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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1821 » by pepe1991 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:54 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:So Lowry dropped from US team as well.


He medically withdrew and was not "dropped".


“I was hoping to be available in time to help my country in their quest for gold in this upcoming tournament,” Lowry wrote on Instagram. “I love playing for USAB but I have to sit this one out and support the team from home.”

..



In mean time Sebastian Telfair signed 3 and half years contract with USA prison.... :banghead:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1822 » by MoMM » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:08 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:So Lowry dropped from US team as well.


He medically withdrew and was not "dropped".


“I was hoping to be available in time to help my country in their quest for gold in this upcoming tournament,” Lowry wrote on Instagram. “I love playing for USAB but I have to sit this one out and support the team from home.”

..

Not sure if this USAB team will win gold. It's like a Team C or D, perhaps not even that.

BTW, it's a shame that they didn't take Melo, IMO. He is their all-time scorer and his game matches for FIBA basket.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1823 » by Def Swami » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 pm

Same boring logo on the court. :(
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1824 » by ezzzp » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:29 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1825 » by Def Swami » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:37 pm

ezzzp wrote:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1826 » by The Real Dalic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Def Swami wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
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And AG's dunk contest.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1827 » by j-ragg » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:54 pm

Def Swami wrote:Same boring logo on the court. :(
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Could be wrong but I assumed the “new court” thing was just an every now and then gimmick. Like the Heat do when they wear their Vice uniforms. Analogous to when we wear our Orange ones maybe. We are all in the dark though I wonder when they’ll announce the new look.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1828 » by pepe1991 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:59 pm

We can open individual stat predictions thread.
If i'm not busy right now i would do it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1829 » by drsd » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:55 pm

Moved this to put it back on topic:

pepe1991 wrote:Birch was simply better. There is nothing to argue about it. Complete turnaround in production of bench in addition of Magic turnaround of season isn't accident , it happend after Grant and Bamba were removed from rotation.



Bamba vs. Birch LINK

What one sees is that both players were quite comparable (with Bamba much better at blocks per 36), EXCEPT on offensive efficiency. Birch dominated Bamba on FG% and on FT%. So in a lot less chances, he scored about the same per 36.

I think moving forward the questions are i) can Bamba grow into something more than last year and ii) can Birch?

The answer to i) needs to be YES, if the Magic is going to grow from last season. And the answer to ii) is very unlikely. Bamba needs to beat out Borch for primary back-up. Otherwise, the Magic is probably looking at another low 40s win total.

..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1830 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:45 pm

drsd wrote:Moved this to put it back on topic:

pepe1991 wrote:Birch was simply better. There is nothing to argue about it. Complete turnaround in production of bench in addition of Magic turnaround of season isn't accident , it happend after Grant and Bamba were removed from rotation.



Bamba vs. Birch LINK

What one sees is that both players were quite comparable (with Bamba much better at blocks per 36), EXCEPT on offensive efficiency. Birch dominated Bamba on FG% and on FT%. So in a lot less chances, he scored about the same per 36.

I think moving forward the questions are i) can Bamba grow into something more than last year and ii) can Birch?

The answer to i) needs to be YES, if the Magic is going to grow from last season. And the answer to ii) is very unlikely. Bamba needs to beat out Borch for primary back-up. Otherwise, the Magic is probably looking at another low 40s win total.

..
Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.

Bamba didn't lose his spot in the rotation to Birch, he was injured.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1831 » by ezzzp » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Moved these from Hassani Gravett thread to keep that one on topic:

PrimeThyme wrote:Bamba will be the backup center to start the season. I'm positive on that, he is not a potential rotation piece. Now, whether or not he can play well enough to keep it from Birch throughout the season is another question.


Bamba will have to earn it. Clifford nor Birch are just handing it to him. Khem doesn't give a d**n that Bamba was a high pick or how popular Bamba is on social media.

Khem looked very good last year and was crucial to that playoff run. That carried over to the FIBA game where he again looked really nice. Birch is hungry and he will fight Bamba tooth and nail to keep his back up center role...no way do I just write him off.

Bamba, on the other hand, is coming off of a stress fracture and has not played an NBA game since January 2019. In summer league, he only played 25 minutes and then was sat for rest of SL for "precautionary reason's." There is no telling how physically ready he'll be in training camp, and that's before you even start discussing wether he can be more impactful than Birch.

basketballRob wrote: Bamba will probably be much better than Birch on offense too. Birch played during the easiest part of the season and if Bamba was healthy we'd probably have the same result.


Maybe...right now that's potential, not actual. I'm not saying he won't be, just that right now its purely hypothetical.

From an Offensive Rating pov, Birch had a vastly superior impact to the offense: Bamba 94.3 ORtg / Birch 105.9 ORtg.

While shooting is a skill Bamba has that Birch doesn't possess, it wasn't actually a good thing for the offense. From outside the restricted area to the 3PT line, Mo shot 28-81 at a very bad .346 FG%. Behind the arc, he shot 21-70 .300 3P%. So far, that perimeter shooting volume by Bamba has been a problem for the 2nd unit offense.

While there are arguments to be made that the back up PG situation and Jonathan Simmons were factors to Bamba's very low ORtg, his shooting and inexperienced bbIQ definitely played a role in why that second unit offense was so bad.

