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What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic?

Moderators: UCFJayBird, MagicMadness, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior, SOUL, Def Swami

I wouldn't pay Vuc anything more than $ ___ Million per year on his next 4 year contract.

$30M
2
3%
$29M
0
No votes
$28M
1
1%
$27M
4
6%
$26M
0
No votes
$25M
16
24%
$24M
10
15%
$23M
5
7%
$22M
11
16%
$21M
18
27%
 
Total votes: 67

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#201 » by MagicMatic » Mon May 20, 2019 4:19 pm

Vuc is a top 10-15 player in the league, but teams don’t have room for him / need him and he won’t be paid like one because reasons...:lol:

Contradictory homerific delusion at its finest.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#202 » by pepe1991 » Mon May 20, 2019 4:54 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Vuc is a top 10-15 player in the league, but teams don’t have room for him / need him and he won’t be paid like one because reasons...:lol:

Contradictory homerific delusion at its finest.


Wow, being di**k for no reason.

Why are you acting like 30 teams can sign 1 player when you know that's not a case and nothing works like that?
19 out of 30 teams can't sign more expensive player for simple reason- they don't have salary cap.

Out of 11 teams that will have some cap space, Suns, Pacers, Philly and Bulls don't need center because they either have just signed ones on long term deals ( Embiid max deal, Turner 4 years deal ) or they drafted C last year and are in no rush to try for playoffs any time soon (Bulls and Suns) who had top 5 worst records.

Add to that traditionally FA wastelands Kings and Hawks who never in history signed anybody your market for potentional sutiors gets smaller.

Not just for Vučević but for guys like Butler, Walker , Harris, Klay Thompson, Horford, Barnes , JJ Redick and others.

This year's FA will be in hands of Durant and Leonard and they will dictate other moves. Guys like Walker and Irving , despite being multi times allstar, still won't "manipulate "market or get signed before teams see where Durant and Leonard go.

Also you react about "top 15 player" , Jimmy Butler is hands down top 15 player, yet he got traded twice ( For Lavine, Dunn and pick once, for Šarić and Covington second time ) . And even he does not have strong suitor right now ,as other teams will stay put ,waiting to see what happends with Leonard and Durant.

This is reality, Leonard, Lebron ,Durant , Curry , Giannis and Harden are only stars that actually matter in nba. We saw with AD that even he does not have power to make teams sell everything just to land him.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#203 » by ezzzp » Mon May 20, 2019 7:00 pm

Bensational wrote:So, you're quite clearly asserting that he's a top 10 player, based off the rankings of those stats and a popularity vote.


Uh, no. It is clearly about 2018-19 - hence the THIS SEASON part of the statement. Where am I saying that he's a top 10 player in the NBA? Nowhere.

Does anyone establish that based one season? Well maybe you do, since you are already calling Trae Young a franchise player and the Hawks one piece away from being a contender :lol:

...and FYI Vucevic wasn't the fan popularity vote, it was the NBA coaches vote.


Bensational wrote:Yet, now you're adamant that there won't be a high demand for one of the league's top 10 players. Are you admitting that despite the facts you originally listed as proof of Vuc being a top 10 player, that he may not actually be regarded as a top 10 player?


...and there you are again taking a false premise as a foundation of another silly spin

I have already given a price range and shown you why. Two fan forums have already generated a consensus of what a fair $ is.

Yet here you are trying to spin like you and same 2-3 people aren't the ones trying to say he's going to get a ridiculous amount. LMAO are you serious with this ridiculous nonsense?

Bensational wrote:That's my point. If he's as good as you have been portraying him, he will be valued as such. And that will result in a large offer from someone, surely. So you've either misrepresented how good he is, or you're undervaluing the guy you've gone to efforts to big up. Which is it?


Uh NO. Its this thing called supply and demand. If you want to ignore that there just aren't that many teams with cap space and actual need for a starting C, that's on you. Feel free to concoct your fantasy scenarios to alter that market reality. I'm sure MagicMatic and Skin will and1 you :lol:

Bensational wrote:The T&T board doesn't value him at $20-24M. 11 people voted $15-17M. 14 voted $17-19. 25 voted $20-22M. 11 voted $22-24M. That's not top 10 money they're talking about there.


