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Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#981 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 4:19 pm

well it is what it is. We will see how this all pans out in the end. Hopefully, we made the correct choice, only time will tell.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#982 » by ezzzp » Mon Sep 2, 2019 7:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:NAW had 139 assists to 97 turnovers in second year at college
Okeke had 73 assists to 66 turnovers

So Okeke was actually worst in that deparment

Okeke 59,7% TS to 58,6% NAW, given one is guard and other is wing ,and usage ,it's almost identical, especially knowing NAW averaged 4 points per game more.

Their overall 3 point shooting at college was also similar
Okeke was 88/229 ---38,9%
NAW 116/303 ---38,3%

That's virtually identical percentage, differential is below 0,1%.

Other than that Okeke seems to be Covington type of player , if he pans out.

Okeke's ball skills and shot creativity are limited. He attempted just 3.3 free throws per 40 minutes, a reflection on his predictability with the ball. Okeke could also improve his finishing in crowds, having shot just 18-of-45 on rolls to the basket while making one runner all season. And after he went 4-of-24 on pull-up jumpers, the scouting report will alert defense to close out hard and run him off the three-point line.

On top of all that, he won't play this season :roll:



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In modern basketball, position doesn't stipulate shot distribution to qualify TS%. Okeke is a versatile forward who plays both on the perimeter and inside. If you look at Okeke vs NAW's shot distribution, they are nearly identical.

The takeaway is that Okeke shot more efficiently from Morey-Ball shot locations.

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Here is some of what NBA.com draft analysis page said about Okeke:

"Can put the ball on the floor and attack the rim with deceptive speed and impacts the game in a variety of ways inside. Can post up smaller wings, sneak behind the defense with good timing as a cutter, and make effort plays on the glass. Initiates contact and fights through it to finish, shows good anticipation, and has the explosiveness to finish above the rim pretty effortlessly when he has space to gather. Averaged 1.318 points per finishing opportunity in the half court [83rd percentile]"

You keep saying that Okeke won't play this year...how are you arriving at that when ACL's take 6-9 months to recover? That means sometime between December-February expected return.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#983 » by ezzzp » Mon Sep 2, 2019 8:36 pm

Bensational wrote:Reckless passer? Sure, he was looking for the flashy play over the smart play more often than not. But this is a kid who came from one of the most well oiled and well groomed systems in college, so let's not try to paint a picture of him as loose cannon. What he did show is that he can step beyond that and serve as lead playmaker who is a threat to shoot, drive or pass at any point.

You called him "super inefficient" before. 43% overall on FG% isn't great, but 80% from FT on 5.75 attempts a game is pretty good. So's 41% from 3 on 8 attempts a game.... I hope Fournier can be that inefficient this season. :wink:

If you want to fall back on front office knows best, then that's fine. But you're not going to make much of a convincing case to discredit the promise and potential NAW has shown.


Summer League is not showing he could be a lead playmaker in the NBA. Summer League rosters are composed of 99% players who will NEVER play a single NBA minute, most won't even make G-League squads. AND those units met each other for first time that week so there were no offensive or defensive system running.

"Isn't great" is spin for poor efficiency...and it was actually worse - NAW shot 41% not 43%.

...and :lol: shooting 13-32 three's in 4 summer league games vs summer league scrubs is not even remotely close to Fournier shooting a career 37% (760-2051) vs NBA caliber players and done over the course of a full 82 game season.

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#984 » by ezzzp » Mon Sep 2, 2019 8:49 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
tiderulz wrote:they also had Bol Bol going 21, NAW going 24, Cam Johnson 25, Kevin Porter at 20, Johntay Porter 18 (went undrafted). so they arent exactly beacons of correctness.


actually both the Stepien and Schmitz have been very good at evaluating talent - that’s what matters

....that the Stepien has NAW ranked in lower tier only reinforces the Okeke pick for me...as does Schmitz’ praise

go it. Ignore the bad rankings, double down on the ones that you agree with :wink:

just having fun here


Actually no.

