Interview: Aaron Gordon keeps grinding, looks to build on Magic’s run

[MagicStarwipe]

Funny you say this because this is a discussion forum.

A discussion forum means you can tell me what my beliefs are?

Its discussing your beliefs.

Right, but that's not what Im talking about. People here literally tell you what your beliefs are and then when you say that is not my belief, they ignore you and continue to run with it.

[j-ragg]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

[fendilim]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

[j-ragg]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.

I don’t think he’s a star. Nor do I think he’s on his way to stardom.

At the same time, he’s a very good role player for us and would be even better with a playmaker due to some of his limited offense.

I think most Gordon homers like myself agree, but some keep pushing that we all want him to have 30% usage. Not the case for me at least.

[MagicStarwipe]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.

I don’t think he’s a star. Nor do I think he’s on his way to stardom.

At the same time, he’s a very good role player for us and would be even better with a playmaker due to some of his limited offense.

I think most Gordon homers like myself agree, but some keep pushing that we all want him to have 30% usage. Not the case for me at least.

Hence my comments above. Maybe we can dig up some more quotes from 2016.

[j-ragg]

We drafted Oladipo, he’s the next Wade.

We drafted Gordon, the next Blake Griffin.

We drafted Payton, the next Wall.

We drafted Hezonja, a more athletic Klay Thompson.

We drafted Isaac, the next KD.

We drafted Bamba, Gobert with a 3 point shot.

We are all guilty of homer thoughts with new, young players. If/when they fall short, we should adjust expectations. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with hoping for stardom from a top pick (until they start showing they aren’t on that trajectory).

Either way it’s the off-season and none of this matters. Only a month till the World Cup!

[j-ragg]

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.

I don’t think he’s a star. Nor do I think he’s on his way to stardom.

At the same time, he’s a very good role player for us and would be even better with a playmaker due to some of his limited offense.

I think most Gordon homers like myself agree, but some keep pushing that we all want him to have 30% usage. Not the case for me at least.

Hence my comments above. Maybe we can dig up some more quotes from 2016.

I get what you’re saying but pls don’t lol. We have all said dumb **** on here, a hindsight battle won’t help. Plus I think I’m the one who started the whole “Hezonja plays like a more athletic Klay” stupid first summer league game

[ezzzp]

I think part of this is because some posters feel offended when they are being presented facts and statistics contrary to their beliefs.

The more annoying thing is people thinking they can tell you what your beliefs are.

Actually, you inserted yourself in this conversation and immediately started attacking people calling them over-reactors (post #33) and whiners (post #55) for having an interesting discussion amongst themselves about how they feel Aaron Gordon should adjust his game for efficiency and increased development. How about some self-awareness and a long look in the mirror to see who is the one trying to tell people what they can or can't think and discuss?

[MagicStarwipe]

This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.

I don’t think he’s a star. Nor do I think he’s on his way to stardom.

At the same time, he’s a very good role player for us and would be even better with a playmaker due to some of his limited offense.

I think most Gordon homers like myself agree, but some keep pushing that we all want him to have 30% usage. Not the case for me at least.

Hence my comments above. Maybe we can dig up some more quotes from 2016.

I get what you’re saying but pls don’t lol. We have all said dumb **** on here, a hindsight battle won’t help. Plus I think I’m the one who started the whole “Hezonja plays like a more athletic Klay” stupid first summer league game

No, hindsight battles is what I'm against is what I'm saying.

[MagicStarwipe]

I think part of this is because some posters feel offended when they are being presented facts and statistics contrary to their beliefs.

The more annoying thing is people thinking they can tell you what your beliefs are.

Actually, you inserted yourself in this conversation and immediately started attacking people calling them over-reactors (post #33) and whiners (post #55) for having an interesting discussion amongst themselves about how they feel Aaron Gordon should adjust his game for efficiency and increased development. How about some self-awareness and a long look in the mirror to see who is the one trying to tell people what they can or can't think and discuss?

