Markelle Fultz Updates Thread

[Blue_and_Whte]

Fultz is already better than Grant and Briscoe so even if he doesn't come back 100% its an upgrade. If he doesn't play its not going to doom the franchise, People need to calm down. We gave up one of our worst players for him, a guy who was just waived by the Wizards and who was at his best for us when he was on the bench. If he comes back 100% it would be a massive win for this franchise, but if he doesnt the impact is minimal.

[Def Swami]

They essentially put their eggs into the Fultz basket without any real clear back up plan. They punted on using the draft or free agency to fill those needs, but were perfectly fine doubling down on their gluttony of power forwards for some reason.

... for the time being.

I have taken time away from this board over much of the offseason but it is refreshing to see that you guys haven’t lost your passion for treating every decision as a generation defining mistake.


a) There will always be another draft pick.

b) If Fultz clearly isn’t the answer, we can shop AG and / or others if we feel a need to capitalize now.


There is no hesitation at all from me in saying that Fultz has the most super star potential of anyone to put on the Orlando Magic jersey since Dwight.

That FACT is enough to take a flier on one single season to see if he can be that guy again.

No one implicated the commitment to Fultz as "generation-defining."

It's not a crippling decision by any means. But everyone should be honest about the real possibility that he doesn't play, and the implications that has on the Magic's already shoddy point guard depth, and how that could impact their season.

[magickingdom]

It was Denton noting that he is rehabbing from this issue, not JI.
JI’s statement was that he is doing everything that he needs to to be successful this season. Like he expects him to be ready this season. Otherwise he would have said something to the effect of him working to get ready for the season. Like he is still working to get there?
I know it’s just semantics, but he seems to think he’s going to be successful this year, as he puts it.
But we will know in a few short weeks.
All the guessing will be over.

[MagicFan101]

They essentially put their eggs into the Fultz basket without any real clear back up plan. They punted on using the draft or free agency to fill those needs, but were perfectly fine doubling down on their gluttony of power forwards for some reason.

... for the time being.

I have taken time away from this board over much of the offseason but it is refreshing to see that you guys haven’t lost your passion for treating every decision as a generation defining mistake.


a) There will always be another draft pick.

b) If Fultz clearly isn’t the answer, we can shop AG and / or others if we feel a need to capitalize now.


There is no hesitation at all from me in saying that Fultz has the most super star potential of anyone to put on the Orlando Magic jersey since Dwight.

That FACT is enough to take a flier on one single season to see if he can be that guy again.

No one implicated the commitment to Fultz as "generation-defining."

It's not a crippling decision by any means. But everyone should be honest about the real possibility that he doesn't play, and the implications that has on the Magic's already shoddy point guard depth, and how that could impact their season.

The only question that matters is:

“Do you expect Orlando to compete for a title this season?”

If not, then I do not care whatsoever about implications of our PG depth on the results of the season.

I care about taking chances on players who might be able to get us to the next level. Fultz is such a prospect.

[ezzzp]

Media Day will be telling. If the Magic are still being coy about Fultz's status come day 1 of training camp and still can't confirm if he's participating with the team and going to play in the preseason, then I'm not sure there should be much hope for the kid. It's the most important question we can get answered out of Media Day (September 30). He's essentially been rehabbing for the last 10 months.

Agree with this wholeheartedly.

If Fultz isn't able to practice in training camp after 10 months of rehab, it stands to reason he's just not going to ever be healthy.

How could the Magic possibly justify picking up his option for 20-21 on October 31st if he still can't go in September?

Cutting Fultz $12m salary next summer isn't going to create any cap space for the Magic if they don't pick up his option. So I'm not sure there is much incentive to risk losing him next summer if he plays well this year.

There apparently has only been one similar case of TOS diagnosed for basketball (Ben Uzoh)...so there isn't much to go on as far as recovery timeline.

If you look at Ben Uzoh's case, he took a non-surgical approach (TOS diagnosed Sept 2014) and he appears to have played in the Nigerian league in 2015. But I couldn't find any stat information to see if his shooting had returned by then.

Uzoh played for Nigeria in the 2016 Summer Olympics. In 5 Games he shot the 3PTer well 13-28 (.464) and was also 11-16 (.688) from the charity stripe. That looked promising.

BUT then in the 2017 season in Belgium he only took 4 total three's in 14 games. He did shoot 19-25 (.760) from the FT line. Then this summer at the 2019 FIBA World Cup, in 5 games he only took three 3PA and missed them all.

So while it looks like Uzoh has been a productive player for his teams since his return from TOS, outside of the Olympics in 2016, he hasn't been shooting 3's. Could be role related, or could be TOS related.

[fendilim]

Still rehabbing.. guess he wont be ready for camp

What have you heard?

Not seeing anything like this on social media just yet.

My bad. I thought that was a new article posted two post above mine hahaha

[Def Swami]

... for the time being.

