Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

[tiderulz]

so even though he could be back, he is being forced to sit out a year, not getting much money this year and delaying his next contract by a year. like i said from the beginning, this seems like a raw deal for Okeke.

You have this all wrong.

Chuma Okeke is not being *forced* to do anything. In order for the Magic retain his rights, they had to legally tender him a contract offer and Okeke if he feels like it can accept that contract tender at any time. There's nothing legally stopping him from accepting the tendered contract from the Magic and forcing his way onto the 2019-2020 roster.

Okeke and his agent are *choosing* not to accept the contract the Magic have tendered him and essentially delay his contract for one year. Why would they agree to that if they didn't have to? There are a couple of explanations.

1. The most likely reason IMO is that Okeke and his agent are returning the favor to the Magic for drafting him at 16 and saving him from a possible (likely?) drop into the 2nd round. There are a few outliers here and there, but as I've laid out a couple of times in this thread the gap in guaranteed money between a 16th overall pick (with almost all top 16 picks getting both option years picked up) and a pick between 31-40 is typically 10M dollars or more.

2. This one is less of a factor because he's delaying RFA by a year, but Okeke is also going to earn 1.1M more over the life of his 4-year rookie contract by signing it in 2020 instead of 2019.

did they offer him the normal rookie contract? or the absolute minimum contract they had to offer?
And you cant say they should feel saved for not dropping into the 2nd round, when the Magic Front office came right out and said that if they didnt take him at 16, they KNEW he would be taken in the next few picks.

As for earning $1.1 mil more over 4 years, thats easily picked back up by the next contract.

[Knightro]

did they offer him the normal rookie contract? or the absolute minimum contract they had to offer?
And you cant say they should feel saved for not dropping into the 2nd round, when the Magic Front office came right out and said that if they didnt take him at 16, they KNEW he would be taken in the next few picks.

As for earning $1.1 mil more over 4 years, thats easily picked back up by the next contract.

1. I personally do not know if the required tender is 80%, 100% or 120% of the rookie scale. I know that his cap hold as an unsigned first round pick was 120% of the scale. I'd ask ezzzp and drsd if they know exactly how much a tendered contract has to be. But either way, I can't possibly imagine the Magic would have gone against all NBA industry standards and offered Okeke and take it or leave it 80% scale for 19-20 for the sole purpose of strong arming him into delaying his contract until 20-21. That seems like a really quick and easy way to get agents to not only despise you, but not want to send their clients to work with you either

2. I know what Weltman said, but I would simply counter that with don't believe everything you hear from an NBA front office executive. Weltman could have very well been lying to the media in an effort to take some of the sting out of picking a rookie that he very likely knew that night wasn't going to play a single minute as a rookie.

[ezzzp]

So PF has 1,1% better TS% than SG and that's somehow key factor here ?

So a versatile forward's shot selection was the same as the guards, its right there laid out for you to see

I hope you know that TS% in nba for SGs is around 54% and for PFs is almost 57% , and i'm pretty sure similar co-relation in TS is in nba, so actually , in that perception NAW actually is above average in efficiency ( if you compare his TS to NBA's SGs TS% ) and Okeke is just bit above average.

I hope you know that TS% varies depending on individual player's type and where their shot selection comes from. Generalizing positions is an antiquated notion.

This is prime example why most posters have problem with you, you argue something that i didn't say and call it ridiculous, i put bold part on my part of a text to see how you take things out of context to make narrative, despite other poster ( in this case me) never saying it.

Like I give a s**t...and I am arguing what you said...here are your words: "i think only reason they drafted Okeke is because they knew they won't need to pay him right away."

[rusoopE]

In chuma I trust

Sent from my 5033A using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

In chuma I trust

A never played not-yet-rookie >???

For me this season rests of Fournier's ability to fully transition to the SG slot AND the Magic creating a competent PG core.

Guard play is key; Okeke, well, I am happy he is getting millions to not play basketball.

( I would happily accept getting hundreds of thousands to not play basketball ; I would even consider tens of dollars ).

..

[tiderulz]

In chuma I trust

A never played not-yet-rookie >???

For me this season rests of Fournier's ability to fully transition to the SG slot AND the Magic creating a competent PG core.

Guard play is key; Okeke, well, I am happy he is getting millions to not play basketball.

( I would happily accept getting hundreds of thousands to not play basketball ; I would even consider tens of dollars ).

..

except as you said, he has to be happy getting about $200k or so this year.

[cedric76]

Hi everyone

Got some insider info, i met someone very close to dave spahn (chuma s agent) yesterday. We were talking about basketball and he gave me info about chuma.

