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Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#601 » by drsd » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:32 am

PrimeThyme wrote:(Bamba's) skillset is extremely valuable in today's NBA and it's my belief that he, not Mitchell, is the real key to Utah's success.


Bamba's outside shooting needs to be on your list. If Bamba emerges as a 40%, high volume 3-ball shooter, he could change the NBA.

A 3-and-D at the 5-slot would be transformational !!!!

..
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#602 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:52 am

drsd wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:(Bamba's) skillset is extremely valuable in today's NBA and it's my belief that he, not Mitchell, is the real key to Utah's success.


Bamba's outside shooting needs to be on your list. If Bamba emerges as a 40%, high volume 3-ball shooter, he could change the NBA.

A 3-and-D at the 5-slot would be transformational !!!!

..


Turner, Lopez... problem is fact that nba has never seen great high volumen center who can shoot well over longer period of time, and it's not hard to understand why. Having +7'5 wingspan makes your shooting mechanics as ****ed up.

Other problem is purpose of that type of player once teams figure he really can't do anything even if you switch 6'0 player on him. Interrupting his catch&shoot puts him in situation where he stands 26 feet away from rim , with poor passing skills and inability to put ball on the floor. It's a turnover waiting to happen. For same reason both Lopez and Turner literally destroyed team USA few years back. They couldn't make shots and they just kept killing offensive flow.

Celtics made Lopez usless ( 5 ppg, 28% FG) ,he played much better vs Raptors but still couldn't shoot with any consistancy from outside ( 31%) so they kept crowding paint for Giannis.
Turner is career 35% three point shooter who in playoffs can't even get shots up. Vs Celtics he shot 3/14 for a series... Is career 25% three point shooter in playoffs.

Embiid, Davis, Cousins are all somewhat respectful 3 point shooters in regular season that turn into sub 30% outside shooters in playoffs because teams put some pressure on them.
Bigs simply are not made to be great shooters.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#603 » by drsd » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:21 am

pepe1991 wrote:Bigs simply are not made to be great shooters.



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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#604 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:06 pm

pepe1991 wrote:For 2 years in a row Mo Bamba averages 6,5 fouls per 100 possessions and per 36 min, he is also heavy -4,8 fouls a game.


I agree Bamba is very foul prone right now, but that's pretty normal for a young big who attempts to block a lot of shots. It also isn't necessarily an indicator that he won't be able to become a starting C in the near future.

Rudy Gobert at age 21 = 6.9 fouls per 100
Mitchell Robinson at age 21 = 6.7 fouls per 100
Mo Bamba at age 21 = 6.5 fouls per 100

So it stands to reason Bamba will be able to improve this as he gets older and more experienced.

pepe1991 wrote:There are many nba centers with solid tool-box that simply do not have talent, mobility and durability of Gobert. If you look at guys like Ian Mahinmi, Thon Maker, Capela, Ayton, Thomas Bryant, McGee, WSC... lot of them are actually strong, fast and athletic, yet nobody comes close to impact that Gobert has. And non of them is actually worth taking in lottery.


You specifically mentioned Ian Mahinmi, Thon Maker, Clint Capela, DeAndre Ayton, Thomas Bryant, JaVale McGee and Willy Cauley Stein as examples of strong, mobile centers who didn't make a Gobert level impact.

My counter to that would be that Bamba is a whole lot closer defensively to Gobert than any guy you mentioned on the list and he's showing much more skill as a shot blocker and rebounder at a much younger age than any of those guys did

Bamba's career best BLK/100 is 4.8 and his career best REB/100 is 16.8. These both came at age 21.

