Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

[basketballRob]

I might be wrong, but im pretty sure he was referring to the rookies being seemingly unable to step a foot wrong, as opposed to physically protecting them from playtime/injury.

My point addresses that.

Most of the Magic rookies were limited because of injury, not because they were "unable to step a foot wrong."

I also pointed out that the rookies that were healthy (Oladipo and Payton) were definitely given free reign...Oladipo had the ball in his hands and freedom from day one...EP didn't even have a single NBA level back up PG to challenge him for his first 2 years.

Really the only rookie that any argument can be made about is Mario, and he was just absolutely awful defender and turnover machine as a rookie. But even still, like I said earlier, even he was gifted 18mpg / 79 games as a rookie.

From pov of fanbase , not from POV of team or front office.
Took fanbase 3 years for Hezonja and 4 years for Payton to finally wave white flag , admitting they are nowhere near what was expected .
But during that 3 ( and 4) years, fanbase worshiped them, making up excuses at every step why they don't thrive and listing up best case scnarios based on success of other players in similar situation.

As from front office POV, let's be honest.
Apart from Oladipo each and every single one of them sucked during rookie year.
Gordon (5,2ppg) , terrible performance + injury
Hezonja ( 6,1ppg), terrible performance
Isaac (5,4 ppg) , terrible + injury
Payton (8,9 ppg) terrible performance
Mo Bamba (6,2ppg) injury + terrible

Oladipo was a junior when he was drafted. 1 year older than Bamba, 1.5 more than JI, and 2.5 more than AG.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[ezzzp]

From pov of fanbase , not from POV of team or front office.
Took fanbase 3 years for Hezonja and 4 years for Payton to finally wave white flag , admitting they are nowhere near what was expected .
But during that 3 ( and 4) years, fanbase worshiped them, making up excuses at every step why they don't thrive and listing up best case scnarios based on success of other players in similar situation.

As from front office POV, let's be honest.
Apart from Oladipo each and every single one of them sucked during rookie year.
Gordon (5,2ppg) , terrible performance + injury
Hezonja ( 6,1ppg), terrible performance
Isaac (5,4 ppg) , terrible + injury
Payton (8,9 ppg) terrible performance
Mo Bamba (6,2ppg) injury + terrible

Bamba and Hezonja were really bad their rookie years, but...

...Elfrid Payton wasn't terrible as a rookie. He was First Team All-Rookie, which isn't a huge deal but its not an award given to players that are terrible their rookie years. What got him that was that he was a really good defender that first season (+0.87 DRPM). Plus he also showed really good floor management and passing IQ for a rookie point guard.

He just never played good defense again. You can't suck at defense AND not be able to shoot. Not giving him in-roster competition which gifted the starting PG role to him was a huge mistake by Rob Hennigan. That's the one position in the NBA were its vital to have a mentor PG to challenge and keep learning/development in focus.

...Aaron Gordon wasn't terrible, he was very good defender but just could not stay healthy. He suffered the Jones Fracture, then soreness and issues with same foot kept his minutes crazily inconsistent. In Summer League AG showed he had taken a nice developmental step with his offense. Then a few days later he broke his face and had to shut it down the entire summer, training camp and preseason. By the trade deadline of his second year, AG had already pushed Harris to the bench because of his stellar defense and evolving offense. Clearing a path for him was a major part of why Harris was traded.

A vast majority of the Magic fan base wanted the FO to draft Dante Exum instead of Aaron Gordon...a PG who still can't shoot or stay healthy.

...Jonathan Isaac was definitely not terrible as a rookie. His defense was amazing right from day one. Injuries just destroyed his rookie season.

A key reason the Magic made it to the playoffs last season was their #2 defense after January / #8 defense for the year. That does not happen without Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac. Vucevic and Ross might have carried the offense, but JI and AG carried the defense. PPG isn't everything.

[pepe1991]

From pov of fanbase , not from POV of team or front office.
Took fanbase 3 years for Hezonja and 4 years for Payton to finally wave white flag , admitting they are nowhere near what was expected .
But during that 3 ( and 4) years, fanbase worshiped them, making up excuses at every step why they don't thrive and listing up best case scnarios based on success of other players in similar situation.

As from front office POV, let's be honest.
Apart from Oladipo each and every single one of them sucked during rookie year.
Gordon (5,2ppg) , terrible performance + injury
Hezonja ( 6,1ppg), terrible performance
Isaac (5,4 ppg) , terrible + injury
Payton (8,9 ppg) terrible performance
Mo Bamba (6,2ppg) injury + terrible

Bamba and Hezonja were really bad their rookie years, but...

...Elfrid Payton wasn't terrible as a rookie. He was First Team All-Rookie, which isn't a huge deal but its not an award given to players that are terrible their rookie years. What got him that was that he was a really good defender that first season (+0.87 DRPM). Plus he also showed really good floor management and passing IQ for a rookie point guard.

He just never played good defense again. You can't suck at defense AND not be able to shoot. Not giving him in-roster competition which gifted the starting PG role to him was a huge mistake by Rob Hennigan. That's the one position in the NBA were its vital to have a mentor PG to challenge and keep learning/development in focus.

