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Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run

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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#101 » by OrlChamps2030 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:47 am

MagicMatic wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.


Gordon’s issue has never been failing to live up to some kind of fan based expectations. It has everything to do with his fit and role on this roster.


True. There’s some alternate universe out there where Trae Young and Aaron Gordon are looking like Nash/Marion 2.0. :banghead:
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#102 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:55 am

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.


Gordon’s issue has never been failing to live up to some kind of fan based expectations. It has everything to do with his fit and role on this roster.


True. There’s some alternate universe out there where Trae Young and Aaron Gordon are looking like Nash/Marion 2.0. :banghead:
AG won't hit his prime for a couple more years. Nash didn't hit double digit points until he was 26.

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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#103 » by Rainwater » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:55 am

j-ragg wrote:Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.


I think Ross was the Magic's second best player
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#104 » by Rainwater » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:59 am

basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.
It's still too early to tell. At 23 he's better than Tobias Harris was and he's a borderline star. He didn't really breakout until he was 25.

If we can get a little better than Harris, that should be a multi time allstar.

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AG lacks many of the skills Harris has
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#105 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:11 am

basketballRob wrote:AG won't hit his prime for a couple more years. Nash didn't hit double digit points until he was 26.


Unfortunately that’s when AG hits unrestricted free agency

That’s going to be a tough decision for the FO starting next summer through to the following trade deadline.

Trade him at peak trade value or let it ride and go into final offseason knowing trade return drops dramatically with teams only able to rent him for one year/one playoff run. Or not trading him and risk losing him for nothing.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#106 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:11 am

Rainwater wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.
It's still too early to tell. At 23 he's better than Tobias Harris was and he's a borderline star. He didn't really breakout until he was 25.

If we can get a little better than Harris, that should be a multi time allstar.

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AG lacks many of the skills Harris has
AG has athletic ability, defense, and statistically you could argue at the same age he was better than Harris.

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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#107 » by fendilim » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:18 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
basketballRob wrote:It's still too early to tell. At 23 he's better than Tobias Harris was and he's a borderline star. He didn't really breakout until he was 25.

If we can get a little better than Harris, that should be a multi time allstar.

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AG lacks many of the skills Harris has
AG has athletic ability, defense, and statistically you could argue at the same age he was better than Harris.

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I find Harris as a 23year old as a rather very interesting year for him to compare. He played half of the season for Skiles, who we all know had a long history with Tobias. Never the less, https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Tobias+Harris&player_id2_select=Tobias+Harris&player_id2=harrito02&y2=2016

Gordon and Harris had almost the same raw statistical numbers with Gordon having more apg, ppg, rpg and more blocks. However, Harris was better in the advanced stats when he was more efficient (.560>.538 TS%), has higher PER, WS% in less usage.

I mention the Skiles part above because Skiles mostly used Harris as a 3 and D guy as evident in his kind of attempts per game evident in the chart below, similar to how Clifford is using Gordon now.

Nevertheless, what really separates them is their shot making ability.
Image
https://i.imgur.com/Pz6bxbZ.jpg

Gordon is not close to Harris offensively. While Gordon is a better defender than Harris.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#108 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:02 pm

fendilim wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
AG lacks many of the skills Harris has
AG has athletic ability, defense, and statistically you could argue at the same age he was better than Harris.

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I find Harris as a 23year old as a rather very interesting year for him to compare. He played half of the season for Skiles, who we all know had a long history with Tobias. Never the less, https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Tobias+Harris&player_id2_select=Tobias+Harris&player_id2=harrito02&y2=2016

Gordon and Harris had almost the same raw statistical numbers with Gordon having more apg, ppg, rpg and more blocks. However, Harris was better in the advanced stats when he was more efficient (.560>.538 TS%), has higher PER, WS% in less usage.

I mention the Skiles part above because Skiles mostly used Harris as a 3 and D guy as evident in his kind of attempts per game evident in the chart below, similar to how Clifford is using Gordon now.

