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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time?

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#101 » by MagicMatic » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:00 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Interesting theory, it’s probably true. I hated the pick at the time and still do.

SGA, Sexton, Bridges, and Knox were all still on the board. They all made more sense with the rest of the roster and they have all proven to be better contributors up to this point in their careers.

Bamba will hardly see the floor with a resigned Vuc playing 30+ minutes a night, on brand new contract, and with Birch playing reliable backup minutes on a good deal. What I find funny is that if the FO allegedly found him to be a sunk cost, they did themselves zero favors in making him appear to be more valuable as an asset. He was a waste of a pick and the they have made him as such with their subsequent moves.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#102 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:30 pm

Only few teams fit what Lowe said ,two to be more specific

recently picked can only be in 2017 and 2018 and high pick only means top 6-8 at most and there are players:

2017

1) Fultz , traded
2) Ball ,traded
3) Tatum , star potential
4) Jackson, traded
5) Fox , star potential
6) Isaac
7) Markkanen , looks really solid
8) Ntkilina --- let's keep Knicks here


2018
1) Ayton, looks good to me
2) Bagley ( ??)
3) Doncic, future star
4) Jackson , looks good
5)Young
6) Bamba
7)Carter Jr
8)Sexton
9) Knox


Only ones that could fit this " looks like crap , still not traded" are Bamba, Knox and Ntkilina. So Magic or Knicks.
I don't think Cavs really think they have anything special in Sexton but he wasn't that high of a draft pick to being with.
But things take even more " he talks about Magic" turn when you figure that Frank was out of rotation last year so it's clear that front office isn't high on him.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#103 » by PrimeThyme » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:28 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Interesting theory, it’s probably true. I hated the pick at the time and still do.

SGA, Sexton, Bridges, and Knox were all still on the board. They all made more sense with the rest of the roster and they have all proven to be better contributors up to this point in their careers.

Bamba will hardly see the floor with a resigned Vuc playing 30+ minutes a night, on brand new contract, and with Birch playing reliable backup minutes on a good deal. What I find funny is that if the FO allegedly found him to be a sunk cost, they did themselves zero favors in making him appear to be more valuable as an asset. He was a waste of a pick and the they have made him as such with their subsequent moves.

I was upset about the pick, then talked myself into really liking the pick, and now I feel they botched the pick again. I don't think Bamba will ever get the development he needs here. Anyone that says WeHam predicted Vuc's all-star season last year or that we would be in playoff contention would be lying to themselves. The reality is Bamba was drafted as a Vuc replacement and I don't think they had any intention of resigning Vuc before things played out as they did.

Now we are in a situation where we just resigned Vuc to a longterm big money deal, resigned all the vets and are going all in for the playoffs, and also just resigned a backup center in Birch who is just flat out a better player then Bamba at this stage. All of that spells disaster for Bamba here imo. I just dont think this is the right environment for a raw young guy like Bamba to develop. He needs minutes and I dont expect him to get them anytime soon on this roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#104 » by YosemiteSam » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:40 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
Now we are in a situation where we just resigned Vuc to a longterm big money deal, resigned all the vets and are going all in for the playoffs, and also just resigned a backup center in Birch who is just flat out a better player then Bamba at this stage. All of that spells disaster for Bamba here imo. I just dont think this is the right environment for a raw young guy like Bamba to develop. He needs minutes and I dont expect him to get them anytime soon on this roster.


Agree. If it were up to me I heavily explore trades before the season starts while there still is the hint of potential - even if he is actually a true talent I feel this year based on the depth chart he will only continue to devalue as a top pick if he sees the floor at all.

Think we could explore a Mailik Monk for Bamba deal?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#105 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:52 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
Popsicle1228 wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


I think the Bamba theory is plausible given the information you laid out. If you add that the Magic just re-signed a now All-Star center to a $100 million contract who they seemed to be preparing to replace prior to last season, and re-signed a more than capable back up in Khem Birch, your theory becomes even more plausible. As you do, I hope your theory is wrong for the Magic's sake, but I think there is a better than average chance you are correct.