Ignore all the praise that some of the most respected draft analysts were giving Okeke and the pick, and double down on the meaningless mock draft # predictions - cause you know being picked 17 instead of 18-35 is "meaningful" in NBA context :wink:

Here's some fun:

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#985 » by tiderulz » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:49 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Bensational wrote:Reckless passer? Sure, he was looking for the flashy play over the smart play more often than not. But this is a kid who came from one of the most well oiled and well groomed systems in college, so let's not try to paint a picture of him as loose cannon. What he did show is that he can step beyond that and serve as lead playmaker who is a threat to shoot, drive or pass at any point.

You called him "super inefficient" before. 43% overall on FG% isn't great, but 80% from FT on 5.75 attempts a game is pretty good. So's 41% from 3 on 8 attempts a game.... I hope Fournier can be that inefficient this season. :wink:

If you want to fall back on front office knows best, then that's fine. But you're not going to make much of a convincing case to discredit the promise and potential NAW has shown.


Summer League is not showing he could be a lead playmaker in the NBA. Summer League rosters are composed of 99% players who will NEVER play a single NBA minute, most won't even make G-League squads. AND those units met each other for first time that week so there were no offensive or defensive system running.

"Isn't great" is spin for poor efficiency...and it was actually worse - NAW shot 41% not 43%.

...and :lol: shooting 13-32 three's in 4 summer league games vs summer league scrubs is not even remotely close to Fournier shooting a career 37% (760-2051) vs NBA caliber players and done over the course of a full 82 game season.

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except for you know, all the teams 1st and 2nd round picks for the last 2-3 years
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#986 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:12 pm

ezzzp wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:NAW had 139 assists to 97 turnovers in second year at college
Okeke had 73 assists to 66 turnovers

So Okeke was actually worst in that deparment

Okeke 59,7% TS to 58,6% NAW, given one is guard and other is wing ,and usage ,it's almost identical, especially knowing NAW averaged 4 points per game more.

Their overall 3 point shooting at college was also similar
Okeke was 88/229 ---38,9%
NAW 116/303 ---38,3%

That's virtually identical percentage, differential is below 0,1%.

Other than that Okeke seems to be Covington type of player , if he pans out.

Okeke's ball skills and shot creativity are limited. He attempted just 3.3 free throws per 40 minutes, a reflection on his predictability with the ball. Okeke could also improve his finishing in crowds, having shot just 18-of-45 on rolls to the basket while making one runner all season. And after he went 4-of-24 on pull-up jumpers, the scouting report will alert defense to close out hard and run him off the three-point line.

On top of all that, he won't play this season :roll:



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In modern basketball, position doesn't stipulate shot distribution to qualify TS%. Okeke is a versatile forward who plays both on the perimeter and inside. If you look at Okeke vs NAW's shot distribution, they are nearly identical.

The takeaway is that Okeke shot more efficiently from Morey-Ball shot locations.

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Here is some of what NBA.com draft analysis page said about Okeke:

"Can put the ball on the floor and attack the rim with deceptive speed and impacts the game in a variety of ways inside. Can post up smaller wings, sneak behind the defense with good timing as a cutter, and make effort plays on the glass. Initiates contact and fights through it to finish, shows good anticipation, and has the explosiveness to finish above the rim pretty effortlessly when he has space to gather. Averaged 1.318 points per finishing opportunity in the half court [83rd percentile]"

You keep saying that Okeke won't play this year...how are you arriving at that when ACL's take 9-12 months to recover? That means sometime between December-February expected return.


Average TS% for guards in nba is around 53%
Average TS for center is 59%

Among 79 point guards in nba only 5 had TS% of 60% or higher.
Among 81 SGs in nba only 2 had TS% of 60 or higher
Among 79 SFs in nba 11 had TS of 60 or higher
among 67 PFs in nba 15 had TS of 60 or highrer
among 55 Cs in nba 17 had TS of 60 or higher

Conclusion is as clear as it gets, taller you are and closer your position is to the rim, greater your TS% will be, therfore your claim
In modern basketball, position doesn't stipulate shot distribution to qualify TS%
is flat out wrong because there is historic evidence that guards have much worst TS% than wings and especially Cs because their shots are always better contested, their drivers always bring more attention and they are trusted to make right plays and take big shots when games are on the line, where most of bigs are nothing but rolling big men who get a ball in lobs or inside 3 feet where at average nba player shoot over 68% and Cs over 70%. Odds are , you simply won't miss lot of dunks.

