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D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related

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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#281 » by The Effect » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:52 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:Suns -> draft PG
Jazz -> targeting trade for Conley
Pacers -> targeting Rubio
Nets -> targeting Kyrie

Where does DLo end up?

pretty sure pacers would take dlo over rubio

Also, Dlo is good friends with KAT, so could see him trying to get to minn if they find a trade for wiggins
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#282 » by ezzzp » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:41 pm

Q&A about Fultz on Reddit with a medical professional specializing in Neurology and Trauma. He has treated patients with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS).

Thoracic Outlet Syndrome" refers to the "neurovascular bundle" that is known as the "Thoracic Outlet". "Thoracic outlet" = The main vein, artery, and nerve that goes down your arm. Those three things are what make up the "Thoracic Outlet".

When this nerve is squeezed by surrounding tissue (muscle, bone, etc.), it can have nasty effects like numbness/tingling/pain and loss of motion in the arm. Being that the shoulder is a very complex joint, there are a lot of different ways in which this "squeezing of the nerve" can happen. How does the surrounding tissue "squeeze" the nerve? Well, a few different ways, but more than likely, Fultz issue stems from taking 1000+ shots a day with poor body mechanics (this assumption is unfounded, but very likely the case). This repetitive shooting motion caused his muscle/bone to rub together a bit too much inside of his shoulder. This rubbing caused irritation, and when things get irritated, they SWELL UP. This swelling "squeezes" the nerve in his shoulder, which causes his arm to have all sorts of funky effects like pain, numbness and restricted motion.

They are most likely working with him to fix the surrounding issues of swelling, so that the nerve is no longer being "squeezed". This might involve making small changes to his posture and shooting form, but it could also involve an invasive surgery down the road.

I'll add that I am overall VERY optimistic about his outlook. I believe he is going to get the best care anybody has ever had when it comes to his TOS, and I personally expect him to be back and playing bball with no problems in the future. His shot might take some time to develop, but the rest of his game(and his off-hand) has only had time to improve since his injury was diagnosed.

I'll bet we see Fultz return to be a very good player with a slightly limited shot. As time goes on, his shot will develop and eventually he will be shooting the ball well again. Right now he has the opportunity to focus on so many other parts of his game, and his shot is just going to be put on the back-burner while he rehabs his TOS.


Do you believe markelle has TOS and do you forsee him being available by the beginning of the season based on people you've rehabbed?

He was diagnosed with TOS, so yes I do. Though I don't know any details, I am incredibly optimistic about his rehab. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the court next season. I think the challenge he faces is avoiding the reaggravation of his injury.


How does therapy help with treating TOS? Is their severity levels to TOS?

Therapy typically revolves around stretching and strengthening areas of the neck and shoulder with the goal of releasing tension around the injury. This is in addition to correcting posture and making small changes to body mechanics in hopes to permanently "fix" the issue.

TOS does vary in severity, yes. I don't know exactly what the details are with Fultz, but it's safe to assume his problem stems from repetitive overhead motion(shooting), and more than likely his TOS is because the nerve that goes down his arm is being "squeezed" by the surrounding tissue, whether it's because of severe inflammation, or because his bones/muscles are obstructing the pathway of the nerve.


How does it feel to have TOS? Is it painful with movement or do you feel something all the time? Is it restrictive or do you just feel a sharp pain when trying to use force through the area?

The pain/sensory issues can vary greatly depending how severe the injury is.

It can feel like numbness/tingling in your fingertips, it can be a shooting pain/numbness down the entire arm, and it can be painful in the shoulder region where the actual injury is. If it's bad enough, the arm can become totally immobile. Symptoms can get better and worse as well. The idea of the arm feeling like it's "asleep" is not too far off, though I wouldn't say it's totally accurate. The pain/sensory loss can intensify with movement, yes. Typically an overhead movement of the arm will cause symptoms to intensify. Depending on the mechanism of injury, there can be a sharp pain in the shoulder region when doing strenuous activity, yes.


How likely is surgery to fix TOS, and is it a viable to everyone who has it?

