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Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2

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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#101 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:56 am

The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:It's true. People still talking about trading Vuc in this very thread. There's nothing short of winning a championship that he could do that would please some here.


Showing up in a playoff series would be a good start.

Sure give him mostly anyone else except the playoffs best defense and Marc Gasol who held Joel Embiid to sub-40% shooting as well and he should do better. Either that, or give him some offensive help and defenses won't be able to force him into tough situations the entire game.
He has problems with a lot of would be playoff opponents. Drummond, Lopez and Lopez, Embiid, Gasol, and Jordan/Allen might be tough.

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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#102 » by pepe1991 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:09 am

Replace Vučević from 2018-19 with vast majority of other NBA centers and there is no playoffs to talk about. That's just factual.

Joel Emiiid suffered from same faith facing Raptors.
He shot 36% FG and only was able to score 10 ppg from game, but he is simply better at drawing the fouls ( and gets star calls from refs, unlike most other Cs) so he menaged to have somwhat respecful 17 ppg on 13 FGA.
Even fact that best center in basketball couldn't even get more shots paints perfect picture of Raptors defense.

Demarcus Cousins in nba finals averaged 8,3 ppg on 36,7% FG on 11% for 3 against same defense.

Also they decreased PPGs of league's MVP by 6 points and field goal percentage by 6% . They were so damn physical that Giannis shoot whooping 27% FTs worst than he did in regular season and in same time he fouled and turned a ball over more than he was doing for whole season.

Three factors are keys:
1) overall team defense of Raptors was ridiculous through whole playoffs. They were so damn prepared for every player and every play
2) individual talent for defense. 3 out of 5 starters were once or more all nba defensive team members. 2 of starters have 3 DPOY award combined.
3). Marc Gasol. If he moved his a** from Memphis earlier he could have had career like Pau who is first ballot hall of famer who literally won everything but olympic gold in basketball. Despite being older, Marc is huge body and well established player that brings physicality that bothered all Cs , even ones who like to bang like Cousins. 7 footer standing at 260 pounds and 7'4 wingspan with that BBIQ will always borther defenders, especially if he is as crafty as Marc is.



this is 1,38 min long video from game one and shows how much stronger Gasol is than Embiid. Embiid simply could not get deeper post up situations because Gasol was able to just push him away.

I don't mind entertaining talks about trades of every player. But Magic really don't have problem with C position as it is right now. Bamba and Birch are off bench as they should be , Bamba is yet to prove he is NBA player, Birch does not have skillset for starter, he is best suited as bench spark like Holmes ,Biyombo, undersized yet energetic C.

Real issue is guard situation in contrast of PF situation where you have Evan , Ross and DJ on one side , where Ross plays SF anyway to finish games, and on other you have Okeke, Gordon, Aminu, Isaac, Iwundu all fighting for 48 mpg at PF and whatever is left to play at SF when Ross and Evan are not on the floor together.
Given that normal rotation in basketball is 9 men , Magic rotation will look something like this

DJ- Evan-- Gordon- Isaac- Vuc
Fultz/ MCW/ ---Ross--- Aminu - Bamba or Birch

No matter how you turn, Fultz // MCw and Bamba/Birch will find themselfs out of rotation soon. Ofc somebody will get hurt and things always change, but even if Okeke is healthy, he would not be in playing rotation no matter what. Simply not enough time to play them all.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#103 » by drsd » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:07 am

pepe1991 wrote:... how much stronger Gasol is ....



I am amazed that this guy developed into a elite defender that is a potential Hall of Famer:

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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#104 » by pepe1991 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:29 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:... how much stronger Gasol is ....



I am amazed that this guy developed into a elite defender that is a potential Hall of Famer:

Image


:lol:

both Gasol bros have incredible talent. Pau's 2015 Eurobasket performance is one of most impressive things i have seen in tournament type competition. Guy against France had 40 points,11 rebounds, 3 blocks. At age of 35. Against Gobert :lol:
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#105 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:46 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:... how much stronger Gasol is ....