IF he actually initiated contact as article claims, he would have way more than 1 shooting foul draw per game.
If he actually did have ability to put ball on the floor he would make more than 4 freaking pull up jumpers whole season.
if he was overall more versitale, he would aslo average more than 12 points a game. Especially because he was second year college player.
If he actually plays well inside the paint, than he would not shoot 40% in situations as rolling man off screen.

But that's the typical college problem with evaluation of guys like him, Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Harrison Barnes, Jabari Parker and similar prospects. You have tall for college, 6'8 kid that has some skills. But he is also scaling up to 225-240 pounds . So he is more skilled than one portion of competition , but simply more stronger than the others, so you have guys like Derick Williams at college, putting up cartoonish 20 ppg on 59% FG, 56,8% for 3 and 75% FTs on 8,7 FTA.
Guy was simply stronger than smaller players, faster than bigger ones, standing at 6'8 -235.
Went in NBA, and he was no longer fastest, strongest wing on the floor and now he is in Germany.


Let's not forget that's what happend to Beasley as well. 6'9 -235 at college, 26 ppg and one of most historic seasons in college basketball. In nba he had no position to play. He also was " good to great" spot up shooter who couldn't shoot in nba.

Until Okeke actually enters nba and shoots some solid amount of shots, on solid percentages, you simply don't know can he actually shoot that well. There is army of wings who on moderate sample size, against college competition and shorter 3 point line looked like great shooters just to turn into players who can't shoot at nba level at all.

Hell, few years back Lonzo and Ingram were painted as " amazing shooters"
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#987 » by Knightro » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:12 pm

tiderulz wrote:except for you know, all the teams 1st and 2nd round picks for the last 2-3 years


This is true, but in the grand scheme of things that's still a very small percentage of the total number of players playing in Vegas.

Only like 15% of the guys who go to Vegas are guys with NBA contracts.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#988 » by Bensational » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:15 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Bensational wrote:Reckless passer? Sure, he was looking for the flashy play over the smart play more often than not. But this is a kid who came from one of the most well oiled and well groomed systems in college, so let's not try to paint a picture of him as loose cannon. What he did show is that he can step beyond that and serve as lead playmaker who is a threat to shoot, drive or pass at any point.

You called him "super inefficient" before. 43% overall on FG% isn't great, but 80% from FT on 5.75 attempts a game is pretty good. So's 41% from 3 on 8 attempts a game.... I hope Fournier can be that inefficient this season. :wink:

If you want to fall back on front office knows best, then that's fine. But you're not going to make much of a convincing case to discredit the promise and potential NAW has shown.


Summer League is not showing he could be a lead playmaker in the NBA. Summer League rosters are composed of 99% players who will NEVER play a single NBA minute, most won't even make G-League squads. AND those units met each other for first time that week so there were no offensive or defensive system running.

"Isn't great" is spin for poor efficiency...and it was actually worse - NAW shot 41% not 43%.

...and :lol: shooting 13-32 three's in 4 summer league games vs summer league scrubs is not even remotely close to Fournier shooting a career 37% (760-2051) vs NBA caliber players and done over the course of a full 82 game season.

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It's not 'spin' for anything. It's an evaluation of 4 games in which NAW showed he was capable of bigger things than he showed on college. He has 2 games shooting over 50% and one terrible game at 21% which dragged his averages down. That's not 'super inefficient' by any means. Super inefficient was what Fournier gave us in the playoffs.

Shooting 40% on 8 3fgas a game is a great effort, even in summer league. To paint that as anything but promising is absolutely absurd.

NAW would be a prospect for the future, but his game is developed enough that he would emerge in the near future, not long term like Bamba and Isaac. NAW, as a prospect, brings a complete game and a full arsenal of tools.

Why would you try to compare the standard of playing against pros to the standard of summer league when NAW hasn't had the chance to play with the pros yet? That doesn't make summer league numbers useless.

Fournier played summer league, too. He averaged 14.8ppg on 41% shooting, and 37% from 3 on 6 attempts a game. Suuuuuuper inefficient. And he clearly never went on to have an NBA career.

But you know who were the top scorers of his summer league? Lillard, Kawhi, Butler, Tobias and the only outlier being Josh Selby. So in that instance, it was a pretty good indicator of future talent.