The guy was legit, he showed me his business card.

During predraft, chuma s camp were told that their client would go late 1st or early 2nd

Orlando were not interested in a rookie for 2019 as they considered Mo as their 2019 rookie
Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

Jeff was doing his due diligence and contacted chuma s agent and asked them if their client would consider red shirt if they d draft him at 16

Agent did the math

As a late 1st he d get 10M over 4 years
As an early 2nd, nothing is guaranteed

With a 16th pick they d be guaranteed 16M+ over 4 yrs

Agent couldn't risk to lose that much money if chuma dropped in the draft and end up a 2nd draft pick.

Agent said that they would agree to that.

Orlando never told them that they d draft him for sure so agent was pleasantly surprised when we drafted chuma

This answers all our questions :

Why chuma not taking salary this year?
Because his camp was very worried he d drop in the 2nd round

Why reaching for chuma?
We couldn't afford a rookie salary and wanted to go for draft and stash

Why not trade down to draft chuma?
Scared that someone would pick him late 1st


All in all, orlando liked chuma and didn't want a rookie this year.

Well played weham even if i think that we could have trade down and get him. I do not believe that someone behind us wanted him as bad as us.
It s great to see our management thinking out of the box

[J_Magic]

I cant believe the Magic are playing this stupid game. It will back fire on us once Chuma realizes he missed out on one year of earnings.

Don't expect loyalty from Chuma if he turns out to be a stud. FFS, we paid stupid money for Jerian Grant.

We have just outsmarted ourselves. If Chuma was worried about securing his future now by getting more guaranteed money, then I worry about his mentality to back himself. Does he want to be a rotational player or a star in this league one day.

[tiderulz]

Hi everyone

Got some insider info, i met someone very close to dave spahn (chuma s agent) yesterday. We were talking about basketball and he gave me info about chuma.

The guy was legit, he showed me his business card.

During predraft, chuma s camp were told that their client would go late 1st or early 2nd

Orlando were not interested in a rookie for 2019 as they considered Mo as their 2019 rookie
Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

Jeff was doing his due diligence and contacted chuma s agent and asked them if their client would consider red shirt if they d draft him at 16

Agent did the math

As a late 1st he d get 10M over 4 years
As an early 2nd, nothing is guaranteed

With a 16th pick they d be guaranteed 16M+ over 4 yrs

Agent couldn't risk to lose that much money if chuma dropped in the draft and end up a 2nd draft pick.

Agent said that they would agree to that.

Orlando never told them that they d draft him for sure so agent was pleasantly surprised when we drafted chuma

This answers all our questions :

Why chuma not taking salary this year?
Because his camp was very worried he d drop in the 2nd round

Why reaching for chuma?
We couldn't afford a rookie salary and wanted to go for draft and stash

Why not trade down to draft chuma?
Scared that someone would pick him late 1st


All in all, orlando liked chuma and didn't want a rookie this year.

Well played weham even if i think that we could have trade down and get him. I do not believe that someone behind us wanted him as bad as us.
It s great to see our management thinking out of the box

couple of things. Only 2 years of a rookie deal are guaranteed, so that total wasnt really "guaranteed". Also, everyone knew Chuma would go late 1st, early 2nd, He was projected as a lottery pick before his injury. Think a lot is just revisionist history by the front office. If they arent picking very high, they act like late picks dont matter. Like a couple of years ago when they traded 25th and later 2nds because the "draft flattened out" after pick 21. i think you are crediting our FO too much

[MagicMatic]

Hi everyone

Got some insider info, i met someone very close to dave spahn (chuma s agent) yesterday. We were talking about basketball and he gave me info about chuma.

The guy was legit, he showed me his business card.

During predraft, chuma s camp were told that their client would go late 1st or early 2nd

Orlando were not interested in a rookie for 2019 as they considered Mo as their 2019 rookie
Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

Jeff was doing his due diligence and contacted chuma s agent and asked them if their client would consider red shirt if they d draft him at 16

Agent did the math

As a late 1st he d get 10M over 4 years
As an early 2nd, nothing is guaranteed

With a 16th pick they d be guaranteed 16M+ over 4 yrs

Agent couldn't risk to lose that much money if chuma dropped in the draft and end up a 2nd draft pick.

Agent said that they would agree to that.