I am amazed that this guy developed into a elite defender that is a potential Hall of Famer:

Image




both Gasol bros have incredible talent. Pau's 2015 Eurobasket performance is one of most impressive things i have seen in tournament type competition. Guy against France had 40 points,11 rebounds, 3 blocks. At age of 35. Against Gobert
Vucevic was non existent against Gobert.

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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#106 » by drsd » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:34 pm

pepe1991 wrote:both Gasol bros have incredible talent. Pau's 2015 Eurobasket performance is one of most impressive things i have seen in tournament type competition. Guy against France had 40 points,11 rebounds, 3 blocks. At age of 35. Against Gobert


Pau is a lock for the Hall of Fame on his NBA resume alone. Marc will need his two Olympic silver medals, and his Spanish League efforts for considerations beyond his NBA work. But as it is not the NBA-Hall of Fame, I think both Gasol brothers get tabbed for inclusion.

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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#107 » by pepe1991 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:40 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:

I am amazed that this guy developed into a elite defender that is a potential Hall of Famer:

Image




both Gasol bros have incredible talent. Pau's 2015 Eurobasket performance is one of most impressive things i have seen in tournament type competition. Guy against France had 40 points,11 rebounds, 3 blocks. At age of 35. Against Gobert
Vucevic was non existent against Gobert.

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for national team or?

He averaged through two games in NBA this year 17 points ,13 rebounds and 4 assists, and had positive plus minus against Gobert.
Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#108 » by drsd » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?


..
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#109 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:08 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:


both Gasol bros have incredible talent. Pau's 2015 Eurobasket performance is one of most impressive things i have seen in tournament type competition. Guy against France had 40 points,11 rebounds, 3 blocks. At age of 35. Against Gobert
Vucevic was non existent against Gobert.

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for national team or?

He averaged through two games in NBA this year 17 points ,13 rebounds and 4 assists, and had positive plus minus against Gobert.
Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


I was talking about the other day against the National team.

Vucevic still puts up raw stats when he plays against the bigger players who give him a hard time, because of really high usage. I remember one game against Brooke Lopez last year, it was apparent Lopez wasn't going to give him anything inside but Vuc kept trying, even after having his shot blocked 5 times.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#110 » by pepe1991 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:36 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?


..


Nop, but how many palyers are? I would say non?
I mean you sign exstension like that when you already in your late 20s or early 30s, even if everything goes right, last years of your contract will be pretty bad. I really don't like supermax. It's just too much for salary cap.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#111 » by pepe1991 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:45 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Vucevic was non existent against Gobert.

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for national team or?

He averaged through two games in NBA this year 17 points ,13 rebounds and 4 assists, and had positive plus minus against Gobert.
Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


I was talking about the other day against the National team.

Vucevic still puts up raw stats when he plays against the bigger players who give him a hard time, because of really high usage. I remember one game against Brooke Lopez last year. It was apparent Lopez wasn't going to give him anything inside but Vuc kept trying, even after having his shot blocked 5 times.


I saw highlights from that game, France is simply way more better team in general.
As for Vučević and his matchups, he struggled the most vs Hornets last year .
His best games were against Lakers . In two games they played ,he averaged 33,6 ppg ,14 rpg and 3,5 assists while having 68% TS :lol: :

He had great numbers vs Raptors in regular season ( 20 ppg, 15,5 rpg) but if i'm not wrong, Raptors rested half of a players against Magic- twice.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#112 » by tiderulz » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:45 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?


..

Utah would be insane to sign him to that much money. He isnt worth that.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#113 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:56 pm

It's common knowledge that Vuc has problems with bigger guys and punishes smaller ones. It's hard to have Vuc fans admit he has any faults.

They should try to diversify the offense, instead of trying the same thing every game. I'm glad AG is working on his post game so they can run the offense through him at times.



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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#114 » by SOUL » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:37 pm

Keep this thread about Bamba and not about Vuc. It'll get locked like the Markelle thread because people can't stop taking over threads with debates about AG or Vuc apparently.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#115 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:52 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:Its one thing to point out flaws another to blindly hate whichis what I reference. You know better than to try and downplay it as mere criticisms.

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It's true. People still talking about trading Vuc in this very thread. There's nothing short of winning a championship that he could do that would please some here.


Showing up in a playoff series would be a good start.

