ImageImageImageImage

Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE

Moderators: SOUL, Def Swami, UCF, UCFJayBird, ChosenSavior, Howard Mass, Knightro

User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 28,829
And1: 10,128
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#21 » by tiderulz » Tue May 21, 2019 3:35 pm

Bakomagic wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
thelead wrote:
The pickings are slim on finding a great scorer in the mid first round but I would bet on his shooting percentages and Kentucky’s ability to pump out quality players.

you want a scorer, Carson Edwards. led the Big10 in scoring. would love him off the bench. And he does have stat that WeHam like, 6'1 with 6'6 wingspan


Just read that he is also around 200 lbs that’s a lot of length and strength for a guy who is 6 ft tall. He seems to be pretty athletic and he has a quick release on his jump shot. Doesn’t seem like much of a passer but may be a great scoring spark plug off the bench.

Would be great to get him in the second round. Would be cost effective if we can replace the production of DJ and Tross this draft with Guys like Edwards and K.Johnson we’d be paying a lot less than the 17 million we paid for Ross and DJ.

problem is, i dont think he lasts until OUR 2nd pick. might have to move up into the early 2nd round to get him. I agree, not a giant assist player, but he is a scorer and not afraid of the big moment.
User avatar
MagicMatic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,644
And1: 5,468
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#22 » by MagicMatic » Tue May 21, 2019 4:24 pm

I’m ok with any combination of guard/ wing talent in this draft because there are so few guards. The only compromise would be if we moved one of our core bigs for whatever reason.
User avatar
Solid Snake
General Manager
Posts: 9,434
And1: 4,001
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#23 » by Solid Snake » Tue May 21, 2019 6:21 pm

If we're really moving on from vuc like that rumor said then Naz Reid intruiges me. Not many guys his size got those combination of skills, he can hit you inside and out plus he's pretty mobile and can handle the ball. Or we can get a guard at 16 and a big in the second.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Image

FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 22,089
And1: 7,536
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#24 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue May 21, 2019 7:00 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Ducklett wrote:Yall too funny about drafting at 16 man. We will be lucky to get a player that lasts past his rookie deal at ANY position.

Meanwhile, Portland got smoked like a cheap cigar and we are building a team that looks just like them. Huzzah.

We’re building a team in the East that can make it to the Western conference Finals...Ummm ok..



:lol: :lol:

But what all teams have in common?
Superstars.

What Magic don't have ? Superstar.

I agree. Not sure what that has to do with my sarcastic response.
User avatar
Last Guardian
RealGM
Posts: 22,402
And1: 1,902
Joined: Feb 22, 2004
Location: New Jersey
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#25 » by Last Guardian » Tue May 21, 2019 8:36 pm

I don't care if we draft them, sign them or find a diamond in the rough, we desperately need scoring.
Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 10,636
And1: 4,645
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#26 » by Nyce_1 » Tue May 21, 2019 10:16 pm

Solid Snake wrote:If we're really moving on from vuc like that rumor said then Naz Reid intruiges me. Not many guys his size got those combination of skills, he can hit you inside and out plus he's pretty mobile and can handle the ball. Or we can get a guard at 16 and a big in the second.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
What rumor?
User avatar
Solid Snake
General Manager
Posts: 9,434
And1: 4,001
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#27 » by Solid Snake » Tue May 21, 2019 11:03 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
Solid Snake wrote:If we're really moving on from vuc like that rumor said then Naz Reid intruiges me. Not many guys his size got those combination of skills, he can hit you inside and out plus he's pretty mobile and can handle the ball. Or we can get a guard at 16 and a big in the second.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
What rumor?
There was a post in the draft thread from some other teams board about some guy detailing rumors from various teams. What he said about us is that we might be looking at bruno Fernando at #16 and that word is we might be moving on from vuc because we've been working out a lot of centers apparently.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Image

FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 42,844
And1: 21,874
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 407/516
Contact:
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#28 » by SOUL » Tue May 21, 2019 11:10 pm

We need scoring more than shooting, IMO. Someone that can create his own shot and get to the line at will. We have nobody that can do that currently. Most scorers are able to shoot in time, but a shooter is more of a specialist and isn't always a great scorer. Even Redick needed 4-5 years to come into his own.
Image
Xatticus
Analyst
Posts: 3,644
And1: 3,410
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
         

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#29 » by Xatticus » Tue May 21, 2019 11:18 pm

thelead wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
thelead wrote:How many bigs do we need?

It's time, and has been time, to start taking chances on guards that can shoot. I would start with Keldon Johnson.


isnt a knock on him that he isnt a good shooter? and not even top-100 in NCAA last year in 3 pt %.

He shot 46/38/70

Not great but far from bad. His scoring ability makes up for the lack of elite shooting.


He looks fairly comparable to Knox to me; who I really didn't like as a prospect. I'd liken Knox to Ron Mercer. Once you get past the per game numbers, you realize how truly awful Knox was this year.