36 of 61 (aka the majority) do...and the average is $19-$20m.

That's the range that I have said all along.

But keep spinning things to deflect from the facts that its you (and Skin and Martinsisfraud) who are the ones saying he's going to get this insane amount. What a total joke.


Bensational wrote:So, if we can agree that Vuc isn't likely to be considered or treated like a top 10 player, because he's not, then we discuss money. What's the fair offer we're prepared to make? Who knows. Likely in that $20-22M range. Then it becomes a matter of how might he be offered more. Simply, by a team with more to offer who has failed to land a better player. Presuming that rosters won't change and teams couldn't find themselves in a position where they need a C, and have the money to offer Vuc a spot is a very limited projection.


Uh that's just concocting fantasy scenarios to try to create a market and demand that isn't there.

Bensational wrote:Even if teams don't have the apparent required context for Vuc, I think we all know GMs can make some panic offers when they're presented with the opportunity to add talent, even if it doesn't fit all that well.


Yea, and a million trillion other "WHAT IF'S" could happen. What if's aren't the actual market context.

Could Durant decide he wants to play in Atlanta? Sure why not if we are just concocting fantasy hot takes, its easy to spin a BS narrative to make it seem reasonable. I'm sure there would be a group of Atlanta fans that would and1 your hot take and point to it saying see its not unrealistic.

Bensational wrote:Vuc is certainly good enough to make some teams consider it. He may not be top 10, but he's certainly somewhere in the top 50.

But if we find ourselves in a position where no other team values him that highly, then we really should be considering whether or not we should value him that highly and sink our limited capital into that asset.


Again, market supply and demand. Saying that no team values him is BS spin. Just because the majority of the NBA doesn't have the right combination of salary cap space, need at starting C, and developmental context...it DOES NOT mean they don't value him.

Yet again, your hot take is built on a false premise.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#204 » by ezzzp » Mon May 20, 2019 7:04 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Vuc is a top 10-15 player in the league, but teams don’t have room for him / need him and he won’t be paid like one because reasons...:lol:

Contradictory homerific delusion at its finest.


Uh NO. You are the one that's been crying about how he's going to get crazy offers from tank teams. Don't make me embarrass you again by pulling up your sadly uninformed quotes.

I on the other hand have been saying that his market isn't that and have been adamant about that all along.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#205 » by MagicMatic » Mon May 20, 2019 7:45 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Vuc is a top 10-15 player in the league, but teams don’t have room for him / need him and he won’t be paid like one because reasons...:lol:

Contradictory homerific delusion at its finest.


Uh NO. You are the one that's been crying about how he's going to get crazy offers from tank teams. Don't make me embarrass you again by pulling up your sadly uninformed quotes.

I on the other hand have been saying that his market isn't that and have been adamant about that all along.


Lol ok tough internet warrior.

Vuc isn’t a top 15 player. Deal with it.

The center market isn’t good, but that won’t stop teams from taking a shot at him regardless. All it takes is one bad decision from another organization to determine his “value”. A lot can happen. Also, Orlando isn’t going to offer him some deal he’s going to scoff at after being the first “allstar” for the franchise In forever regardless of his merit. They have a number and won’t go over that number as they’ve stated in GM speak.

So which is it? He’s a top 15 player to you but absolutely won’t get paid like one? Sure. :lol:
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#206 » by MagicMatic » Mon May 20, 2019 7:50 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Bensational wrote:That's my point. If he's as good as you have been portraying him, he will be valued as such. And that will result in a large offer from someone, surely. So you've either misrepresented how good he is, or you're undervaluing the guy you've gone to efforts to big up. Which is it?