Orlando never told them that they d draft him for sure so agent was pleasantly surprised when we drafted chuma

This answers all our questions :

Why chuma not taking salary this year?
Because his camp was very worried he d drop in the 2nd round

Why reaching for chuma?
We couldn't afford a rookie salary and wanted to go for draft and stash

Why not trade down to draft chuma?
Scared that someone would pick him late 1st


All in all, orlando liked chuma and didn't want a rookie this year.

Well played weham even if i think that we could have trade down and get him. I do not believe that someone behind us wanted him as bad as us.
It s great to see our management thinking out of the box

couple of things. Only 2 years of a rookie deal are guaranteed, so that total wasnt really "guaranteed". Also, everyone knew Chuma would go late 1st, early 2nd, He was projected as a lottery pick before his injury. Think a lot is just revisionist history by the front office. If they arent picking very high, they act like late picks dont matter. Like a couple of years ago when they traded 25th and later 2nds because the "draft flattened out" after pick 21. i think you are crediting our FO too much

Exactly.

This team was a first round exit picking at #16 and not a championship dynasty Spurs team that uses extremely late first rounders as stash options. There were/still are big questions about this roster pre draft. Not only that, but the #6 pick from last season is “getting paid” as a bench warmer behind the second highest paid Center in the league (next year). With that being said, let’s hold off on awarding them accolades for 4-D chess.

Also, if this is even true, I would find it concerning that they would choose to select a guy merely because they couldn’t avoid the luxury tax by making other decisions. This also goes back to the original point that handing Aminu 3/30m$ doesn’t necessarily scream “value” for a positional backup that didn’t see much playing time in last years rotation.

[ezzzp]

Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

The problem with this theory is that the Magic wouldn't be over the Luxury Tax if they signed Okeke - even at full 120% rookie scale:

[ezzzp]

couple of things. Only 2 years of a rookie deal are guaranteed, so that total wasnt really "guaranteed". Also, everyone knew Chuma would go late 1st, early 2nd, He was projected as a lottery pick before his injury. Think a lot is just revisionist history by the front office. If they arent picking very high, they act like late picks dont matter. Like a couple of years ago when they traded 25th and later 2nds because the "draft flattened out" after pick 21. i think you are crediting our FO too much

Did the FO say he would be a lottery pick? I don't think they've ever said that.

What I've seen them say was that a GM from another 1st round team told Weltman that they were going to pick Okeke if Magic hadn't taken him. He has also said that there were teams that would have taken him later in the 1st round.

Considering there were: 14 teams drafting after the Magic, and that analytics based draft projection models like Kevin Pelton's had him ranked as the 8th best player in the draft...its not really a stretch.

The people who said he would have been a lottery pick were Mike Schmidtz (of ESPN) who, on-air during the live draft show, stated that the Magic got the steal of the draft and that Okeke would have been a lottery pick had he not gotten injured. Jonathan Givony (DraftExpress) also tweeted that Okeke would have been a top 10 pick if he hadn't been injured.

From what I've seen, the FO treats draft picks like assets...and they really value team-first type personality (cough cough not Kyle Kuzma). They also understand that too much youth on a roster is detrimental to development of everyone, and have stated that numerous times.

That "flattened" draft #25 pick, was actually traded for OKC's 2020 top 20 protected 1st + a 2020 2nd round draft pick. The FO turned both those picks + Jonathan Simmons into Markelle Fultz.

At the time of the "flattened" draft, the FO said they preferred to stash that pick as an asset for the right opportunity. Without that 1st round asset, the 76ers are very unlikely to have made the Fultz trade with the Magic. The Magic FO turned that asset into an asset with franchise player potential.

[tiderulz]

couple of things. Only 2 years of a rookie deal are guaranteed, so that total wasnt really "guaranteed". Also, everyone knew Chuma would go late 1st, early 2nd, He was projected as a lottery pick before his injury. Think a lot is just revisionist history by the front office. If they arent picking very high, they act like late picks dont matter. Like a couple of years ago when they traded 25th and later 2nds because the "draft flattened out" after pick 21. i think you are crediting our FO too much

Did the FO say he would be a lottery pick? I don't think they've ever said that.

What I've seen them say was that a GM from another 1st round team told Weltman that they were going to pick Okeke if Magic hadn't taken him. He has also said that there were teams that would have taken him later in the 1st round.

Considering there were: 14 teams drafting after the Magic, and that analytics based draft projection models like Kevin Pelton's had him ranked as the 8th best player in the draft...its not really a stretch.

The people who said he would have been a lottery pick were Mike Schmidtz (of ESPN) who, on-air during the live draft show, stated that the Magic got the steal of the draft and that Okeke would have been a lottery pick had he not gotten injured. Jonathan Givony (DraftExpress) also tweeted that Okeke would have been a top 10 pick if he hadn't been injured.

