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Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s

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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#41 » by Catledge » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Catledge wrote:It's worth a little perspective on this.

Last year, Mo's 3pt attempt rate was .288. That was 11th on the team (9th among rotation players), equal to Iwundu's rate and less than MCW's rate (.306). His TRB% was second among rotation players (behind Vooch and ahead of Birch), and his ORB% of 8.8 was third among rotation centers but still better than any noncenter on the team.

Through two preseason games in which he's averaged 17.6 minutes per game, he has averaged 1.5 OREBs and 2.5 BLKS.

I don't see what reason people have for suggesting that his 3pt shooting means no offensive rebounding at all or no progress on other areas of his game.


Real context:
preseason and 2 games


What's your point? We should only pay attention to his shot selection in those two games but not to his rebounds and blocks?
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#42 » by pepe1991 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:20 pm

Catledge wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Catledge wrote:It's worth a little perspective on this.

Last year, Mo's 3pt attempt rate was .288. That was 11th on the team (9th among rotation players), equal to Iwundu's rate and less than MCW's rate (.306). His TRB% was second among rotation players (behind Vooch and ahead of Birch), and his ORB% of 8.8 was third among rotation centers but still better than any noncenter on the team.

Through two preseason games in which he's averaged 17.6 minutes per game, he has averaged 1.5 OREBs and 2.5 BLKS.

I don't see what reason people have for suggesting that his 3pt shooting means no offensive rebounding at all or no progress on other areas of his game.


Real context:
preseason and 2 games


What's your point? We should only pay attention to his shot selection in those two games but not to his rebounds and blocks?


Or non of it, since it's preseason. Bamba had great preseason last year as well and he shot 50% for 3 ( 5-10), even had game with 4 blocks and in two games had 9 rebounds.

Imo just how most people would be over dramatic over Ls in preseason now they overhype Ws.

Warriors last year lost 4 of 5 preseason games in pretty brutal fashion ,twice to non other than Lakers, who later went to miss playoffs.
I just can't find any reasons to look too deep into any stats after 2 games. Leading scorer in preaseason over one game is ... Andrew Nicholson , close second is... James Young , after him Donatas Motiejunas. What they all have in common? They don't actually play in nba any more :lol:
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#43 » by magicman112 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:33 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Catledge wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Real context:
preseason and 2 games


What's your point? We should only pay attention to his shot selection in those two games but not to his rebounds and blocks?


Or non of it, since it's preseason. Bamba had great preseason last year as well and he shot 50% for 3 ( 5-10), even had game with 4 blocks and in two games had 9 rebounds.

Imo just how most people would be over dramatic over Ls in preseason now they overhype Ws.

Warriors last year lost 4 of 5 preseason games in pretty brutal fashion ,twice to non other than Lakers, who later went to miss playoffs.
I just can't find any reasons to look too deep into any stats after 2 games. Leading scorer in preaseason over one game is ... Andrew Nicholson , close second is... James Young , after him Donatas Motiejunas. What they all have in common? They don't actually play in nba any more :lol:


Yes it's preseason doesn't mean anything right now. I think some of it was him being on that 2nd unit with Jerian Grant who as we know was absolutely dreadful and then he got injured. I'm not saying he's not to blame for his struggles but there were some factors we'll see how it plays out this season.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#44 » by Catledge » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:37 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Catledge wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Real context:
preseason and 2 games


What's your point? We should only pay attention to his shot selection in those two games but not to his rebounds and blocks?


Or non of it, since it's preseason. Bamba had great preseason last year as well and he shot 50% for 3 ( 5-10), even had game with 4 blocks and in two games had 9 rebounds.

Imo just how most people would be over dramatic over Ls in preseason now they overhype Ws.

Warriors last year lost 4 of 5 preseason games in pretty brutal fashion ,twice to non other than Lakers, who later went to miss playoffs.
I just can't find any reasons to look too deep into any stats after 2 games. Leading scorer in preaseason over one game is ... Andrew Nicholson , close second is... James Young , after him Donatas Motiejunas. What they all have in common? They don't actually play in nba any more :lol:


Well, I also pointed to the 766 minutes he played in his rookie season, when Mo also shot more 3s than centers usually do.

