Some Weltman philosophy insight?

[npiper17]

Scott Anez had a semi-insightful interview with Jeff Weltman earlier this week. Usually this stuff is a whole lot of nothing but I found Jeff’s comments re team building / star acquisition interesting.

Go to the 10:40 mark where he talks about the ways you can acquire stars other than via free agency. For me it provides some insight as to why he’s so keen to keep winning whilst developing and maintaining trade assets (declining contracts / value contracts like Birch, etc).

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[Orange Ave.]

Paraphrasing Weltman's comments:

"You have to know what the pathway to success can be in your market. You have to identify what that is and execute it.

The first part of the pathway is showing people that we can win here.

It's not all free agency...I'm hopeful that the young guys are gonna grow up on this team and we don't have to do anything.

But right now, organizationally, the most important things we can do are to build a roster with talented players who fit together and develop our young players."

[Furinkazan]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

[Def Swami]

This is basically the approach that the Milwaukee Bucks and Toronto Raptors took, the two franchises our GM and POBO came from.

[ezzzp]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

tanking is a treadmill

player movement around the league is creating trades at a fever pitch in the NBA and has been trending that way for a while - it is absolutely not a "0% chance of happening"

[npiper17]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

It’s not a case of a player forcing a trade to the Magic, it’s a case of being in a position to acquire a guy like Kawhi when they force their way out but have no choice over their destination.

Now whether you agree with that approach and what follows after (that player likely leaving) is another discussion but it brought the Raptors a championship this year.

[OrlandO]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

[PrimeThyme]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

[Instincts]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

Is it a guard dominated league?? Seems like it was a Kawhi and Giannis dominated league.

[OrlandO]

treadmill that is
unless one of the youngs (which we dont have that many ) pans out?

or?
I was right and he does wait for Kobe's and Mj's in their prime to force their way out to join the Magic and he collects assets for that 0% chance of happening situation.

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

[Skybox]

let's tank for 4 years in hopes of drafting a WestBeast...or trade for one tomorrow

[PrimeThyme]

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

No, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest to trade away our promising young players for expiring vets and to cap out our roster with bad contracts, actually.

[MagicStarwipe]

I think there is something to be said for building a culture. You look at Philly, and even though they got their stars, it seems like a situation that could implode at any moment.

[ReadyOrlando]

People who have ever owned a business or served in a paying Leadership capacity understand this. Listen to the T-Ross interview and how he talks about his perception of the team, his and Vuc's, conversations and relationships he has throughout the organization. That's the results of Weltman's philosophy.

[VFX]

So you'd be happier and more patient if we were losing games and not building up our assets?

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

One could argue his rebuild only failed in the later stages in panic mode. Not only that, but this is still largely his roster... so...

[OrlandO]

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

No, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest to trade away our promising young players for expiring vets and to cap out our roster with bad contracts, actually.

But that's how it works out sometimes. Living in the lotto is far from the perfect method some make it out to be. We got 3 top 5 picks, a lotto PG, and a few pretty big sleeper hits through trades... and look what happened. We built a losing culture, the pieces didn't fit, we couldn't win, and we panicked when it came time to produce actual results. Oops. And guess what... there are plenty more teams that did exactly what you're talking about and never became contenders.

So Weltman didn't take the path some wanted... they're just going to continue pouting about it even if there are positive results? He has to build a contender overnight to get support?

[PrimeThyme]

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

No, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest to trade away our promising young players for expiring vets and to cap out our roster with bad contracts, actually.

But that's how it works out sometimes. Living in the lotto is far from the perfect method some make it out to be. We got 3 top 5 picks, a lotto PG, and a few pretty big sleeper hits through trades... and look what happened. We built a losing culture, the pieces didn't fit, we couldn't win, and we panicked when it came time to produce actual results. Oops. And guess what... there are plenty more teams that did exactly what you're talking about and never became contenders.

