournier having one of the worst shooting seasons of his career and with a team that was full of players most would consider non-shooters.
Orlando took a healthy amount of attempts too. It was not as if Orlando was shying away from 3-pointers.

...from an article. I for one, consider Fournier a good shooter who had an off year. His 17m makes him up for debate but the relentless drive to dump him is overblown. The year before last he led the team with 18ppg. He scores inside and out and is the rare guy that goes fearlessly to the rim. His defense sucks but he's not the antichrist some here label him. He won't be sniffing 17m in 2 years and it's only 2 years. I think it's highly unlikely he doesn't bounce back. If he were put in Ross' position which was largely "Green Light vs. Backups", I think he'd get more love. I'm not on team Evan, I just think he's a lot better than he gets credit for. Bad year...anyone want to bet he won't have better ppg, fg%, and 3pt% next season?


He receives the same level of criticism as guys like Vuc and Gordon do. The reason is because we're a team strapped for stars, so all the expectations lie on those at the head of the table, and when they don't fulfil that need they become regarded as failures.

If we had Kawhi/Giannis/Durant/Embiid/Curry/etc on the team then I don't think fans would be as restless in their desires to move pieces for upgrades in talent. Even though we've been rebuilding for 7 years now, we're still teething, and we've only just had one come through this season but now we might already be losing it.
Image
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,373
And1: 7,610
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#309 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:36 pm

Wiggins might have lowest BBIQ player in NBA history. If his BBIQ was same as "normal" IQ, he would be labled as disabled.
There is literally nothing he can do well.
He even forgot how to shoot FTs
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
MoMM
General Manager
Posts: 8,648
And1: 866
Joined: Jan 08, 2002
Location: Florianopolis, Brazil
Contact:
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#310 » by MoMM » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:15 pm

At least he doesn't get injured very often lol
ezzzp
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,431
And1: 2,769
Joined: Aug 25, 2009
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#311 » by ezzzp » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:58 pm

Skybox wrote:Just FYI...The Orlando Magic were not a bad 3-point shooting team at all last year. That is the craziest thing about what many consider to be the team’s biggest weakness.The Magic shot 35.6 percent from beyond the arc, the 11th-best mark in the league. This was even with Evan Fournier having one of the worst shooting seasons of his career and with a team that was full of players most would consider non-shooters.
Orlando took a healthy amount of attempts too. It was not as if Orlando was shying away from 3-pointers.

...from an article. I for one, consider Fournier a good shooter who had an off year. His 17m makes him up for debate but the relentless drive to dump him is overblown. The year before last he led the team with 18ppg. He scores inside and out and is the rare guy that goes fearlessly to the rim. His defense sucks but he's not the antichrist some here label him. He won't be sniffing 17m in 2 years and it's only 2 years. I think it's highly unlikely he doesn't bounce back. If he were put in Ross' position which was largely "Green Light vs. Backups", I think he'd get more love. I'm not on team Evan, I just think he's a lot better than he gets credit for. Bad year...anyone want to bet he won't have better ppg, fg%, and 3pt% next season?


You're absolutely correct, the Magic were pretty solid 3PT shooting team last season, and that was without Fournier who had been their best perimeter threat in the past. It wasn't as much of a weakness as team wide ball handling and effective self-creation.

The reason I feel the FO are looking at shooting as a need, really has to do with free agency. If the Magic happen to lose both Vucevic and Ross, they would lose a massive chunk of their perimeter offensive attack.

Last season, Vucevic (231) and Ross (566) accounted for 797 of the Magic's 2633 made three pointers. That's 30% of the Magic's 3PT attack that would disappear.

On top of that, Vucevic (102) and Ross (170) also accounted for 272 of the Magic's 773 made FG's in the 15' to <3PT range. That's 35% of the mid range perimeter shooting attack that would disappear.

That's an awful lot ground to make up with in-roster internal improvements.

If Vucevic and Ross are re-signed, then the need isn't as crucial. Regardless, adding more shooting to the rotation (especially the bench) will benefit the overall roster composition in my opinion.
User avatar
Hoops23
General Manager
Posts: 8,228
And1: 904
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Location: City of Angels
   

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#312 » by Hoops23 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:48 am

How about this trade?

Miami gets Fournier, Mozgov, DJ and #16

Orlando gets Dragic, Waiters, Johnson and #13

For the Heat its for additional cap space next yr.

For Orlando, they covet Dragic before, and they got it with this trade while moving up in the draft. They also dump Mozgov contract which the Heat will waive after the trade.

Anyone?
Hogified05
Pro Prospect
Posts: 965
And1: 421
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
Location: Florida
Contact:
   

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#313 » by Hogified05 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:41 am

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Lol my imagination getting the best of me to get Beal here. I mean it makes sense for everyone I guess.

Washington gets: Holiday, Ingram and the 4th pick. They would have 4th and 9th. Hell of a start to a rebuild.

New Orleans gets: Bamba, Howard (get salary right) and Fournier. New Orleans needs a center. Won't find a better one in the draft than Bamba. Young can pair with Zion and Ball. Fournier provides vet leadership and becomes tradeable with a year left next year.

Orlando: Beal and Frank Jackson. Going for a top 4 seed with this if we decide to keep Vuc.