...Aaron Gordon wasn't terrible, he was very good defender but just could not stay healthy. He suffered the Jones Fracture, then soreness and issues with same foot kept his minutes crazily inconsistent. In Summer League AG showed he had taken a nice developmental step with his offense. Then a few days later he broke his face and had to shut it down the entire summer, training camp and preseason. By the trade deadline of his second year, AG had already pushed Harris to the bench because of his stellar defense and evolving offense. Clearing a path for him was a major part of why Harris was traded.

A vast majority of the Magic fan base wanted the FO to draft Dante Exum instead of Aaron Gordon...a PG who still can't shoot or stay healthy.

...Jonathan Isaac was definitely not terrible as a rookie. His defense was amazing right from day one. Injuries just destroyed his rookie season.

A key reason the Magic made it to the playoffs last season was their #2 defense after January / #8 defense for the year. That does not happen without Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac. Vucevic and Ross might have carried the offense, but JI and AG carried the defense. PPG isn't everything.

That year EPSPN registered 366 players to count on their hollinger's stats, by TS% Payton was 345th.
I agree about having no competition for a spot.

. By the trade deadline of his second year, AG had already pushed Harris to the bench because of his stellar defense and evolving offense. Clearing a path for him was a major part of why Harris was traded.

This is another example of poor judgment of a talent. 5 years later Harris is still superior player and type of guy you can play on every roster, from bottom feeder to contender and squeeze solid performance for him.


JI in rookie year had -4,9 DBPM , by TS, among 80 players that ESPN ranked at PF ,he was 3rd worst.
Conclusion: he was terrible rookie and apsolute disaster on offense.
He also had -8,6 net rating.

It's funny how much you cherrypick stats when you want to make a point, where you will use same stats that you now ignore when you talk about players you don't like.

[basketballRob]

From pov of fanbase , not from POV of team or front office.
Took fanbase 3 years for Hezonja and 4 years for Payton to finally wave white flag , admitting they are nowhere near what was expected .
But during that 3 ( and 4) years, fanbase worshiped them, making up excuses at every step why they don't thrive and listing up best case scnarios based on success of other players in similar situation.

As from front office POV, let's be honest.
Apart from Oladipo each and every single one of them sucked during rookie year.
Gordon (5,2ppg) , terrible performance + injury
Hezonja ( 6,1ppg), terrible performance
Isaac (5,4 ppg) , terrible + injury
Payton (8,9 ppg) terrible performance
Mo Bamba (6,2ppg) injury + terrible

Bamba and Hezonja were really bad their rookie years, but...

...Elfrid Payton wasn't terrible as a rookie. He was First Team All-Rookie, which isn't a huge deal but its not an award given to players that are terrible their rookie years. What got him that was that he was a really good defender that first season (+0.87 DRPM). Plus he also showed really good floor management and passing IQ for a rookie point guard.

He just never played good defense again. You can't suck at defense AND not be able to shoot. Not giving him in-roster competition which gifted the starting PG role to him was a huge mistake by Rob Hennigan. That's the one position in the NBA were its vital to have a mentor PG to challenge and keep learning/development in focus.

...Aaron Gordon wasn't terrible, he was very good defender but just could not stay healthy. He suffered the Jones Fracture, then soreness and issues with same foot kept his minutes crazily inconsistent. In Summer League AG showed he had taken a nice developmental step with his offense. Then a few days later he broke his face and had to shut it down the entire summer, training camp and preseason. By the trade deadline of his second year, AG had already pushed Harris to the bench because of his stellar defense and evolving offense. Clearing a path for him was a major part of why Harris was traded.

A vast majority of the Magic fan base wanted the FO to draft Dante Exum instead of Aaron Gordon...a PG who still can't shoot or stay healthy.

...Jonathan Isaac was definitely not terrible as a rookie. His defense was amazing right from day one. Injuries just destroyed his rookie season.

A key reason the Magic made it to the playoffs last season was their #2 defense after January / #8 defense for the year. That does not happen without Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac. Vucevic and Ross might have carried the offense, but JI and AG carried the defense. PPG isn't everything.

You must of missed all the JI is terrible comments at this time last year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[ezzzp]

JI in rookie year had -4,9 DBPM , by TS, among 80 players that ESPN ranked at PF ,he was 3rd worst.
Conclusion: he was terrible rookie and apsolute disaster on offense.
He also had -8,6 net rating.

It's funny how much you cherrypick stats when you want to make a point, where you will use same stats that you now ignore when you talk about players you don't like.

Isaac had a +3.1 DBPM (here is the LINK)

More evidence:

...JI had a +1.78 DRPM, that was better than Giannis' DRPM (+1.60) and was ranked 11th amongst PF's.

...the Magic had a 101.8 DRTG with him on the floor, and the defense free fell to 110.2 DRTG when he was off.

JI was a killer defender his rookie season...you don't know what you are talking about.

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[MagicFrenchie]

Read on Twitter

wasn't he supposed to not play at all this year?