Surgery is typically reserved for those suffering from TOS who also have an "extra rib" on the top part of the rib cage. This rib can out added pressure on the thoracic outlet which is the main cause of the injury in those cases. Surgery is also the last option once conservative treatment has failed to relieve symptoms. The surgery involved removing the extra rib entirely to create space for the nerve/vein/artery. There is a lot more to it, but that's the basic idea. The good news is that the research suggests that surgical intervention typically yields positive results 91-93% of the time. But the long term outlook (10+ years) will see many patients regress and symptoms can resurface.


It seems like his shooting movement is unencumbered at times and others it seems like he’s struggling through his shot and his form gets very labored and hitchy. And it seems like that can go back and forth for him even from possession to possession. Is it possible that TOS is causing him pain/discomfort in a sporadic way? (Ie. Markelle’s shoulder feels fine one possession but is painful/discomforting the next)

From what I've seen, either the shoulder is aggravated and it will be consistently painful, or there will be certain movements that cause a "stabbing" pain, which could very well be the case with the hitch he has from time to time. The shoulder is the most flexible joint in the body, and there is an incredible amount of movement involved when playing bball, so it wouldn't be surprising to see his form look great one second and then have it look terrible the next depending on what the player is trying to do in the moment. It would be weird to see him shoot one "normal" free throw, followed by one "hitch" freethrow. In theory, his form would be exactly the same for each free throw, so the mechanics shouldn't change. If the mechanics aren't changing, then the shot should be the same for both shots - either normal, or "hitched".....but this is just my opinion based on theory.


Can TOS be the reason of Markelle spasms in the facial and whole body area ? ( many videos during games and interviews)

TOS would not be the cause of any spasms in his face.


After he was drafted it seems like he changed his shot a lot that summer? Is it likely that changing his shot mechanics contributed to the injury or do you think he changed his mechanic BECAUSE of an existing injury?

If I had to guess, I'd say he changed his shot mechanics in order to make an improvement to his game, and this "new" movement caused massive irritation to his shoulder (too much change too soon). More than likely, the dude was putting up 1000+ shots a day to engrain an improved shooting form into his muscle memory. This is a huge stress load to put on the body, like Bambas stress fractures, he just wasn't ready for so much so soon.


Is it true the diagnosis of TOS is typically diagnosed via ruling out other diagnosis, rather than getting a positive confirmation of TOS? Also, in your medical opinion, does Markelle's ability to dunk the ball (seemingly without pain) give you pause as to whether the injury is indeed TOS?

There is no doubt it's TOS. A neurologist diagnosed it as TOS. It is TOS. There are a number of things that cause similar symptoms as TOS, and TOS is more rare than, say, a disc herniation, or tendonitis. Initial treatment for these types of symptoms often is the same - rest, ice, stretching, etc. Being able to dunk the ball does not rule out TOS. His issue could stem from a very specific movement (like his shooting form), and he could experience symptoms exclusively from that movement alone, while still having no issue raising his arm above his head to dunk.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#283 » by Nyce_1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:09 am

That's really interesting stuff about TOS. We all pray a favorable outcome is in store for Kelle.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#284 » by basketballRob » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 am

pepe1991 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Not really, some teams might value fact that trade for him will mean $17M in cap space freed next summer :dontknow:


with a poor FA class we'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder and x overpaid but at least plays player. I wouldn't be shocked if he just finishes the year out in orlando

Moz & Biyombo were likely the 2 worst C contracts and we've been so lucky to have both of them on our team


Don't forget Ian Mahinmi
Noah and Parsons.

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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#285 » by Skin » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:30 am

Nyce_1 wrote:Suns -> draft PG
Jazz -> targeting trade for Conley
Pacers -> targeting Rubio
Nets -> targeting Kyrie

Where does DLo end up?

Possibly Boston or even Miami.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#286 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 am

Oh man late night Capulator moves.

Trade 2020 1st round & EF for JR Smith.

Waive JR, Stretch and Waive Moz. Renounce Martin, Vuc, MCW, Grant.

Magic keep Cap Holds for Birch and TRoss with 26.8M in Cap Space.

Sign DLo, go over for TRoss 3or4 yr 10-12M & Birch 3 year 4M deal and Boom!!