Johnson probably has better athleticism than the other two and is probably better at getting to the basket and initiating contact. I suppose that gives him a bit of an edge. I just don't see anything special about him and I would be disappointed if he ends up being our pick.
Xatticus
Analyst
Posts: 3,644
And1: 3,410
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
         

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#30 » by Xatticus » Tue May 21, 2019 11:25 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Bakomagic wrote:
That’s a good point, I didn’t think much of Booker or Jamal Murray during their stunts at Kentucky and they’d both be exactly what we need right now.

Jamal Murray had a stellar freshman season at Kentucky and led Canada to a Silver Medal at the Pan-American Games averaging 16 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg on 45% shooting at age 18!

He averaged 20 ppg, 5 rpg, and 2 apg on 45/41/78 splits as a freshman at UK. He was always a killer scorer. I was shocked to see him drop to #7. I really wanted the Magic to try and move up to draft him.

I'm right there with thelead. I've personally been obsessed with drafting scoring guards since 2013. From CJ McCollum in 2013, Lavine in 2014 with the #12, D'Angelo Russell in 2015, Murray in 2016, Dennis Smith in 2017, and Trae Young last year. The league has changed over this time span and given the guards so much more freedom of movement. And being able to hit a 3 off the dribble is one of the most lethal weapons in the league. This year, I think Coby White (and Darius Garland, I think) is going to have some success in the league.

It's pretty slim picking at #16, but the thought process should be similar.

I didnt watch a lot of Coby White, but when i did, he seemed to not be a great shooter and turned the ball over every other time he touched it. granted, i only saw about 7 games of UNC. But handles and decisions just seemed really bad


I thought his decision-making was lackluster as well, but that actually bodes well for his future. High turnover PGs tend to demonstrate more improvement in the long-term because that is a skill that is honed over time. I thought his ball handling was just fine, but he plays the game at a frenetic pace and teeters on the edge of being out of control.

What I like about him is that he has good vision, a short memory for his mistakes, an obvious confidence on the ball, and his shooting line was solid given his shot selection. I think there are a lot of tools there and that he will develop into a pretty good offensive player as he refines his skills. He also has enough size that you shouldn't have to worry about him being tagged as a combo guard.
Xatticus
Analyst
Posts: 3,644
And1: 3,410
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
         

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#31 » by Xatticus » Tue May 21, 2019 11:32 pm

Bakomagic wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
thelead wrote:
The pickings are slim on finding a great scorer in the mid first round but I would bet on his shooting percentages and Kentucky’s ability to pump out quality players.

you want a scorer, Carson Edwards. led the Big10 in scoring. would love him off the bench. And he does have stat that WeHam like, 6'1 with 6'6 wingspan


Just read that he is also around 200 lbs that’s a lot of length and strength for a guy who is 6 ft tall. He seems to be pretty athletic and he has a quick release on his jump shot. Doesn’t seem like much of a passer but may be a great scoring spark plug off the bench.

Would be great to get him in the second round. Would be cost effective if we can replace the production of DJ and Tross this draft with Guys like Edwards and K.Johnson we’d be paying a lot less than the 17 million we paid for Ross and DJ.


I wouldn't have any interest. Odds are long against players with his size. He doesn't have special athleticism. His finishing around the basket is really poor. His AST%/USG% was exceptionally poor for a PG. Basically all he has is his shot; which isn't really that special. Jawun Evans was a superior prospect that couldn't deal with the size, length, and athleticism of the NBA.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,202
And1: 8,014
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#32 » by Bensational » Tue May 21, 2019 11:42 pm

Kelson Johnson looks like he has a brute force game. He doesn't use his handles to find pockets of space, he just beats his man at the perimeter and then straight line drives into traffic, throws his body into the defender and then gets his shot up. If that translates to drawing contact and getting FTs in the NBA it could be huge. If not, it could result in a lot of charges, as we've seen from Gordon.

What's interesting about Kelson is that he likes to post up, too. But he has the speed to spin out of post ups into good layups at the rim. Post up guards are quite the dying art.

I'm not sure how high I am on Keldon, but if we drafted him I certainly wouldn't be upset.
User avatar
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 14,862
And1: 6,822
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#33 » by Skin » Wed May 22, 2019 12:09 am

Xatticus wrote:
Bakomagic wrote:
tiderulz wrote:you want a scorer, Carson Edwards. led the Big10 in scoring. would love him off the bench. And he does have stat that WeHam like, 6'1 with 6'6 wingspan


Just read that he is also around 200 lbs that’s a lot of length and strength for a guy who is 6 ft tall. He seems to be pretty athletic and he has a quick release on his jump shot. Doesn’t seem like much of a passer but may be a great scoring spark plug off the bench.

Would be great to get him in the second round. Would be cost effective if we can replace the production of DJ and Tross this draft with Guys like Edwards and K.Johnson we’d be paying a lot less than the 17 million we paid for Ross and DJ.