In any event, I'm not suggesting that I think Mo will have a major break-out season, just that shooting 3s is not the thing that is stopping him. The things that have been inhibiting his game IMO have been physical strength, unreliable hands, and defensive awareness. Shooting 3s neither makes those things worse nor slows his improvement in those areas.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#45 » by Knightro » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Gasol was much better and was way more involved in screen actions than Lopez who was pretty much nothing more than spot up shooter only.

Just look at screen asssist numbers:
Gobert 478
Vuc 351
Gasol 217

Mo Bamba 122
.... Brook Lopez 119 :crazy:

Lot of PFs , including Giannis and Ben Simmons, were better screen setters than Lopez.

In whole season he only "rolled" from pick&roll and attacked rim 113 times, Marc Gasol 233 times, Vuc 288, Turner, who also shoots 3s, 303.

Lopez for Bucks become nothing more than glorified 7 foot Tony Snell. Player that really can't put ball on the floor, can't attack off dribble, isn't much of a passer but from time to time can make open shots, but since he was on team with Brogdon, Mirotić, Giannis, Bledsoe, Middleton he looked that much better. Given that they lost Mirotić and Brogdon i kind a expect drop in Bucks W/L column and them being worst than last year.


Gotta be careful with this kind of logic.

Just because guys like Gobert, Vucevic and Gasol were more involved in screen actions than Lopez doesn't mean that they're *better* than Lopez at setting screens. It just means they were tasked with setting screens more often than Lopez was in their respective offensive systems.

Let's do some math...

Gobert
Points off 3PT: 0
Points off screens: 1107
Total: 1,107

Vucevic
Points off 3PT: 252
Points off screens: 797
Total: 1,049

Lopez
Points off 3PT: 561
Points off screens: 275
Total: 836

Gasol
Points off 3PT: 297
Points off screens: 497
Total: 794

Score one for heavy screen setters, right? Not necessarily.

Inherently a huge portion of the value that a "stretch 5" is going to provide a team beyond actually hitting threes comes from the ability to pull the opposing center away from the basket, thus creating more favorable driving lanes which in theory will lead to more more drives total as well as more successful drives.

Let's dive a little deeper...

Let's look at what Giannis and Bledsoe (the Bucks two main driving players) did with Lopez ON the court v. Lopez OFF the court.

Giannis
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 75.4%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 70.5%

Bledsoe
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 69.6%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 65.1%

At the very least it appears both players were helped by Lopez's ability to pull the opposing center away from the rim.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#46 » by Xatticus » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:51 pm

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gasol was much better and was way more involved in screen actions than Lopez who was pretty much nothing more than spot up shooter only.

Just look at screen asssist numbers:
Gobert 478
Vuc 351
Gasol 217

Mo Bamba 122
.... Brook Lopez 119 :crazy:

Lot of PFs , including Giannis and Ben Simmons, were better screen setters than Lopez.

In whole season he only "rolled" from pick&roll and attacked rim 113 times, Marc Gasol 233 times, Vuc 288, Turner, who also shoots 3s, 303.

Lopez for Bucks become nothing more than glorified 7 foot Tony Snell. Player that really can't put ball on the floor, can't attack off dribble, isn't much of a passer but from time to time can make open shots, but since he was on team with Brogdon, Mirotić, Giannis, Bledsoe, Middleton he looked that much better. Given that they lost Mirotić and Brogdon i kind a expect drop in Bucks W/L column and them being worst than last year.


Gotta be careful with this kind of logic.

Just because guys like Gobert, Vucevic and Gasol were more involved in screen actions than Lopez doesn't mean that they're *better* than Lopez at setting screens. It just means they were tasked with setting screens more often than Lopez was in their respective offensive systems.

Let's do some math...

Gobert
Points off 3PT: 0
Points off screens: 1107
Total: 1,107

Vucevic
Points off 3PT: 252
Points off screens: 797
Total: 1,049

Lopez
Points off 3PT: 561
Points off screens: 275
Total: 836

Gasol
Points off 3PT: 297
Points off screens: 497
Total: 794

Score one for heavy screen setters, right? Not necessarily.

