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Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#621 » by Jstock12 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:28 pm

Knightro wrote:The idea of AG and 15 for Johnson’s expiring and the Wolves first is very intriguing, but it does depend on where Minnesota ends up.

If the Wolves ends up slotted 3, 4 or 5 and Edwards/Ball go 1-2, then what?

The Magic can’t realistically take Wiseman unless they’re willing to immediately trade Vucevic or Bamba or both.

Deni Avdija or Killian Hayes perhaps?


Hayes > Avdija

Avdija's ceiling - Gallinari-lite. Which isn't a bad player, but I think Hayes can be better. Avdija can also very realistically become Hezonja 2.0
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#622 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:03 pm

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Knighto i don't want to reply just to avoid spamming, but to me everything Bamba related comes to few things:
1) we won meaningles game that striked us out of Young- Doncic range
2) both are allstars and bright young stars while we have backup center who is best used at 12 mpg, in age where half of teams don't even use backup center any more
3) his ceiling simply isn't high enough to justfy 6# selection
4) I'm pretty sure that even if we had 3# pick we would still pass on Doncic or Young to draft Bamba because our front office drafts for gimmicky prospects rather than skill
5) Almost all your Gobert number comparisons are made on purpose based on age, you compare rookie 21 year old Gobert to second year Bamba, but in reality Bamba turned 22 during this season ( still 2019-20 is listed as 21 ) and Rudy at 22 ( second year) was smoking him in all categories

We can play this "Bamba improved, he can block shots and make open jumpers" lie all we want. He did improved from last year when he was by most margins top 10 worst NBA player but he still isn't anything more than bench role player. In reality he plays super limited role because he can't handle bigger one. I don't compare his jumpshot to guards i compare his jumpshot to league average. League does not care that you don't have Steph Curry and nobody forces you to take jumper from a center position. It's something teams do to themselfs. Being blinded into percentage instad of contest is something fans do to themselfs. Lou Williams is also 35% three point shooter, but unlike Bamba, he commands attention, and unlike Bamba he made over 100 threes this year. Bamba made 37 and nobody guarded him at all. For defense it's sill valuable possession when they force 34% mid range shooter and 67% FT shooter into 3 point shot that he converts without even guarding him- just on a line of league's average.

And no you don't need to land player X to land player Y, you simply have to have star before anything. Bamba isn't one and never will be one, just like Gobert will never be better than 3rd best player on championship team. And Bamba will never come close to Gobert in any department.


1. What does this have to do with Bamba? Essentially you're admitting that your own sour grapes about the Magic missing out on Doncic and Young is negatively effecting your opinion of Bamba even though the player himself had nothing to do with that. Also I went back and looked and you're showing some nice revisionist history hindsight here because you said this about Trae Young and Mo Bamba the day after the 2018 draft...

I simply can't wrap my head around so much hate that Bamba gets for not being freaking Trae Young. People get over yourselves, odds that Young will bust out are so damn high. You get PG with no strength, athleticism, leaping or lateral quality, highly questionable decision making at PG, crazy high volume with only focus on one side of the basketball. He can end up being new Brandon Jennings so damn easily, and probably he will.

You clearly weren't broken up about missing on Young in the moment. But now that Young has proven he's a high end offensive player, the talking points have changed and now he's been lumped into the "I can't believe they didn't land him" discussion alongside Doncic for you even though they passed on neither of them?

2. Yes they are. And they were drafted 3rd and 5th and the Magic were picking 6th. Orlando didn't pass on either of them. They were both picked before the Magic were on the clock. And the only reason Bamba is a backup C right now is because the Magic somewhat foolishly bought into both a contract year from Vucevic and an overachieving late push by the team in 18-19 and decided to lock themselves into a 42 win roster that was powered by great health and multiple players having career best seasons.

3. Bamba's ceiling is EXTREMELY high and that's why they picked him. Now knowing what we know about his motor, the odds of him reaching his ceiling are arguably pretty low, but the likelihood of him reaching his ceiling v. what his ceiling actually is are different arguments entirely.

But let's take a look at the next four players picked after Bamba...

Carter: -2.0 BPM in 2366 career minutes
Sexton: -3.4 BPM in 4748 career minutes
Knox: -5.2 BPM in 3324 career minutes
Bridges: -0.6 BPM in 4189 career minutes

I can buy the argument that the Magic should have considered Shai Gilgeous-Alexander because at the time Fultz had not yet played a game for Orlando and SGA fit into the whole measurements thing some people seem to be convinced is the only thing this front office looks at. But realistically had they passed on Bamba, it would have very likely been for one of the four guys listed above and they'd probably be even worse off than they are now.

4. There's simply no evidence of this whatsoever. Nothing more than a baseless opinion.

5. I'm not totally sure why you're trying to argue age semantics here, but Mo Bamba did NOT turn 22 "during this season". His birthday isn't until the middle of May. Had the season not gotten delayed, the regular season would have been over and the Magic would have likely already been eliminated from the playoffs while he was still 21.

To the rest of your post...