[tiderulz]

Read on Twitter

wasn't he supposed to not play at all this year?

just not for us.

[SD2042]

Read on Twitter

wasn't he supposed to not play at all this year?

That's what I'm wandering as well.

If that's the case, I hope that he's 100% healthy.

As for G-League, it's best that he works his way up to bball shape down there. See what his capabilities are on both ends and hope that Okeke is worth the pick the Magic invested in from the draft.

[MoMM]

Drafting a guy in the 1st round and letting him play in the G-League without a NBA contract? Man, Okeke seems to be a project like Caboclo.

[Knightro]

Drafting a guy in the 1st round and letting him play in the G-League without a NBA contract? Man, Okeke seems to be a project like Caboclo.

That's definitely not why the Magic did that.

[cedric76]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

[MagicFan101]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

[tiderulz]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

what specifically makes you say that?

[MagicFan101]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

what specifically makes you say that?

I don’t mean that as a personality or locker room issue. More about his style of play and embracing a team game not built around him and Vuc.

We are clearly investing more in Fultz lately. Surely the absence of DJ and MCW has a lot to do with that but still. The one person who doesn’t seem to be getting with the program is Evan. Others are starting to get comfortable with Fultz.

Evan is a good player. He will do well on the right team. I just think a parting of ways could be best for both sides.

[cedric76]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

I think so too


Fultz
?
Chuma
Ji
Vuc/mo

Chuma /Ji combo will be awesome and complement fultz s game perfectly

Vuc has a luxury 3rd option

[zaymon]

Projected role: Three-and-D starting role player

As long as Okeke's recovery goes smoothly, he should eventually fill a three-and-D role at the worst. His jump shot and defensive versatility are easy to buy and theoretically create a high floor. His ceiling could mean Okeke develops into Robert Covington 2.0—an elite role player who doesn't have to create to hold significant value.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841105-chuma-okekes-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-magic-pick

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

I think so too


Fultz
?
Chuma
Ji
Vuc/mo

Chuma /Ji combo will be awesome and complement fultz s game perfectly

Vuc has a luxury 3rd option

Everything i read and hear is that Fournier has no problem limiting his role if needed. Right now we dont have any other option. Evan many times told he is impressed by Fultz abilities. Anyone heard Vuc or Fournier complaing about Fultz taking more shots?

[tiderulz]

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

what specifically makes you say that?

I don’t mean that as a personality or locker room issue. More about his style of play and embracing a team game not built around him and Vuc.

We are clearly investing more in Fultz lately. Surely the absence of DJ and MCW has a lot to do with that but still. The one person who doesn’t seem to be getting with the program is Evan. Others are starting to get comfortable with Fultz.

Evan is a good player. He will do well on the right team. I just think a parting of ways could be best for both sides.

so, its just a thought with no real proof or backing. did anyone ever think that his style of play is based on doing want the coach wants, because we have very few good offensive players?

You say he is not "getting with the program" but offer no substance, proof, anything other than just saying that

[tiderulz]

With Fultz’s vision this is exactly what I want out of one of the SG or SF role. I want one to be an elite 3&D role player and the other to be a creator.

Evan could fill that role but it just doesn’t feel like he wants to be part of the team we are growing into.

I think so too


Fultz
?
Chuma
Ji
Vuc/mo

Chuma /Ji combo will be awesome and complement fultz s game perfectly

Vuc has a luxury 3rd option

Everything i read and hear is that Fournier has no problem limiting his role if needed. Right now we dont have any other option. Evan many times told he is impressed by Fultz abilities. Anyone heard Vuc or Fournier complaing about Fultz taking more shots?

its just typical stuff here. A player doesnt turn into a star player, so people want to #@$^ on him. Happened with Harris, Dipo, Vuc, AG and Fultz/Isaac at some point.

[MagicFan101]

what specifically makes you say that?

I don’t mean that as a personality or locker room issue. More about his style of play and embracing a team game not built around him and Vuc.

We are clearly investing more in Fultz lately. Surely the absence of DJ and MCW has a lot to do with that but still. The one person who doesn’t seem to be getting with the program is Evan. Others are starting to get comfortable with Fultz.

Evan is a good player. He will do well on the right team. I just think a parting of ways could be best for both sides.

so, its just a thought with no real proof or backing. did anyone ever think that his style of play is based on doing want the coach wants, because we have very few good offensive players?

You say he is not "getting with the program" but offer no substance, proof, anything other than just saying that

Given that I started that part with “I just think ...” I’m not sure how you could take it as anything other that a random thought.

As I said. Evan is a good player and his skill set could fill the role in describing well. But does he want to embrace the youth movement?

If all of this is based on what the coach draws up then that is a bigger problem for Evan than I thought. If he can’t call an audible and change the play when he has a wide open Isaac or Fultz rather than force it to Vuc away from the basket ... then his b-ball IQ is quite low.

So is it that he is programmed to run a play and can’t do anything else? Or does he simply not want to look for anything other than himself or Vuc? Neither is good for Orlando.

Can he change? Maybe. But are we willing to give him the contract he will ask for and hope that happens down the road?