Inherently a huge portion of the value that a "stretch 5" is going to provide a team beyond actually hitting threes comes from the ability to pull the opposing center away from the basket, thus creating more favorable driving lanes which in theory will lead to more more drives total as well as more successful drives.

Let's dive a little deeper...

Let's look at what Giannis and Bledsoe (the Bucks two main driving players) did with Lopez ON the court v. Lopez OFF the court.

Giannis
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 75.4%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 70.5%

Bledsoe
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 69.6%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 65.1%

At the very least it appears both players were helped by Lopez's ability to pull the opposing center away from the rim.


This.

There are a lot of plodding bigs in the NBA that lack the mobility to sag and recover. If you have someone that can get into the paint at will and a center that can shoot the three, the defense has to pick their poison. This was Milwaukee's offense in a nutshell.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#47 » by NBlue » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:39 pm

I think the offense discussion on this thread makes a lot of sense. In particular I agree with Xatticus' (and others) commentary on the value of a shooting 5 stretching the floor and creating space for other players.

My main concern with Mo remains on the other end of the floor. The problem with measuring defensive play is that there are essentially no analytics that do it justice. Although you can look at some things -- for the most part since defense is such a team reliant function its hard to really get any objective analysis. What I saw from Bamba last year was that frequently his lack of awareness, motor and even sometimes effort significantly negatively impacted our D. There is no doubt he can block shots and get rebounds - but my concern is how frequently he is out of position or has some issue that results in a bucket - frequently not by the guy he is guarding. The problem with evaluating players on D is that often one weak link can break the entire chain and especially when that link is your 5.

I think it is unquestionable that Bamba has spectacular potential on the offensive end and this thread really does a good job of capturing that. My take is that what is really preventing him from being a true + player is his weakness on D. I would really like to see him improve at that over this year -- I think he has a beautiful stroke and a relatively good feel offensively -- just want to see some fight and awareness on D.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#48 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Oct 9, 2019 6:54 pm

NBlue wrote:I think the offense discussion on this thread makes a lot of sense. In particular I agree with Xatticus' (and others) commentary on the value of a shooting 5 stretching the floor and creating space for other players.

My main concern with Mo remains on the other end of the floor. The problem with measuring defensive play is that there are essentially no analytics that do it justice. Although you can look at some things -- for the most part since defense is such a team reliant function its hard to really get any objective analysis. What I saw from Bamba last year was that frequently his lack of awareness, motor and even sometimes effort significantly negatively impacted our D. There is no doubt he can block shots and get rebounds - but my concern is how frequently he is out of position or has some issue that results in a bucket - frequently not by the guy he is guarding. The problem with evaluating players on D is that often one weak link can break the entire chain and especially when that link is your 5.

I think it is unquestionable that Bamba has spectacular potential on the offensive end and this thread really does a good job of capturing that. My take is that what is really preventing him from being a true + player is his weakness on D. I would really like to see him improve at that over this year -- I think he has a beautiful stroke and a relatively good feel offensively -- just want to see some fight and awareness on D.

and fatigue could've been a factor so I'm excited to see if he's improved on that. He is SOOO much like Elfird, in the sense that (thus far) he has to be told to play with energy and when he does hes pretty good, but often times he doesn't (Which was his knock coming out of college). We'll see, but yes his stroke is crisp, effortless, and fundamentally sound.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#49 » by pepe1991 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 7:00 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gasol was much better and was way more involved in screen actions than Lopez who was pretty much nothing more than spot up shooter only.

Just look at screen asssist numbers:
Gobert 478
Vuc 351
Gasol 217

Mo Bamba 122
.... Brook Lopez 119 :crazy:

Lot of PFs , including Giannis and Ben Simmons, were better screen setters than Lopez.

In whole season he only "rolled" from pick&roll and attacked rim 113 times, Marc Gasol 233 times, Vuc 288, Turner, who also shoots 3s, 303.

Lopez for Bucks become nothing more than glorified 7 foot Tony Snell. Player that really can't put ball on the floor, can't attack off dribble, isn't much of a passer but from time to time can make open shots, but since he was on team with Brogdon, Mirotić, Giannis, Bledsoe, Middleton he looked that much better. Given that they lost Mirotić and Brogdon i kind a expect drop in Bucks W/L column and them being worst than last year.


