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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:17 am
by Bensational
Knightro wrote:MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Finally figured out who Poku reminds me of. He’s a taller version of Ryan Anderson. Shooting and passing are solid but he’s got issues. His foot speed and defensive side is Jokic like. He’s super slow and gets by because he’s so tall. That won’t work in the NBA especially if you’re playing him on the wing.
I absolutely do not think Poku's a wing in the NBA.
He has the basketball skills (shooting, vision, passing, ball handling) of a wing, but the movement skills (speed, agility, athleticism, lateral quickness) of a center.
That's why I'm not really concerned at all if he eventually adds 30 or 40 pounds because I just don't think more weight is going to negatively affect his basketball skill.
But I very much believe more weight is going to be critical to him being able to play as an NBA big man.
Agreed. I thought maybe some SFs, but the quicker ones will give him trouble. I think his handles, at his speed, will be best used against Cs. They're mostly not equipped to guard on ball movement on the perimeter. He needs to be using that skill to pull a key defender out of the paint, otherwise he could end up like Gordon on the perimeter against a player he can't beat.
But his skill set excites me more than Bamba's does, to be honest. So I'd take him as the project C behind Vuc and move Bamba to try address the backcourt.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 1:23 am
by MagicMatic
Def Swami wrote:Knightro wrote:I think Haliburton is great and I think he could fit in quite well with Fultz. I'm very interested in him and Hayes.
I think he's my favorite player in the draft. I'm a little skeptical of the shooting stroke, but it goes in. Along with Hayes, I'd take him before both Edwards and Ball.
Hayes
Edwards
Haliburton
Terry
Lewis
Maxey
Ball
Is my list order for guards. I consider Vassell more of a wing. Maybe I’m too low on Ball. I just think he’s going to be terrible.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:08 am
by Knightro
My ranking of the four top guards right now. All stats are per 40 minutes.
1. LaMelo Ball
21.9 PTS, 10.2 REB, 8.7 AST, 1.9 STL, 0.1 BLK, 3.2 TO, 3.3 PF
.387 FG% on 20.8 FGA, .279 3PT% on 8.4 3PTA, .700 FT% on 4.9 FTA
I think Ball is the best overall mix of basketball skill and physical tools in the draft. He's the best passer in the draft for my money with a 2.72 AST/TO ratio at age 18 as the youngest player in the NBL. He's also a special rebounder and should be one of the best rebounding guards in the league quickly. And he did all that on a 6'8" frame. Being able to handle and pass so effectively at that height is a big selling point for me.
On the downside, Ball's shot selection is particularly poor and his insistence on taking difficult shots definitely drags his efficiency way down. He's also not a very good finisher or defender right now because of his lack of vertical pop, but I'm optimistic both of those things can improve because of his size and frame.
2. Tyrese Haliburton
16.6 PTS, 6.4 REB, 7.0 AST, 2.7 STL, 0.7 BLK, 3.0 TO, 1.4 PF
.504 FG% on 17.2 FGA, .419 3PT% on 6.1 3PTA, .822 FT% on 2.2 FTA
Halliburton is another excellent passer like Ball with a 2.33 AST/TO ratio. I am fully sold on his awareness, basketball IQ and unselfishness translating on both ends of the floor. The jumper is a little mechanical, but hard to argue with the results. Haliburton also seems to find the ball a lot. His REB, STL and BLK rates are all strong for a point guard.
My main concern with Halliburton is his slight frame, lack of strength and lack of vertical pop. He's shorter and lighter than Ball and just wasn't really all that effective inside the arc (poor finisher, extremely low FT rate) in two years at Iowa State. I just don't see him really getting that much stronger which will likely become even more apparent at the next level and limits his overall scoring upside.
3. Killian Hayes
18.7 PTS, 4.6 REB, 8.7 AST, 2.4 STL, 0.4 BLK, 5.2 TO, 4.8 PF
.482 FG% on 13.9 FGA, .294 3PT% on 5.0 3PTA, .876 FT% on 4.4 FTA
Hayes doesn't quite have the elite passing efficiency of Ball or Haliburton at 1.7 AST/TO, but his team absolutely spammed pick and rolls which provided him hundreds of valuable reps and it shows. His 3PT shot isn't where it needs to be, but his FT stroke is so pure that I'm confident it will develop. I also really like Hayes' length + frame and think he could become (he's not there yet) a really effective point-of-attack defender.
Hayes is essentially a one-handed player right now. I watched tape after tape and he simply did not go to his right hand... like ever. Combine that with a lack of vertical pop (noticing a trend here?) and you have another guy who isn't a great finisher. Hayes also oddly shot much better from three off the bounce than he did off the catch and shoot, which is the opposite of most young players.
