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What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic?

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I wouldn't pay Vuc anything more than $ ___ Million per year on his next 4 year contract.

$30M
3
4%
$29M
0
No votes
$28M
1
1%
$27M
4
6%
$26M
1
1%
$25M
18
25%
$24M
10
14%
$23M
5
7%
$22M
11
15%
$21M
19
26%
 
Total votes: 72

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#241 » by yoyojw17 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:54 pm

Atlhawks09 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Atlhawks09 wrote:I don’t think Collins is a massive defensive liability. He had a +1.9 DBPM (1.1 BLK in 24.1 Mins) as a rookie in Coach Bud’s system and this past year he got off to a slow start (missed the first 18 games with an ankle injury in preseason) but was much more active defensively later in the season.

First 47 games:
18 blocks (0.4 BPG a game in 29.9 MPG)

Last 14 games:
24 blocks (1.5 BPG game in 30.4 MPG)

Trae we’ll see if he can get closer to average defensively ...he’s only 20 and improved as the season went on.

Hawks also do VALUE a stretch shooting 5. There’s a reason why you saw Len and Dedmon shooting more volume 3’s then they ever had in their career. Non shooting big clogs the paint for Trae/Collins. Ideally the Hawks would like shooters everywhere.

Hawks won’t be a player on the FA market this year though unless Durant/Leonard/Thompson (not happening) wanted to come. Hawks will build around Trae, Huerter, Collins + hopefully 8 + 10 picks so they won’t be looking to sign Vuc.


I like what I saw of Alex Len, he's improved all around. It seems like he still needs to get a bit stronger but he could take another nice production jump next year and you guys have him dirt cheap at $4m. That was a nice pick up. He could evolve into a good fit as his body enters prime physicality.

Individual defensive statistics aren't really a good measure for gauging if a player is good defensively or not. The best way to look at defense is in 5 player lineup increments and team context. Another metric I have found to be informative is NBA.com's tracking data (Defensive Dashboard) that measures Defensive FG% + has comparison to how that player impacts his opponents FG% in different shot zones.

If you look at the team context, you guys had the 4th worst defense in the NBA with a 113.0 Defensive Rating. Within that context, your 3 worst defenders were Prince (114.6), Young (113.6) and Collins (112.0)...but those numbers are tied together, so one or more could be dragging others down.

If you look at NBA's camera tracking DFG% and impact - those numbers show that you were right about Collins. He does actually perform much better than what my eye test had seen in the handful of games I watched you guys last season. He had a very solid -7.1 impact on opponents interior attack FG%...and was also solid on the perimeter with a -0.2 impact.

This hints that he's individually holding his own and the problem lies within team defense and that he's surrounded by weak defenders.

Len and Dedmon both had solid defensive tracking numbers.

Young is definitely not good, opponents shoot +4.0 better than their normal FG% when defended by him. I'm not sure on this, but my guess is that you guys are probably hiding him on that end too...which would make that number even uglier given context. Huerter was really really bad with a +6 impact. The defensive issue is in the guards/wings, so you guys will have to overcompensate around that with excellent defenders, at SG/SF and/or C for most impact.

Yeah I agree that a lot of the defensive issues
comes from the backcourt. At the same time both Trae/Huerter were 20 year old rookies starting at PG/SG so I’m not surprised a rookie backcourt (both know for Off) would struggle on that end...I did think both improved as the season went. Not saying either will be elite defenders but let’s see how they look as they get older / more experience.

Not sure about Prince...he was decent as a rookie and last year but was really bad this year and shooting + defense was what he was known for at Baylor.

Would still like to add good defenders around them regardless that fit offensively. I want Reddish + Bol (if foot checks out)

i was thinking the same for you guys. swing for the fences. Reddish could be a much better player in the NBA and a steal... and bol's injury could be a hell of a blessing. otherwise i was thinking hayes will round your youth movement out nicely
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#242 » by Skin » Thu May 23, 2019 7:05 pm

Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#243 » by fklt » Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 pm

Skin wrote:Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

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he was the 5th best center in the voting. i'd place him 3rd or 4th in terms of impact, but 5th is not bad for a fool's gold either.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#244 » by Skin » Thu May 23, 2019 11:13 pm

fklt wrote:
Skin wrote:Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

Read on Twitter


he was the 5th best center in the voting. i'd place him 3rd or 4th in terms of impact, but 5th is not bad for a fool's gold either.