Yes, Gobert made MASSIVE improvements from age 21 to 22. We would be incredibly fortunate if Bamba improved that much this before the start of next season. But given how much he improved from Year 1 to Year 2, I feel like he's absolutely on an upward trajectory.

Bamba plays a limited role because the Magic opted to resign a near 33 MPG veteran center to a massive four-year contract and those two guys can't be on the floor at the same time. We have no idea what Bamba could do with starter minutes because he's literally never been put in a position to play more than 25 minutes in a game yet in his career.

And again about this whole shooting thing. You don't want to compare a center's three point shooting with the entire league average because every other non-center position shoots more threes and at a higher percentage, so you compare with the league average of all the centers in the league for an accurate representation of his shooting ability compared to his peers.

I'm very confident that Bamba will continue to improve as a shooter given the fact his 3PT% and FT% both jumped significantly in Year 2. So as his percentages continue to rise, the Magic will actually benefit greatly from the fact that most of his 3PT shots are uncontested. Big men will either start to defend him tighter which will pull them further away from the bucket and the Magic will reap all the benefits of that. Or centers will continue to ignore him and the Magic will get uncontested 3PT attempts from a guy who's already making 35% at 21 years old and appears primed to keep improving. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.


1& 2 point : Magic assets were far superior than Dallas had. Matter of fact Dallas only asset were 2018 draft pick , random 2019 pick and Dennis Smith.
Magic, by beating them, pushed them into having better draft pick and esencially helped them get in a spot where they can make a move for Doncic.
I was not high on Young, that's not secret, but it's not like i'm scout. Or anything more but just a fan. It's not hard to look back two years later and see who's mistakes are worst: random fan or general GM and president of basketball operations.

As usual, Magic front office showed zero desire to make high risk moves and just kept their pick, moved nothing and drafted center. Witch is mistake in itself, even if you ignore fact that SGA ( borderline allstar 2 years later ) was passed on, while in mean time Magic were starting DJ Augustin at PG.
3. That's nothing but personal opinion. He, today, at age of 22 would not log 20 mpg on any NBA team because he does not have BBIQ , skill nor stamina to play more. In mean time 3 players at age of 22 were allstars this year. That's high celing. Not player that is 14 mpg bench warmer on 30-36 team.

„We have no idea what Bamba could do with starter minutes because he's literally never been put in a position to play more than 25 minutes in a game yet in his career.“
Actually just a notion that Steve Clfford refused to start him after Vuc got hurt says a lot about where he is at as a player. Where we were starting Birch over him.

And at the end of a day we talk about 5,5 ppg player… Five point five . Let's stop any sorto f crazy talk and Gobert comparisons. It's getting silly. If he is some massive superstar that is ready to break , he would eat Vuc alive at every practice to the point where it would be embarrassing for Clifford to not play him more. In reality , matched against Maxi Kleber, guy looked like 2011 Dirk was back.
Or game where 6'7 Jamyahal Green was playing bully- ball against him in post .
Or game where he fouled out in 13 min.
Or game where he fouled out in some sort of record time, 10:03 min ( 1 point ,6 fouls)
Come on man, he is second year player, but he is 9th to 10th man in rotation of team that should not be in playoffs.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#623 » by drsd » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:03 pm

Jstock12 wrote:Hayes > Avdija

Avdija's ceiling - Gallinari-lite. Which isn't a bad player, but I think Hayes can be better. Avdija can also very realistically become Hezonja 2.0


Killian Hayes, a tall French PG playing in Germany. Accept, he is also an American citizen from Lakeland, FL!

His father DeRon Hayes was a Pen State star (and was also born in Florida). There is a "coming home" story for Hayes, and PG depth is always worth drafting for. He has length and wing-span. A decent J. He is already a pro-baller getting reps in.


Sounds good to me !

,,
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#624 » by Knightro » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:1& 2 point : Magic assets were far superior than Dallas had. Matter of fact Dallas only asset were 2018 draft pick , random 2019 pick and Dennis Smith.
Magic, by beating them, pushed them into having better draft pick and esencially helped them get in a spot where they can make a move for Doncic.


I ask again, what does this have to do with Bamba?

The game you're referring to in 2018 btw...

Vucevic, Fournier, Isaac, Simmons and Ross all sat out. So five of the Magic's primary 8-man rotation didn't even play that game.

The Magic played 9 players that night. Just two years later only three of the nine guys who played (Gordon, Augustin, Biyombo) are even NBA rotation players. Several of them - Artis, Mack, Purvis - aren't even in the NBA.

I get that fans want to pin a ton of blame on Weltman and Hammond for not forcing Vogel to tank harder late that season, but they finished 5-14 over their last 19 games for goodness sake. That's a .263 winning percentage which is the equivalent to 21.5 wins over a whole season. They were horrible and sitting guys out routinely.

The Mavericks, who openly admitted in public that they were tanking, finished with the exact same 5-14 record over their final 19 games as the Magic did. That includes beating a 49 win Portland team at home on April 3rd.