DLo
TRoss
JI
AG
Birch

Bamba DJ Iwundu 16th pick 46th pick
LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC... CAN’T SHOOT
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#287 » by swarlesbarkley » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:37 pm

What was the worse trade:

Lakers sending D'Lo to the Nets for 2017 #27 (Kuzma)
Magic sending Oladipo to Thunder for Ibaka (which we turned into Ross)

Funny that I'm reading/hearing now that Lakers might sign D'Lo if he becomes a FA.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#288 » by swarlesbarkley » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:38 pm

Man, D'Lo is only 23 years old. Seems like he's late 20s already but I guess that's what all the media attention in LA gets you.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#289 » by Nyce_1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 pm

@gswchris: Woj says that if Nets don't land another star with Kyrie that they'll just keep D'Angelo Russell instead. Brooklyn isn't sold on Kyrie's ability to run a team alone.

Read on Twitter
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#290 » by j-ragg » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:38 pm

I wonder if the Nets would think of JJ highly enough to seek him out and renounce DAR. Who knows. Joe Harris is kind of their version of JJ already.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#291 » by OrlandoNed » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:46 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:@gswchris: Woj says that if Nets don't land another star with Kyrie that they'll just keep D'Angelo Russell instead. Brooklyn isn't sold on Kyrie's ability to run a team alone.

Read on Twitter

Make the Nets put their money where their mouth is. If anybody wants him they need to sign him 6:00 on the dot and put Brooklyn on the clock.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#292 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:43 pm

ezzzp wrote:Q&A about Fultz on Reddit with a medical professional specializing in Neurology and Trauma. He has treated patients with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS).

Thoracic Outlet Syndrome" refers to the "neurovascular bundle" that is known as the "Thoracic Outlet". "Thoracic outlet" = The main vein, artery, and nerve that goes down your arm. Those three things are what make up the "Thoracic Outlet".

When this nerve is squeezed by surrounding tissue (muscle, bone, etc.), it can have nasty effects like numbness/tingling/pain and loss of motion in the arm. Being that the shoulder is a very complex joint, there are a lot of different ways in which this "squeezing of the nerve" can happen. How does the surrounding tissue "squeeze" the nerve? Well, a few different ways, but more than likely, Fultz issue stems from taking 1000+ shots a day with poor body mechanics (this assumption is unfounded, but very likely the case). This repetitive shooting motion caused his muscle/bone to rub together a bit too much inside of his shoulder. This rubbing caused irritation, and when things get irritated, they SWELL UP. This swelling "squeezes" the nerve in his shoulder, which causes his arm to have all sorts of funky effects like pain, numbness and restricted motion.

They are most likely working with him to fix the surrounding issues of swelling, so that the nerve is no longer being "squeezed". This might involve making small changes to his posture and shooting form, but it could also involve an invasive surgery down the road.

I'll add that I am overall VERY optimistic about his outlook. I believe he is going to get the best care anybody has ever had when it comes to his TOS, and I personally expect him to be back and playing bball with no problems in the future. His shot might take some time to develop, but the rest of his game(and his off-hand) has only had time to improve since his injury was diagnosed.

I'll bet we see Fultz return to be a very good player with a slightly limited shot. As time goes on, his shot will develop and eventually he will be shooting the ball well again. Right now he has the opportunity to focus on so many other parts of his game, and his shot is just going to be put on the back-burner while he rehabs his TOS.


Do you believe markelle has TOS and do you forsee him being available by the beginning of the season based on people you've rehabbed?

He was diagnosed with TOS, so yes I do. Though I don't know any details, I am incredibly optimistic about his rehab. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the court next season. I think the challenge he faces is avoiding the reaggravation of his injury.


How does therapy help with treating TOS? Is their severity levels to TOS?

Therapy typically revolves around stretching and strengthening areas of the neck and shoulder with the goal of releasing tension around the injury. This is in addition to correcting posture and making small changes to body mechanics in hopes to permanently "fix" the issue.

TOS does vary in severity, yes. I don't know exactly what the details are with Fultz, but it's safe to assume his problem stems from repetitive overhead motion(shooting), and more than likely his TOS is because the nerve that goes down his arm is being "squeezed" by the surrounding tissue, whether it's because of severe inflammation, or because his bones/muscles are obstructing the pathway of the nerve.


How does it feel to have TOS? Is it painful with movement or do you feel something all the time? Is it restrictive or do you just feel a sharp pain when trying to use force through the area?

The pain/sensory issues can vary greatly depending how severe the injury is.

