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Markelle Fultz rehab and progress

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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#541 » by drsd » Thu Aug 1, 2019 9:54 am

MagicFrenchie wrote:I'm excited.


Post of the off-season !


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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#542 » by Skybox » Thu Aug 1, 2019 10:17 am

Howard Mass wrote:
Magic4champ wrote:
thelead wrote:
This is what some people don't understand. We dumped Simmons and traded away two 2nd round picks for, at the very least, a young solid backup PG. In what world is that bad for a team trying to build upon their first playoff bid in almost a decade?

Comparing our backup PG from last season. Briscoe as a backup with a broken shot and bad freethrow shooter. And when he replaced Grant and traded away Simmons we turned it around and became the hottest team by the last month of the regular season.

If coach Cliff was able to put Briscoe in place where he can succeed. No reason it's not gonna work for Fultz. MCW as the replacement of Briscoe also contributed with him having a broken shot. I think the system of Cliff can absorb the offensive limitations of these backups.


This is a VERY good point and we haven't even seen Fultz's jump shot.


I think it WOULD be a great point if Markelle will play with limitations. I’ve been saying he’s better than Exum today, for example. My concern is that he won’t play without a full recovery. His pride and insecurity and the Magic’s patience might result in a permanent recovery....certainly not my hope or even prediction...being #1 overall, hearing all the “bust” stuff, ultra-sensitive- I think it will be hard to get him on the court until he’s “ perfect”. I hope I’m wrong but I have t seen anything indicating mental toughness or any urgency...but I know I don’t know the kid.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#543 » by drsd » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:08 pm

Skybox wrote:...but I know I don’t know the kid.


I think most Magic fans were only 5% paying attention to Philly news. I fully agree that we "don’t know the kid". Yes we can go back and read news reports, but we really need to be "feeling" this real time to understand context.

Look: If Orlando traded Simmons for a 15 mpg back-up PG, this is still a good trade. Anything more is gravy/cherry-on-top.

My hope is that the reality is somewhere between. That means that Fultz will develop in to a mediocre starting PG at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline. That is, I expect Fultz to naturally inherit Augustin's post (in time). But not be more than that.


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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#544 » by spinedoc » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:13 pm

drsd wrote:...at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline.


Oops, too late.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#545 » by drsd » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:17 pm

spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:...at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline.


Oops, too late.


2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#546 » by spinedoc » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:33 pm

drsd wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:...at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline.


Oops, too late.


2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

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Okay, which one is the more true reflection of what type of player he is? I'm looking at the assists, that is the most important for a pg in my book. You're right, 16th in the league last year, but I seriously doubt he does that again. That's just the raw stats though, the eye test says to me he is a decent backup at best. The bar for Fultz is very low imo. It shouldn't take long for him to clear it. The only thing that would prevent that is the rigidity from the coach or management.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#547 » by NBlue » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:08 pm

drsd wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:...at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline.


Oops, too late.


2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

..


While this is totally true and Augustin deserves credit for that -- I still think a good amount of the difference there has a lot to do with coaching, system and role.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#548 » by rcklsscognition » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:35 pm

From the Magic insta:

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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#549 » by Catledge » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:28 pm

spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
Oops, too late.


2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

..


Okay, which one is the more true reflection of what type of player he is? I'm looking at the assists, that is the most important for a pg in my book. You're right, 16th in the league last year, but I seriously doubt he does that again. That's just the raw stats though, the eye test says to me he is a decent backup at best. The bar for Fultz is very low imo. It shouldn't take long for him to clear it. The only thing that would prevent that is the rigidity from the coach or management.


I think you are right that Augustin is a very limited player, mostly because of his size, but I don't think it's accurate to say that he has started to decline. At 31, he hasn't yet hit the end of his prime, even if that prime was never terribly exceptional.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#550 » by spinedoc » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:24 pm

Catledge wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:
2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

..


Okay, which one is the more true reflection of what type of player he is? I'm looking at the assists, that is the most important for a pg in my book. You're right, 16th in the league last year, but I seriously doubt he does that again. That's just the raw stats though, the eye test says to me he is a decent backup at best. The bar for Fultz is very low imo. It shouldn't take long for him to clear it. The only thing that would prevent that is the rigidity from the coach or management.


I think you are right that Augustin is a very limited player, mostly because of his size, but I don't think it's accurate to say that he has started to decline. At 31, he hasn't yet hit the end of his prime, even if that prime was never terribly exceptional.


Well, there is the rub. It makes us both correct then. Okay, I concede he may not be in decline, but his ceiling was never high to begin with. My point I suppose is that I don't believe he is a starting caliber pg. I couldn't resist pulling that sentence fragment out of drsd's post. :D
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#551 » by drsd » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:19 pm

NBlue wrote:While this is totally true and Augustin deserves credit for that -- I still think a good amount of the difference there has a lot to do with coaching, system and role.


My point was that whilst Augustin is clearly not in decline, this is a "yet". If Fultz emerges as good as a player as Augustin, then the Simmons trade was a great trade.

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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#552 » by OrlandO » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:23 pm

spinedoc wrote:
drsd wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
Oops, too late.


2018/19 Augustin was a much better baller than 2017/18 Augustin.
11.7/5.3/2.0 vs. 10.2/3.8/1.7

..