Yes, I inserted myself in an open message board (LOL) because I'm disappointed and fed up with what this forum has become. If you want to call what was happening an interesting discussion then have a blast. And you interpret me saying that people here try to tell others what their beliefs are as me saying people are telling others what they can or can't think and discuss? Those are not even close to being the same thing so know idea where you are going with that one. I'll get some self awareness but you have to promise to get some reading comprehension skills. I'll let you get the last word. Have a blast.

[ezzzp]

The more annoying thing is people thinking they can tell you what your beliefs are.

Actually, you inserted yourself in this conversation and immediately started attacking people calling them over-reactors (post #33) and whiners (post #55) for having an interesting discussion amongst themselves about how they feel Aaron Gordon should adjust his game for efficiency and increased development. How about some self-awareness and a long look in the mirror to see who is the one trying to tell people what they can or can't think and discuss?

Yes, I inserted myself in an open message board (LOL) because I'm disappointed and fed up with what this forum has become. If you want to call what was happening an interesting discussion then have a blast. And you interpret me saying that people here try to tell others what their beliefs are as me saying people are telling others what they can or can't think and discuss? Those are not even close to being the same thing so know idea where you are going with that one. I'll get some self awareness but you have to promise to get some reading comprehension skills. I'll let you get the last word. Have a blast.

Key word is open...here you are yet again trying to demean and trivialize others conversations and opinions...and then making personal attacks on top of that.

[basketballRob]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

It's still too early to tell. At 23 he's better than Tobias Harris was and he's a borderline star. He didn't really breakout until he was 25.

If we can get a little better than Harris, that should be a multi time allstar.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

We drafted Oladipo, he’s the next Wade.

We drafted Gordon, the next Blake Griffin.

We drafted Payton, the next Wall.

We drafted Hezonja, a more athletic Klay Thompson.

We drafted Isaac, the next KD.

We drafted Bamba, Gobert with a 3 point shot.

We are all guilty of homer thoughts with new, young players. If/when they fall short, we should adjust expectations. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with hoping for stardom from a top pick (until they start showing they aren’t on that trajectory).

Either way it’s the off-season and none of this matters. Only a month till the World Cup!

I remember the same conversations about Oladipo that we're having about AG now.

AG was just as good or better than Dipo at 23, so I wouldn't write off AG yet.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[j-ragg]

We drafted Oladipo, he’s the next Wade.

We drafted Gordon, the next Blake Griffin.

We drafted Payton, the next Wall.

We drafted Hezonja, a more athletic Klay Thompson.

We drafted Isaac, the next KD.

We drafted Bamba, Gobert with a 3 point shot.

We are all guilty of homer thoughts with new, young players. If/when they fall short, we should adjust expectations. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with hoping for stardom from a top pick (until they start showing they aren’t on that trajectory).

Either way it’s the off-season and none of this matters. Only a month till the World Cup!

I remember the same conversations about Oladipo that we're having about AG now.

AG was just as good or better than Dipo at 23, so I wouldn't write off AG yet.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I hope that happens but that’s another outlier and not the norm.

[Xatticus]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Not saying he isn't useful. I'm saying is putting too much hope on him is setting yourself to disappointment. he isn't a star, and not progressing like one. Whether you believe it or not, is up to you. But numbers do suggest the same observation that he is more of a role player at this point.

This is where I think the biggest disconnect is.

I don’t think he’s a star. Nor do I think he’s on his way to stardom.

At the same time, he’s a very good role player for us and would be even better with a playmaker due to some of his limited offense.

I think most Gordon homers like myself agree, but some keep pushing that we all want him to have 30% usage. Not the case for me at least.

I honestly haven't seen anyone argue as much. His detractors keep contriving this nonsensical argument.

[Xatticus]

I think part of this is because some posters feel offended when they are being presented facts and statistics contrary to their beliefs.