As for Chuma, I can't say because he hasn't even played summer league. But I am very hopeful for him, too. But NAW looks like a solid bet to be a very good player, and we've seen him perform at the next stage above college ball, too. Can't say that for Chuma yet.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#989 » by ezzzp » Mon Sep 2, 2019 11:54 pm

pepe1991 wrote: You keep asking where would NAW play, yet never adress fact that Okeke won't play.
You said above in reply that his timetable of return is 9 to 12 months and most positive outcome is him playing as early as this December, yet you keep ignoring that he probably won't even sign contract with Orlando Magic for 2019-20.


I'm not ignoring anything. I have already addressed this earlier in this thread:

"The Magic luxury tax space is tight, so filling out the 15th roster spot will take some finesse depending on who (or if anyone) makes the roster. The Okeke contract would need to be structured according to how that plays out...that's what I believe the Magic and Okeke are waiting on.

If Jeffries (or min player) doesn't make the team, then they sign Okeke to the normal full 120% contract after training camp. If Jeffries (or another minimum salary player) makes the team, then the Magic structure Okeke's contract at 117% first year amount and 120% for years 2-4:


Spoiler:
19-20: (117%) $3,042,053
20-21: (120%) $3,277,080
21-22: (120%) $3,433,320
22-23: (120%) $5,266,713
Total: $15,020,166


The difference is only $78,027 less for Okeke...and that's only IF the Magic fill the 15th spot in training camp."

pepe1991 wrote:Magic have need at guard position because their guard rotation is:
Augustin - 1 year left contract
Evan Fournier- 1+1 year contract
MCW- 1 year contract
Fultz -1 +1 yeras contract
Ross -new contract

NAW is guard who can shoot, handle ball ,score and pass good enough to be playable . He is probably today automatic upgrade over MCW who isn't "true " PG anyway and who has history of being more harmful than helpful whenever he plays ,minus 12 games for Magic at the end of last season.


NAW is not replacing the starting PG role. Its pretty easy to see that if Fultz doesn't look like he's on way to be a starter caliber PG, there will be trade for a starting caliber PG...and thus the roster will be totally different.

Augustin - My guess is that DJ will be re-signed to be the 2nd/3d PG and finish off his career in Orlando.

Fultz - Unless Fultz is a total disaster, the FO will pick up his option for 20-21. Meaning he'll at minimum be the 2nd or 3d PG for next two seasons.

Fournier - If Fournier opts out, then Ross becomes the starting SG. The back up SG role will be filled with either Iwundu, Frazier, Jeffries or an MLE signing. Btw, Fournier opting out actually opens up minutes at SF for Okeke. If he doesn't opt out, those extra SF minutes become available a year later, and more in line with Okeke's maturation.

pepe1991 wrote:Given their trajcetory, experience and injury , there is virtually zero reasons to belive that Okeke is in any way superior prospect to NAW.


Neither I or the advanced metrics agree with your opinion.

• Kevin Pelton's (ESPN) projection model ranked Okeke as 8th best prospect in this draft.

• FiveThirtyEight's Carmelo model projects Okeke to be better than NAW:

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pepe1991 wrote:Above all that Okeke's biggest issue was complete lack of ability to draw fouls, witch happends to be biggest problem with Orlando in general.


Okeke had a .265 FTr, not a big difference from NAW who only had a .359 FTr while having the ball in his hands way more than Okeke.

pepe1991 wrote:He is also another player who does not have advanced passing skils or ability to play with ball in his hands and create for himself. Another issues Magic are facing on nightly bases.


Okeke is a good and very willing passer.

The Magic face that ball handling issue because they don't have a true starting PG. NAW doesn't fix that.

In addition, Fournier - the Magic's secondary playmaker - had an off year. Also, Gordon + Isaac are still in early stages of that development but will continue to improve their on-ball skills.

pepe1991 wrote:Funniest part about Okeke pick is that they drafted player who was same size, weigh, and similar skillset and build like Okeke in Justin Jackson, but he simply couldn't play due injury so they dropped him and replaced with another injuried player.


That is a ridiculous comparison. Not even close.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#990 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 3, 2019 12:02 am

tiderulz wrote:except for you know, all the teams 1st and 2nd round picks for the last 2-3 years


Those that watched SL know that just like Orlando, teams didn't play their NBA guys - the few that did only played for limited minutes.