Mahinmi
Played 23 total minutes as a 21 year old and didn't play 500 minutes in a season until he was 25
Career best BLK/100 = 3.0 as a 27 year old
Career best REB/100 = 16.0 as a 28 year old

Maker
2.5 BLK/100 and 10.0 REB/100 as a 21 year old

Capela
3.1 BLK/100 and 16.5 REB/100 as a 21 year old

Ayton
2.4 BLK/100 and 17.1 REB/100 as a 21 year old

Bryant
2.1 BLK/100 and 14.4 REB/100 as a 21 year old

McGee
3.5 BLK/100 and 13.6 REB/100 as a 21 year old

WCS
In college at age 21
2.2 BLK/100 and 12.0 REB/100 as a 22 year old in the NBA

So as you can see, Bamba is the best shot blocker of the group of players you mentioned by a mile and also the best rebounder of the bunch outside of Ayton.

pepe1991 wrote:Talking about his jumpshot, while we talk about player who played 107 games, made 58 threes on 33% , while being wide open on 85% of them, and who got 1 three point shot contested in his nba career ( literally, one), and who can't even pass 65% on FT line, while shoots 34% from mid range as " shooting range that develops nicely" is borderline crazy talk to me.


The context of age and position matter GREATLY here. If you're comparing Bamba to guards and wings then of course his shooting isn't going to look as impressive. But when you compare it to centers and specifically young centers, you'll see why it's developing nicely.

Bamba attempted 5.8 threes/100 and hit at a .356 clip this year.

A few centers like Nikola Jokic, Brook Lopez and even our very own Nikola Vucevic have hit this mark in the last 2-4 years, but only one other player has ever done it at age 21 or younger and that's Karl Anthony Towns.

Midrange shooting is essentially useless for the vast majority of NBA players, so I don't care if he's not shooting well from that area as I wouldn't want him taking many shots from there anyway.

You also said his FT% has never topped 65% which A. isn't true as he was 67.4% this year and B. ignores the fact that from Year 1 to Year 2 he raised his FT% almost 10% which is a very good sign for his future prospects as a FT shooter. There's also a key piece of context that's being left out which is just how poorly most centers actually shoot free throws. Only 9 qualified centers in the league are over 68% this season. Just 16 the year before and just 12 the year before. Typically less than half the starting centers are over 70% and Bamba is trending in that direction at a young age.

pepe1991 wrote:What's actually bizzare and depressing is that he shoots 34,9% from pick&rolls when he rolls and brings 0,82 points per possession when he does it.
That's your 6'11 center with 8 foot wingspan that can almost dunk a ball without jumping, missing 65% of shots where he needs to do between 0 to 2 steps and dunk. To comparison to Gobert, he shoots 64% from same plays.


Of all the things you said, this is the one I agree with the most. Bamba did only convert 19.4% of his shots from 3-10 feet this season, which is just way too low.

To be fair, Gobert at the same age only converted 13.3% of his shots from the same area. Rudy has since improved to the upper 30s percentage wise as he's gotten older.

This is an area where Bamba definitely needs to improve and do it quickly. I agree.

pepe1991 wrote:As for his motor, it's not just motor, it's understanding of basketball all together. Mcgee had nice motor, but was always too dumb to play more. We all know basketball defense in 99% of cases is not about shotblocking, rather making right decisions that will not put you in position where your center needs to save you. Tim Duncan couldn't jump over phonebook last 5 years of his career and was easly one of best defensive centers out there based on intelligence alone.


Fair point, but in Bamba's case though, I just don't think see it as a lack of basketball IQ. He's a smart kid. I've watched enough of the games to see that the wheels are turning in Mo's head in terms of knowing where he needs to be, he's just often gets there too late or never gets there at all because of a lack of effort. Some of that can be tied into poor conditioning and some of that can be tied into the fact he just isn't the type of player who plays balls to the wall at all times.

pepe1991 wrote:And given where Magic took him, being in objective range of landing Doncic or Young, and passing on SGA, passing on Porter Jr ( both could have been traded down for ) , and having Mitchell Robinson being BETTER player than Bamba, while providing everything Bamba provides - while being taken 36th, really makes whole logic behind that draft night head scratcher.