I wouldn't have any interest. Odds are long against players with his size. He doesn't have special athleticism. His finishing around the basket is really poor. His AST%/USG% was exceptionally poor for a PG. Basically all he has is his shot; which isn't really that special. Jawun Evans was a superior prospect that couldn't deal with the size, length, and athleticism of the NBA.

Watch him a little more. He's more than a shooter. He finishes dunks in traffic with authority. Plays super fast too. He's very decisive and plays with a lot of confidence. I was huge on Evans too, but he wasn't the scorer Edwards is. Edwards can carve a niche as a bench scorer at least to start his career. Evans could never do that. As far as heart, he's got some Jameer in him.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 26,990
And1: 4,056
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#34 » by drsd » Wed May 22, 2019 10:55 am

SOUL wrote:We need scoring more than shooting, IMO. Someone that can create his own shot and get to the line at will. We have nobody that can do that currently. Most scorers are able to shoot in time, but a shooter is more of a specialist and isn't always a great scorer.



Image
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,925
And1: 7,972
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#35 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 22, 2019 2:04 pm

drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:We need scoring more than shooting, IMO. Someone that can create his own shot and get to the line at will. We have nobody that can do that currently. Most scorers are able to shoot in time, but a shooter is more of a specialist and isn't always a great scorer.



Image


Who's that ? Never seen him play :lol:

shut out to unsigns heros who waste their life editing photos. That's some pretty great work there
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
j-ragg
RealGM
Posts: 16,428
And1: 9,928
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
Location: the don't re-sign Hedo bandwagon.
   

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#36 » by j-ragg » Wed May 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Washington Fultz would be exactly what this team needs fit wise. Guy was a great combination of ability to get to the line + >40% from 3.

Don't think I really see any wing creators where we are. NAW if he develops optimistically. I've always had a thing for Cam Reddish since high school, he has the talent but I don't know if he mentally has it to be a star in the league. Culver is overrated. Little is good but has never been that guy.
BadMofoPimp wrote:Durant thinks Vooch is one of the Best Centers in the NBA. I will take his word over a couch-GM yelling at a TV.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 28,829
And1: 10,128
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#37 » by tiderulz » Wed May 22, 2019 5:19 pm

j-ragg wrote:Washington Fultz would be exactly what this team needs fit wise. Guy was a great combination of ability to get to the line + >40% from 3.

Don't think I really see any wing creators where we are. NAW if he develops optimistically. I've always had a thing for Cam Reddish since high school, he has the talent but I don't know if he mentally has it to be a star in the league. Culver is overrated. Little is good but has never been that guy.

problem is, i dont think we ever see Washington Fultz. whether mental, change of his shot, whatever, that guy is a history footnote
Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 10,636
And1: 4,645
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#38 » by Nyce_1 » Wed May 22, 2019 6:34 pm

Solid Snake wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
Solid Snake wrote:If we're really moving on from vuc like that rumor said then Naz Reid intruiges me. Not many guys his size got those combination of skills, he can hit you inside and out plus he's pretty mobile and can handle the ball. Or we can get a guard at 16 and a big in the second.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
What rumor?
There was a post in the draft thread from some other teams board about some guy detailing rumors from various teams. What he said about us is that we might be looking at bruno Fernando at #16 and that word is we might be moving on from vuc because we've been working out a lot of centers apparently.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Sigh.

Thanks.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 26,990
And1: 4,056
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#39 » by drsd » Wed May 22, 2019 6:37 pm

tiderulz wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Washington Fultz would be exactly what this team needs fit wise. Guy was a great combination of ability to get to the line + >40% from 3.

Don't think I really see any wing creators where we are. NAW if he develops optimistically. I've always had a thing for Cam Reddish since high school, he has the talent but I don't know if he mentally has it to be a star in the league. Culver is overrated. Little is good but has never been that guy.

problem is, i dont think we ever see Washington Fultz. whether mental, change of his shot, whatever, that guy is a history footnote


This whole discussion was "Orlando needs a scorer not a shooter." That exists in Fultz.

Where I disagree is whether a scorer-vs-shooter argument is actually correct.

..
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 23,698
And1: 11,827
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: Listen Everyone... draft GUARDS THAT CAN SHOOT/SCORE 

Post#40 » by thelead » Mon May 27, 2019 1:43 am

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Washington Fultz would be exactly what this team needs fit wise. Guy was a great combination of ability to get to the line + >40% from 3.

Don't think I really see any wing creators where we are. NAW if he develops optimistically. I've always had a thing for Cam Reddish since high school, he has the talent but I don't know if he mentally has it to be a star in the league. Culver is overrated. Little is good but has never been that guy.

problem is, i dont think we ever see Washington Fultz. whether mental, change of his shot, whatever, that guy is a history footnote


This whole discussion was "Orlando needs a scorer not a shooter." That exists in Fultz.

Where I disagree is whether a scorer-vs-shooter argument is actually correct.

..

Even if Fultz pans out, and I really hope that he does, it would be nice to have more than just one consistent scorer from the wing.
Image

Return to Orlando Magic