Fultz/DJ
Beal/Wes
AG/Ross
Isaac/ FA or 16th
Vuc/Birch
The hero Orlando deserves is out there somewhere, Dwight was not the one we needed. So we will hunt for him...
cedric76
RealGM
Posts: 12,274
And1: 2,129
Joined: May 28, 2005

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#314 » by cedric76 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:29 am

Hoops23 wrote:How about this trade?

Miami gets Fournier, Mozgov, DJ and #16

Orlando gets Dragic, Waiters, Johnson and #13

For the Heat its for additional cap space next yr.

For Orlando, they covet Dragic before, and they got it with this trade while moving up in the draft. They also dump Mozgov contract which the Heat will waive after the trade.

Anyone?



No incentive for Orlando to do this trade

Mozgoz + dj contracts r fine

They will very valuable at the trade deadline
????,DJ
Evan,Simms,Iwundu
AG,Ross,frazier,jackson
isaac,AG,Birch
Mo,Biz,birch
NotACat
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,451
And1: 699
Joined: Apr 28, 2018
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#315 » by NotACat » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:51 am

Hoops23 wrote:How about this trade?

Miami gets Fournier, Mozgov, DJ and #16

Orlando gets Dragic, Waiters, Johnson and #13

For the Heat its for additional cap space next yr.

For Orlando, they covet Dragic before, and they got it with this trade while moving up in the draft. They also dump Mozgov contract which the Heat will waive after the trade.

Anyone?

I wouldn't say we covet Dragic, but see him as a solid stop gap. And we're not exactly dumping Mozgov when picking up extra ~$16M in contracts with Johnson and Waiters, even after moving Fournier. Too much salary to move up too few spots in the draft and for players that don't exactly make our team much better, and also tying up our cap. This is a no from me, especially in this years draft.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 28,445
And1: 9,892
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#316 » by tiderulz » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:58 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Hoops23 wrote:How about this trade?

Miami gets Fournier, Mozgov, DJ and #16

Orlando gets Dragic, Waiters, Johnson and #13

For the Heat its for additional cap space next yr.

For Orlando, they covet Dragic before, and they got it with this trade while moving up in the draft. They also dump Mozgov contract which the Heat will waive after the trade.

Anyone?



No incentive for Orlando to do this trade

Mozgoz + dj contracts r fine

They will very valuable at the trade deadline

i dont see DJ and Mozgov contracts being valuable. but i still wouldnt do this trade.
User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Veteran
Posts: 2,695
And1: 2,143
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#317 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:13 pm

Skybox wrote:Just FYI...The Orlando Magic were not a bad 3-point shooting team at all last year. That is the craziest thing about what many consider to be the team’s biggest weakness.The Magic shot 35.6 percent from beyond the arc, the 11th-best mark in the league. This was even with Evan Fournier having one of the worst shooting seasons of his career and with a team that was full of players most would consider non-shooters.
Orlando took a healthy amount of attempts too. It was not as if Orlando was shying away from 3-pointers.

...from an article. I for one, consider Fournier a good shooter who had an off year. His 17m makes him up for debate but the relentless drive to dump him is overblown. The year before last he led the team with 18ppg. He scores inside and out and is the rare guy that goes fearlessly to the rim. His defense sucks but he's not the antichrist some here label him. He won't be sniffing 17m in 2 years and it's only 2 years. I think it's highly unlikely he doesn't bounce back. If he were put in Ross' position which was largely "Green Light vs. Backups", I think he'd get more love. I'm not on team Evan, I just think he's a lot better than he gets credit for. Bad year...anyone want to bet he won't have better ppg, fg%, and 3pt% next season?


ehh somewhat misleading this year since we were carried by 2 dudes. DJ isn't going to shoot 42% from 3 every year and TRoss isn't going to shoot 38% from 3 off 7 attempts. Feel like we absolutely exceed expectations this year and made playoffs 1 year earlier than expected which also threw a wrench into FO's plans. (Not trading TRoss or Vuc at deadline)
LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC... CAN’T SHOOT
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 26,731
And1: 3,883
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#318 » by drsd » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:36 pm

Skybox wrote:I for one, consider Fournier a good shooter who had an off year.


In March and April, Fournier was a touch better than his career average with an ~38% three-ball. It is no coincidence for me that that correlates to the increased winning rate over those same games.

Fournier was crap early going. My thoughts are that he was slow to transition back to his natural position.


..
User avatar
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,120
And1: 7,879
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#319 » by Bensational » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:45 pm

I wonder if Fournier could get us Dragic straight up? That would be a big improvement in terms of selling the team to free agents - they'd know they'd have help.

Is it worth adding the #16? Or could we stand firm on a top 20 protected future 1st?
Image
NotACat
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,451
And1: 699
Joined: Apr 28, 2018
 

Re: What are your best Fournier trade proposals? 

Post#320 » by NotACat » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:04 pm

Bensational wrote:I wonder if Fournier could get us Dragic straight up? That would be a big improvement in terms of selling the team to free agents - they'd know they'd have help.

Is it worth adding the #16? Or could we stand firm on a top 20 protected future 1st?

Stand firm at top 20 protected, turn it into 2nds in the future if it doesn't convey

Return to Orlando Magic