Gotta be careful with this kind of logic.

Just because guys like Gobert, Vucevic and Gasol were more involved in screen actions than Lopez doesn't mean that they're *better* than Lopez at setting screens. It just means they were tasked with setting screens more often than Lopez was in their respective offensive systems.

Let's do some math...

Gobert
Points off 3PT: 0
Points off screens: 1107
Total: 1,107

Vucevic
Points off 3PT: 252
Points off screens: 797
Total: 1,049

Lopez
Points off 3PT: 561
Points off screens: 275
Total: 836

Gasol
Points off 3PT: 297
Points off screens: 497
Total: 794

Score one for heavy screen setters, right? Not necessarily.

Inherently a huge portion of the value that a "stretch 5" is going to provide a team beyond actually hitting threes comes from the ability to pull the opposing center away from the basket, thus creating more favorable driving lanes which in theory will lead to more more drives total as well as more successful drives.

Let's dive a little deeper...

Let's look at what Giannis and Bledsoe (the Bucks two main driving players) did with Lopez ON the court v. Lopez OFF the court.

Giannis
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 75.4%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 70.5%

Bledsoe
FG% at rim Lopez ON: 69.6%
FG% at rim Lopez OFF: 65.1%

At the very least it appears both players were helped by Lopez's ability to pull the opposing center away from the rim.


This.

There are a lot of plodding bigs in the NBA that lack the mobility to sag and recover. If you have someone that can get into the paint at will and a center that can shoot the three, the defense has to pick their poison. This was Milwaukee's offense in a nutshell.



Brook started to shoot 3s 3 years ago, on Nets

2016-17 season, had off rating of 104,7 , def rating 108,5, OBPM +1,40
2017-18 season, Lakers -106 off rating ,106,8 def rating , OBPM , +0,20


2018-19 season, Bucks, 114,9 off rating, 103 def rating , OBMP , +0,50


So being same player like last year, in two years prior, on teams without Giannis,Brogdon, Middelton he had negative net rating . Always was solid offensive player ( was allstar when he played like post-up big ), but his off rating jumped for almost 7 points.

As from dragging center away from rim, most teams don't defend Cs at 3 point line in general.
Lopez despite being "great"shooter, still made 122 out of 187 of them when nobody was close ( closest defender +6 feet away), additional 55 when he was "open" (4-6 feet away from him) . And on that shots he wasn't really Steph Curry type effective, he was just right there at league average on 36% mark and actually well below average for open shots.


Also in playoffs aside from Jokić ( guarded by Kanter...) and Gasol ( 4th to 5th offensive option on his team ) not a single C had good shooting numbers. Raptors litearlly had that " you think Brook Lopez can beat us with jumpshot -lol let him try" approach as he was left wide open all the time. His tendency to do nothing but shoot allowed Raptors to even switch Fred Van Vleet who is like 5'5 and Brook was still doing nothing but camping.



in this video you can see it yourself, at 1:46 mark you have best example of how unwilling he was to move, while having matchup where player who weights 1/2 of his weight, and is half of person ( in height ) he is on him.

From 2:19 to 2:34 mark you can see him having Vleet and Lowry on his side defending him, once again, instad of looking for post position, he just drifts away from paint and relocates himself at 3 point line for no reason

At 2:45 he has 6'7 Green in matchup who doesn't even care about him, rather clogs the paint leaving good 18 foot between them of space, once again, instad of rushing to the paint and crushing Vleet and Green, Lopez just stands like a wood

And as video goes on you can see how little Gasol was guarding him at 3 point line, it was almost exclusively 6'0 Lowry. Because you won't block his 3 attemp, so why use center? Just use guard to bother him and stop him from making dribbles or passes.