Moving forward, Bamba does look like he should be a better offensive player. His body and bbIQ should improve at a steady pace.

Both Birch and Bamba are very competent around the rim. Inside of 5 ft, Bamba shot a really nice 69-95 .726 FG%; and Birch shot 73-110 .664 FG%.

In the PnR, Birch was a little better roller...but as Bamba gets thicker and improves technically he should surpass him:

Bamba Possessions 64: / Frequency: 20.4% / Points Per Possession: 1.19 / eFG%: 58.3
Birch Possessions 60: / Frequency: 28.4% / Points Per Possession: 1.25 / eFG%: 61.7

From a hustle perspective, Birch is more active and the numbers flesh that out. This is an area were Bamba needs to really focus on if he's to beat out Birch this training camp. Creating extra possessions and momentum shifting plays are huge for a second unit.

Per36
Offensive Rebounding: Bamba 3.0 / Birch 4.4
Deflections: Bamba 1.0 / Birch 1.8
Loose Balls Recovered: Bamba 1.3 / Birch 1.6
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1832 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:02 pm

Obviously Bamba had to get stronger and he did, much like JI did year 1 to year 2.

If he improves at the same rate Isaac did, this won't be a topic.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1833 » by ezzzp » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:37 pm

basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Moved this to put it back on topic:

pepe1991 wrote:Birch was simply better. There is nothing to argue about it. Complete turnaround in production of bench in addition of Magic turnaround of season isn't accident , it happend after Grant and Bamba were removed from rotation.



Bamba vs. Birch LINK

What one sees is that both players were quite comparable (with Bamba much better at blocks per 36), EXCEPT on offensive efficiency. Birch dominated Bamba on FG% and on FT%. So in a lot less chances, he scored about the same per 36.

I think moving forward the questions are i) can Bamba grow into something more than last year and ii) can Birch?

The answer to i) needs to be YES, if the Magic is going to grow from last season. And the answer to ii) is very unlikely. Bamba needs to beat out Borch for primary back-up. Otherwise, the Magic is probably looking at another low 40s win total.

..


Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.

Bamba didn't lose his spot in the rotation to Birch, he was injured.


While Birch is older, he is entering his peak prime. That's when most NBA players have their best production and impact on winning. At that stage, guys don't usually develop new skills, but they do get smarter and more effective at executing the ones they do have + their bodies are at physical peak.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1834 » by basketballRob » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:39 am

ezzzp wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Moved this to put it back on topic:




Bamba vs. Birch LINK

What one sees is that both players were quite comparable (with Bamba much better at blocks per 36), EXCEPT on offensive efficiency. Birch dominated Bamba on FG% and on FT%. So in a lot less chances, he scored about the same per 36.

I think moving forward the questions are i) can Bamba grow into something more than last year and ii) can Birch?

The answer to i) needs to be YES, if the Magic is going to grow from last season. And the answer to ii) is very unlikely. Bamba needs to beat out Borch for primary back-up. Otherwise, the Magic is probably looking at another low 40s win total.

..


Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.

Bamba didn't lose his spot in the rotation to Birch, he was injured.


While Birch is older, he is entering his peak prime. That's when most NBA players have their best production and impact on winning. At that stage, guys don't usually develop new skills, but they do get smarter and more effective at executing the ones they do have + their bodies are at physical peak.
Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1835 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:46 am

Def Swami wrote:Same boring logo on the court. :(
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Well done

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1836 » by pepe1991 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:49 am

basketballRob wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.

Bamba didn't lose his spot in the rotation to Birch, he was injured.


While Birch is older, he is entering his peak prime. That's when most NBA players have their best production and impact on winning. At that stage, guys don't usually develop new skills, but they do get smarter and more effective at executing the ones they do have + their bodies are at physical peak.
Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.

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Nobody argues can Bamba be better, question is how fast can he surpass Birch.
Birch is IMO better suited for backup C anyway as he doesn't need ball and plays like high energy guy. Where Bamba on some nights just drifts through motions and that was knock on him dating back to college.

There is option that Magic will force Bamba upon Birch due draft stock on start of the season (again) so he will make it or break it . But i think Clifford will use preseason and camp to see who gives him more and make decision based on it. Magic are not really rebuilding, rookies won't be awarded min any more.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1837 » by drsd » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:50 am

basketballRob wrote:Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.


I meant basketball development, not physical growth.

But yes Bamba has a lot more there to be found, and Birch does not.


..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1838 » by ezzzp » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:55 am

basketballRob wrote:Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.


I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1839 » by basketballRob » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:15 am

drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Bamba will grow much more than Birch this year. He's 21 and Birch is 27.


I meant basketball development, not physical growth.

But yes Bamba has a lot more there to be found, and Birch does not.


..
With strength, he should be more of a presence around the basket. If he could increase the percentage of shots at the basket from 35 to 50% while increasing his outside percentage, he'll be a much better.

Isaac did the same thing year one to year two.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1840 » by drsd » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 pm

basketballRob wrote:With strength, he should be more of a presence around the basket. If he could increase the percentage of shots at the basket from 35 to 50% while increasing his outside percentage, he'll be a much better.


If you are arguing that Bamba would be projected to be a touch more efficient this year on offense, and that that will help him log the majority of back-up C minutes, yes I agree.


..

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