You mean the ONE playoff series we've been in, where he was the main cog and faced multiple double and triple teams? Most players in that scenario would given a little longer leash to adjust and respond. Not Vooch though, people act like this is a reoccurring issue.

EDIT: My bad I didnt see the request from Soul to stop talking about Vooch.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#116 » by NBlue » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:01 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?

..



Where is this coming from? That would appear to be certifiably insane.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#117 » by drsd » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:16 pm

NBlue wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gobert's lenght and instics are indeed special , comes as no suprise fact that guy is back to back DPOY and runaway favorite to win it again this year. He should probably already have 3 DPOYs in a row.


Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?

..



Where is this coming from? That would appear to be certifiably insane.


Those numbers are what his super-max deal will pay him. It is what 35% of a salary cap looks like.

..
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#118 » by NBlue » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:47 pm

drsd wrote:
NBlue wrote:
drsd wrote:
Gobert looks to sign an extension that looks like this:
2022-2023 $44,710,092
2023-2024 $48,286,899
2024-2025 $52,149,851
2025-2026 $56,321,839
2026-2027 $60,827,586

That is $262,296,267 over five years. ($52,459,253.40 average). Heck I would live in Utah for that kind of coin!

My question to you: is Gobert special enough to pay him 60M in 2026/27 as a 33 year old?

..



Where is this coming from? That would appear to be certifiably insane.


Those numbers are what his super-max deal will pay him. It is what 35% of a salary cap looks like.

..


And there is some indication that the Jazz will pay Gobert a supermax? I mean he is a very good player, of course, but just because he is eligible for a supermax doen't mean he is going to sign one. I'm not aware of any indication that the Jazz or anyone else will compensate Gobert at that level.
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#119 » by ezzzp » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:47 am

basketballRob wrote:It's common knowledge that Vuc has problems with bigger guys and punishes smaller ones. It's hard to have Vuc fans admit he has any faults.


Vucevic did not have problems against most bigger centers:

Vucevic Head to Head

* Minutes are for when both players are on floor together
* PPG and TS% are only for plays defended by the Head-to-Head Player, not the entire game.


J Nurkic (7' 275lb): 2g (27.1 mpg) / 20.0 PPG on .744 TS%
R Lopez (7' 275lb): 4g (16.7 mpg) / 13.0 PPG on .610 TS%
B Lopez (7' 270lb): 3g (19.5 mpg) / 17.3 PPG on .575 TS%
D Howard (6'11 265lb): 2g (20.9 mpg) / 22.5 PPG on .579 TS%
M Gasol (7'1" 255lb): 2g (21.6 mpg) / 13.5 PPG on .590 TS%
J Embiid (7' 250lb): 3g (23.7 mpg) / 14.0 PPG on .629 TS%
K Towns (7' 250lb) 2g (26.5 mpg) / 19.5 PPG on .714 TS%
M Turner (6'11" 250lb): 4g (18.3 mpg) / 18.3 PPG on .551 TS%
A Baynes (6'10" 260lb): 1 g (13.8 mpg) / 14.0 PPG on .636TS%
A Horford (6'10" 245lb): 2 g (27.9 mpg) / 16.0 PPG on .593 TS%

Even on the bigger players he struggled to score with efficiency on, he still dropped points on them. Hassan Whiteside was the only guy he kind of struggled with.

Drummond (6'11 275lb): 4g (29.9 mpg) / 15.0 PPG on .523 TS%
S Adams (7' 265lb): 1g (27.9 mpg) / 17.0 PPG on .472 TS%
H Whiteside (7' 265lb): 4g (18.7 mpg) / 8.3 PPG on .389 TS%
R Gobert (7'1" 245lb): 2 g (28.4 mpg) / 14.5 PPG on .487 TS%
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Re: Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2 

Post#120 » by drsd » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:05 am

ezzzp wrote:Nah, Vucevic did not have any problems against most bigger centers



Vučević was Orlando's best offensive player AND Orlando's best defensive player, statistically.

For these facts to be true, he was efficient and stable game-in-and-out.

I accept that for some fans here Vučević fails the eye test. But he does not fail the statistical tests. And last year, Vučević's stats led to wins. Winning is the only statistics that matters, after all.


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