To me that's big issue with bigs taking shots. Only stupid and really poorly coached teams will have strict man to man defense and keep their C on your C at 3 point line, smarter team will just rotate to keep guards in front and it's not like there is single NBA C , aside from maybe Embiid , who can take 3 dribbles and attack your PG off dribble and dunk on your defense ( and even Embiid will do it like 3 times a year ). So what's real value of your C shooting 3s if non of them ever actually shoot 40%+ or have any volumen to beat you ,especially in playoffs? Wanna shoots some 3s? Fine, do it. But don't let it be only thing you do on the floor well on offense.

Going through some Bucks videos, i would just trade Lopez for actual point guard with IQ ( Bledsoe, Lopez for CP3, since they missed chance on Conley) and play Giannis at C. Decision making of Bledsoe , Lopez and GIannis in that playoffs was painful. Their inability to make extra passes made them lose 4 games in a row last playoffs. Also they won't recover from losing Brogdon, that player was one of few players on that roster with advanced BBIQ.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#50 » by Knightro » Wed Oct 9, 2019 7:54 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Brook started to shoot 3s 3 years ago, on Nets

2016-17 season, had off rating of 104,7 , def rating 108,5, OBPM +1,40
2017-18 season, Lakers -106 off rating ,106,8 def rating , OBPM , +0,20
2018-19 season, Bucks, 114,9 off rating, 103 def rating , OBMP , +0,50

So being same player like last year, in two years prior, on teams without Giannis,Brogdon, Middelton he had negative net rating . Always was solid offensive player ( was allstar when he played like post-up big ), but his off rating jumped for almost 7 points.

As from dragging center away from rim, most teams don't defend Cs at 3 point line in general.
Lopez despite being "great"shooter, still made 122 out of 187 of them when nobody was close ( closest defender +6 feet away), additional 55 when he was "open" (4-6 feet away from him) . And on that shots he wasn't really Steph Curry type effective, he was just right there at league average on 36% mark and actually well below average for open shots.

Also in playoffs aside from Jokić ( guarded by Kanter...) and Gasol ( 4th to 5th offensive option on his team ) not a single C had good shooting numbers. Raptors litearlly had that " you think Brook Lopez can beat us with jumpshot -lol let him try" approach as he was left wide open all the time. His tendency to do nothing but shoot allowed Raptors to even switch Fred Van Vleet who is like 5'5 and Brook was still doing nothing but camping.

To me that's big issue with bigs taking shots. Only stupid and really poorly coached teams will have strict man to man defense and keep their C on your C at 3 point line, smarter team will just rotate to keep guards in front and it's not like there is single NBA C , aside from maybe Embiid , who can take 3 dribbles and attack your PG off dribble and dunk on your defense ( and even Embiid will do it like 3 times a year ). So what's real value of your C shooting 3s if non of them ever actually shoot 40%+ or have any volumen to beat you ,especially in playoffs? Wanna shoots some 3s? Fine, do it. But don't let it be only thing you do on the floor well on offense.


Ok, but there's a difference between "he started to shoot threes" and "he took the vast majority of his shots from three".

3PT rate by year...

33% of shots with Nets three years ago
41% of shots with Lakers two years ago
65% of shots with Bucks last year

So really in those Nets and Lakers seasons, Lopez was still spending more time *inside* the arc than outside of it, thus not unlocking his full potential as a floor spacer/wide open shooter that he did in Milwaukee.

Does it help that the Bucks had an elite rim attacker in Giannis that those other teams did not have? Of course it does, but let's look at some more numbers...

With Lakers
Kuzma with Lopez ON: 63.1% at rim
Kuzma with Lopez OFF: 57.1% at rim

Ingram with Lopez ON: 63.0% at rim
Ingram with Lopez OFF: 60.0% at rim

Ball with Lopez ON: 52.7% at rim
Ball with Lopez OFF: 41.9% at rim

Just like the Bucks this year, the Lakers three best perimeter players that year all saw an uptick in their finishing when they shared the floor with Lopez, who again was only taking 41% of his shots from three and not 65% like he did this past year in Milwaukee.

What's also funny to me is that you repeatedly cited Milwaukee's series against Toronto as some sort of negative when Lopez played *better* than he did during the regular season and took less 3's and more shots inside than he had during the regular season. Lopez had a 613 TS% and 127 individual ORTG in the ECF.