The more annoying thing is people thinking they can tell you what your beliefs are.

But Payton fans being wrong all along is something factual.
He indeed hurt Magic defense and did not help offense.
He indeed never improved as shooter.
His efficiency ( eFG%) stayed pathetic after 5 years.
He is career liability on offense and defense.

At age of 25 only contract he could get was 1 year guaranteed money ( with second year only $1m guaranteed) from team projected to have the worst record in nba.
Pelicans are third team in 3 years that wanted no part of him going forward.

So maybe "negative Nancy " type posters were actually objective and on point all along, and his fanboys were simply wrong?
As i said, it's not even debatable, posters here who had " Payton is championship point guard" threads and who claimed he is better than Tony Parker at 22 were simply - flat out wrong.

Unlike case with Elfrid Payton, virtually nobody ever claimed that Gordon sucks. But that he will, or will not be star player.

Ahh... here we are again. I keep trying to let this die. Almost everything stated here is incorrect.

Payton's eFG% climbed every season he was in Orlando:

14/15: .433
15/16: .456
16/17: .493
17/18: .547 ...so pathetic

That's the damnedest example of stagnation that I've ever seen.

The whole Parker/Payton argument was created by YOU. Even as Payton was clearly demonstrating improvement as a 3-point shooter (37% in his final season with Orlando), you were arguing that he still couldn't be a good offensive player because he didn't take enough of them. In the very same thread, you listed a number of examples of elite point guards and Tony Parker was among them. This despite the fact that Tony Parker was rather notorious for eliminating the 3-point shot from his offensive game. It was a hypocritical argument and you got called on it. You have since morphed it into 'a horde of Payton fanboys said Payton was better than Tony Parker!'

You just can't seem to help yourself. You keep bringing this up at every opportunity. What does any of this have to do with Aaron Gordon?

[ezzzp]

But Payton fans being wrong all along is something factual.
He indeed hurt Magic defense and did not help offense.
He indeed never improved as shooter.
His efficiency ( eFG%) stayed pathetic after 5 years.
He is career liability on offense and defense.

At age of 25 only contract he could get was 1 year guaranteed money ( with second year only $1m guaranteed) from team projected to have the worst record in nba.
Pelicans are third team in 3 years that wanted no part of him going forward.

So maybe "negative Nancy " type posters were actually objective and on point all along, and his fanboys were simply wrong?
As i said, it's not even debatable, posters here who had " Payton is championship point guard" threads and who claimed he is better than Tony Parker at 22 were simply - flat out wrong.

Unlike case with Elfrid Payton, virtually nobody ever claimed that Gordon sucks. But that he will, or will not be star player.

Ahh... here we are again. I keep trying to let this die. Almost everything stated here is incorrect.

Payton's eFG% climbed every season he was in Orlando:

14/15: .433
15/16: .456
16/17: .493
17/18: .547 ...so pathetic

That's the damnedest example of stagnation that I've ever seen.

The whole Parker/Payton argument was created by YOU. Even as Payton was clearly demonstrating improvement as a 3-point shooter (37% in his final season with Orlando), you were arguing that he still couldn't be a good offensive player because he didn't take enough of them. In the very same thread, you listed a number of examples of elite point guards and Tony Parker was among them. This despite the fact that Tony Parker was rather notorious for eliminating the 3-point shot from his offensive game. It was a hypocritical argument and you got called on it. You have since morphed it into 'a horde of Payton fanboys said Payton was better than Tony Parker!'

You just can't seem to help yourself. You keep bringing this up at every opportunity. What does any of this have to do with Aaron Gordon?