Here's the list, look for yourself:

https://www.nba.com/summerleague/2019/stats
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#991 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 3, 2019 12:58 am

pepe1991 wrote:Average TS% for guards in nba is around 53%
Average TS for center is 59%


Chuma or NAW do not play PG or Center in the NBA. Here are the relevant positional averages:

Average TS% for a SG is 54%
Average TS% for both SF and PF's is 55%

I'm sure you know that line is blurry for SG-PF in modern position-less basketball where those 3 positions are very fluid.

Plus I already showed you their shot distribution and NAW and Okeke had same volume is same shot locations.

pepe1991 wrote:IF he actually initiated contact as article claims, he would have way more than 1 shooting foul draw per game.


Okeke had a .265 FTr, not a big difference from NAW who had a .359 FTr while having the ball in his hands.

pepe1991 wrote:If he actually did have ability to put ball on the floor he would make more than 4 freaking pull up jumpers whole season. If he was overall more versitale, he would aslo average more than 12 points a game. Especially because he was second year college player. If he actually plays well inside the paint, than he would not shoot 40% in situations as rolling man off screen.


NAW was 2nd year player also, and he only averaged 16 points a game on 12 FGA's while having ball in his hands and vs easier 7.79 SOS. Okeke scored 12 points on 9 FGA's and he did it vs 12.09 SOS.

pepe1991 wrote:Until Okeke actually enters nba and shoots some solid amount of shots, on solid percentages, you simply don't know can he actually shoot that well. There is army of wings who on moderate sample size, against college competition and shorter 3 point line looked like great shooters just to turn into players who can't shoot at nba level at all. Hell, few years back Lonzo and Ingram were painted as " amazing shooters"


You can say the exact same thing about NAW.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#992 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 3, 2019 1:43 am

Bensational wrote:It's not 'spin' for anything. It's an evaluation of 4 games in which NAW showed he was capable of bigger things than he showed on college. He has 2 games shooting over 50% and one terrible game at 21% which dragged his averages down. That's not 'super inefficient' by any means. Super inefficient was what Fournier gave us in the playoffs.


Its absolutely spin...in no way shape or form is 41% not inefficient. Fournier in worst shooting year of career shot 43.8% vs NBA players. NAW wouldn't even get off the bench vs that Toronto defense.

...and fyi, inconsistency has been knock on NAW, so that up and down vs non-NBA players was normal for him.

Bensational wrote:Shooting 40% on 8 3fgas a game is a great effort, even in summer league. To paint that as anything but promising is absolutely absurd.


What is absurd is that you're fine with a microscopic sample size vs non-NBA players and are desperate to discount Fournier's 3P% at high volume sample done vs actual NBA players and NBA conditions.

Bensational wrote:NAW would be a prospect for the future, but his game is developed enough that he would emerge in the near future, not long term like Bamba and Isaac. NAW, as a prospect, brings a complete game and a full arsenal of tools.


...and Okeke is also a prospect for the future...and one who draft/NBA analyst and advanced metric's love. On top of the praise many analyst gave Okeke, projection models love him. Kevin Pelton's model projected him to be one of the best in this class. FiveThirtyEight's Carmelo projection thinks he'll be better than NAW:

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Bensational wrote:Why would you try to compare the standard of playing against pros to the standard of summer league when NAW hasn't had the chance to play with the pros yet? That doesn't make summer league numbers useless.


Why are you trying to pretend that SL numbers are indicators of NBA ability? SL numbers ARE useless and have no relationship to NBA projected performance.

Bensational wrote:Fournier played summer league, too. He averaged 14.8ppg on 41% shooting, and 37% from 3 on 6 attempts a game. Suuuuuuper inefficient. And he clearly never went on to have an NBA career

But you know who were the top scorers of his summer league? Lillard, Kawhi, Butler, Tobias and the only outlier being Josh Selby. So in that instance, it was a pretty good indicator of future talent.