It can feel like numbness/tingling in your fingertips, it can be a shooting pain/numbness down the entire arm, and it can be painful in the shoulder region where the actual injury is. If it's bad enough, the arm can become totally immobile. Symptoms can get better and worse as well. The idea of the arm feeling like it's "asleep" is not too far off, though I wouldn't say it's totally accurate. The pain/sensory loss can intensify with movement, yes. Typically an overhead movement of the arm will cause symptoms to intensify. Depending on the mechanism of injury, there can be a sharp pain in the shoulder region when doing strenuous activity, yes.


How likely is surgery to fix TOS, and is it a viable to everyone who has it?

Surgery is typically reserved for those suffering from TOS who also have an "extra rib" on the top part of the rib cage. This rib can out added pressure on the thoracic outlet which is the main cause of the injury in those cases. Surgery is also the last option once conservative treatment has failed to relieve symptoms. The surgery involved removing the extra rib entirely to create space for the nerve/vein/artery. There is a lot more to it, but that's the basic idea. The good news is that the research suggests that surgical intervention typically yields positive results 91-93% of the time. But the long term outlook (10+ years) will see many patients regress and symptoms can resurface.


It seems like his shooting movement is unencumbered at times and others it seems like he’s struggling through his shot and his form gets very labored and hitchy. And it seems like that can go back and forth for him even from possession to possession. Is it possible that TOS is causing him pain/discomfort in a sporadic way? (Ie. Markelle’s shoulder feels fine one possession but is painful/discomforting the next)

From what I've seen, either the shoulder is aggravated and it will be consistently painful, or there will be certain movements that cause a "stabbing" pain, which could very well be the case with the hitch he has from time to time. The shoulder is the most flexible joint in the body, and there is an incredible amount of movement involved when playing bball, so it wouldn't be surprising to see his form look great one second and then have it look terrible the next depending on what the player is trying to do in the moment. It would be weird to see him shoot one "normal" free throw, followed by one "hitch" freethrow. In theory, his form would be exactly the same for each free throw, so the mechanics shouldn't change. If the mechanics aren't changing, then the shot should be the same for both shots - either normal, or "hitched".....but this is just my opinion based on theory.


Can TOS be the reason of Markelle spasms in the facial and whole body area ? ( many videos during games and interviews)

TOS would not be the cause of any spasms in his face.


After he was drafted it seems like he changed his shot a lot that summer? Is it likely that changing his shot mechanics contributed to the injury or do you think he changed his mechanic BECAUSE of an existing injury?

If I had to guess, I'd say he changed his shot mechanics in order to make an improvement to his game, and this "new" movement caused massive irritation to his shoulder (too much change too soon). More than likely, the dude was putting up 1000+ shots a day to engrain an improved shooting form into his muscle memory. This is a huge stress load to put on the body, like Bambas stress fractures, he just wasn't ready for so much so soon.


Is it true the diagnosis of TOS is typically diagnosed via ruling out other diagnosis, rather than getting a positive confirmation of TOS? Also, in your medical opinion, does Markelle's ability to dunk the ball (seemingly without pain) give you pause as to whether the injury is indeed TOS?

There is no doubt it's TOS. A neurologist diagnosed it as TOS. It is TOS. There are a number of things that cause similar symptoms as TOS, and TOS is more rare than, say, a disc herniation, or tendonitis. Initial treatment for these types of symptoms often is the same - rest, ice, stretching, etc. Being able to dunk the ball does not rule out TOS. His issue could stem from a very specific movement (like his shooting form), and he could experience symptoms exclusively from that movement alone, while still having no issue raising his arm above his head to dunk.

Awesome read! But i remember mentioning that a summer of 1000 daily shots could totally do that as muscles become bigger or just inflamed.

So literally this could have happened because he strived to be his best for his team. :love: lol... like him even more now! :lol:
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#293 » by Tarheel » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:51 pm

Conley to Utah - one less team in the running for DLo
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#294 » by Nyce_1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:54 pm

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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#295 » by Audi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:00 pm

ezzzp wrote:Q&A about Fultz on Reddit with a medical professional specializing in Neurology and Trauma. He has treated patients with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS).

Spoiler:
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome" refers to the "neurovascular bundle" that is known as the "Thoracic Outlet". "Thoracic outlet" = The main vein, artery, and nerve that goes down your arm. Those three things are what make up the "Thoracic Outlet".