Nevertheless, what really separates them is their shot making ability.
Image
https://i.imgur.com/Pz6bxbZ.jpg

Gordon is not close to Harris offensively. While Gordon is a better defender than Harris.


AG had more points, rebounds, and assists. They roughly had the same usage and MPG.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#109 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:23 pm

basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote: Nevertheless, what really separates them is their shot making ability.

Gordon is not close to Harris offensively. While Gordon is a better defender than Harris.


AG had more points, rebounds, and assists. They roughly had the same usage and MPG.


Gordon had a slightly higher PPG (16.0 vs 14.7) because he had a slightly higher USG rate (21.8 vs 19.3) and took more FGA's (1046 vs 889). Harris was more efficient though .560 TS% vs .538 TS%.

Fendilim is correct that Harris was a more effective on-ball scorer. The longer AG held the ball, the less effective he got.

If you look at what the league context was - in order to see how their eFG%'s related to the NBA league average in those seasons - you can see another layer of effectiveness for the context (season) they were playing in:

...In 15-16 (when Harris was 23) the NBA average eFG% was 50.2
...In 18-19 (when Gordon was 23) the NBA average eFG% was 52.4

Touch <2 seconds:
Gordon was +3.9 above NBA average
Harris was +10.6 above NBA average

Touch 2-6 seconds:
Gordon was -6.6 below NBA average
Harris was -2.4 below NBA average

Touch +6 seconds:
Gordon was -12.4 below NBA average
Harris was +3.1 above NBA average

One key difference was the amount of pull-up 3PA's that Aaron Gordon took (93 at .323 3P%) compared to Harris (13 at .231 3P%). Gordon's volume in that shot could be seen either as a positive or a negative. On the one hand, taking Pull-Up 3's at a poor percentage is poor shot selection. On the other hand, he did improve that shot from the prior season were he took 109 Pull Up 3's and shot them at an abysmal .219 3P%.

In my opinion, two big areas that could lead to Gordon taking a nice jump next season are if he either dramatically reduces the volume or improves on those Pull-Up 3's and those low value mid range FGA's. Right now they're an inefficiency in his game and because they are high volume, they're a key inefficiency in the Magic's offense.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#110 » by fendilim » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:17 am

basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:
basketballRob wrote:AG has athletic ability, defense, and statistically you could argue at the same age he was better than Harris.

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I find Harris as a 23year old as a rather very interesting year for him to compare. He played half of the season for Skiles, who we all know had a long history with Tobias. Never the less, https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Tobias+Harris&player_id2_select=Tobias+Harris&player_id2=harrito02&y2=2016

Gordon and Harris had almost the same raw statistical numbers with Gordon having more apg, ppg, rpg and more blocks. However, Harris was better in the advanced stats when he was more efficient (.560>.538 TS%), has higher PER, WS% in less usage.

I mention the Skiles part above because Skiles mostly used Harris as a 3 and D guy as evident in his kind of attempts per game evident in the chart below, similar to how Clifford is using Gordon now.

Nevertheless, what really separates them is their shot making ability.
Image
https://i.imgur.com/Pz6bxbZ.jpg

Gordon is not close to Harris offensively. While Gordon is a better defender than Harris.


AG had more points, rebounds, and assists. They roughly had the same usage and MPG.

Yeah, thanks for repeating. :banghead:
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#111 » by basketballRob » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:59 am

fendilim wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:I find Harris as a 23year old as a rather very interesting year for him to compare. He played half of the season for Skiles, who we all know had a long history with Tobias. Never the less, https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Tobias+Harris&player_id2_select=Tobias+Harris&player_id2=harrito02&y2=2016

Gordon and Harris had almost the same raw statistical numbers with Gordon having more apg, ppg, rpg and more blocks. However, Harris was better in the advanced stats when he was more efficient (.560>.538 TS%), has higher PER, WS% in less usage.

I mention the Skiles part above because Skiles mostly used Harris as a 3 and D guy as evident in his kind of attempts per game evident in the chart below, similar to how Clifford is using Gordon now.