From what I've seen, the FO treats draft picks like assets...and they really value team-first type personality (cough cough not Kyle Kuzma). They also understand that too much youth on a roster is detrimental to development of everyone, and have stated that numerous times.

That "flattened" draft #25 pick, was actually traded for OKC's 2020 top 20 protected 1st + a 2020 2nd round draft pick. The FO turned both those picks + Jonathan Simmons into Markelle Fultz.

At the time of the "flattened" draft, the FO said they preferred to stash that pick as an asset for the right opportunity. Without that 1st round asset, the 76ers are very unlikely to have made the Fultz trade with the Magic. The Magic FO turned that asset into an asset with franchise player potential.

i didnt say the front office said it. But if you look at mock drafts before his injury, he was projected as a late lottery pick.

we each are allowed our own opinion of the front office. Im not impressed so far.

[Catledge]

i didnt say the front office said it. But if you look at mock drafts before his injury, he was projected as a late lottery pick.

we each are allowed our own opinion of the front office. Im not impressed so far.

This year will have a pretty big impact on how I regard this front office. If the team improves on last year because more than one of AG, Isaac, Fultz, and Bamba makes a significant improvement, then I'll think that the FO deserves credit for building a winning team with an improving young core.

If our young guys pretty much all fall flat and we look peaked as a .500 team, then I think it's fair to regard this regime as a failure.

[Knightro]

Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

The problem with this theory is that the Magic wouldn't be over the Luxury Tax if they signed Okeke - even at full 120% rookie scale:

True. But the Magic would also only have 14 players under contract with one of them essentially not able to play because of injury, so really 13 players available.

Adding a 15th player (and again really a 14th player because Okeke's wouldn't have been playing for a while, if at all) would have put them over the tax.

Also Fournier is makes 150K than you have listed because he hit a bonus last year.

Being slightly over the tax isn't the worst thing in the world considering it's not any of our money, but it would give the Magic a smaller MLE to use next summer.

[Ducklett]

couple of things. Only 2 years of a rookie deal are guaranteed, so that total wasnt really "guaranteed". Also, everyone knew Chuma would go late 1st, early 2nd, He was projected as a lottery pick before his injury. Think a lot is just revisionist history by the front office. If they arent picking very high, they act like late picks dont matter. Like a couple of years ago when they traded 25th and later 2nds because the "draft flattened out" after pick 21. i think you are crediting our FO too much

Did the FO say he would be a lottery pick? I don't think they've ever said that.

What I've seen them say was that a GM from another 1st round team told Weltman that they were going to pick Okeke if Magic hadn't taken him. He has also said that there were teams that would have taken him later in the 1st round.

Considering there were: 14 teams drafting after the Magic, and that analytics based draft projection models like Kevin Pelton's had him ranked as the 8th best player in the draft...its not really a stretch.

The people who said he would have been a lottery pick were Mike Schmidtz (of ESPN) who, on-air during the live draft show, stated that the Magic got the steal of the draft and that Okeke would have been a lottery pick had he not gotten injured. Jonathan Givony (DraftExpress) also tweeted that Okeke would have been a top 10 pick if he hadn't been injured.

From what I've seen, the FO treats draft picks like assets...and they really value team-first type personality (cough cough not Kyle Kuzma). They also understand that too much youth on a roster is detrimental to development of everyone, and have stated that numerous times.

That "flattened" draft #25 pick, was actually traded for OKC's 2020 top 20 protected 1st + a 2020 2nd round draft pick. The FO turned both those picks + Jonathan Simmons into Markelle Fultz.

At the time of the "flattened" draft, the FO said they preferred to stash that pick as an asset for the right opportunity. Without that 1st round asset, the 76ers are very unlikely to have made the Fultz trade with the Magic. The Magic FO turned that asset into an asset with franchise player potential.

i didnt say the front office said it. But if you look at mock drafts before his injury, he was projected as a late lottery pick.

we each are allowed our own opinion of the front office. Im not impressed so far.

I guess my question is "How many years are people going to find the kick the can down the road plan for our draft picks acceptable?" These young guys are going to have to pay big dividends eventually, right?

Then again, what exactly do you guys expect from a 16th pick?

[MagicMatic]

Did the FO say he would be a lottery pick? I don't think they've ever said that.

What I've seen them say was that a GM from another 1st round team told Weltman that they were going to pick Okeke if Magic hadn't taken him. He has also said that there were teams that would have taken him later in the 1st round.