4. Anthony Edwards
23.1 PTS, 6.3 REB, 3.4 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.7 BLK, 3.3 TO, 2.6 PF
.402 FG% on 19.1 FGA, .294 3PT% on 9.3 3PTA, .772 FT% on 6.5 FTA
Edwards absolutely looks the part of elite NBA SG and he has the ideal combo of strength and vertical athleticism you're looking for in a high end prospect. I like his 3PT volume and his ability to get to the FT line. I love his potential as a finisher because of his power game. He *should* benefit from additional spacing at the next level. Everything about him screams future all-star... except his actual production.
It's probably to be expected since he's a SG and not a PG like the other three, but Edwards is just lagging significantly behind the other three top guards in nuance. He was just very underwhelming in many areas at Georgia - specifically decision making, shot selection, seeing the floor and making quick reads. I think he'll step right in and score points next year, but it might be a while until he positively impacts winning games.
I believe Ball and Edwards will both be gone in the first three picks, but I think it's absolutely possible the Magic could use Gordon and 15 to make an aggressive move up for one of Hayes or Haliburton.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:00 pm
by zaymon
Arent we overlooking Devon Dotson ? I see some Kyle Lowry in him. Can get anywhere on the floor, bulldog on defense, potential as a shooter (smooth stroke, good free throw shooter). He fits with Clifford philospohy- inside out offensively, into the ball defender.
If he becomes a reliable shooter he is unguardable 1 on 1.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:38 pm
by Knightro
zaymon wrote:Arent we overlooking Devon Dotson ? I see some Kyle Lowry in him. Can get anywhere on the floor, bulldog on defense, potential as a shooter (smooth stroke, good free throw shooter). He fits with Clifford philospohy- inside out offensively, into the ball defender.
If he becomes a reliable shooter he is unguardable 1 on 1.
I don't dislike Dotson. In fact, I think he should be a 1st rounder. But he's not a guy I would draft at 15. There will be a lot of other guys available at that spot I like more.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:49 pm
by zaymon
Knightro wrote:zaymon wrote:Arent we overlooking Devon Dotson ? I see some Kyle Lowry in him. Can get anywhere on the floor, bulldog on defense, potential as a shooter (smooth stroke, good free throw shooter). He fits with Clifford philospohy- inside out offensively, into the ball defender.
If he becomes a reliable shooter he is unguardable 1 on 1.
I don't dislike Dotson. In fact, I think he should be a 1st rounder. But he's not a guy I would draft at 15. There will be a lot of other guys available at that spot I like more.
I must give it a few days, but i dont see many guys with better athletic tools. Hampton, Lewis, Cole. I would definetly took Lewis before Dotson.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 10:34 pm
by MagicMatic
Grant Riller should also be a player Orlando looks at.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:01 pm
by MartinsIzAfraud
MagicMatic wrote:Grant Riller should also be a player Orlando looks at.
There are some juicy 2nd round guys but I’d be shocked if we kept ours
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:19 pm
by OrlChamps2030
Any thoughts on Tyrell Terry?
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:45 pm
by Knightro
MagicMatic wrote:Grant Riller should also be a player Orlando looks at.
I'm a fan, but Riller is in that weird dead zone for the Magic.
Not quite good enough to pick at 15. Probably too talented to make it all the way to 45.
Would require some willingness to move around in the draft that the front office hasn't, to date, shown a huge amount of interest in.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:52 am
by zaymon
Knightro wrote:MagicMatic wrote:Grant Riller should also be a player Orlando looks at.
I'm a fan, but Riller is in that weird dead zone for the Magic.
Not quite good enough to pick at 15. Probably too talented to make it all the way to 45.
Would require some willingness to move around in the draft that the front office hasn't, to date, shown a huge amount of interest in.
Maybe it will be Graham all over again, but it seems like one of those guards will fall to us. Terry, Flynn, Mannion, Dotson, Winston, Jones, Riller. Thats seven who are moving between first and secound round in projection. How many teams realistically needs another backup guard?. Sixers and Boston?
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:50 pm
by Knightro
Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just updated his Mock Draft.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. James Wiseman
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Killian Hayes
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Precious Achiuwa
12. Patrick Williams
13. Aaron Nesmith
14. Aleksej Pokuševski
15. Orlando Magic: Cole Anthony, G, North CarolinaI would take several players still available at 15 over Anthony, including Green, Lewis Jr. and Hampton.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:07 pm
by MartinsIzAfraud
Knightro wrote:Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just updated his Mock Draft.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. James Wiseman
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Killian Hayes
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Precious Achiuwa
12. Patrick Williams
13. Aaron Nesmith
14. Aleksej Pokuševski
15. Orlando Magic: Cole Anthony, G, North CarolinaI would take several players still available at 15 over Anthony, including Green, Lewis Jr. and Hampton.
I don’t see this FO taking a lead guard when they have Fultz. I’d be shocked if they didn’t re sign DJ as Cliff loves him.