Nevertheless, what really separates them is their shot making ability.
Image
https://i.imgur.com/Pz6bxbZ.jpg

Gordon is not close to Harris offensively. While Gordon is a better defender than Harris.


AG had more points, rebounds, and assists. They roughly had the same usage and MPG.

Yeah, thanks for repeating. :banghead:
They are so close that you could make either appear to be the better player by using different stats.



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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#112 » by spinedoc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:34 am

A couple of thoughts I have from this thread. First, we shouldn't be upset that our pf is actually working on post moves. I realize the game has changed a lot, but please humor this old guy. Its never a bad thing that basketball players are working on basketball skills. Let's just leave that one be for goodness sake. Second, Tobias is and was better than Gordon, I don't need to see numbers for that. The problem I have is I didn't think Tobias was a good fit on our team then either, and think he got severely over paid by Philly. I worry we'll do the same with Gordon. It's a moot argument for me. Tobias struggled defending the 3, but could play there offensively. Gordon can defend the 3, but not carry it offensively, and both are insufficient at pf thus far. Its a distinction without a difference.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#113 » by ezzzp » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:55 am

basketballRob wrote:They are so close that you could make either appear to be the better player by using different stats.


what? the stats are all saying Tobias was a better offensive player...its not even that close on that end

the only thing that makes it arguable is the defensive end of the equation
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#114 » by JF5 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:40 am

Reading this thread it seems people are still trying to delude themselves of AG's lack of offensive skill. Statistically and Eye test wise he's not really a good offensive player and doesn't really do much that would say otherwise.

We've had conversations about Gordon vs. Oladipo and Harris offensive offensive trajectory during their times here and how they all played around the same ages (24 and below) and you're essentially comparing completely different players.

Gordon will never be a ball dominate somewhat efficient volume scorer that his fans hoped he's he'd be. Hell he isn't even close to being an efficient scorer/shooter now with all the decent amount of shots he's been getting for the last 3 years. At this point its obvious its not in his game also looking at his skill-set not really expanding outside of the marginally better 3 point shot and the occasional post shot. He's a solid role player with a potential to be a really damn good one. If he becomes a guy who could shoot the 3 ball at a 35-37 percent rate while providing great defense and general all around play without taking too many bad shots he'll be fine. there is nothing wrong with that at all.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#115 » by fendilim » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:44 am

basketballRob wrote:
fendilim wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
AG had more points, rebounds, and assists. They roughly had the same usage and MPG.

Yeah, thanks for repeating. :banghead:
They are so close that you could make either appear to be the better player by using different stats.



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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#116 » by Hogified05 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:58 am

Man he was on a podcast with a couple from Slam, it was on spotifiy. What a waste of my time to listen to. Guy starts talking to him about next year's slam dunk contest and AG is about to say some cool stuff and cuts him off and starts talking about shoes or something. Then it's painfully obvious neither one has watched a second of Orlando basketball, which I am use to from national talking heads, but still. The chick goes "Thats why I like you, you change momentum". I said what?!

It was just a painfully dull interview with no substance and it was almost awkward at moments. How do some of these people get these jobs? Seriously. There is a lack of talent in the entertainment world because anybody can do it now a days.
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#117 » by j-ragg » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:37 pm

Hogified05 wrote:Man he was on a podcast with a couple from Slam, it was on spotifiy. What a waste of my time to listen to. Guy starts talking to him about next year's slam dunk contest and AG is about to say some cool stuff and cuts him off and starts talking about shoes or something. Then it's painfully obvious neither one has watched a second of Orlando basketball, which I am use to from national talking heads, but still. The chick goes "Thats why I like you, you change momentum". I said what?!

It was just a painfully dull interview with no substance and it was almost awkward at moments. How do some of these people get these jobs? Seriously. There is a lack of talent in the entertainment world because anybody can do it now a days.