This whole "objective range of Doncic or Young" thing has to stop. It's silly. Those guys were picked 3rd and 5th in a pre-arraigned trade and the Magic were selecting 6th. There was just no scenario after the draft lottery went down where the Magic were coming away with Luka Doncic or Trae Young. Suggesting they should have lost more during the regular season is a completely different argument.

If the Magic wanted SGA or Porter Jr., they would have needed to select them at 6. You can't just say "oh well they could have traded down" like that's something that can be willed into existence. There has to be someone that someone wants to trade up for in order to move back.

I wasn't high on him at the time, but I can buy the argument that they could/should have picked SGA at 6 over Bamba even though most everyone had Bamba ranked as a significantly higher prospect at the time. Michael Porter Jr had a nice season in a limited role with Denver and it appears he's primed for more, but he's also a pure PF and very likely can't play anywhere else, so you'd have the same logjam problem with Gordon/Isaac/Porter

pepe1991 wrote:And even if Bamba was that new Gobert ( while they simply turned blind eye on everything negative reported about him), it would still not make that much difference because what makes Gobert - Gobert is fact they don't really need him to do much on offense rather just set picks and roll off, as they have Ingles, Mitchell, Conley, in past Rubio, now even Bogdanovic...
So even in Jazz vacuum, Gobert MIGHT be the most important player ,but without Mitchell and supporting offensive cast, they would still be lottery team.


This whole "you shouldn't draft Player X until you have Player Y" argument just makes no sense to me because you're just not always going to be in a position to find or already have a star. If a complimentary piece to a star is the best thing you can acquire at a given time, then you pick him up and try like hell to find the star later on.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#605 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:54 pm

I personally do not think it's that silly. Atlanta's GM was openly shopping the pick as their newly hired GM from GSW was sold on Trae as the next Curry and knew that they could trade back to get him as Memphis was sold on JJJ and Dallas had just drafted an undersized guard with a top 10 pick the year before. It's not that crazy to think if we offered Atlanta something along the lines of 2 firsts and AG that we could have made a competitive offer.

I think in reality if our FO was going to move up in that draft at all, it would have been for Bamba. That's just the type of player they look for. They don't have the foresight or balls to move up for a player like Doncic.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#606 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:09 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I personally do not think it's that silly. Atlanta's GM was openly shopping the pick as their newly hired GM from GSW was sold on Trae as the next Curry and knew that they could trade back to get him as Memphis was sold on JJJ and Dallas had just drafted an undersized guard with a top 10 pick the year before. It's not that crazy to think if we offered Atlanta something along the lines of 2 firsts and AG that we could have made a competitive offer.

I think in reality if our FO was going to move up in that draft at all, it would have been for Bamba. That's just the type of player they look for. They don't have the foresight or balls to move up for a player like Doncic.


I just don't agree with this at all.

The Hawks had one goal coming out of that draft. Come away with Trae Young. I firmly believe if Atlanta hadn't been able to trade back, they would have simply selected Young over Doncic at 3.

With that in mind, there's just no offer the Magic could have made to the Hawks involving the the 6th pick that Atlanta would have jumped on because they wouldn't have risked losing Young to Dallas at 5 or having the Mavs trade the pick to someone else to take Young at 5.

Young was 100% their guy and 5 was the furthest they could move back and still guarantee they'd get him. Moving back to 6 was never an option for Atlanta no matter what the Magic were offering IMO.

The Magic could have tried to aggressively move up to 4, but it's the same situation in the end. The Grizzlies wouldn't go for it because they were locked into JJJ and couldn't guarantee that Dallas wouldn't select him at 5 if they traded back to 6.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#607 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:46 pm

Knightro wrote:I just don't agree with this at all.

The Hawks had one goal coming out of that draft. Come away with Trae Young. I firmly believe if Atlanta hadn't been able to trade back, they would have simply selected Young over Doncic at 3.