It is bad if that's the guy you're building your team around and you have high expectations.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#245 » by ezzzp » Fri May 24, 2019 12:47 am

Skin wrote:Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

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...and Ross didn't even get a single vote for 6th man

...and neither JI or Gordon got a single vote for all D

...and Clifford didn't get a single vote for COY


Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#246 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 24, 2019 12:50 am

ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

Read on Twitter



...and Ross didn't even get a single vote for 6th man

...and neither JI or Gordon got a single vote for all D

...and Clifford didn't get a single vote for COY


Because despite what is “deserved”, Orlando is extremely uninteresting and boring basketball to watch because of how they play. Not shocking at all.

JI and Ross deserved votes. Unfortunately, that requires the media and voters to subject themselves to watching the Magic.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#247 » by ezzzp » Fri May 24, 2019 12:58 am

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote:Might be a shocker to some, but Vuc was not among the Top 15 players named to the All NBA Teams.

Read on Twitter



...and Ross didn't even get a single vote for 6th man

...and neither JI or Gordon got a single vote for all D

...and Clifford didn't get a single vote for COY


Because despite what is “deserved”, Orlando is extremely uninteresting and boring basketball to watch because of how they play. Not shocking at all.

JI and Ross deserved votes. Unfortunately, that requires the media and voters to subject themselves to watching the Magic.


That's your opinion...there are tons of people who love the direction of the team and enjoyed the hell out of the Magic this season.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#248 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 24, 2019 1:13 am

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:

...and Ross didn't even get a single vote for 6th man

...and neither JI or Gordon got a single vote for all D

...and Clifford didn't get a single vote for COY


Because despite what is “deserved”, Orlando is extremely uninteresting and boring basketball to watch because of how they play. Not shocking at all.

JI and Ross deserved votes. Unfortunately, that requires the media and voters to subject themselves to watching the Magic.


That's your opinion...there are tons of people who love the direction of the team and enjoyed the hell out of the Magic this season.


Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#249 » by ezzzp » Fri May 24, 2019 1:28 am

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Because despite what is “deserved”, Orlando is extremely uninteresting and boring basketball to watch because of how they play. Not shocking at all.

JI and Ross deserved votes. Unfortunately, that requires the media and voters to subject themselves to watching the Magic.


That's your opinion...there are tons of people who love the direction of the team and enjoyed the hell out of the Magic this season.


Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.


You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#250 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 24, 2019 1:45 am

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
That's your opinion...there are tons of people who love the direction of the team and enjoyed the hell out of the Magic this season.


Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.


You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner


Ok....

And yeah, that list kinda makes sense. Davis played like 50 games this season and was completely checked out... Outside of 1-3, the rest are on completely inconsequential teams except for maybe turner who had to split minutes with Sabonis.

Vucevic gets every opportunity imaginable to be the lead scoring option on a team with no options.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#251 » by ezzzp » Fri May 24, 2019 1:55 am

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.


You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner


Ok....

And yeah, that list kinda makes sense. Davis played like 50 games this season and was completely checked out... Outside of 1-3, the rest are on completely inconsequential teams except for maybe turner who had to split minutes with Sabonis.

Vucevic gets every opportunity imaginable to be the lead scoring option on a team with no options.



Yea, inconsequential playoff team? smh

Turner started 78 games and played 2119 minutes and was major part of offense with no Oladipo...and Towns minus Jimmy Butler let his team instantly free fall right back to the lottery, so there's that. FYI being the focus of offense like Vucevic, means teams game plan to specifically stop him...so your point about that actually adds even more proof of how good he was this year.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#252 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 24, 2019 2:03 am

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner


Ok....

And yeah, that list kinda makes sense. Davis played like 50 games this season and was completely checked out... Outside of 1-3, the rest are on completely inconsequential teams except for maybe turner who had to split minutes with Sabonis.

Vucevic gets every opportunity imaginable to be the lead scoring option on a team with no options.



Yea, inconsequential playoff team? smh

Turner started 78 games and played 2119 minutes and was major part of offense with no Oladipo...and Towns minus Jimmy Butler let his team instantly free fall right back to the lottery, so there's that. FYI being the focus of offense like Vucevic, means teams game plan to specifically stop him...so your point about that actually adds even more proof of how good he was this year.