...that Payton 17-18 .547 eFG% is only for half the season, his full season eFG% (ORL/PHO) was .516

Here are the NBA's League Avg eFG%'s compared to Payton's eFG% + I threw in some Gordon eFG% to keep it relevant:

Season:NBA vs Payton vs Gordon
14/15: .496 vs .433 vs .478
15/16: .502 vs .456 vs .509
16/17: .514 vs .493 vs .499
17/18: .521 vs .516 vs .500
18-19: .524 vs .475 vs .507

While EP has had some gradual improvement in eFG%, its all been way below the league average waterline...so yea, its been pretty pathetic. AG's isn't nearly as bad, but still has a ways to go to get to average efficiency.

TS% gives insight to his overall "shooting" as it incorporates free throws...which of course is a critical factor for a player who is as ball dominant as EP (or wants to be- like Gordon). Here are the NBA's League Average TS%'s compared to Elfrid Payton and AG's TS%...

Season: NBA vs Payton vs Gordon
14-15: .534 vs .456 vs .517
15-16: .541 vs .478 vs .531
16-17: .552 vs .520 vs .530
17-18: .556 vs .538 vs .530
18-19: .560 vs .502 vs .538

...again some gradual improvement in TS% but its still well below average.

One thing to note is that 42% of Payton's FGA's have come at the rim and 68% inside of 10'. So that poor efficiency is even uglier than it looks.

....also, that EP 37% 3PT percentage was only for 67 total 3PA's, of which 42 of them were totally undefended by the opposing team. That percentage free fell after the trade, and last season with NOLA he took 105 3PA and again shot a poor .314 3P%.

[MagicMatic]

Gordon doesn’t have to be a go-to player to be a good player. I get that he hasn’t developed in the way some here would like, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t useful. He’s worth his contract and is our 2nd best player by a wide margin.

I think his fit on the team sort of exacerbates the negative feelings on here because of what the team needs are, so people take it out on our highest draft pick still on the team, fair or not.

Gordon’s issue has never been failing to live up to some kind of fan based expectations. It has everything to do with his fit and role on this roster.

[pepe1991]

The more annoying thing is people thinking they can tell you what your beliefs are.

But Payton fans being wrong all along is something factual.
He indeed hurt Magic defense and did not help offense.
He indeed never improved as shooter.
His efficiency ( eFG%) stayed pathetic after 5 years.
He is career liability on offense and defense.

At age of 25 only contract he could get was 1 year guaranteed money ( with second year only $1m guaranteed) from team projected to have the worst record in nba.
Pelicans are third team in 3 years that wanted no part of him going forward.

So maybe "negative Nancy " type posters were actually objective and on point all along, and his fanboys were simply wrong?
As i said, it's not even debatable, posters here who had " Payton is championship point guard" threads and who claimed he is better than Tony Parker at 22 were simply - flat out wrong.

Unlike case with Elfrid Payton, virtually nobody ever claimed that Gordon sucks. But that he will, or will not be star player.

Ahh... here we are again. I keep trying to let this die. Almost everything stated here is incorrect.

Payton's eFG% climbed every season he was in Orlando:

14/15: .433
15/16: .456
16/17: .493
17/18: .547 ...so pathetic

That's the damnedest example of stagnation that I've ever seen.

The whole Parker/Payton argument was created by YOU. Even as Payton was clearly demonstrating improvement as a 3-point shooter (37% in his final season with Orlando), you were arguing that he still couldn't be a good offensive player because he didn't take enough of them. In the very same thread, you listed a number of examples of elite point guards and Tony Parker was among them. This despite the fact that Tony Parker was rather notorious for eliminating the 3-point shot from his offensive game. It was a hypocritical argument and you got called on it. You have since morphed it into 'a horde of Payton fanboys said Payton was better than Tony Parker!'

You just can't seem to help yourself. You keep bringing this up at every opportunity. What does any of this have to do with Aaron Gordon?

So Payton is good, according to you?

Also his eFG with Suns was pathetic - 44,7%
and with Pelicans 47,5%
Since he left Magic , in year and half, guy made 35 threes total. His "recepy" for 3s is never shoot them. Needles to say he was wide open on every attemp.
After cutting 3s last year he cut all mid range shots as well. 96% of all his shots were either inside 10 feet or 3s, yet even that didn't help his efficiency.