With that in mind, there's just no offer the Magic could have made to the Hawks involving the the 6th pick that Atlanta would have jumped on because they wouldn't have risked losing Young to Dallas at 5 or having the Mavs trade the pick to someone else to take Young at 5.

Young was 100% their guy and 5 was the furthest they could move back and still guarantee they'd get him. Moving back to 6 was never an option for Atlanta no matter what the Magic were offering IMO.

The Magic could have tried to aggressively move up to 4, but it's the same situation in the end. The Grizzlies wouldn't go for it because they were locked into JJJ and couldn't guarantee that Dallas wouldn't select him at 5 if they traded back to 6.

&& you don't have to. I'm not claiming it as fact. It really just comes down to whether or not you think Dallas would have selected Young at 5. Imo, there is close to a zero % chance they would have considering they had just selected an undersized guard with a top 10 pick the year before. It's the general consensus that they were high on Bamba, needed a center, and would have selected him if they had not moved up.

It's my belief they could have made a more than competitive offer with that in mind to move up. Again tho, its kind of a pointless debate regardless because we have a FO who plays it laughably safe and targets a certain kind of player.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#608 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:55 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:&& you don't have to. I'm not claiming it as fact. It really just comes down to whether or not you think Dallas would have selected Young at 5. Imo, there is close to a zero % chance they would have considering they had just selected an undersized guard with a top 10 pick the year before. It's the general consensus that they were high on Bamba, needed a center, and would have selected him if they had not moved up.

It's my belief they could have made a more than competitive offer with that in mind to move up. Again tho, its kind of a pointless debate regardless because we have a FO who plays it laughably safe and targets a certain kind of player.


I'm not disagreeing that the Magic could have made a better offer than the one Dallas made. I just simply think Atlanta would have said no to moving back to 6 even if the rest of the deal was loaded with sweeteners that made it overall more appealing than Dallas' offer of one future first round pick. I think the Hawks wanted Trae Young that badly and weren't going to risk losing him by going to 6.

Considering Dallas traded Dennis Smith Jr. away just six months and 32 games played after the 2018 draft, they clearly weren't all that tied to him as a long-term core piece. That leads me to believe Young certainly would have been a strong consideration for them at 5.

This really goes back to what I was talking about earlier in the thread about almost always taking BPA at the top the draft and figuring out roster fit later with trades and free agent signings.

On paper it definitely looked like Dallas needed a young center more than they needed a young point guard in the 2018 draft.

But that sort of broad look at the situation ignores the fact that Trae Young is significantly better than Dennis Smith Jr and also better than Mo Bamba.

So why would Dallas pass on the superior talent in favor of fit? If the Mavericks weren't able to move up to 3, I think they would have exactly what they ended up doing with Doncic and drafting the player they deemed to be best overall talent (Young) and then trade DSJ for a big man shortly thereafter.

It's not really any different than what the Sixers did by drafting Embiid after they had already used high picks on Noel and Okafor. From a pure roster fit perspective, it was dumb of them to take a center for the third year in a row. But from a "we think this guy will be really good and we believe he's clearly better than the guys we already have" perspective, it was obviously the right move.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#609 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:14 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Bigs simply are not made to be great shooters.





7'5 Steph Curry :lol:
in 9 ish years of rest of his career he made like 37 threes all together :lol:
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#610 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:39 am

Knighto i don't want to reply just to avoid spamming, but to me everything Bamba related comes to few things:
1) we won meaningles game that striked us out of Young- Doncic range
2) both are allstars and bright young stars while we have backup center who is best used at 12 mpg, in age where half of teams don't even use backup center any more
3) his ceiling simply isn't high enough to justfy 6# selection
4) I'm pretty sure that even if we had 3# pick we would still pass on Doncic or Young to draft Bamba because our front office drafts for gimmicky prospects rather than skill
5) Almost all your Gobert number comparisons are made on purpose based on age, you compare rookie 21 year old Gobert to second year Bamba, but in reality Bamba turned 22 during this season ( still 2019-20 is listed as 21 ) and Rudy at 22 ( second year) was smoking him in all categories