When this nerve is squeezed by surrounding tissue (muscle, bone, etc.), it can have nasty effects like numbness/tingling/pain and loss of motion in the arm. Being that the shoulder is a very complex joint, there are a lot of different ways in which this "squeezing of the nerve" can happen. How does the surrounding tissue "squeeze" the nerve? Well, a few different ways, but more than likely, Fultz issue stems from taking 1000+ shots a day with poor body mechanics (this assumption is unfounded, but very likely the case). This repetitive shooting motion caused his muscle/bone to rub together a bit too much inside of his shoulder. This rubbing caused irritation, and when things get irritated, they SWELL UP. This swelling "squeezes" the nerve in his shoulder, which causes his arm to have all sorts of funky effects like pain, numbness and restricted motion.

They are most likely working with him to fix the surrounding issues of swelling, so that the nerve is no longer being "squeezed". This might involve making small changes to his posture and shooting form, but it could also involve an invasive surgery down the road.

I'll add that I am overall VERY optimistic about his outlook. I believe he is going to get the best care anybody has ever had when it comes to his TOS, and I personally expect him to be back and playing bball with no problems in the future. His shot might take some time to develop, but the rest of his game(and his off-hand) has only had time to improve since his injury was diagnosed.

I'll bet we see Fultz return to be a very good player with a slightly limited shot. As time goes on, his shot will develop and eventually he will be shooting the ball well again. Right now he has the opportunity to focus on so many other parts of his game, and his shot is just going to be put on the back-burner while he rehabs his TOS.


Do you believe markelle has TOS and do you forsee him being available by the beginning of the season based on people you've rehabbed?

He was diagnosed with TOS, so yes I do. Though I don't know any details, I am incredibly optimistic about his rehab. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the court next season. I think the challenge he faces is avoiding the reaggravation of his injury.


How does therapy help with treating TOS? Is their severity levels to TOS?

Therapy typically revolves around stretching and strengthening areas of the neck and shoulder with the goal of releasing tension around the injury. This is in addition to correcting posture and making small changes to body mechanics in hopes to permanently "fix" the issue.

TOS does vary in severity, yes. I don't know exactly what the details are with Fultz, but it's safe to assume his problem stems from repetitive overhead motion(shooting), and more than likely his TOS is because the nerve that goes down his arm is being "squeezed" by the surrounding tissue, whether it's because of severe inflammation, or because his bones/muscles are obstructing the pathway of the nerve.


How does it feel to have TOS? Is it painful with movement or do you feel something all the time? Is it restrictive or do you just feel a sharp pain when trying to use force through the area?

The pain/sensory issues can vary greatly depending how severe the injury is.

It can feel like numbness/tingling in your fingertips, it can be a shooting pain/numbness down the entire arm, and it can be painful in the shoulder region where the actual injury is. If it's bad enough, the arm can become totally immobile. Symptoms can get better and worse as well. The idea of the arm feeling like it's "asleep" is not too far off, though I wouldn't say it's totally accurate. The pain/sensory loss can intensify with movement, yes. Typically an overhead movement of the arm will cause symptoms to intensify. Depending on the mechanism of injury, there can be a sharp pain in the shoulder region when doing strenuous activity, yes.


How likely is surgery to fix TOS, and is it a viable to everyone who has it?

Surgery is typically reserved for those suffering from TOS who also have an "extra rib" on the top part of the rib cage. This rib can out added pressure on the thoracic outlet which is the main cause of the injury in those cases. Surgery is also the last option once conservative treatment has failed to relieve symptoms. The surgery involved removing the extra rib entirely to create space for the nerve/vein/artery. There is a lot more to it, but that's the basic idea. The good news is that the research suggests that surgical intervention typically yields positive results 91-93% of the time. But the long term outlook (10+ years) will see many patients regress and symptoms can resurface.


It seems like his shooting movement is unencumbered at times and others it seems like he’s struggling through his shot and his form gets very labored and hitchy. And it seems like that can go back and forth for him even from possession to possession. Is it possible that TOS is causing him pain/discomfort in a sporadic way? (Ie. Markelle’s shoulder feels fine one possession but is painful/discomforting the next)

From what I've seen, either the shoulder is aggravated and it will be consistently painful, or there will be certain movements that cause a "stabbing" pain, which could very well be the case with the hitch he has from time to time. The shoulder is the most flexible joint in the body, and there is an incredible amount of movement involved when playing bball, so it wouldn't be surprising to see his form look great one second and then have it look terrible the next depending on what the player is trying to do in the moment. It would be weird to see him shoot one "normal" free throw, followed by one "hitch" freethrow. In theory, his form would be exactly the same for each free throw, so the mechanics shouldn't change. If the mechanics aren't changing, then the shot should be the same for both shots - either normal, or "hitched".....but this is just my opinion based on theory.