It was well documented fact that Payton was one of the worst decision makers on defense in whole league and player that would make your pick&roll defense worthless with constant mental errors , as part of his departure ( and new coaching ) Magic defense saw incredible growth.
But even as part of addition by substraction, with taking him off roster Magic defense went from league's 27th "best" -110,5 to 106,8 , with ranked them 10th best.

That's huge.

The whole Parker/Payton argument was created by YOU.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1539082&hilit=elfrid+payton+tony+parker

Enjoy yorself.
From Soul calling me troll ( that got him 11 likes, your included) , posters claiming he is not finished product at 23, that his improvment will be huge ,walking triple double and all other nonsense.
Oh ,and it's pretty obvious that i DID NOT START PAYTON - PARKER comparison ,rather just react to one after poster wrote it.

Elfrid Payton is possibly one of the top 3 pure point guards in this league

That's direct qoute from opening post of thread called "Elfrid Payton is a championship point guard".

And this is qoute from you

For clarification, I've never been off of the Payton bandwagon. I also am not trumpeting what he has been doing of late as the foundation for that, as I'm rather ambivalent on the topic of triple-doubles. It's nice to rack up counting stats, but they provide only a rudimentary understanding of a player's contributions. And frankly, ten is really an arbitrary number that only has meaning because it is the basis for our numeric system.

I've been asking for the offense to run through Payton for the last couple seasons, and I've been baffled as to why we've been trying to force it through Fournier and Vucevic. I want to see an aggressive Elfrid Payton in transition as much as possible, because that is where he was exceptional in college. He is far and away the best facilitator on this team.

I can appreciate the need for any player to be a threat on offense, just as I don't believe anyone's offensive contributions absolve them of their defensive deficiencies. What I take exception to, however, are declarations that Payton will never be such a threat and must be moved. He has clearly improved significantly in his offensive efficiency and i'd be very reluctant to part with any young player that is showing genuine signs of figuring things out. If he regresses next season, then we can have this conversation.

This thread has invited criticism of Payton's game, but it's really a curious time to be ratcheting up that criticism given his improvement on the court.

Amount of bullying from some posters because myself and few others went through about freaking Payton was crazy. Literally people , you included, called us trolls for sharing different opinion on fundamentally flawed player that was piss poor defender, piss poor shooter and terrible decision maker with lazy motor .

Maybe just admit you were wrong and move on? Because you make yourself look pretty bad . Elfrid Payton is pretty bad player, fringe nba player actually. You defending him for 4 + years does not look good for you. Don't do it to yourself, it's worst than Biyombo fans who were celebrating "Congo twin towers" .

What does it has to do with Gordon? Read where Payton's name was mentioned, it wasn't even me who brought it up. But fendilim telling Magicstarswipe "I think part of this is because some posters feel offended when they are being presented facts and statistics contrary to their beliefs." . Witch could also be applyed to you and your over a top Payton love for years that never had any legs. Since i actually respect you as poster, your blind love for such a poor player was always odd, to say a least.

[fendilim]

We drafted Oladipo, he’s the next Wade.

We drafted Gordon, the next Blake Griffin.

We drafted Payton, the next Wall.

We drafted Hezonja, a more athletic Klay Thompson.

We drafted Isaac, the next KD.

We drafted Bamba, Gobert with a 3 point shot.

We are all guilty of homer thoughts with new, young players. If/when they fall short, we should adjust expectations. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with hoping for stardom from a top pick (until they start showing they aren’t on that trajectory).

Either way it’s the off-season and none of this matters. Only a month till the World Cup!

I remember the same conversations about Oladipo that we're having about AG now.

AG was just as good or better than Dipo at 23, so I wouldn't write off AG yet.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

better? How?