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We can play this "Bamba improved, he can block shots and make open jumpers" lie all we want. He did improved from last year when he was by most margins top 10 worst NBA player but he still isn't anything more than bench role player. In reality he plays super limited role because he can't handle bigger one. I don't compare his jumpshot to guards i compare his jumpshot to league average. League does not care that you don't have Steph Curry and nobody forces you to take jumper from a center position. It's something teams do to themselfs. Being blinded into percentage instad of contest is something fans do to themselfs. Lou Williams is also 35% three point shooter, but unlike Bamba, he commands attention, and unlike Bamba he made over 100 threes this year. Bamba made 37 and nobody guarded him at all. For defense it's sill valuable possession when they force 34% mid range shooter and 67% FT shooter into 3 point shot that he converts without even guarding him- just on a line of league's average.

And no you don't need to land player X to land player Y, you simply have to have star before anything. Bamba isn't one and never will be one, just like Gobert will never be better than 3rd best player on championship team. And Bamba will never come close to Gobert in any department.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#611 » by Knightro » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:16 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Knighto i don't want to reply just to avoid spamming, but to me everything Bamba related comes to few things:
1) we won meaningles game that striked us out of Young- Doncic range
2) both are allstars and bright young stars while we have backup center who is best used at 12 mpg, in age where half of teams don't even use backup center any more
3) his ceiling simply isn't high enough to justfy 6# selection
4) I'm pretty sure that even if we had 3# pick we would still pass on Doncic or Young to draft Bamba because our front office drafts for gimmicky prospects rather than skill
5) Almost all your Gobert number comparisons are made on purpose based on age, you compare rookie 21 year old Gobert to second year Bamba, but in reality Bamba turned 22 during this season ( still 2019-20 is listed as 21 ) and Rudy at 22 ( second year) was smoking him in all categories

We can play this "Bamba improved, he can block shots and make open jumpers" lie all we want. He did improved from last year when he was by most margins top 10 worst NBA player but he still isn't anything more than bench role player. In reality he plays super limited role because he can't handle bigger one. I don't compare his jumpshot to guards i compare his jumpshot to league average. League does not care that you don't have Steph Curry and nobody forces you to take jumper from a center position. It's something teams do to themselfs. Being blinded into percentage instad of contest is something fans do to themselfs. Lou Williams is also 35% three point shooter, but unlike Bamba, he commands attention, and unlike Bamba he made over 100 threes this year. Bamba made 37 and nobody guarded him at all. For defense it's sill valuable possession when they force 34% mid range shooter and 67% FT shooter into 3 point shot that he converts without even guarding him- just on a line of league's average.

And no you don't need to land player X to land player Y, you simply have to have star before anything. Bamba isn't one and never will be one, just like Gobert will never be better than 3rd best player on championship team. And Bamba will never come close to Gobert in any department.


1. What does this have to do with Bamba? Essentially you're admitting that your own sour grapes about the Magic missing out on Doncic and Young is negatively effecting your opinion of Bamba even though the player himself had nothing to do with that. Also I went back and looked and you're showing some nice revisionist history hindsight here because you said this about Trae Young and Mo Bamba the day after the 2018 draft...

I simply can't wrap my head around so much hate that Bamba gets for not being freaking Trae Young. People get over yourselves, odds that Young will bust out are so damn high. You get PG with no strength, athleticism, leaping or lateral quality, highly questionable decision making at PG, crazy high volume with only focus on one side of the basketball. He can end up being new Brandon Jennings so damn easily, and probably he will.

You clearly weren't broken up about missing on Young in the moment. But now that Young has proven he's a high end offensive player, the talking points have changed and now he's been lumped into the "I can't believe they didn't land him" discussion alongside Doncic for you even though they passed on neither of them?

