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FIBA World Cup

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#121 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:31 am

So much complaining about Giannis offensive foul yesterday.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#122 » by jezzerinho » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:53 am

Khem Birch feeling a little stifled in Clifford's system?

“As you can see I’m doing things I have never done in the NBA that I’m getting to do right now,” he said referring to handling the ball and stepping outside to shoot. “That’s what a lot of guys don’t understand. Coach Nurse gives you the confidence and freedom to do whatever you want. Basically everything you want in the system you have here so I’m lucky.” 6 days ago – via Montreal Gazette
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#123 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:07 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
tiderulz wrote:the Fournier hate is strong on this board
It's not hate, it's the truth. Fournier can be taken out of a game by a longer athletic player.

Hopefully Mitchell doesn't guard him when they play USA. Remember the last game they played against each other?


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Mitchell is 6'3. How is he longer?
Btw he is having terrible world cup
10 ppg
42%FG
32% for 3
2 free throws whole tournament long. Guy plays like poor man Joe Harris.
He has a 6'10 wingspan compared to Evan's 6'7.

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#124 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:11 am

ezzzp wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
tiderulz wrote:the Fournier hate is strong on this board


It's not hate, it's the truth. Fournier can be taken out of a game by a longer athletic player.

Hopefully Mitchell doesn't guard him when they play USA. Remember the last game they played against each other?

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Fournier dropped 24pts / 7reb on Donavan Mitchell in the first of their two meetings last season.

Also, that hot-take that Fournier gets "taken out by longer athletic players" isn't true:

If you look at his best games last season, the majority of those he was being defended by "long and/or athletic" defenders, many of them primarily on the floor specifically for their defense:

Spoiler:
Image


...AND if you look at his worst games last year, many of those came against smaller non-defensive types:

Spoiler:
Image


56% of Fournier's shots last season were either "open" (nearest def 4-6') or "wide open" (nearest def +6')...that indicates to me that for the most part it wasn't about who was defending Fournier, but rather it was more about his shot just being off last season.
If I remember correctly Mitchell had 30 pts and Fournier had like 3 in the last time they played. He was going by Evan at will. I really think he could've scored 50 on him if they exploited the matchup more.

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#125 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:59 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:It's not hate, it's the truth. Fournier can be taken out of a game by a longer athletic player.

Hopefully Mitchell doesn't guard him when they play USA. Remember the last game they played against each other?


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Mitchell is 6'3. How is he longer?
Btw he is having terrible world cup
10 ppg
42%FG
32% for 3
2 free throws whole tournament long. Guy plays like poor man Joe Harris.
He has a 6'10 wingspan compared to Evan's 6'7.

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And? Paul Geroge has 6'11 wnigspan and is one of best defenders in whole league.
Wingspan is easly becomming one of most overrated measurments among fans in basketball. Same thing happend to soccer 8,9 years ago when they started to measure top speed of players and fans acted like it's most important thing ever, Than it turned out that Messi and Ronaldo are not even top 5 ,yet 10 times better than anybody else .

There is no proof that higher wingspan aside from MAYBE centers have any true impact on defense , and there is argument to be made that long arms actually hurt your offense , especially shooting because it mess up your shooting motion (and long fingers palm too much ball )
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#126 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:20 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Mitchell is 6'3. How is he longer?
Btw he is having terrible world cup
10 ppg
42%FG
32% for 3
2 free throws whole tournament long. Guy plays like poor man Joe Harris.
He has a 6'10 wingspan compared to Evan's 6'7.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


And? Paul Geroge has 6'11 wnigspan and is one of best defenders in whole league.
Wingspan is easly becomming one of most overrated measurments among fans in basketball. Same thing happend to soccer 8,9 years ago when they started to measure top speed of players and fans acted like it's most important thing ever, Than it turned out that Messi and Ronaldo are not even top 5 ,yet 10 times better than anybody else .

There is no proof that higher wingspan aside from MAYBE centers have any true impact on defense , and there is argument to be made that long arms actually hurt your offense , especially shooting because it mess up your shooting motion (and long fingers palm too much ball )


I think wingspan is one of the more important features of a player. It wasn't a secret that Phil Jackson always wanted longer players on his team and was pretty successful.

Look at Bill Belichick in the NFL. It's no secret that he requires certain size and speed for different positions.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#127 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:54 pm

Goodby Serbia. Long live oldScola :lol:
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#128 » by Tarheel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:05 pm

Wow Serbia, Scola the GOAT :lol:
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#129 » by agustin1981-ARG » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:20 pm

What a day to be alive!!

Jokic must take clasees from teacher Scola
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#130 » by Def Swami » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm

Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#131 » by Def Swami » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Khem Birch feeling a little stifled in Clifford's system?

“As you can see I’m doing things I have never done in the NBA that I’m getting to do right now,” he said referring to handling the ball and stepping outside to shoot. “That’s what a lot of guys don’t understand. Coach Nurse gives you the confidence and freedom to do whatever you want. Basically everything you want in the system you have here so I’m lucky.” 6 days ago – via Montreal Gazette

Mo Bamba is going to have to step his game up in a major way if he wants to claim any of those back up center minutes.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#132 » by MoMM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm

Def Swami wrote:Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.