Plus there's the fact that he hasn't been very good at all so far. It would be weird if the organisation felt they had evidence to support the theory that Bamba will be a great player, because it certainly isn't based on what he put on gameday tape. Given how young and raw he is, my issue with him wasn't the lack of production as much as the lack of hustle and IQ, which I just notice now is exactly what Popsicle said too.
Being raw is an excuse, Hes what 20? Fairly athletic, long arms. Even if his offensive game limited to open threes he should still be impacting the game defensively. or in hustle stats. It may not be so much the lack of IQ as it is a lack for the feel of the game.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#106 » by MagicMatic » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:08 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
Now we are in a situation where we just resigned Vuc to a longterm big money deal, resigned all the vets and are going all in for the playoffs, and also just resigned a backup center in Birch who is just flat out a better player then Bamba at this stage. All of that spells disaster for Bamba here imo. I just dont think this is the right environment for a raw young guy like Bamba to develop. He needs minutes and I dont expect him to get them anytime soon on this roster.


Agree. If it were up to me I heavily explore trades before the season starts while there still is the hint of potential - even if he is actually a true talent I feel this year based on the depth chart he will only continue to devalue as a top pick if he sees the floor at all.

Think we could explore a Mailik Monk for Bamba deal?


The main issue is that, even if he were to develop into a solid contributor, he won’t have the needed opportunity and it’s extremely unlikely he will be getting valuable minutes given the rotation. WeHam selling playoffs, resigning Vuc to a big deal, and acquiring Aminu/ resigning Birch have decreased the chance of him being successful in Orlando. Monk would at least see the court and contribute on this roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#107 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:56 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Interesting theory, it’s probably true. I hated the pick at the time and still do.

SGA, Sexton, Bridges, and Knox were all still on the board. They all made more sense with the rest of the roster and they have all proven to be better contributors up to this point in their careers.

Bamba will hardly see the floor with a resigned Vuc playing 30+ minutes a night, on brand new contract, and with Birch playing reliable backup minutes on a good deal. What I find funny is that if the FO allegedly found him to be a sunk cost, they did themselves zero favors in making him appear to be more valuable as an asset. He was a waste of a pick and the they have made him as such with their subsequent moves.
Bamba will play over Birch and I doubt Vuc plays 80 games this year.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#108 » by Bensational » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:49 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Very well could be the case. We're in a bind now with 2 superior players in front of him, but he's so raw he needs as much experience as he can get.

At this point we're pretty set at C, so my preference would be to trade him in a package for Beal, if we can. If not that, maybe we can get a couple of assets from NOP for him? NAW + Hart? Or perhaps in a package for D'Lo? Bamba + Fournier for D'Lo?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#109 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 pm

It would be nice if we could flip Vuc and Fournier for a young allstar guard.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#110 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:44 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Only few teams fit what Lowe said ,two to be more specific...Only ones that could fit this " looks like crap , still not traded" are Bamba, Knox and Ntkilina. So Magic or Knicks.


Lowe actually said a high pick made in the recent 5 years...so I would add Wiggins (TWolves) and Exum (Jazz) into that mix.

I really don't think this is about Bamba. Its way too early to think that some executives think he's a bust. He literally missed half his rookie season, and it was clear at the time of the draft that he was going to be a project that would take time.

I actually think Lowe is talking about Wiggins. Minnesota weirdly gave him a questionable rookie extension, that's something that fits into the narrative of what Lowe is describing.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#111 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:14 am

ezzzp wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Only few teams fit what Lowe said ,two to be more specific...Only ones that could fit this " looks like crap , still not traded" are Bamba, Knox and Ntkilina. So Magic or Knicks.


Lowe actually said a high pick made in the recent 5 years...so I would add Wiggins (TWolves) and Exum (Jazz) into that mix.