Okay, which one is the more true reflection of what type of player he is? I'm looking at the assists, that is the most important for a pg in my book. You're right, 16th in the league last year, but I seriously doubt he does that again. That's just the raw stats though, the eye test says to me he is a decent backup at best. The bar for Fultz is very low imo. It shouldn't take long for him to clear it. The only thing that would prevent that is the rigidity from the coach or management.

His stats as a starter were exactly the same both years... 11.7/5/2.5 in 36 games vs 11.7/5.3/2.5 in 81 games. I would expect him to keep it up as long as he's getting starter minutes.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#553 » by Bensational » Thu Aug 1, 2019 9:29 pm

My guess is that Fultz is ready to go, and he's eager to get the word out, but Orlando want to keep it all underwraps until training camp to save over amping the expectations amongst fans and for Fultz.

Like, say we announce he's good to go, that immediately casts conjecture on who will be the starting PG. I'd imagine WeHam would prefer that be sorted on the court. And for the next month to two months, that won't be be able to happen. So rather than feeding rumours DJ might get pushed to the bench (and Weltman was pretty defensive of DJ last offseason, so maybe they have a particularly strong affinity for him?).

Either way, I'm pretty excited to see if Fultz can bring us something.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#554 » by Skybox » Fri Aug 2, 2019 12:48 am

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:...but I know I don’t know the kid.


I think most Magic fans were only 5% paying attention to Philly news. I fully agree that we "don’t know the kid". Yes we can go back and read news reports, but we really need to be "feeling" this real time to understand context.

Look: If Orlando traded Simmons for a 15 mpg back-up PG, this is still a good trade. Anything more is gravy/cherry-on-top.

My hope is that the reality is somewhere between. That means that Fultz will develop in to a mediocre starting PG at exactly the time Augustin's abilities are likely to decline. That is, I expect Fultz to naturally inherit Augustin's post (in time). But not be more than that.


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I’m 100% supportive of the trade and I’d do it again in a heartbeat....but, there is a pretty significant cap hit ($9m?)... so it’s not like he’s completely risk-free
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#555 » by drsd » Fri Aug 2, 2019 7:07 am

Skybox wrote:I’m 100% supportive of the trade and I’d do it again in a heartbeat....but, there is a pretty significant cap hit ($9m?)... so it’s not like he’s completely risk-free


To add, Orlando has until 31 October to decide to pick up $12,288,697 on a 20/21 option year. That for me is the real "risk", as this current roster - this year - would basically look like it does even if the Simmons trade had not happened.

But let's say that Orlando picks up the option and Fultz busts, this means Orlando has this and Fournier's salary = 20M in cap space in the 2021 off-season. So even there, there is not "great" risk in Fultz' salary line.

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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#556 » by zaymon » Fri Aug 2, 2019 8:27 am

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I’m 100% supportive of the trade and I’d do it again in a heartbeat....but, there is a pretty significant cap hit ($9m?)... so it’s not like he’s completely risk-free


To add, Orlando has until 31 October to decide to pick up $12,288,697 on a 20/21 option year. That for me is the real "risk", as this current roster - this year - would basically look like it does even if the Simmons trade had not happened.

But let's say that Orlando picks up the option and Fultz busts, this means Orlando has this and Fournier's salary = 20M in cap space in the 2021 off-season. So even there, there is not "great" risk in Fultz' salary line.

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Fultz contract is well aligned with our plans. We dont need money next year. 76ers couldnt pay him while rehabing while we are the opposite. Either he is a star and we kick philadelphia ass for another decade or he is not and we have money to sign someone else. Fultz will have a much easier job with Vucevic, Dj, Fournier and Gordon which are all good- great passers. Sixers had non shooting passer and non passing shooters/ scorers during Markelle tenure
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#557 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Fri Aug 2, 2019 2:45 pm

You guys, I don't want to get y'all too excited... I have Markelle on my 2k16 roster, and he really is a MONSTER!
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#558 » by basketballRob » Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:06 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I’m 100% supportive of the trade and I’d do it again in a heartbeat....but, there is a pretty significant cap hit ($9m?)... so it’s not like he’s completely risk-free


To add, Orlando has until 31 October to decide to pick up $12,288,697 on a 20/21 option year. That for me is the real "risk", as this current roster - this year - would basically look like it does even if the Simmons trade had not happened.

But let's say that Orlando picks up the option and Fultz busts, this means Orlando has this and Fournier's salary = 20M in cap space in the 2021 off-season. So even there, there is not "great" risk in Fultz' salary line.

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Not sure if we don't sign him that it will enable us to sign someone else. If Fournier opts out he'll most likely just resign for more years.
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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#559 » by drsd » Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:44 pm

basketballRob wrote:Not sure if we don't sign him that it will enable us to sign someone else. If Fournier opts out he'll most likely just resign for more years.


Fournier's position is the mostly likely to be targeted for a FA upgrade, so I do not agree.


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Re: Markelle Fultz rehab and progress 

Post#560 » by Bakomagic » Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:55 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:You guys, I don't want to get y'all too excited... I have Markelle on my 2k16 roster, and he really is a MONSTER!



There it is ! Pencil us in for home court in the first round. The haterz are going to have a hard time arguing this.

Thanks for the inside info sChOlaRlY !

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