So Weltman didn't take the path some wanted... they're just going to continue pouting about it even if there are positive results? He has to build a contender overnight to get support?

Free agent/Dipo/Harris/AG/Vuc would easily be a top 3 team in the East right now. Yes, it does require a competent GM to not trade away all the valuable pieces for scraps but I wouldn’t say the top 5 pick method is what failed him it was inexperience and a incompetent basketball operations putting pressure on him to win now. If he could have hired his coach and seen it through with that core another year or 2 I believe things would have ended differently.

I think this year is what some people are waiting for. Let’s see how Vuc/Ross play after their contracts and if guys like Fultz/Bamba can produce and if Isaac can continue to show progress. If those things pan out and we wind up as a top 6 seed in the East I think it will shut a lot of people up. Right now there are still many questions

[OrlandO]

I think some people would rather be collecting different type of assets. Losing more games and getting into the lottery would result in higher quality assets if we lost enough to land inside of the top 5.

I also think there is an argument that collecting front court players in a now guard/perimeter dominated league might not be the smartest bet.

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

One could argue his rebuild only failed in the later stages in panic mode. Not only that, but this is still largely his roster... so...

Can't omit the later stage just because it didn't work out like a fairy tale. It's still part of his rebuild, arguably the most important part. It's all fun and games until you actually have to deliver results. It was year 5. Panic is what you get when you're out of time and fail to deliver on promises.

[VFX]

So... like Hennigan's failed rebuild?

One could argue his rebuild only failed in the later stages in panic mode. Not only that, but this is still largely his roster... so...

Can't omit the later stage just because it didn't work out like a fairy tale. It's still part of his rebuild, arguably the most important part. It's all fun and games until you actually have to deliver results. It was year 5. Panic is what you get when you're out of time and fail to deliver on promises.

So what about the part where this FO is still basically using his roster? Albeit he had better players at one point in time if he just stuck to his original plan. Nobody is omitting his failures, but you also can’t give Weltman credit for not building anything in the first place, other than drafting Isaac in one out of the 3 drafts they’ve selected.

The jury is absolutely still out on this FO and it’s the third offseason with doubling down on players they never acquired themselves. Here we are, in less time than Hennigan had, praising a FO that has done nothing but bring back the previous regime’s roster. You would think people would not only be more skeptical, but save the adulation until they actually accomplish something substantial.

It’s hilarious that Weltman and Hammond mention Giannis whenever they possibly can. It’ll be their claim to fame despite many misfires and developing an obvious draft bias because of it.

[OrlandO]

No, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest to trade away our promising young players for expiring vets and to cap out our roster with bad contracts, actually.

But that's how it works out sometimes. Living in the lotto is far from the perfect method some make it out to be. We got 3 top 5 picks, a lotto PG, and a few pretty big sleeper hits through trades... and look what happened. We built a losing culture, the pieces didn't fit, we couldn't win, and we panicked when it came time to produce actual results. Oops. And guess what... there are plenty more teams that did exactly what you're talking about and never became contenders.

So Weltman didn't take the path some wanted... they're just going to continue pouting about it even if there are positive results? He has to build a contender overnight to get support?

Free agent/Dipo/Harris/AG/Vuc would easily be a top 3 team in the East right now. Yes, it does require a competent GM to not trade away all the valuable pieces for scraps but I wouldn’t say the top 5 pick method is what failed him it was inexperience and a incompetent basketball operations putting pressure on him to win now. If he could have hired his coach and seen it through with that core another year or 2 I believe things would have ended differently.

I think this year is what some people are waiting for. Let’s see how Vuc/Ross play after their contracts and if guys like Fultz/Bamba can produce and if Isaac can continue to show progress. If those things pan out and we wind up as a top 6 seed in the East I think it will shut a lot of people up. Right now there are still many questions

**** happens... and it happens a lot with rebuilds. Plenty of failed rebuilds out there despite collecting good assets.
The scenario you described for next season won't shut up those who are crying about Hennigan players and being a treadmill team.