I really don't think this is about Bamba. Its way too early to think that some executives think he's a bust. He literally missed half his rookie season, and it was clear at the time of the draft that he was going to be a project that would take time.

I actually think Lowe is talking about Wiggins. Minnesota weirdly gave him a questionable rookie extension, that's something that fits into the narrative of what Lowe is describing.


Ehh

“a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick



Wiggins was drafted and traded 5 years ago by Flip Sounders, they had Tbih who he signed exstension with and now they have Layden who took job 7 months ago. It's clear that it's not about Wiggins.


Exum was drafted by same GM that still runs the show but after second year it was clear he is injury prone.
Dennis Lindsey didn't really shy away from getting starting level PGs after he saw how injury prone Exum is. Geroge Hill, Ricky Rubio and now Conley.
He also only gave him 3 years $27M exstension in case Exum actually turns a corner. Not big investment for former lottery pick and really not big gamble.


2015
KAT- not him
Russell- traded
Jah- traded
Zingis- traded
Hez -traded
WSC - new team
Mudiay- traded 3 times
Johnson - free agent

2016
Simmons- allstar
Ingram -traded
Brown - not really declining value
Bender -traded
Dunn -traded
Hield- top 5 shooter
Murray- just signed extension
Chriss - traded ( twice?)

And i already went through 2017 and 2018. Almost nobody but Ntkilina, Knox and Bamba fit description.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#112 » by GelbeWand09 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:17 am

Bensational wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Very well could be the case. We're in a bind now with 2 superior players in front of him, but he's so raw he needs as much experience as he can get.

At this point we're pretty set at C, so my preference would be to trade him in a package for Beal, if we can. If not that, maybe we can get a couple of assets from NOP for him? NAW + Hart? Or perhaps in a package for D'Lo? Bamba + Fournier for D'Lo?


I have the feeling Bamba's worth is not much higher than Fultz at the time of the trade now. In a vacuum he still got decent trade value but in our situation probably not. We killed most of his value and nobody gonna give up much, because they know we probably have to trade him after the season anyway or pretty likely, Bamba wants out.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#113 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:32 am

GelbeWand09 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:A slight conspiracy theory:

On the excellent Lowe Post podcast from yesterday about the book Range which espouses broad skills and experiences over specialization, Zach Lowe made a comment about an anonymous team official sharing the anecdote that (paraphrased) “a recently drafted player is clearly to some on the staff not going to pay off, but others in management have a sunk cost in sticking with him because they drafted him high. They could trade him now for value because others still see potential, but they won’t and will lose out on the asset completely to try and save face on the pick”. I’m pretty sure he is referring to Mo Bamba. Here is my conspiracy theory why: At two other times in the podcast Lowe had to randomly come up with an example and both times he cited the Magic. Once was the Magic and the other was Vuc. He clearly had the Magic on his mind. He also talked about them twice on his pod last week with Bill Simmons. I think he has been speaking with someone in the organization about broader issues as he often does, and the Bamba thing was part of it. Now it could be any of the many potential busts recently drafted, but the combination of his recent Magic content and the reality of Bamba’s struggles, his current career stage (still potential) and his clear challenges in motor and b-ball IQ make me pretty sure it is him. I hope I’m wrong or we trade him before his value declines like Josh Jackson or Mario.


Very well could be the case. We're in a bind now with 2 superior players in front of him, but he's so raw he needs as much experience as he can get.

At this point we're pretty set at C, so my preference would be to trade him in a package for Beal, if we can. If not that, maybe we can get a couple of assets from NOP for him? NAW + Hart? Or perhaps in a package for D'Lo? Bamba + Fournier for D'Lo?


I have the feeling Bamba's worth is not much higher than Fultz at the time of the trade now. In a vacuum he still got decent trade value but in our situation probably not. We killed most of his value and nobody gonna give up much, because they know we probably have to trade him after the season anyway or pretty likely, Bamba wants out.