They’ll likely take a dude who can play off ball and function/fit in. Makes me think guys like Hampton, Maxey, Green, Bane are options.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:05 pm
by KillMonger
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Knightro wrote:Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just updated his Mock Draft.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. James Wiseman
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Killian Hayes
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Precious Achiuwa
12. Patrick Williams
13. Aaron Nesmith
14. Aleksej Pokuševski
15. Orlando Magic: Cole Anthony, G, North CarolinaI would take several players still available at 15 over Anthony, including Green, Lewis Jr. and Hampton.
I don’t see this FO taking a lead guard when they have Fultz.
I’d be shocked if they didn’t re sign DJ as Cliff loves him.
They’ll likely take a dude who can play off ball and function/fit in. Makes me think guys like Hampton, Maxey, Green, Bane are options.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:55 pm
by cedric76
KillMonger wrote:MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Knightro wrote:Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just updated his Mock Draft.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. James Wiseman
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Killian Hayes
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Precious Achiuwa
12. Patrick Williams
13. Aaron Nesmith
14. Aleksej Pokuševski
15. Orlando Magic: Cole Anthony, G, North CarolinaI would take several players still available at 15 over Anthony, including Green, Lewis Jr. and Hampton.
I don’t see this FO taking a lead guard when they have Fultz.
I’d be shocked if they didn’t re sign DJ as Cliff loves him.
They’ll likely take a dude who can play off ball and function/fit in. Makes me think guys like Hampton, Maxey, Green, Bane are options.
I feel the same way, i do not want DJ back
Very nice guy but i do not want to see Fultz in a corner while DJ is jumping into people to draw fouls
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 8:22 pm
by MasterGMer
I do not like Cole Anthony at all as he looks like a mini DJ Augustine.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:04 pm
by The Effect
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Knightro wrote:Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just updated his Mock Draft.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. James Wiseman
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Killian Hayes
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Precious Achiuwa
12. Patrick Williams
13. Aaron Nesmith
14. Aleksej Pokuševski
15. Orlando Magic: Cole Anthony, G, North CarolinaI would take several players still available at 15 over Anthony, including Green, Lewis Jr. and Hampton.
I don’t see this FO taking a lead guard when they have Fultz. I’d be shocked if they didn’t re sign DJ as Cliff loves him.
They’ll likely take a dude who can play off ball and function/fit in. Makes me think guys like Hampton, Maxey, Green, Bane are options.
I love fultz, but he hasnt done enough to force the FO to avoid drafting a lead guard
But even still, i think cole and fultz could play together in the backfield, sort of how CJ and Mitchell play SG at 6'2-3.
I think anthony is EXACTLY what we need, a high volume alpha-scorer who could play off fultz.
Sure he makes some dumb plays, but if we take the ball away from him as a lead ball handler and just let him worry about putting the ball in the basket, we could really have something there with him
The FO should be fired if they pass on him for another 3&D role player like green, we need scorers, not another guy who plays defenses and then comes back and stands around waiting for the open 3. We dont have lebron, we cant get away with building a team like hes our star. We need the CJM, Jamal Murray, donovan mitchell TYPE of player, Anything besides that will be another wasted draft pick
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:14 pm
by Skin
MasterGMer wrote:I do not like Cole Anthony at all as he looks like a mini DJ Augustine.
Yeah let's not be in a rush to get the best player on the worst North Carolina team that Roy Williams couldn't stand coaching.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:46 pm
by pepe1991
Magic won't find any better backup than DJ for no salary they have to offer nor with #15 pick.
IF you think some Theo Meldon /Maxey will just come in and fill backup PG min, good luck, not only he will suck on his own, he will drag whole bench with him. PG is hardest position to play, even at backup spot.
People who think DJ " sucks" don't know much about basketball and probably thought Payton is next comming of Jason Kidd.
Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread
Posted: Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:10 pm
by MartinsIzAfraud
pepe1991 wrote:Magic won't find any better backup than DJ for no salary they have to offer nor with #15 pick.
IF you think some Theo Meldon /Maxey will just come in and fill backup PG min, good luck, not only he will suck on his own, he will drag whole bench with him. PG is hardest position to play, even at backup spot.
People who think DJ " sucks" don't know much about basketball and probably thought Payton is next comming of Jason Kidd.
Which is why DJ coming back is so obvious to see. Cliff loves him, he is ok coming off bench and will be cheap. They’ll take BPA at 15 likely knowing Fournier opts in and at best 15 pick will get 10-12 minutes a night.
Will be interesting to see if Ennis opts in or goes for a small long term deal. Does the FO pick up Frazier’s contract or do they cut it and push that money+ to Iwundu whose a FA. Have a feeling only 1 of Ennis Iwundu MCW are on this team next year.