Can TOS be the reason of Markelle spasms in the facial and whole body area ? ( many videos during games and interviews)

TOS would not be the cause of any spasms in his face.


After he was drafted it seems like he changed his shot a lot that summer? Is it likely that changing his shot mechanics contributed to the injury or do you think he changed his mechanic BECAUSE of an existing injury?

If I had to guess, I'd say he changed his shot mechanics in order to make an improvement to his game, and this "new" movement caused massive irritation to his shoulder (too much change too soon). More than likely, the dude was putting up 1000+ shots a day to engrain an improved shooting form into his muscle memory. This is a huge stress load to put on the body, like Bambas stress fractures, he just wasn't ready for so much so soon.


Is it true the diagnosis of TOS is typically diagnosed via ruling out other diagnosis, rather than getting a positive confirmation of TOS? Also, in your medical opinion, does Markelle's ability to dunk the ball (seemingly without pain) give you pause as to whether the injury is indeed TOS?

There is no doubt it's TOS. A neurologist diagnosed it as TOS. It is TOS. There are a number of things that cause similar symptoms as TOS, and TOS is more rare than, say, a disc herniation, or tendonitis. Initial treatment for these types of symptoms often is the same - rest, ice, stretching, etc. Being able to dunk the ball does not rule out TOS. His issue could stem from a very specific movement (like his shooting form), and he could experience symptoms exclusively from that movement alone, while still having no issue raising his arm above his head to dunk.


Such a great find. The fact that they verified this guy's creds even more so. Should be another nail in the coffin of the unbelievers.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#296 » by pepe1991 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:22 pm

I would bet everything that not a single basketball player E V E R shot 1000 shots in one day, let alone every day.

It's such a stupid " look, i'm hardcore guy" crap that it's pointless to even argue.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#297 » by Nyce_1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:25 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I would bet everything that not a single basketball player E V E R shot 1000 shots in one day, let alone every day.

It's such a stupid " look, i'm hardcore guy" crap that it's pointless to even argue.
Kobe easy shot 1k/day. If I remember accurately, Ray Allen would MAKE 1000 3s for a workout.

U underestimate how hard these guys practice to perfect their shots.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#298 » by magicman112 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:32 pm

Audi wrote:
ezzzp wrote:Q&A about Fultz on Reddit with a medical professional specializing in Neurology and Trauma. He has treated patients with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS).

Spoiler:
Thoracic Outlet Syndrome" refers to the "neurovascular bundle" that is known as the "Thoracic Outlet". "Thoracic outlet" = The main vein, artery, and nerve that goes down your arm. Those three things are what make up the "Thoracic Outlet".

When this nerve is squeezed by surrounding tissue (muscle, bone, etc.), it can have nasty effects like numbness/tingling/pain and loss of motion in the arm. Being that the shoulder is a very complex joint, there are a lot of different ways in which this "squeezing of the nerve" can happen. How does the surrounding tissue "squeeze" the nerve? Well, a few different ways, but more than likely, Fultz issue stems from taking 1000+ shots a day with poor body mechanics (this assumption is unfounded, but very likely the case). This repetitive shooting motion caused his muscle/bone to rub together a bit too much inside of his shoulder. This rubbing caused irritation, and when things get irritated, they SWELL UP. This swelling "squeezes" the nerve in his shoulder, which causes his arm to have all sorts of funky effects like pain, numbness and restricted motion.

They are most likely working with him to fix the surrounding issues of swelling, so that the nerve is no longer being "squeezed". This might involve making small changes to his posture and shooting form, but it could also involve an invasive surgery down the road.

I'll add that I am overall VERY optimistic about his outlook. I believe he is going to get the best care anybody has ever had when it comes to his TOS, and I personally expect him to be back and playing bball with no problems in the future. His shot might take some time to develop, but the rest of his game(and his off-hand) has only had time to improve since his injury was diagnosed.