I have taken time away from this board over much of the offseason but it is refreshing to see that you guys haven’t lost your passion for treating every decision as a generation defining mistake.


a) There will always be another draft pick.

b) If Fultz clearly isn’t the answer, we can shop AG and / or others if we feel a need to capitalize now.


There is no hesitation at all from me in saying that Fultz has the most super star potential of anyone to put on the Orlando Magic jersey since Dwight.

That FACT is enough to take a flier on one single season to see if he can be that guy again.

No one implicated the commitment to Fultz as "generation-defining."

It's not a crippling decision by any means. But everyone should be honest about the real possibility that he doesn't play, and the implications that has on the Magic's already shoddy point guard depth, and how that could impact their season.

The only question that matters is:

“Do you expect Orlando to compete for a title this season?”

If not, then I do not care whatsoever about implications of our PG depth on the results of the season.

I care about taking chances on players who might be able to get us to the next level. Fultz is such a prospect.

We'll agree to disagree on this then. I enjoy following the team for reasons beyond "rings or bust."

[Knightro]

Cutting Fultz $12m salary next summer isn't going to create any cap space for the Magic if they don't pick up his option. So I'm not sure there is much incentive to risk losing him next summer if he plays well this year.

Timing is the issue here.

The Magic have to decide on Fultz's option for the 2020-2021 season by October 31st of this year aka a month and a half from now.

If he shows up to camp healthy and able to practice, they're almost certainly picking up his option.

I'm simply suggesting if he's not able to practice on the first day of training camp after 10 full months of rehab, then I wouldn't even waste my time with picking up the option.

If he's not healthy now, it sure stands to reason that he's just not going to get healthy.

Beyond that... if they were to decline Fultz's option and Fournier were to opt out of his contract (I don't expect this, but you never know) it would open up approximately 25M in cap space for the Magic depending on a couple of minor moves.

Now granted they'd have to replace their starting PG *and* starting SG with that money, but there's at least a scenario where they have some cash to spend.

[drsd]

The only question that matters is:

“Do you expect Orlando to compete for a title this season?”

I expect Orlando to be in the playoffs, which of course is the first step to being a title contender.

I liked Augustin's quote that his team goal is to make the Finals. Think big.

For this scenario to become a reality, Fultz and Bamba will need to be major upgrade from last year, with Vučević and Ross playing as hot as last year, and Fournier will need to regain his SG form, AND the team will again to to be incredibly healthy.

That is a lot of "ifs", but yes as of right now, I expect Orlando to compete for a title this season. (why be a fan otherwise???)


..

[pepe1991]

Fun fact, Fultz made first 3 point shot last year, against Orlando in preseason, he also against Orlando played his most effective game last year, shooting 4/6.

He has been gone from NBA since November 20. His player's option has to be picked up until October 31, 2019. Almost one year seems to be enough time to evaluate his progress and rehab.

[MagicFan101]

No one implicated the commitment to Fultz as "generation-defining."

It's not a crippling decision by any means. But everyone should be honest about the real possibility that he doesn't play, and the implications that has on the Magic's already shoddy point guard depth, and how that could impact their season.

The only question that matters is:

“Do you expect Orlando to compete for a title this season?”

If not, then I do not care whatsoever about implications of our PG depth on the results of the season.

I care about taking chances on players who might be able to get us to the next level. Fultz is such a prospect.

We'll agree to disagree on this then. I enjoy following the team for reasons beyond "rings or bust."

There is a lot more than “rings or bust” in my comment.

Getting from the gutter to sustainable greatness is a fun process. I want to enjoy that ride.

What I don’t want is to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan playoff team who fades back into nothingness after trying to take shortcuts by forcing lesser talents just because they fit.

[ezzzp]

duplicate

[ezzzp]

I'm simply suggesting if he's not able to practice on the first day of training camp after 10 full months of rehab, then I wouldn't even waste my time with picking up the option.

If he's not healthy now, it sure stands to reason that he's just not going to get healthy.

That suggests that the FO thinks that 10 months is enough time to rehab TOS...except nobody outside of people inside that process know if that is an accurate assumption. Based on Uzoh, the rehab timeline could be anywhere from 6 months to 17 months.

The 76ers FO thought it would take 3-6 weeks of rehab, which was of course incorrect.

They based that timeline on the history of TOS in baseball (mostly pitchers). In the past, baseball players with TOS have rehabbed for 2 months and if that didn't work they had surgery (removal of a rib). The surgical approach has been erratic, with many of those player's careers ending after the surgery. This was related to the act of throwing of a baseball being a violent motion required for effectiveness (such as pitch speed etc).

That is why I pointed to Uzoh. He is the only athlete whose situation compares to Fultz; both in rehab approach and sport (the related body motion being unique to the sport).

Uzoh took, at bare minimum, 6 months to rehab (Sept 2014 to March 2015 when he signed in Nigerian League) - though it is totally unclear as to when or if he actually played and if so, how much he actually played or if he even took perimeter shots.