Milwaukee lost that series mainly for one reason. It was because Giannis was being defended by two really high end defensive players (Leonard and Siakam) and he shot the ball significantly worse (.644 regular season TS% compared to .518 TS% in the ECF) than he did during the regular season.

They didn't lose because of Lopez that's for sure.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#51 » by BlueBalls » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:14 pm

Sky is the limit for Mo. Been on Team Bamba since the jump.

He's only going to get better. Give him the green light.
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Re: Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s 

Post#52 » by pepe1991 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:14 pm

Knightro wrote:Ok, but there's a difference between "he started to shoot threes" and "he took the vast majority of his shots from three".

3PT rate by year...

33% of shots with Nets three years ago
41% of shots with Lakers two years ago
65% of shots with Bucks last year

So really in those Nets and Lakers seasons, Lopez was still spending more time *inside* the arc than outside of it, thus not unlocking his full potential as a floor spacer/wide open shooter that he did in Milwaukee.

Does it help that the Bucks had an elite rim attacker in Giannis that those other teams did not have? Of course it does, but let's look at some more numbers...

With Lakers
Kuzma with Lopez ON: 63.1% at rim
Kuzma with Lopez OFF: 57.1% at rim

Ingram with Lopez ON: 63.0% at rim
Ingram with Lopez OFF: 60.0% at rim

Ball with Lopez ON: 52.7% at rim
Ball with Lopez OFF: 41.9% at rim

Just like the Bucks this year, the Lakers three best perimeter players that year all saw an uptick in their finishing when they shared the floor with Lopez, who again was only taking 41% of his shots from three and not 65% like he did this past year in Milwaukee.

What's also funny to me is that you repeatedly cited Milwaukee's series against Toronto as some sort of negative when Lopez played *better* than he did during the regular season and took less 3's and more shots inside than he had during the regular season. Lopez had a 613 TS% and 127 individual ORTG in the ECF.

Milwaukee lost that series mainly for one reason. It was because Giannis was being defended by two really high end defensive players (Leonard and Siakam) and he shot the ball significantly worse (.644 regular season TS% compared to .518 TS% in the ECF) than he did during the regular season.

They didn't lose because of Lopez that's for sure.


33% of shots with Nets three years ago
41% of shots with Lakers two years ago
65% of shots with Bucks last year


Nets - 15,6 FGA a game - 5,2 threes a game......... 20 ppg
Lakers - 10,7 FGA a game - 4,4 threes a game........13 ppg
Bucks ---- 9,7 FGA a game --- 6,3 threes a game......12,5 ppg

he went from being 20ppg player to being Frye over 2 years.


With Nets 1,40 Offensive RPM

With Lakers 0,20

With Bucks 0,53

This version of Brook isn't best verson of Brook you can get, it's just version of Brook Bucks prefer.
Al Horford under Mike Budenholzer also was lead to shoot more 3s, in season when they won 60 games he made 11 threes whole season, next year he was shooting 3 a game. Did it help their offense? They went from 6th best offense to 8th worst in one year.
I'm not pinning all of it on his shooting ,but Al Horford, who is like statistical darling of big men shooters, only once was part of offense that was top 5 in offensive rating. During 2009-10, when he took 1 three point shot whole season.

On Celtics, despite superior talent around him ,despite him being one of best shooters, despite having allegedly best young coach out there ( and one of best coaches in general) ,despite playing with allstar Irving ( this year ) their off ratings were 10th in off rating this year, 18th in off rating last year.



Knightro wrote: What's also funny to me is that you repeatedly cited Milwaukee's series against Toronto as some sort of negative when Lopez played *better* than he did during the regular season and took less 3's and more shots inside than he had during the regular season. Lopez had a 613 TS% and 127 individual ORTG in the ECF.



Because of game 1.
For rest o a series he was 12,8 ppg player on 28% for 3 . That's your 36,5% season shooter being 8,5% below average in 5 games.


Overall Raptors defense was pretty much stopping Giannis from entering the paint and rotating players to contest. Bucks lost mostly because their offensive "weapons" are nothing but one trick pony type players that couldn't use adventage of playing what esencially was 3 vs 4 as two players were always only focused on Giannis ( and also his inability to be better contributor off ball ).

Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon

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