Haha I felt the same way while listening. I can’t even remember the questions because they were pretty pointless. I know I’m biased but they could’ve talked about the Magic a little bit :dontknow:

They were talking about guys in movies and AG thanked Kyrie for getting him to be in Uncle Drew and the dude was like “oh yaaaaa I forgot you were in that movie!” like damn man do you google the people you’re gonna interview to find out a little about them first?
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#118 » by ezzzp » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:49 pm

Aaron Gordon on Slam's The Kaz and Vic show

https://player.fm/series/the-kaz-vic-show/episode-9-more-than-a-hooper-ft-aaron-gordon

AG is in NYC...was at NBPA facility working out

AG starts with "NY is love" so Kaz asks him if he's in NYC a lot and AG says "anytime I can be, I have a great time, there's a lot to do" ...then Kaz and Vic basically say Orlando is boring but AG says next time they're in town to come to his home and he'll keep it entertaining.

...talked about Fortnight event...said Mario Hezonja was there

...talked about the dunk contest and HS kid who did AG all-star dunk but in game

...talk about the Magic at 10:34...AG said its the first year Orlando has had continuity since Dwight; and that the Magic have finally stopped moving parts around and will finally have a chance to develop some chemistry

...talked about how he is now making music...and that he is in the process of starting an "entertainment agency," involving film and music industry. He said he already did Uncle Drew, so he has one under his belt. Thanked Kyrie Irving for the opportunity and how that experience is what got him interested in the film industry.

...talked about STEM program in Orlando

...talked about player empowerment era: "you got to give players the freedom to move where they want to move, to do what they want to do with their life, at the end of the day whatever is going to make them happiest...if they're not happy they're not going to play good and that's going to be bad for the league"

...when asked about Clippers vs Lakers, he said he doesn't give a damn about any other team except the Orlando Magic

...he said he can work on his game night in and night out, but if they're not winning it doesn't matter...says its all about contributing to a winning team as that is way more valuable than a guy dropping 25 a game but losing

...talked about taking a game from the NBA champs...says they got whooped but that they won one game and were 1 possession away from winning game 3.

...AG says he would love to win DPOY as that would contribute to winning...but says that award requires a lot "politicking"

...talks about music he's listening to

...talk about Zion...says he's athletic phenom but his jumper is key because you can't dunk for your whole career

...Vic talks about how she saw AG working out at NBPA gym and that he was making his 3's and his turnaround mid ranger's

...says offseason great day starts with gym, play chess, watch a movie, write music, go back to gym, go to music studio, go out at night

...talk Slam covers

...talk Magic outlook at 34:00...thinks they'll have a much more solid regular season, now have a way of playing that's going to allow them to win more and win in the playoffs...Kaz says Magic are tough team that don't roll over to anyone, not a lot of finesse but grind out team ball - AG agrees they don't care about who they play, will shoot the right shots and be in the right positions on defense.

...talk about what it feels like to dunk...says people don't jump in front of him that much anymore since the dunk contest, that a lot of defenders concede dunk once he's got line set
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#119 » by NotACat » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:03 pm

ezzzp wrote:]
...he said he can work on his game night in and night out, but if they're not winning it doesn't matter...says its all about contributing to a winning team as that is way more valuable than a guy dropping 25 a game but losing
]

:D
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Re: Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run 

Post#120 » by ezzzp » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 pm

NotACat wrote:
ezzzp wrote:]
...he said he can work on his game night in and night out, but if they're not winning it doesn't matter...says its all about contributing to a winning team as that is way more valuable than a guy dropping 25 a game but losing
]

:D


Sounds good...as I've been saying for a long time - on top of the huge benefits to player development, this is another huge reason why it was vital for the Magic to bring back Vuc/Ross in order to have best shot at staying competitive.

Hearing him talk about NY love, Kyrie, and that he's starting an entertainment agency...can't read too much into it but can't ignore it either. The Magic have to maintain that winning context to have any shot at retaining AG for a 3d contract; or not giving him any reason to force his way out early.

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