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The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler

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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#21 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat May 25, 2019 3:56 pm

j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:There is no way we land DAngelo Russell. BKN landing Kevin Durant is an extremely long shot. Neither would Kyrie sign there.

My biggest hope is during any scenario, we resign Vuc and Ross, while gaining the key "All-Star" (Conley, Kemba, Russell).

I know it is a long shot. But that way, we can be better than this past season and go far in the Playoff. And possibly beat Toronto.

I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.


Sorry to break it to you, but you’re terribly off.

This doesn’t get us close at all and not even in the ballpark.

Renouncing everyone but Vucevic still puts over the cap around 4m

Renouncing both Vucevic and Ross puts us under the cap around 27m

Both scenarios include stretch and waiving Mosgov

A trade of one or both of Augustine and Fournier would have to happen.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#22 » by MasterGMer » Sat May 25, 2019 4:00 pm

OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:There is no way we land DAngelo Russell. BKN landing Kevin Durant is an extremely long shot. Neither would Kyrie sign there.

My biggest hope is during any scenario, we resign Vuc and Ross, while gaining the key "All-Star" (Conley, Kemba, Russell).

I know it is a long shot. But that way, we can be better than this past season and go far in the Playoff. And possibly beat Toronto.

I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.


we could also let go Grant's 3.7 million, Jerrell's 3.5 million, Stretch Mozgov would give us 11 million (maybe), Vuc's Cap hold is 19million. So I do not know where you got that 12 million figure. We have 83 million guaranteed contract 2019/20.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#23 » by BCS » Sat May 25, 2019 4:04 pm

S&T is the only viable way this happens. Kemba does not sign with us if we let Vuc and Ross go. He might consider us if we keep the main focal pieces on the team and add him. So something inclusive of Evan, DJ, Moz and future pick or picks as incentives is what we are looking at as I wouldn't touch any of our young guys to overpay Kemba.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#24 » by Nyce_1 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:07 pm

j-ragg wrote:Would be shocked if Kemba wanted to come here.
I wouldn't. Playoff team, he trains in Orlando during offseasons, and his strong ties to Cliff. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to join us.

Now, could we make competitive offer. Nah, I'd be shocked if we made a serious attempt.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#25 » by OrlandO » Sat May 25, 2019 4:08 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.


we could also let go Grant's 3.7 million, Jerrell's 3.5 million, Stretch Mozgov would give us 11 million (maybe), Vuc's Cap hold is 19million. So I do not know where you got that 12 million figure. We have 83 million guaranteed contract 2019/20.

That 12m figure includes renouncing grant, martin and mcw. You can free up a couple more million by renouncing iwundu and birch. Ross has a 15m cap hold, our 1st round pick has a cap hold, if we're renouncing guys then empty roster charges are also applied.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#26 » by j-ragg » Sat May 25, 2019 4:09 pm

OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:There is no way we land DAngelo Russell. BKN landing Kevin Durant is an extremely long shot. Neither would Kyrie sign there.

My biggest hope is during any scenario, we resign Vuc and Ross, while gaining the key "All-Star" (Conley, Kemba, Russell).

I know it is a long shot. But that way, we can be better than this past season and go far in the Playoff. And possibly beat Toronto.

I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:There is no way we land DAngelo Russell. BKN landing Kevin Durant is an extremely long shot. Neither would Kyrie sign there.

My biggest hope is during any scenario, we resign Vuc and Ross, while gaining the key "All-Star" (Conley, Kemba, Russell).

I know it is a long shot. But that way, we can be better than this past season and go far in the Playoff. And possibly beat Toronto.

I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.


Sorry to break it to you, but you’re terribly off.

This doesn’t get us close at all and not even in the ballpark.

Renouncing everyone but Vucevic still puts over the cap around 4m

Renouncing both Vucevic and Ross puts us under the cap around 27m

Both scenarios include stretch and waiving Mosgov

A trade of one or both of Augustine and Fournier would have to happen.

Hmm...

AG 19.8
EF 17
TM 5.6 (16.7 stretched)
Vuc renounced
TRoss 13 cap hold
MF 9.7
DJ 7.25
JI 5.8
MB 5.6
WI 1.6
MFjr 1.4
#16 2.1

= 88.85

1st year DAR max = 24.9 iirc

so we'd be at 113, the cap is at 109 isn't it? Decline Iwundu's option, waive Frazier and his beer belly and you're there. Unless I forgot someone/something which is definitely possible.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#27 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:11 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.


we could also let go Grant's 3.7 million, Jerrell's 3.5 million, Stretch Mozgov would give us 11 million (maybe), Vuc's Cap hold is 19million. So I do not know where you got that 12 million figure. We have 83 million guaranteed contract 2019/20.