Exactly, not sure why people complain so much about Evan, guy has improved his scoring in each of his years, except last year (5.3, 8.4, 12.0, 15.4, 17.2 and 17.8). Having a better bench unit will make him better, because he won't need to play so many minutes.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#133 » by MoMM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:57 pm

agustin1981-ARG wrote:What a day to be alive!!

Jokic must take clasees from teacher Scola

Let's not forget about Campazzo, 18 points and 12 assists is great under FIBA rules.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#134 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:09 pm

Def Swami wrote:Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.


Nobody is saying his play doesn't mean he could be due for a big season... for him. Just seems like people are talking like he's suddenly at 27 years old turned into James Harden. He's still Evan Fournier... he's still going to play like Evan Fournier. Just like Patty Mills won't be dropping 20 ppg for the Spurs. If we're just going by this tournament then that must mean Vuc is in for a crap season. But does anybody really believe that? But good for Evan. He's balling for his national team and has become their go to player.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#135 » by Def Swami » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:39 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.


Nobody is saying his play doesn't mean he could be due for a big season... for him. Just seems like people are talking like he's suddenly at 27 years old turned into James Harden. He's still Evan Fournier... he's still going to play like Evan Fournier. Just like Patty Mills won't be dropping 20 ppg for the Spurs. If we're just going by this tournament then that must mean Vuc is in for a crap season. But does anybody really believe that? But good for Evan. He's balling for his national team and has become their go to player.

Yeah, I don't really take much from a small game sample size of international play. I don't think there will fundamentally be much different from Fournier this season that we haven't seen in the past. But, I'll give him credit for looking good in this tournament; better than looking bad.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#136 » by MoMM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:01 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.


Nobody is saying his play doesn't mean he could be due for a big season... for him. Just seems like people are talking like he's suddenly at 27 years old turned into James Harden. He's still Evan Fournier... he's still going to play like Evan Fournier. Just like Patty Mills won't be dropping 20 ppg for the Spurs. If we're just going by this tournament then that must mean Vuc is in for a crap season. But does anybody really believe that? But good for Evan. He's balling for his national team and has become their go to player.

Vuc averaged 14.6/6.4 in less than 24 minutes and FIBA is way slower than NBA, it's not crap by any means.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#137 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:07 pm

GIannis and Jokić will never be lead stars on championship team and FIBA type competition shows why.
Vučević, Mitchell, Barnes, Schroder and few others show why they are "stars" just because system and usage more than their individual talent. Also feel sorry for Bogdan Bogdanovic who's potential can't be on full display because he plays for Kings instad of some serious team, that guy could easly be 18-21 ppg guy on good team or play Ginobili type of role on virtually every single nba team, including top tear contender.

As for this forum,

Isaac scored 10 points on 30% shooting at open practice and posters were famming over his " improvment" because he attemped driving layup, that he missed ( got fouled ) .

Yet Evan Fournier is averaging 2 ppg more than he averaged in NBA year ago, and they try to downplay it.
Where i really don't care about agendas or being right or wrong, it's impossible to not notice crap like that .

That being said, USA - France is game i wanted to watch since tournament started.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#138 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:24 pm

If USA brought over all of their A-list stars they would be smoking everybody, so don't get it twisted. NBA>FIBA.

As for Fournier... fine... he may be in the running for MIP and an All-star birth this season. Now let's all go back to trashing Isaac like how it's supposed to be.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#139 » by basketballRob » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm

MoMM wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Let's be real. If Jonathan Isaac or Mo Bamba went out there and dropped 20 ppg in this tournament, this place would be getting hype. But it's Evan Fournier and only because it's Evan Fournier is there not more interest in it.

I've never been dubious of Fournier's ability to score. He had a relatively down year by his own standards and trajectory, but I believe that was in large part due to not having the stamina to play for Steve Clifford. I don't believe he was able to defend at the intensity he needed to consistently while also maintaining his offensive efficiency, unfortunately. Maybe this year he comes in better shape to play both sides of the ball. It makes what Vucevic did that much more impressive.


Nobody is saying his play doesn't mean he could be due for a big season... for him. Just seems like people are talking like he's suddenly at 27 years old turned into James Harden. He's still Evan Fournier... he's still going to play like Evan Fournier. Just like Patty Mills won't be dropping 20 ppg for the Spurs. If we're just going by this tournament then that must mean Vuc is in for a crap season. But does anybody really believe that? But good for Evan. He's balling for his national team and has become their go to player.

Vuc averaged 14.6/6.4 in less than 24 minutes and FIBA is way slower than NBA, it's not crap by any means.
He's played against some tough matchups. Players that are bigger than him, give him a really hard time.

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#140 » by ezzzp » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:30 pm

basketballRob wrote:
If I remember correctly Mitchell had 30 pts and Fournier had like 3 in the last time they played. He was going by Evan at will. I really think he could've scored 50 on him if they exploited the matchup more.


So what...Fournier dropped 24 on Mitchell in their first game.

Fournier having a bad game against Mitchell doesn't make your hot take correct. I showed you the evidence to prove it.

...and FYI Mitchell goes by everyone at will, even the most elite wing defenders in the NBA. Wings like that can only be contained with team defense...even then it often doesn't work - Mitchell dropped his season high 46 on Milwaukee, the #1 defense in the NBA.

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