The earliest real evidence of Uzoh actually playing and shooting was the 2016 Olympics, which was 17 months after he was diagnosed with TOS. The Magic FO has to know that, and they have to have seen that the rehab has at minimum made Uzoh a productive player for his tier of competition.

Based on that, I can't see the Magic FO not picking up Fultz option (wether he's ready to go in training camp or not).

Beyond that... if they were to decline Fultz's option and Fournier were to opt out of his contract (I don't expect this, but you never know) it would open up approximately 25M in cap space for the Magic depending on a couple of minor moves.

Now granted they'd have to replace their starting PG *and* starting SG with that money, but there's at least a scenario where they have some cash to spend.

If Fournier opts out, its $18.7m + the MLE ($10m and can't be combined with cap space) that would be available...but to get to that amount the Magic have to waive and renounce cap holds for Fournier, Fultz, MCW, Iwundu, Frazier and Augustin. That would leave them with this:

PG: ? / ? / ?
SG: ? / Ross
SF: Gordon / Okeke
PF: Isaac / Aminu
C: Vucevic / Bamba / Birch
+ their 2020 1st rd pick

If Fournier doesn't opt out, there is zero cap space so the Magic would only have the MLE and Vet Minimum to refill the entire PG rotation.

[ezzzp]

Fun fact, Fultz made first 3 point shot last year, against Orlando in preseason, he also against Orlando played his most effective game last year, shooting 4/6.

He has been gone from NBA since November 20. His player's option has to be picked up until October 31, 2019. Almost one year seems to be enough time to evaluate his progress and rehab.

Not necessarily...the only example of TOS in basketball is Ben Uzoh, and his rehab lasted somewhere between 6 months to 17 months.

Uzoh signed with a Nigerian team 6 months after the diagnosis of TOS. [EDIT>] The first record of him playing was on June 1, 2015 (opening night for the Lagos Islanders of NPL) that's 10 months after his diagnosis. He scored 20pt but no indication if any were 3's or long jumpers...but he did make 7-10 free throws.

The earliest record I have found of him shooting 3's again came at the 2016 Summer Olympics (17 months after first being diagnosed with TOS).

[Knightro]

That suggests that the FO thinks that 10 months is enough time to rehab TOS...except nobody outside of people inside that process know if that is an accurate assumption. Based on Uzoh, the rehab timeline could be anywhere from 6 months to 17 months.

You're also assuming that Fultz's thoracic outlet syndrome is actually something he genuinely has and isn't a last ditch effort by him and his representation to cover up a mental block/yips/crisis of confidence.

[jezzerinho]

Hoopshype saying ORL have exercised his option, sorry if this was posted earlier. Had a peek and couldn't see it.

[ezzzp]

That suggests that the FO thinks that 10 months is enough time to rehab TOS...except nobody outside of people inside that process know if that is an accurate assumption. Based on Uzoh, the rehab timeline could be anywhere from 6 months to 17 months.

You're also assuming that Fultz's thoracic outlet syndrome is actually something he genuinely has and isn't a last ditch effort by him and his representation to cover up a mental block/yips/crisis of confidence.

I'm going off of what the Magic's FO is stating that their training and medical staff are doing + what other doctors have voiced about it. I guess its possible that the FO is playing 4-D chess and are using "TOS rehab" as a placebo, but that seems extreme.

[rcklsscognition]

[Max Power]

I kind of expected the team to pick up that option. One year won’t say much about him in this situation. In the end it’ll be a 2 year experiment. The Magic desperately need a star so I understand some of the logic here. 12 mil a year is a lot admittedly though. I personally don’t expect him to pan out. Unless Weltmans holding his cards in his vest there’s nothing out there suggesting Fultz is even remotely recovering from what’s happening with him. We need to hope for some deadline moves for this team to get to the next level. The only potential star we might have could be Issac and we’ll know this year.

[ezzzp]

https://www.nba.com/amp/magic/orlando-magic-q-a-steve-clifford-20190916

Denton: With Markelle Fultz, what is he able to do at this point in terms of five-on-five play. And when he’s fully ready, do you almost treat him like an NBA rookie considering that he’s still only 21 years old and has played just 33 games at this level?

Clifford: The thing for me is that he’s been great, and he’s been in here working. For me, it’s the same thing – we’re taking it day by day and when he gets to the point where he’s ready, we’ll make decisions about all of that. But I’ve been happy with him and he’s great to have around and he has a love of the game.

When I watch him and when I watch some of his (University of) Washington games and when he played last season in Philly, he plays like a D.C. kid. With the D.C. area, they have great coaches, they play with an edge and if you watch his games at Washington and in Philly, you can see it right away. I recruited there for years, and that’s how he plays.

He’s so talented, but just because of the situation (with his injured shoulder), it’s just about him taking it day by day. Seeing how things have progressed have helped him and that’s just the smart way to go for now.