Lot of things determine real value.
You look at landscape of nba teams today, where they are at , what they are aming for and how many atlernatives through draft you can get.
Using draftnet, 4 bigs are expected to be selected in lottery in 2020 with James Wiseman being potential 1# overall pick as center.

Using W-L prediction this teams are expected to be the worst ( and their C position )

Cavs - Tristan Thompson and Zizic , could use lottery pick on C , but might as well improve any other positoin
Knicks- Mitchell Robinson , Bobby Portis, odds are they won't touch another C
Hornets- Zeller, Hernagomez, Biyombo -team that could use young C
Memphis- Jackson Jr, Valenchunas ( odds are they won't need C, rather play JJJ at C)
Suns- Ayton ,won't touch another C any time soon
Wizards -Bryant, 22 years old pretty good, probably no need to change him
Hawks - Len, but they play Collins at C from time to time, could use C
Bulls - lottery pick Carter at C, won't draft or trade for another one
Pistons- Drummond
Pelicans- Jah, Favors , all depends what position will Zion play
Minny- KAT , Deng, Bell
OKC- Adams and Noel
Kings -Dedmon ( could use C )


From all the rest only Mavericks and Celtics really need C, and we don't know would Celtics take another young player while trying to contend.

Seems like most of teams keep drafting bigs in lottery that they don't know what to do with or have any idea how to build team around.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#114 » by zaymon » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:02 am

I think it could be Bamba, but it doeant change much regarding his development. Players with poor work ethic need strong system and we have that, and players without natural feel for the game need good players to observe them and.we have that. Bamba is not some special talent some thought he is ( i was very low on him before the draft) but if he works hard he can be really good. I think there is not a better place for him to develop than here. He has a coach who is elite at using big man, he has one of the three most skilled centers in the world to train with, he has young group to support him, veterans to show him how its done, competetive team. If he doeant develop its mostly his own fault.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#115 » by NavalAviator94 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm

ezzzp wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Only few teams fit what Lowe said ,two to be more specific...Only ones that could fit this " looks like crap , still not traded" are Bamba, Knox and Ntkilina. So Magic or Knicks.


Lowe actually said a high pick made in the recent 5 years...so I would add Wiggins (TWolves) and Exum (Jazz) into that mix.

I really don't think this is about Bamba. Its way too early to think that some executives think he's a bust. He literally missed half his rookie season, and it was clear at the time of the draft that he was going to be a project that would take time.

I actually think Lowe is talking about Wiggins. Minnesota weirdly gave him a questionable rookie extension, that's something that fits into the narrative of what Lowe is describing.


I listened as well. It makes zero sense that it’s Bamba when he couldn’t physically stay on the court to see how good he could be. If anything he’s talking about players like Hezonja or even Elfrid types and even could be thinking of them. People are reading too much into this if they think it’s Bamba. It’s way too early to say that about him.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#116 » by Catledge » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:43 pm

zaymon wrote:I think it could be Bamba, but it doeant change much regarding his development. Players with poor work ethic need strong system and we have that, and players without natural feel for the game need good players to observe them and.we have that. Bamba is not some special talent some thought he is ( i was very low on him before the draft) but if he works hard he can be really good. I think there is not a better place for him to develop than here. He has a coach who is elite at using big man, he has one of the three most skilled centers in the world to train with, he has young group to support him, veterans to show him how its done, competetive team. If he doeant develop its mostly his own fault.


I agree that this is a pretty good development situation for him at this point in his career. If he starts to blow up, then maybe we have to reevaluate some things, but as of right now, this is exactly the right kind of situation for him IMO.

And if he does quickly show that he's too good to be a backup, then that will be a great problem to have.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#117 » by j-ragg » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:50 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Seems like most of teams keep drafting bigs in lottery that they don't know what to do with or have any idea how to build team around.

Exactly this. It's silly to take a big using high draft capital unless they're a Joel Embiid type or Jokic you can run the offense through.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#118 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:02 pm

j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Seems like most of teams keep drafting bigs in lottery that they don't know what to do with or have any idea how to build team around.