I'll bet we see Fultz return to be a very good player with a slightly limited shot. As time goes on, his shot will develop and eventually he will be shooting the ball well again. Right now he has the opportunity to focus on so many other parts of his game, and his shot is just going to be put on the back-burner while he rehabs his TOS.


Do you believe markelle has TOS and do you forsee him being available by the beginning of the season based on people you've rehabbed?

He was diagnosed with TOS, so yes I do. Though I don't know any details, I am incredibly optimistic about his rehab. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the court next season. I think the challenge he faces is avoiding the reaggravation of his injury.


How does therapy help with treating TOS? Is their severity levels to TOS?

Therapy typically revolves around stretching and strengthening areas of the neck and shoulder with the goal of releasing tension around the injury. This is in addition to correcting posture and making small changes to body mechanics in hopes to permanently "fix" the issue.

TOS does vary in severity, yes. I don't know exactly what the details are with Fultz, but it's safe to assume his problem stems from repetitive overhead motion(shooting), and more than likely his TOS is because the nerve that goes down his arm is being "squeezed" by the surrounding tissue, whether it's because of severe inflammation, or because his bones/muscles are obstructing the pathway of the nerve.


How does it feel to have TOS? Is it painful with movement or do you feel something all the time? Is it restrictive or do you just feel a sharp pain when trying to use force through the area?

The pain/sensory issues can vary greatly depending how severe the injury is.

It can feel like numbness/tingling in your fingertips, it can be a shooting pain/numbness down the entire arm, and it can be painful in the shoulder region where the actual injury is. If it's bad enough, the arm can become totally immobile. Symptoms can get better and worse as well. The idea of the arm feeling like it's "asleep" is not too far off, though I wouldn't say it's totally accurate. The pain/sensory loss can intensify with movement, yes. Typically an overhead movement of the arm will cause symptoms to intensify. Depending on the mechanism of injury, there can be a sharp pain in the shoulder region when doing strenuous activity, yes.


How likely is surgery to fix TOS, and is it a viable to everyone who has it?

Surgery is typically reserved for those suffering from TOS who also have an "extra rib" on the top part of the rib cage. This rib can out added pressure on the thoracic outlet which is the main cause of the injury in those cases. Surgery is also the last option once conservative treatment has failed to relieve symptoms. The surgery involved removing the extra rib entirely to create space for the nerve/vein/artery. There is a lot more to it, but that's the basic idea. The good news is that the research suggests that surgical intervention typically yields positive results 91-93% of the time. But the long term outlook (10+ years) will see many patients regress and symptoms can resurface.


It seems like his shooting movement is unencumbered at times and others it seems like he’s struggling through his shot and his form gets very labored and hitchy. And it seems like that can go back and forth for him even from possession to possession. Is it possible that TOS is causing him pain/discomfort in a sporadic way? (Ie. Markelle’s shoulder feels fine one possession but is painful/discomforting the next)

From what I've seen, either the shoulder is aggravated and it will be consistently painful, or there will be certain movements that cause a "stabbing" pain, which could very well be the case with the hitch he has from time to time. The shoulder is the most flexible joint in the body, and there is an incredible amount of movement involved when playing bball, so it wouldn't be surprising to see his form look great one second and then have it look terrible the next depending on what the player is trying to do in the moment. It would be weird to see him shoot one "normal" free throw, followed by one "hitch" freethrow. In theory, his form would be exactly the same for each free throw, so the mechanics shouldn't change. If the mechanics aren't changing, then the shot should be the same for both shots - either normal, or "hitched".....but this is just my opinion based on theory.


Can TOS be the reason of Markelle spasms in the facial and whole body area ? ( many videos during games and interviews)

TOS would not be the cause of any spasms in his face.


After he was drafted it seems like he changed his shot a lot that summer? Is it likely that changing his shot mechanics contributed to the injury or do you think he changed his mechanic BECAUSE of an existing injury?

If I had to guess, I'd say he changed his shot mechanics in order to make an improvement to his game, and this "new" movement caused massive irritation to his shoulder (too much change too soon). More than likely, the dude was putting up 1000+ shots a day to engrain an improved shooting form into his muscle memory. This is a huge stress load to put on the body, like Bambas stress fractures, he just wasn't ready for so much so soon.