...and here are other top scorers in past Summer League's:

Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Keith Bogans, Casey Jacobson, Sebastian Telfair, John Lucas, Maurice Ager, Craig Smith, Von Wafer, Alando Tucker, JJ Hickson, Adam Morrison, Sam Young, Jeffrey Taylor, Andrew Goudeleck, Mike Scott, Randy Foye, Marcus Banks, Quincy Douby, Jared Bayless, Anthony Randolph, Anthony Morrow, Reggie Williams, Jordan McRae, Glen Rice Jr, Seth Curry, Trey Lyles, Khris Dunn, Oleksiy Pecherov, Emmanuel Mudiay, Wayne Selden, Troy Williams, Malik Monk, Antonio Blakely....

like I said, it means nothing.

...and just because Fournier sucked in SL, that doesn't mean that NAW will have same trajectory
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#993 » by Bensational » Tue Sep 3, 2019 1:55 am

ezzzp wrote:
Bensational wrote:It's not 'spin' for anything. It's an evaluation of 4 games in which NAW showed he was capable of bigger things than he showed on college. He has 2 games shooting over 50% and one terrible game at 21% which dragged his averages down. That's not 'super inefficient' by any means. Super inefficient was what Fournier gave us in the playoffs.


Its absolutely spin...in no way shape or form is 41% not inefficient. Fournier in worst shooting year of career shot 43.8% vs NBA players. NAW wouldn't even get off the bench vs that Toronto defense.

...and fyi, inconsistency has been knock on NAW, so that up and down vs non-NBA players was normal for him.

Bensational wrote:Shooting 40% on 8 3fgas a game is a great effort, even in summer league. To paint that as anything but promising is absolutely absurd.


What is absurd is that you're fine with a microscopic sample size vs non-NBA players and are desperate to discount Fournier's 3P% at high volume sample done vs actual NBA players and NBA conditions.

Bensational wrote:NAW would be a prospect for the future, but his game is developed enough that he would emerge in the near future, not long term like Bamba and Isaac. NAW, as a prospect, brings a complete game and a full arsenal of tools.


...and Okeke is also a prospect for the future...and one who draft/NBA analyst and advanced metric's love. On top of the praise many analyst gave Okeke, projection models love him. Kevin Pelton's model projected him to be one of the best in this class. FiveThirtyEight's Carmelo projection thinks he'll be better than NAW:

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Bensational wrote:Why would you try to compare the standard of playing against pros to the standard of summer league when NAW hasn't had the chance to play with the pros yet? That doesn't make summer league numbers useless.


Why are you trying to pretend that SL numbers are indicators of NBA ability? SL numbers ARE useless and have no relationship to NBA projected performance.

Bensational wrote:Fournier played summer league, too. He averaged 14.8ppg on 41% shooting, and 37% from 3 on 6 attempts a game. Suuuuuuper inefficient. And he clearly never went on to have an NBA career

But you know who were the top scorers of his summer league? Lillard, Kawhi, Butler, Tobias and the only outlier being Josh Selby. So in that instance, it was a pretty good indicator of future talent.


...other SL's top scorers:

Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Keith Bogans, Casey Jacobson, Sebastian Telfair, John Lucas, Maurice Ager, Craig Smith, Von Wafer, Alando Tucker, JJ Hickson, Adam Morrison, Sam Young, Jeffrey Taylor, Andrew Goudeleck, Mike Scott, Randy Foye, Marcus Banks, Quincy Douby, Jared Bayless, Anthony Randolph, Anthony Morrow, Reggie Williams, Jordan McRae, Glen Rice Jr, Seth Curry, Trey Lyles, Khris Dunn, Oleksiy Pecherov, Emmanuel Mudiay, Wayne Selden, Troy Williams, Malik Monk, Antonio Blakely....

like I said, it means nothing.

...and just because Fournier sucked in SL, that doesn't mean that NAW will have same trajectory


The only spin going on here is you trying to paint a picture that NAW doesn't look promising whilst praising every thing Fournier does - even if it's the same or worse.

It will be interesting to revisit this in a couple of seasons.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#994 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Sep 3, 2019 2:04 am

ezzzp wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Average TS% for guards in nba is around 53%
Average TS for center is 59%


Chuma or NAW won't play PG or Center in the NBA. Here are the relevant positional averages:

Average TS% for a SG is 54%
Average TS% for both SF and PF's is 55%

I'm sure you know that line is blurry for SG-PF in modern position-less basketball where those 3 positions are very fluid.