Stretching Mozgov and renouncing everyone, but Vucevic, Birch and #16 still puts over the cap at 4m.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#28 » by MasterGMer » Sat May 25, 2019 4:14 pm

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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#29 » by Rainwater » Sat May 25, 2019 4:16 pm

This makes no sense for so many reasons. I don't get him signing here over Char unless the magic get a true superstar to pair up with him it would be basically the same team. The magic can't offer as much money as Char can. He kinda is on the old side by the time Magic are able to build something around him he might be leaving his prime.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#30 » by MasterGMer » Sat May 25, 2019 4:28 pm

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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#31 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:29 pm

j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.


Sorry to break it to you, but you’re terribly off.

This doesn’t get us close at all and not even in the ballpark.

Renouncing everyone but Vucevic still puts over the cap around 4m

Renouncing both Vucevic and Ross puts us under the cap around 27m

Both scenarios include stretch and waiving Mosgov

A trade of one or both of Augustine and Fournier would have to happen.

Hmm...

AG 19.8
EF 17
TM 5.6 (16.7 stretched)
Vuc renounced
TRoss 13 cap hold
MF 9.7
DJ 7.25
JI 5.8
MB 5.6
WI 1.6
MFjr 1.4
#16 2.1

= 88.85

1st year DAR max = 24.9 iirc

so we'd be at 113, the cap is at 109 isn't it? Decline Iwundu's option, waive Frazier and his beer belly and you're there. Unless I forgot someone/something which is definitely possible.


Didn’t know you were renouncing Ross instead of Vucevic regardless makes no difference.

Frazier’s fat belly is guaranteed money and no one is renouncing Iwunduds small cap hold, that would be idiotic.

Stretching Mozgov, renouncing Vucevic and keeping Ross cap hold (even renouncing Birch which I think is highly improbable) puts us at under the cap around 13m

Stretching Mozgov, renouncing Ross and keeping Vucevic cap hold (even renouncing Birch which I think is highly improbable) puts us over the cap around 3m

Stretching Mozgov, renouncing BOTH Ross and Vucevic cap hold’s (even renouncing Birch which I think is highly improbable) puts us under the cap around 27m

Again, regardless of the scenario a trade needs to happen to be real players in free agency because no one is coming to a depleted Magic team.

All my numbers could be verified via http://www.shamsports.com/capulator
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#32 » by OrlandO » Sat May 25, 2019 4:37 pm

j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I think Kyrie going to Brooklyn isn't that long of a shot. I think him returning to Boston is a long shot at this point. Russell at least somewhat has ties to the Orlando area from high school, and we wouldn't have to do that much to open up the salary. Stretching Mozgov and renouncing one of the 2 big cap holds gets us pretty close.

Renouncing the largest cap hold and stretching mozgov would still only leave us with like 12m of cap space.

Hmm...

AG 19.8
EF 17
TM 5.6 (16.7 stretched)
Vuc renounced
TRoss 13 cap hold
MF 9.7
DJ 7.25
JI 5.8
MB 5.6
WI 1.6
MFjr 1.4
#16 2.1

= 88.85

1st year DAR max = 24.9 iirc

so we'd be at 113, the cap is at 109 isn't it? Decline Iwundu's option, waive Frazier and his beer belly and you're there. Unless I forgot someone/something which is definitely possible.


AG 19.86
Fournier 17
MF 9.74
DJ 7.25
Isaac 5.8
Bamba 5.7
Iwundu 1.6
Frazier 1.4 (guaranteed, so waiving won't do anything)

Mozgov 5.57 (stretched)
Ross 15.75 (cap hold)

1st round pick (16) 3

empty roster charge #1 0.889
empty roster charge #2 0.889

Watson 0.333 (previously stretched)

Vuc (renounced)
Birch (renounced
MCW (renounced)
Grant (renounced)
Martin (renounced)

= about 94.8

Also, I believe a max for Russell actually starts at $27m.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#33 » by j-ragg » Sat May 25, 2019 4:49 pm

OrlandO wrote:snip

Yeah realized after I posted it I was looking in the 20-21 column for Frazier not the 19-20. Also feels like we stretched CJ Watson a decade ago. Why is Ross' cap hold 15.75? I thought it was 125% of their last season's salary but might've got that mixed up with rookie contract rules. Thanks for the breakdown either way, I appreciate the work. Looks like we'd probably have to do another big-ish move. Fournier or DJ for a non-gtd deal maybe.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#34 » by MasterGMer » Sat May 25, 2019 4:54 pm

How could Magic free up more salaries? If by trade, salaries equal on both sides, right? Trade for non-guaranteed contract? That is the only way?
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#35 » by j-ragg » Sat May 25, 2019 4:58 pm

MasterGMer wrote:How could Magic free up more salaries? If by trade, salaries equal on both sides, right? Trade for non-guaranteed contract? That is the only way?