Is it true the diagnosis of TOS is typically diagnosed via ruling out other diagnosis, rather than getting a positive confirmation of TOS? Also, in your medical opinion, does Markelle's ability to dunk the ball (seemingly without pain) give you pause as to whether the injury is indeed TOS?

There is no doubt it's TOS. A neurologist diagnosed it as TOS. It is TOS. There are a number of things that cause similar symptoms as TOS, and TOS is more rare than, say, a disc herniation, or tendonitis. Initial treatment for these types of symptoms often is the same - rest, ice, stretching, etc. Being able to dunk the ball does not rule out TOS. His issue could stem from a very specific movement (like his shooting form), and he could experience symptoms exclusively from that movement alone, while still having no issue raising his arm above his head to dunk.


Such a great find. The fact that they verified this guy's creds even more so. Should be another nail in the coffin of the unbelievers.


I looked it up and two professional athletes one in the NHL and one in MLB were diagnosed with this and both came back and performed as well as they had before if not better after therapy.
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#299 » by pepe1991 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:09 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I would bet everything that not a single basketball player E V E R shot 1000 shots in one day, let alone every day.

It's such a stupid " look, i'm hardcore guy" crap that it's pointless to even argue.
Kobe easy shot 1k/day. If I remember accurately, Ray Allen would MAKE 1000 3s for a workout.

U underestimate how hard these guys practice to perfect their shots.


Try to shoot 100 FTs ( let alone threes) to see how sore you will be after.
Now imagine repeating 10 more times.

It's complete overkill that leads to overtrain, that happends to be counter-productive to improvment, muscle gain and actually leads to fatigue that increeses injury risk.
i belive Kobe was hard worker but i also think most of stories about pro athletes are overblown over time.

Is it possible to shoot 1000 shots? Sure, will it really improve you somehow? Not really, after some time your arms will hurt and your body will seak ways how to cheat and it will be complete waste of time and even harmful.

First thing you learn from pro coaches is that "giving 100% every pratcice" is nothing but nice thing to say to sell merch and sport drinks, not thing that people actually do.

"Kobe is hardest worker out there"

Image

Image

yet in middle of summer guy got literally fat, during his active basketball career. So there goes whole "every day kill yourself "theory

*both pics taken 58 days before training camp during his active nba career *


I know lot of athletes want to tell you how hard they worked and that's why they succeed ( and they did ) but in reality, most of elite athletes have simply natural born gift that it's impossible to match. That's why you have kids like Siakam that start to play basketball at age of 17 and by the age of 23 are elite nba players, yet you have kids who play since age of 6 and get any good.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
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Re: D'Lo Watch: All things D'Lo related 

Post#300 » by Audi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:20 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I would bet everything that not a single basketball player E V E R shot 1000 shots in one day, let alone every day.

It's such a stupid " look, i'm hardcore guy" crap that it's pointless to even argue.
Kobe easy shot 1k/day. If I remember accurately, Ray Allen would MAKE 1000 3s for a workout.

U underestimate how hard these guys practice to perfect their shots.


Try to shoot 100 FTs ( let alone threes) to see how sore you will be after.
Now imagine repeating 10 more times.

It's complete overkill that leads to overtrain, that happends to be counter-productive to improvment, muscle gain and actually leads to fatigue that increeses injury risk.
i belive Kobe was hard worker but i also think most of stories about pro athletes are overblown over time.

Is it possible to shoot 1000 shots? Sure, will it really improve you somehow? Not really, after some time your arms will hurt and your body will seak ways how to cheat and it will be complete waste of time and even harmful.

First thing you learn from pro coaches is that "giving 100% every pratcice" is nothing but nice thing to say to sell merch and sport drinks, not thing that people actually do.

"Kobe is hardest worker out there"

Image

Image

yet in middle of summer guy got literally fat, during his active basketball career. So there goes whole "every day kill yourself "theory

*both pics taken 58 days before training camp during his active nba career *


I know lot of athletes want to tell you how hard they worked and that's why they succeed ( and they did ) but in reality, most of elite athletes have simply natural born gift that it's impossible to match. That's why you have kids like Siakam that start to play basketball at age of 17 and by the age of 23 are elite nba players, yet you have kids who play since age of 6 and get any good.


Jay-Z played pro ball? :lol:
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