Exactly this. It's silly to take a big using high draft capital unless they're a Joel Embiid type or Jokic you can run the offense through.


Tbh i don't think you can win championship with any of them as your best players.
Jokić has terrible stamina, Embiid has terrible durability and "just" poor stamina.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#119 » by basketballRob » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:51 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Very well could be the case. We're in a bind now with 2 superior players in front of him, but he's so raw he needs as much experience as he can get.

At this point we're pretty set at C, so my preference would be to trade him in a package for Beal, if we can. If not that, maybe we can get a couple of assets from NOP for him? NAW + Hart? Or perhaps in a package for D'Lo? Bamba + Fournier for D'Lo?


I have the feeling Bamba's worth is not much higher than Fultz at the time of the trade now. In a vacuum he still got decent trade value but in our situation probably not. We killed most of his value and nobody gonna give up much, because they know we probably have to trade him after the season anyway or pretty likely, Bamba wants out.


Lot of things determine real value.
You look at landscape of nba teams today, where they are at , what they are aming for and how many atlernatives through draft you can get.
Using draftnet, 4 bigs are expected to be selected in lottery in 2020 with James Wiseman being potential 1# overall pick as center.

Using W-L prediction this teams are expected to be the worst ( and their C position )

Cavs - Tristan Thompson and Zizic , could use lottery pick on C , but might as well improve any other positoin
Knicks- Mitchell Robinson , Bobby Portis, odds are they won't touch another C
Hornets- Zeller, Hernagomez, Biyombo -team that could use young C
Memphis- Jackson Jr, Valenchunas ( odds are they won't need C, rather play JJJ at C)
Suns- Ayton ,won't touch another C any time soon
Wizards -Bryant, 22 years old pretty good, probably no need to change him
Hawks - Len, but they play Collins at C from time to time, could use C
Bulls - lottery pick Carter at C, won't draft or trade for another one
Pistons- Drummond
Pelicans- Jah, Favors , all depends what position will Zion play
Minny- KAT , Deng, Bell
OKC- Adams and Noel
Kings -Dedmon ( could use C )


From all the rest only Mavericks and Celtics really need C, and we don't know would Celtics take another young player while trying to contend.

Seems like most of teams keep drafting bigs in lottery that they don't know what to do with or have any idea how to build team around.


If we fell out of the playoff race this year, how about Hayward/ Brown/ and the Memphis pick for Fournier and Vuc?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: bored - when is it B-ball time? 

Post#120 » by ezzzp » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:06 pm

pepe1991 wrote:It's clear that it's not about Wiggins.


You're right, its not Wiggins. I re-listened to the segment about the drafted player, and he states that the player "had not played much" and that he was "selected" in draft by the team. Wiggins doesn't fit that criteria.

One thing I did catch in the re-listen was that Lowe never said it was a high pick, he doesn't even mention lottery. So the list of possibilities should be expanded; at minimum to lottery (though front offices have attachment and are invested to all their draft selections, even ones outside of the lottery).

Bamba can be included in that list of possibilities. But it just seems way too premature to say that Bamba has "not worked out," given his injury and that he was clearly drafted as a long term project. To me, a project pick who missed the second half of his rookie season with injury just does not fit the criteria of a player that "has not worked out."

Here is the transcript:

Zach Lowe (at 23:27): "The sunk cost thing, I literally in the past few days have been talking to someone with a team who in the last - lets say 5 years has drafted a player...the player has not worked out...the player still has trade value because people are curious about this player, hasn't played much - maybe for whatever reason...and someone wants to trade this player, we should jump on that because it hasn't worked out so let's get something...and some of the stakeholders are so invested in this players success having selected him that its a non-starter in the organization...so I think the most likely outcome is he fails again and has no more trade value so they're going to miss an opportunity...its not going to be a big opportunity, its not like they're going to get huge amounts for this player, its just made me think of all of this stuff"

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