2. Yes they are. And they were drafted 3rd and 5th and the Magic were picking 6th. Orlando didn't pass on either of them. They were both picked before the Magic were on the clock. And the only reason Bamba is a backup C right now is because the Magic somewhat foolishly bought into both a contract year from Vucevic and an overachieving late push by the team in 18-19 and decided to lock themselves into a 42 win roster that was powered by great health and multiple players having career best seasons.

3. Bamba's ceiling is EXTREMELY high and that's why they picked him. Now knowing what we know about his motor, the odds of him reaching his ceiling are arguably pretty low, but the likelihood of him reaching his ceiling v. what his ceiling actually is are different arguments entirely.

But let's take a look at the next four players picked after Bamba...

Carter: -2.0 BPM in 2366 career minutes
Sexton: -3.4 BPM in 4748 career minutes
Knox: -5.2 BPM in 3324 career minutes
Bridges: -0.6 BPM in 4189 career minutes

I can buy the argument that the Magic should have considered Shai Gilgeous-Alexander because at the time Fultz had not yet played a game for Orlando and SGA fit into the whole measurements thing some people seem to be convinced is the only thing this front office looks at. But realistically had they passed on Bamba, it would have very likely been for one of the four guys listed above and they'd probably be even worse off than they are now.

4. There's simply no evidence of this whatsoever. Nothing more than a baseless opinion.

5. I'm not totally sure why you're trying to argue age semantics here, but Mo Bamba did NOT turn 22 "during this season". His birthday isn't until the middle of May. Had the season not gotten delayed, the regular season would have been over and the Magic would have likely already been eliminated from the playoffs while he was still 21.

To the rest of your post...

Yes, Gobert made MASSIVE improvements from age 21 to 22. We would be incredibly fortunate if Bamba improved that much this before the start of next season. But given how much he improved from Year 1 to Year 2, I feel like he's absolutely on an upward trajectory.

Bamba plays a limited role because the Magic opted to resign a near 33 MPG veteran center to a massive four-year contract and those two guys can't be on the floor at the same time. We have no idea what Bamba could do with starter minutes because he's literally never been put in a position to play more than 25 minutes in a game yet in his career.

And again about this whole shooting thing. You don't want to compare a center's three point shooting with the entire league average because every other non-center position shoots more threes and at a higher percentage, so you compare with the league average of all the centers in the league for an accurate representation of his shooting ability compared to his peers.

I'm very confident that Bamba will continue to improve as a shooter given the fact his 3PT% and FT% both jumped significantly in Year 2. So as his percentages continue to rise, the Magic will actually benefit greatly from the fact that most of his 3PT shots are uncontested. Big men will either start to defend him tighter which will pull them further away from the bucket and the Magic will reap all the benefits of that. Or centers will continue to ignore him and the Magic will get uncontested 3PT attempts from a guy who's already making 35% at 21 years old and appears primed to keep improving. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#612 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:53 pm

The picks that the FO has made aren’t bad individually per se. Do I still think drafting a player like Bamba at 6 is gettting good value? No. Did drafting him make less sense after handing Vuc a 4 year deal? Yes. Bamba can still carve out a role though and was being talked about around that pick, so if they believe he was their “bpa”, then whatever. I’ll chalk it up to overall poor asset management and move on.