Looks like the game plan worked in the first round of the playoffs. Also, knew You would nitpick Turner as inconsequential even though he didn’t step up at all in the playoffs. That top 8 is pretty funny actually. Solid list of regular season players to go with Jokic and maybe Embiid. Outside of that, doesn’t matter.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#253 » by Bensational » Fri May 24, 2019 2:33 am

It's getting a bit petty to be celebrating that Vuc didn't make an All-NBA team. He had a stellar season, and that should be acknowledged, even if you're not a fan. Personally, I think he deserved to be 4th on that list over Towns, and if people wanted to make the case he should be 3rd over Gobert, I wouldn't have an issue with that either.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#254 » by ezzzp » Fri May 24, 2019 4:28 am

MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Ok....

And yeah, that list kinda makes sense. Davis played like 50 games this season and was completely checked out... Outside of 1-3, the rest are on completely inconsequential teams except for maybe turner who had to split minutes with Sabonis.

Vucevic gets every opportunity imaginable to be the lead scoring option on a team with no options.



Yea, inconsequential playoff team? smh

Turner started 78 games and played 2119 minutes and was major part of offense with no Oladipo...and Towns minus Jimmy Butler let his team instantly free fall right back to the lottery, so there's that. FYI being the focus of offense like Vucevic, means teams game plan to specifically stop him...so your point about that actually adds even more proof of how good he was this year.


Looks like the game plan worked in the first round of the playoffs. Also, knew You would nitpick Turner as inconsequential even though he didn’t step up at all in the playoffs. That top 8 is pretty funny actually. Solid list of regular season players to go with Jokic and maybe Embiid. Outside of that, doesn’t matter.


Yea, and it also worked vs Embiid too (68-159 .427 with FORTY turnovers)....and that elite Raptor defense is now up 3-2 heading home to Toronto.

...just "regular season players?????"

Drummond: two time All-Star, All-NBA, 4 time rebounding champion

Myles Turner: starter for playoff team / top 10 defense four years in a row since rookie season...just turned 23 last month

Anthony Davis: lol yea, just a "regular season" player

Rudy Gobert: DPOY, All NBA...anchor to top 3 defense for past 3 seasons (2nd round team twice)
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#255 » by drsd » Sat Jun 8, 2019 7:47 am

With all this narrative around "should Orlando let Vučević walk?", I think it misses the point. When a team like the Nets go after Irving/Walker and Vučević as their double max pair. Or the Lakers max Vučević. In these scenarios, Orlando cannot resign Vučević.

I think Vučević could get a mini-max deal at this point.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#256 » by cedric76 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 9:29 am

The problem isn't the amount, it s the length

I would offer him 3 yrs (3rd year team option) at the max we can offer yearly
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#257 » by tiderulz » Sat Jun 8, 2019 2:33 pm

drsd wrote:With all this narrative around "should Orlando let Vučević walk?", I think it misses the point. When a team like the Nets go after Irving/Walker and Vučević as their double max pair. Or the Lakers max Vučević. In these scenarios, Orlando cannot resign Vučević.

I think Vučević could get a mini-max deal at this point.

maybe i missed it, where is anyone talking about Brooklyn having Vuc as the 2nd of their pair or the Lakers maxing Vuc?
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#258 » by NotACat » Sat Jun 8, 2019 2:41 pm

cedric76 wrote:The problem isn't the amount, it s the length

I would offer him 3 yrs (3rd year team option) at the max we can offer yearly

Or give him a 2 year deal with the salary of a 3 year deal, something like $30M a year. I think he'd take it since it leaves the door open for another contract before he retires.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#259 » by MoMM » Sun Jun 9, 2019 2:09 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
That's your opinion...there are tons of people who love the direction of the team and enjoyed the hell out of the Magic this season.


Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.


You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner

I'd say he had a better season than Towns, so he should be #4, however we all not that AD is better than him, so #5 seems right.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#260 » by Xatticus » Sun Jun 9, 2019 10:24 pm

MoMM wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Obviously the voters didn’t think so. Too bad.


You do know that the voters are a panel of writers and journalists mostly composed of mainstream guys that aren't paid to pay attention to small markets unless they are in contention or have a superstar drawing national attention...I bet most who voted didn't watch the Magic for first time this year until playoffs.

...and even with that, this was the Center Voting:

1 Jokic
2 Embiid
3 Gobert
4 Towns
5 Vucevic
6 Drummond
7 Davis
8 Turner

I'd say he had a better season than Towns, so he should be #4, however we all not that AD is better than him, so #5 seems right.


If anything, Towns is underappreciated due to Minnesota's struggles in the Western Conference.

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