Uh NO. Its this thing called supply and demand. If you want to ignore that there just aren't that many teams with cap space and actual need for a starting C, that's on you. Feel free to concoct your fantasy scenarios to alter that market reality. I'm sure MagicMatic and Skin will and1 you :lol:


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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#207 » by ezzzp » Mon May 20, 2019 8:24 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Vuc is a top 10-15 player in the league, but teams don’t have room for him / need him and he won’t be paid like one because reasons...:lol:

Contradictory homerific delusion at its finest.


Uh NO. You are the one that's been crying about how he's going to get crazy offers from tank teams. Don't make me embarrass you again by pulling up your sadly uninformed quotes.

I on the other hand have been saying that his market isn't that and have been adamant about that all along.


Lol ok tough internet warrior.

Vuc isn’t a top 15 player. Deal with it.

The center market isn’t good, but that won’t stop teams from taking a shot at him regardless. All it takes is one bad decision from another organization to determine his “value”. A lot can happen. Also, Orlando isn’t going to offer him some deal he’s going to scoff at after being the first “allstar” for the franchise In forever regardless of his merit. They have a number and won’t go over that number as they’ve stated in GM speak.

So which is it? He’s a top 15 player to you but absolutely won’t get paid like one? Sure. :lol:


Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#208 » by ezzzp » Mon May 20, 2019 8:25 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Bensational wrote:


Uh NO. Its this thing called supply and demand. If you want to ignore that there just aren't that many teams with cap space and actual need for a starting C, that's on you. Feel free to concoct your fantasy scenarios to alter that market reality. I'm sure MagicMatic and Skin will and1 you :lol:


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That's a funny gif of you crying after I just embarrassed you with facts. At least its nice that you three can give each other emotional support with and1 hugs to deal with it. :lol:
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#209 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Mon May 20, 2019 8:35 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Uh NO. You are the one that's been crying about how he's going to get crazy offers from tank teams. Don't make me embarrass you again by pulling up your sadly uninformed quotes.

I on the other hand have been saying that his market isn't that and have been adamant about that all along.


Lol ok tough internet warrior.

Vuc isn’t a top 15 player. Deal with it.

The center market isn’t good, but that won’t stop teams from taking a shot at him regardless. All it takes is one bad decision from another organization to determine his “value”. A lot can happen. Also, Orlando isn’t going to offer him some deal he’s going to scoff at after being the first “allstar” for the franchise In forever regardless of his merit. They have a number and won’t go over that number as they’ve stated in GM speak.

So which is it? He’s a top 15 player to you but absolutely won’t get paid like one? Sure. :lol:


Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.


there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#210 » by ezzzp » Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Lol ok tough internet warrior.

Vuc isn’t a top 15 player. Deal with it.

The center market isn’t good, but that won’t stop teams from taking a shot at him regardless. All it takes is one bad decision from another organization to determine his “value”. A lot can happen. Also, Orlando isn’t going to offer him some deal he’s going to scoff at after being the first “allstar” for the franchise In forever regardless of his merit. They have a number and won’t go over that number as they’ve stated in GM speak.

So which is it? He’s a top 15 player to you but absolutely won’t get paid like one? Sure. :lol:


Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.


there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier


You do realize that those contracts came on a year when the salary cap jumped giving nearly the entire league max cap room + 1/3 with more than 2 max salary spots. The Magic had 3 max slots that summer. That salary cap jump was first time in NBA history that has ever happened, and its not what's happening with the cap this summer.

FYI, Fournier was asset retention AND his contract is 16% of cap which is what the average starter salary is in the NBA...and since its flat and the cap increases some every year, its actually decreasing % as he gets closer to his peak prime production. If you want a stud wing, you have to pay for it...guys like Beal, McCollum etc are 25-30% of cap.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#211 » by AshBlackstone » Mon May 20, 2019 9:01 pm

A lot of people in here are citing cap flexibility as the reason for whatever hard limit they are voting for.

My question is this, what do you want Orlando to do with said cap flexibility?