My criticism of their drafting comes at all the other decisions they make or don’t make in regards to the draft. Orlando isn’t a market, or in the position, to be adding ancillary pieces to a lacking roster. The draft needs to be used as the primary source of acquiring talent. Orlando won’t be landing a star caliber player any other way, and we’ve never been relevant without it.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#613 » by Skybox » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:07 pm

I can't disagree that they have been single-minded in their pursuit of positional length, high-level defensive potential, and maybe BPA regardless of need but I'm pretty happy with the picks over the last few years...However, the foundation is laid for their style of play, if there was ever a time to swing away for some offensive firepower, maybe even a non-safe pick, I think this is the time, this is the most mysterious draft, and 15 is the right slot to go for it. There should be a LOT less second-guessing if 15 in 2020 doesn't turn out to be a solid contributor. I'll be really disappointed if we go high-floor, I'll be distraught if we go defense first, I'll be murderous if we go big man. I think it'll be a good day!
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#614 » by Def Swami » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:36 pm

The 2018 NBA Draft was a real flash bulb draft for us. I was absolutely certain the night before the draft that the Magic were taking Trae Young at #6. Our team had been linked to him all year. We had a clear need at point guard and had such a lack of shooting and playmaking. I rarely invest in players in the draft because it's such a crapshoot and the Magic never draft who I want them to, but I really felt that Young would have been the star player we needed. The night before the draft, even Woj had Trae Young going to us.
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Woj has even said in podcasts following the draft that the Magic had their heart set on Trae Young and were disappointed when he wasn't there at #6. Never tweeted, but I'm certain the Magic wanted Young in 2018 (it's been awhile since I've been that devastated by a pick not falling to us; even Porzingis had enough buzz to NY that I never really believed it was possible).

The audible to Bamba wasn't as straight forward as I think it was in the front office. There was real buzz the night of the draft that we could take Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
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I personally misread Alexander. I didn't expect him to be this good of a scorer in the league. I was on board with Bamba. I missed on SGA. I still like Bamba and was encouraged by his growth from year 1 to 2. I think his ceiling is a 3&D center, and I think he's shown some encouraging signs of that. SGA clearly could have filled a need though.

The margins for becoming a competitive team are so razor thin. I bet the Magic front office debated SGA vs Bamba in their war room. And that one decision can alter the franchise's trajectory. I always say that it feels unfair to hold these professionals to such high expectations to hit on every draft pick, but these are the margins you have to work to earn your paycheck in competitive professional sports. I think the Weltman-Hammond regime has been average in terms of the draft. Not bad, not good, but just average. As a result, after 3 years, and 3 drafts, I think average drafting, average trades, and average free agency gets you an average win record. We're team average.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#615 » by zaymon » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:07 pm

I think its too early to call everything average. They hit with Isaac and we still dont know about Okeke. I dont like our 2018 pick but Bamba was bpa at the time, and he still has propably more potential than SGA. Calling their trades average is an insult to Fultz, maybe he wont pan out but the trade was brilliant. Payton and Ennis were minor ones, but still positive in hindsight. Their free agent signings were also stellar. Simmons was seen as a steal when we signed him, MCW is great, Birch was nice find. Overall its not perfect, but i would say above average. Remember in what place we were 3 years ago......
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#616 » by cedric76 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:47 pm

zaymon wrote:I think its too early to call everything average. They hit with Isaac and we still dont know about Okeke. I dont like our 2018 pick but Bamba was bpa at the time, and he still has propably more potential than SGA. Calling their trades average is an insult to Fultz, maybe he wont pan out but the trade was brilliant. Payton and Ennis were minor ones, but still positive in hindsight. Their free agent signings were also stellar. Simmons was seen as a steal when we signed him, MCW is great, Birch was nice find. Overall its not perfect, but i would say above average. Remember in what place we were 3 years ago......


Weham s trades are 100 times better than any fantasy trades that i m seeing on this board

People r only happy when they complain

People r sad
Otto porter for AG+DJ+2nd

Fultz. Mcw
Evan. Ross. Iwundu
Chuma. Aminu.. Ennis
Isaac. Aminu
Vuc. Mo. Birch
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#617 » by Knightro » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:24 pm

Def Swami wrote:The 2018 NBA Draft was a real flash bulb draft for us. I was absolutely certain the night before the draft that the Magic were taking Trae Young at #6. Our team had been linked to him all year. We had a clear need at point guard and had such a lack of shooting and playmaking. I rarely invest in players in the draft because it's such a crapshoot and the Magic never draft who I want them to, but I really felt that Young would have been the star player we needed. The night before the draft, even Woj had Trae Young going to us.