Or trade to a team under the cap that can absorb a contract.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#36 » by MasterGMer » Sat May 25, 2019 4:59 pm

j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:How could Magic free up more salaries? If by trade, salaries equal on both sides, right? Trade for non-guaranteed contract? That is the only way?

Or trade to a team under the cap that can absorb a contract.


But we have to get salary back in return, right? That is how trade works.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#37 » by OrlandO » Sat May 25, 2019 5:02 pm

j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:snip

Yeah realized after I posted it I was looking in the 20-21 column for Frazier not the 19-20. Also feels like we stretched CJ Watson a decade ago. Why is Ross' cap hold 15.75? I thought it was 125% of their last season's salary but might've got that mixed up with rookie contract rules. Thanks for the breakdown either way, I appreciate the work. Looks like we'd probably have to do another big-ish move. Fournier or DJ for a non-gtd deal maybe.

I believe it has to do with Bird rights, so it's 150% of the previous salary. We could maybe convince him to sign for less than his cap hold though. We could technically clear space, but it just seems unlikely to work out as we'd have to get rid of a lot of contributing pieces and that's not going to go over well with a major free agent with plenty of options. Weltman is in a bit of a pickle... can't attract a big free agent unless you have money and a playoff team. We can realistically offer one, but not both imo.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#38 » by j-ragg » Sat May 25, 2019 5:02 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:How could Magic free up more salaries? If by trade, salaries equal on both sides, right? Trade for non-guaranteed contract? That is the only way?

Or trade to a team under the cap that can absorb a contract.


But we have to get salary back in return, right? That is how trade works.

Not equal salary if they're under the cap. We could trade a 10 million a year player for a minimum salary player if the other team is under the cap enough to absorb the difference. Or maybe technically we'd get a TPE back with the minimum salary player and we renounce that to get the space.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#39 » by j-ragg » Sat May 25, 2019 5:04 pm

OrlandO wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
OrlandO wrote:snip

Yeah realized after I posted it I was looking in the 20-21 column for Frazier not the 19-20. Also feels like we stretched CJ Watson a decade ago. Why is Ross' cap hold 15.75? I thought it was 125% of their last season's salary but might've got that mixed up with rookie contract rules. Thanks for the breakdown either way, I appreciate the work. Looks like we'd probably have to do another big-ish move. Fournier or DJ for a non-gtd deal maybe.

I believe it has to do with Bird rights, so it's 150% of the previous salary. We could maybe convince him to sign for less than his cap hold though. We could technically clear space, but it just seems unlikely to work out as we'd have to get rid of a lot of contributing pieces and that's not going to go over well with a major free agent with plenty of options. Weltman is in a bit of a pickle... can't attract a big free agent unless you have money and a playoff team. We can realistically offer one, but not both imo.

Fully agree, would be shocked if it did happen. Was just toying with ways to create space in that unlikely scenario. I wonder what Ross would sign for. Maybe a deal a little higher than his previous one? Like 3/36-40? Hard to predict.
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Re: The orlando magic are interested in signing kemba walker according too steve kyler 

Post#40 » by Xatticus » Sat May 25, 2019 5:04 pm

The NBA changed the way sign-and-trades work some time back to prevent teams from using bird rights to circumvent the salary cap. It seems likely that base year compensation would apply if Charlotte re-signed him with the intent to trade him. This would make it impossible to match salaries as Charlotte would only be able to take back roughly $12M in salary. Orlando would have to get well under the cap to take back the difference in salary by renouncing Ross and Vucevic.

Charlotte would have to avoid using Walker's bird rights to avoid the BYC rule, but they have roughly $65M in committed salaries next year plus another $28M in player options that will almost certainly get picked up. So that won't work unless Charlotte renounces all of their non-guaranteed deals and Walker agrees to sign for around $15M.

A sign-and-trade isn't an impossibility, but it wouldn't work out the way people are expecting. There is no scenario where we could end up with both Vucevic and Walker. The rule was implemented to prevent teams from doing precisely what is being proposed in this thread. The only incentive at that point would be to dump some salary on Charlotte, but why would they agree to a sign-and-trade for that purpose?

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