Is it something attainable for this franchise?
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#212 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue May 21, 2019 12:20 am

ezzzp wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.


there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier


You do realize that those contracts came on a year when the salary cap jumped giving nearly the entire league max cap room + 1/3 with more than 2 max salary spots. The Magic had 3 max slots that summer. That salary cap jump was first time in NBA history that has ever happened, and its not what's happening with the cap this summer.

FYI, Fournier was asset retention AND his contract is 16% of cap which is what the average starter salary is in the NBA...and since its flat and the cap increases some every year, its actually decreasing % as he gets closer to his peak prime production. If you want a stud wing, you have to pay for it...guys like Beal, McCollum etc are 25-30% of cap.


And this summer a couple teams have 2 Max slots and a good amount of other teams have 1.5 Max slots.

Point being teams that miss on option 1-2 might throw big money to land 3 regardless of “value”
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#213 » by SOUL » Tue May 21, 2019 6:56 am

MagicMatic wrote:.

ezzzp wrote:.


Whether I agree or not with the posts is irrelevant, please stop personal attacks or else posters will start getting three day suspensions. This is the last warning and it goes for any poster in this thread. Just put each other on your ignore list or make the debate about the topic at hand without throwing shots at each other. If the debate has been exhausted, just move on from the topic. Please.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#214 » by ezzzp » Tue May 21, 2019 7:07 am

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
And this summer a couple teams have 2 Max slots and a good amount of other teams have 1.5 Max slots.

Point being teams that miss on option 1-2 might throw big money to land 3 regardless of “value”



Read on Twitter



• Eligible max $ for player with < 6 yrs experience: $27.3
(D Russell, K Porzingis, J Randle etc.)

• Eligible max $ for player with 7-9 yrs exp: $32.7m
(J Butler, K Irving, K Thompson, K Walker, K Leonard, K Middelton, N Vucevic, T Harris, etc)

• Eligible max $ for player with +10 yrs exp: $38.2m
(K Durant etc)

Two max salary combinations:

27.3 + 27.3 = $54.6m
27.3 + 32.7 = $60.0m
27.3 + 38.2 = $65.5m
32.7 + 32.7 = $65.4m
32.7 + 38.2 = $70.0m
38.2 + 38.2 = $76.4m


The 9 teams with max cap space:

...have a starting C under contract:
Knicks: Mitchell Robinson
Indiana: Myles Turner + Domatas Sabonis
Utah: Rudy Gobert
Brooklyn: Jarrett Allen
Chicago: Wendell Carter Jr
Atlanta: Alex Len

...have a starting C hitting rfa (can sign them over the salary cap):
Clippers: Ivaka Zubac (RFA)
Sacramento: Willie Cauley Stein (RFA)
Dallas: Kristaps Porzingis (RFA)

...don't have a starting C:
Lakers: X


18-19 Free Agent Centers: (9 Starters / 17 Rotation / + Fringe and Rookies )

Spoiler:
Starters (9):
Nikola Vucevic (29)
DeMarcus Cousins (29)
Dewayne Dedmon (30)
Brook Lopez (31)
Robin Lopez (31)
Willie Cauley-Stein (26) rfa
Ivica Zubac (22) rfa
Thomas Bryant (22) rfa
DeAndre Jordan (31)

Rotation (17):
Enes Kanter (27)
Kosta Koufos (30)
Kevon Looney (23)
Ed Davis (29)
Kyle O’Quinn (29)
Boban Marjanovic (31)
JaVale McGee (31)
Tyson Chandler (37)
Marcin Gortat (35)
Mike Muscala (28)
Joakim Noah (34)
Zaza Pachulia (35)
Ekpe Udoh (31)
Khem Birch (27)
Frank Kaminsky (26)
Luke Kornet (24)
Daniel Theis (27)

PLUS the center's being drafted and numerous fringe rotation bigs
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#215 » by Xatticus » Tue May 21, 2019 11:08 am

I think I would wait the market out and explore alternatives. There is just going to be far more talent than money out there and there isn't any point in paying $20M+ per year when nobody else is going to be willing to. This is going to be a buyer's market and I'm sure our front office would love to explore some options this summer. The available cap space is going to dry up very quickly if some of the big names (Durant, Leonard, Walker, Butler, Irving, etc...) change teams. If someone like Thompson, Harris, or Russell changes teams, the market will tighten up very quickly.