Woj has even said in podcasts following the draft that the Magic had their heart set on Trae Young and were disappointed when he wasn't there at #6. Never tweeted, but I'm certain the Magic wanted Young in 2018 (it's been awhile since I've been that devastated by a pick not falling to us; even Porzingis had enough buzz to NY that I never really believed it was possible).

The audible to Bamba wasn't as straight forward as I think it was in the front office. There was real buzz the night of the draft that we could take Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.

I personally misread Alexander. I didn't expect him to be this good of a scorer in the league. I was on board with Bamba. I missed on SGA. I still like Bamba and was encouraged by his growth from year 1 to 2. I think his ceiling is a 3&D center, and I think he's shown some encouraging signs of that. SGA clearly could have filled a need though.

The margins for becoming a competitive team are so razor thin. I bet the Magic front office debated SGA vs Bamba in their war room. And that one decision can alter the franchise's trajectory. I always say that it feels unfair to hold these professionals to such high expectations to hit on every draft pick, but these are the margins you have to work to earn your paycheck in competitive professional sports. I think the Weltman-Hammond regime has been average in terms of the draft. Not bad, not good, but just average. As a result, after 3 years, and 3 drafts, I think average drafting, average trades, and average free agency gets you an average win record. We're team average.


100% same boat as me.

I figured Ayton and Doncic were the only two players who would for sure be off the board before 6.

I DESPERATELY wanted Trae Young at 6. If Young was gone and they were going with a big, I wanted JJJ over Bamba.

I didn't want Bagley. I completely misevaluated SGA and really didn't think he was worthy of the 6th pick at all. I was too scared of Porter's medicals to pull the trigger on him.

Basically Bamba was the first guy of my second tier of choices and unfortunately the entire first tier went before 6.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#618 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:05 am

I've heard some Twolves fans say they'd be willing to trade James Johnson and 1st pick, for our pick and AG. If we could get Edwards, I'd do it.

They already have Beasley and Culver. We have Okeke and Aminu.

They would probably have a playoff team with AG. AG 24, Towns 24, Russell 24, Beasley 23.

They could also draft a decent player with our pick.

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#619 » by drsd » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:18 am

basketballRob wrote:I've heard some Twolves fans say they'd be willing to trade James Johnson and 1st pick, for our pick and AG. If we could get Edwards, I'd do it.

They already have Beasley and Culver. We have Okeke and Aminu.

They would probably have a playoff team with AG. AG 24, Towns 24, Russell 24, Beasley 23.

They could also draft a decent player with our pick.


Given that there is now a 100.1% chance that Johnson opts-IN to a single year $16,047,100 contract. And given that Fournier is probably to opt-in to a $17,150,000 contract year, this means that Orlando would have north of 33M in expiring for the 2021 off-season (in a year where the salary cap will depress Max values). But Orlando would probably just use that on their own core and go for no new talent in the FA market (Fultz and Isaac contracts).

A sophomore season of Edwards for the 2021/22 season could thus have this starting five by your narrative:
Fultz/Edwards/Isaac/Okeke/Vučević.

Add a very nice depth chart that includes Ross, Bamba and Aminu, this is a modern NBA team that is constructed.
I think the Front Office would agree to this trade.


..
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#620 » by Knightro » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:18 am

The idea of AG and 15 for Johnson’s expiring and the Wolves first is very intriguing, but it does depend on where Minnesota ends up.

If the Wolves ends up slotted 3, 4 or 5 and Edwards/Ball go 1-2, then what?

The Magic can’t realistically take Wiseman unless they’re willing to immediately trade Vucevic or Bamba or both.

Deni Avdija or Killian Hayes perhaps?

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