Plus I already showed you their shot distribution and NAW and Okeke had same volume is same shot locations.

pepe1991 wrote:IF he actually initiated contact as article claims, he would have way more than 1 shooting foul draw per game.


Okeke had a .265 FTr, not a big difference from NAW who had a .359 FTr while having the ball in his hands.

pepe1991 wrote:If he actually did have ability to put ball on the floor he would make more than 4 freaking pull up jumpers whole season. If he was overall more versitale, he would aslo average more than 12 points a game. Especially because he was second year college player. If he actually plays well inside the paint, than he would not shoot 40% in situations as rolling man off screen.


NAW was 2nd year player also, and he only averaged 16 points a game on 12 FGA's while having ball in his hands and vs easier 7.79 SOS. Okeke scored 12 points on 9 FGA's and he did it vs 12.09 SOS.

pepe1991 wrote:Until Okeke actually enters nba and shoots some solid amount of shots, on solid percentages, you simply don't know can he actually shoot that well. There is army of wings who on moderate sample size, against college competition and shorter 3 point line looked like great shooters just to turn into players who can't shoot at nba level at all. Hell, few years back Lonzo and Ingram were painted as " amazing shooters"


You can say the exact same thing about NAW.

The thing that i remembered was that.... Chuma had a great season..... BUT.... it was the trajectory and improvement that he showed towards the end of the season and going into the tournament that was peaking peoples interest. He was blossoming in front of everyone's eyes and THEN.... the injury happened.

but needless to say.... he IS a good player. and there are no guarantees for him or NAW. No matter what we saw in summer league. It might be a year or so away... but we will see how they all turn out. Shoot they can both turn out great. Just happened that orlando saw more in Chuma and what he brings to the game.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#995 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 3, 2019 2:15 am

Bensational wrote:The only spin going on here is you trying to paint a picture that NAW doesn't look promising whilst praising every thing Fournier does - even if it's the same or worse.

It will be interesting to revisit this in a couple of seasons.


What? LMAO I didn't bring up Fournier, you did: " I hope Fournier can be that inefficient this season." etc etc etc

...and here is even more pre/post draft praise on Okeke from Jonathan Givony (ESPN/Draft Express):

• Pre-Draft Analysis

Okeke's stats-only projection -- where he's No. 8 on Kevin Pelton's board -- doesn't account for the torn ACL he suffered in Auburn's Sweet 16 win over North Carolina, which will presumably sideline him much of next season and caused him to tumble on draft boards. A team that doesn't need Okeke to contribute next season could get a steal once he returns to the court.

• Post-Draft Analysis

Okeke going 16th with a torn ACL makes you wonder how high he might have gone had he not injured himself in the NCAA tournament Sweet 16 against North Carolina. He is a prototype for the modern NBA with his chiseled frame and long arms combined with an ability to play pick-and-roll, make 3-pointers, switch onto big men and even provide some ballhandling at times. -- Jonathan Givony
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#996 » by ezzzp » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:49 pm

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#997 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 11:02 pm

ezzzp wrote:


Call me crazy, but he has a poor mans Kawhi game in him. Looks like a rich mans Tobias Harris.
PM me if you can help a brotha finally get an AVI.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#998 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 11:23 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:


Call me crazy, but he has a poor mans Kawhi game in him. Looks like a rich mans Tobias Harris.

For your coach to cry on national television because of your injury.... you must be some special kind of individual. And the way that his teammates rallied around him.

Read that some thought that Auburn would have taken the tournament if he didn't get injured. Might not look sexy but he seems like a difference-maker on the court.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#999 » by basketballRob » Sat Sep 7, 2019 12:48 am

yoyojw17 wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
ezzzp wrote:


Call me crazy, but he has a poor mans Kawhi game in him. Looks like a rich mans Tobias Harris.

For your coach to cry on national television because of your injury.... you must be some special kind of individual. And the way that his teammates rallied around him.

Read that some thought that Auburn would have taken the tournament if he didn't get injured. Might not look sexy but he seems like a difference-maker on the court.
If Chuma didn't get injured he may of catapulted into the top 10.

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1000 » by NatiboyB » Sat Sep 7, 2019 1:26 pm

Sheez just realized he's not even on 2K.

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