Considering there were: 14 teams drafting after the Magic, and that analytics based draft projection models like Kevin Pelton's had him ranked as the 8th best player in the draft...its not really a stretch.

The people who said he would have been a lottery pick were Mike Schmidtz (of ESPN) who, on-air during the live draft show, stated that the Magic got the steal of the draft and that Okeke would have been a lottery pick had he not gotten injured. Jonathan Givony (DraftExpress) also tweeted that Okeke would have been a top 10 pick if he hadn't been injured.

From what I've seen, the FO treats draft picks like assets...and they really value team-first type personality (cough cough not Kyle Kuzma). They also understand that too much youth on a roster is detrimental to development of everyone, and have stated that numerous times.

That "flattened" draft #25 pick, was actually traded for OKC's 2020 top 20 protected 1st + a 2020 2nd round draft pick. The FO turned both those picks + Jonathan Simmons into Markelle Fultz.

At the time of the "flattened" draft, the FO said they preferred to stash that pick as an asset for the right opportunity. Without that 1st round asset, the 76ers are very unlikely to have made the Fultz trade with the Magic. The Magic FO turned that asset into an asset with franchise player potential.

i didnt say the front office said it. But if you look at mock drafts before his injury, he was projected as a late lottery pick.

we each are allowed our own opinion of the front office. Im not impressed so far.

I guess my question is "How many years are people going to find the kick the can down the road plan for our draft picks acceptable?" These young guys are going to have to pay big dividends eventually, right?

Then again, what exactly do you guys expect from a 16th pick?

It’s what has become expected of the young guys in Orlando. People will keep giving excuses to them until they run out. Bamba and Chuma are already geared for 4-6 years of excuses given the fact they won’t get significant playing time, barring big changes to the roster. That doesn’t even take into account injury history.

[Ducklett]

i didnt say the front office said it. But if you look at mock drafts before his injury, he was projected as a late lottery pick.

we each are allowed our own opinion of the front office. Im not impressed so far.

I guess my question is "How many years are people going to find the kick the can down the road plan for our draft picks acceptable?" These young guys are going to have to pay big dividends eventually, right?

Then again, what exactly do you guys expect from a 16th pick?

It’s what has become expected of the young guys in Orlando. People will keep giving them excuses to them until they run out. Bamba and Chuma are already geared for 4-6 years of excuses given the fact they won’t get significant playing time, barring big changes to the roster. That doesn’t even take into account injury history.

I think we have seen that late bloomers are a thing nowadays. A lot of these guys don't start playing basketball until a year or two into high school. I am not saying that they need 6 years of excuses, but it seems to be a thing that these guys are coming on at 23-24 years old.

[tiderulz]

I guess my question is "How many years are people going to find the kick the can down the road plan for our draft picks acceptable?" These young guys are going to have to pay big dividends eventually, right?

Then again, what exactly do you guys expect from a 16th pick?

It’s what has become expected of the young guys in Orlando. People will keep giving them excuses to them until they run out. Bamba and Chuma are already geared for 4-6 years of excuses given the fact they won’t get significant playing time, barring big changes to the roster. That doesn’t even take into account injury history.

I think we have seen that late bloomers are a thing nowadays. A lot of these guys don't start playing basketball until a year or two into high school. I am not saying that they need 6 years of excuses, but it seems to be a thing that these guys are coming on at 23-24 years old.

i wouldnt say a lot, i would say its very rare.

[ezzzp]

Orlando wanted a draft and stach (as they ownership were not willing to go above luxury) and were considering trade down

The problem with this theory is that the Magic wouldn't be over the Luxury Tax if they signed Okeke - even at full 120% rookie scale:

Spoiler:

True. But the Magic would also only have 14 players under contract with one of them essentially not able to play because of injury, so really 13 players available.

Adding a 15th player (and again really a 14th player because Okeke's wouldn't have been playing for a while, if at all) would have put them over the tax.

Also Fournier is makes 150K than you have listed because he hit a bonus last year.

Being slightly over the tax isn't the worst thing in the world considering it's not any of our money, but it would give the Magic a smaller MLE to use next summer.

Signing the 15th guy takes the Magic over the tax by a measly 75K...even if you add in a 150k bonus for Fournier, its still a meaningless amount in their context. Plus in that case, Okeke would have likely played this season as his injury normal recovery projects him to be ready somewhere between December and February.

Going over doesn't give the Magic a smaller MLE next year. The Magic won't be anywhere near the luxury tax next season. They'll be at least $17m below it and that's with Augustine's $13m cap hold. They would still get the full MLE.