I would tell Vucevic to explore free agency and keep us apprised. If Sacramento or Atlanta (or whoever) is willing to pay him in excess of $20M per year, then you give him a pat on the back and move on. Sacramento isn't going to match an offer sheet on WCS if they sign Vucevic. Toronto let the market for Lowry play out in 2014/15 and ended up re-signing him for three years at $12M per year because of the lack of interest around the league.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#216 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 21, 2019 11:36 am

Xatticus wrote:I think I would wait the market out and explore alternatives. There is just going to be far more talent than money out there and there isn't any point in paying $20M+ per year when nobody else is going to be willing to. This is going to be a buyer's market and I'm sure our front office would love to explore some options this summer. The available cap space is going to dry up very quickly if some of the big names (Durant, Leonard, Walker, Butler, Irving, etc...) change teams. If someone like Thompson, Harris, or Russell changes teams, the market will tighten up very quickly.

I would tell Vucevic to explore free agency and keep us apprised. If Sacramento or Atlanta (or whoever) is willing to pay him in excess of $20M per year, then you give him a pat on the back and move on. Sacramento isn't going to match an offer sheet on WCS if they sign Vucevic. Toronto let the market for Lowry play out in 2014/15 and ended up re-signing him for three years at $12M per year because of the lack of interest around the league.


I think the Magic will make a fair market valued offer then let Vooch explore offers while keeping them apprised.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#217 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 21, 2019 11:43 am

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Lol ok tough internet warrior.

Vuc isn’t a top 15 player. Deal with it.

The center market isn’t good, but that won’t stop teams from taking a shot at him regardless. All it takes is one bad decision from another organization to determine his “value”. A lot can happen. Also, Orlando isn’t going to offer him some deal he’s going to scoff at after being the first “allstar” for the franchise In forever regardless of his merit. They have a number and won’t go over that number as they’ve stated in GM speak.

So which is it? He’s a top 15 player to you but absolutely won’t get paid like one? Sure. :lol:


Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.


there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier


Vucevic has been solid for 3-5 years, but has really worked hard to improve his game to the point of being an All-Star while being the most consistent player on the team. Thus, this isn't some one time fluke like Moz or Biz as Vucevic can contribute and make a difference on many teams.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#218 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue May 21, 2019 11:49 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Uh I NEVER said he was, I said he was top 10 by most every adv stat in 18-19 - and he was.

Maybe you use only a 1 year sample to establish who is a top 15 player in NBA, but most people with basic level nba knowledge use multiple seasons to establish that. Deal with that. :lol:

and LMAO...extreme "what if" scenarios are how you are supporting your hot takes about how Vucevic is going to get overpaid.


there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier


Vucevic has been solid for 3-5 years, but has really worked hard to improve his game to the point of being an All-Star while being the most consistent player on the team. Thus, this isn't some one time fluke like Moz or Biz as Vucevic can contribute and make a difference on many teams.


Which is why I said if teams throw WTF contracts out for 1 season or 1 series wonder a team could do it for Vuc.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#219 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 21, 2019 4:42 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
there are more wtf contracts that get offered based off 1 good year or even 1 playoff series, I don't think it's that far fetched to think a team could throw big money at Vuc. Heck we have 3 of em on our team the last 2 years. Biz, Moz and Fournier


Vucevic has been solid for 3-5 years, but has really worked hard to improve his game to the point of being an All-Star while being the most consistent player on the team. Thus, this isn't some one time fluke like Moz or Biz as Vucevic can contribute and make a difference on many teams.


Which is why I said if teams throw WTF contracts out for 1 season or 1 series wonder a team could do it for Vuc.


I reckon there could be other GMs like Henny out there.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#220 » by MasterGMer » Tue May 21, 2019 5:11 pm

I am more into resigning Vuc than offering Russell a RFA max contract.

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