But regardless of all of that, it still has nothing to do with Mo Bamba the player. You're again confirming that the fact the front office didn't handle the end of the 17-18 season the way you would have liked has made you more biased against the player they ended up selecting.

pepe1991 wrote:I was not high on Young, that's not secret, but it's not like i'm scout. Or anything more but just a fan. It's not hard to look back two years later and see who's mistakes are worst: random fan or general GM and president of basketball operations.

As usual, Magic front office showed zero desire to make high risk moves and just kept their pick, moved nothing and drafted center. Witch is mistake in itself, even if you ignore fact that SGA ( borderline allstar 2 years later ) was passed on, while in mean time Magic were starting DJ Augustin at PG.


All I would say to this is that you don't know what types of conversations the Magic did or did not have. Orlando may have very well been calling Phoenix, Sacramento, Atlanta, Memphis and Dallas and simply got rebuffed.

Trading up in the NBA draft, particularly in the top 5, is pretty rare thing. If you go back to the last 20 years of drafts which is 100 top five picks, there have only been six trade ups in the top 5 involving draft picks. If you dive a little deeper, there's only been one trade, the Jazz in 2005, where a team used a pick outside of the top 5 to get into the top 5.

2004: Charlotte traded 4 and 33 for 2
2005: Utah traded 6, 27 and a 2006 1st for 3
2006: Portland traded 4 and Victor Khryapa for 2
2008: Memphis traded 5, Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, and Jason Collins for 3
2017: Boston traded 3 and 2019 1st for 1
2018: Dallas traded 5 and a 2019 1st for 3

There have been quite a few veteran for draft pick swaps (Ray Allen, Elton Brand, Kevin Love, etc) in the top 5, but those are different things entirely.

I fully admit that I personally misevaluated SGA and how good he would be. I didn't think he was worthy of being picked 6th and that appears to be have been very wrong. But four other teams also passed on him after the Magic, so clearly there was something in his evaluation where teams didn't think he was worth a top 10 pick. I also think it's worth noting that SGA is not playing PG pretty much at all. 97% of his minutes this year came at either SG or SF, with just 3% at PG. Seems like pairing him with a hall of fame point guard has done wonders for his development off the ball.

pepe1991 wrote:3. That's nothing but personal opinion. He, today, at age of 22 would not log 20 mpg on any NBA team because he does not have BBIQ , skill nor stamina to play more. In mean time 3 players at age of 22 were allstars this year. That's high celing. Not player that is 14 mpg bench warmer on 30-36 team.

„We have no idea what Bamba could do with starter minutes because he's literally never been put in a position to play more than 25 minutes in a game yet in his career.“
Actually just a notion that Steve Clfford refused to start him after Vuc got hurt says a lot about where he is at as a player. Where we were starting Birch over him.


Why not?

The sample size is very small, but in the 10 games Bamba has played 20+ minutes in his career, he's averaged 9 PPG, 7 RPG, 2 BLK and only 2 fouls with a TS% of .615 in 22.4 MPG.

Bamba should be playing more than he is and the only reason he isn't is because the Magic opted to resign Vucevic and you can't play them both at the same time.

I like Steve Clifford. I think he squeezes as much blood as possible out of whatever stone that he's handed, but you and I both know that guy is going to put an emphasis on winning ahead of player development 100 times out of 100.

pepe1991 wrote:And at the end of a day we talk about 5,5 ppg player… Five point five . Let's stop any sorto f crazy talk and Gobert comparisons. It's getting silly. If he is some massive superstar that is ready to break , he would eat Vuc alive at every practice to the point where it would be embarrassing for Clifford to not play him more. In reality , matched against Maxi Kleber, guy looked like 2011 Dirk was back.
Or game where 6'7 Jamyahal Green was playing bully- ball against him in post .
Or game where he fouled out in 13 min.
Or game where he fouled out in some sort of record time, 10:03 min ( 1 point ,6 fouls)
Come on man, he is second year player, but he is 9th to 10th man in rotation of team that should not be in playoffs.


You do realize that Rudy Gobert at the same age played all of 434 minutes for the *season* and averaged a whopping 2.3 PPG.

I'm not suggesting Bamba is going to be some future superstar, but there's no reason why he couldn't be a starting center *right now* for a rebuilding club and become more than that down the road for a winning club.

The only reason he isn't playing more right now because the Magic have a 100M dollar veteran center in front of him who plays 33 MPG. That's it.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#625 » by cedric76 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:22 pm

Knightro wrote:The idea of AG and 15 for Johnson’s expiring and the Wolves first is very intriguing, but it does depend on where Minnesota ends up.

If the Wolves ends up slotted 3, 4 or 5 and Edwards/Ball go 1-2, then what?

The Magic can’t realistically take Wiseman unless they’re willing to immediately trade Vucevic or Bamba or both.

Deni Avdija or Killian Hayes perhaps?



I d do that trade any days of the Week

Johnson (Exp) + Min 1st for AG + our 2020 1st + our 2020 2nd

Resign Wes and MCW on the cheap

Draft BPA

Fultz, Mcw
Evan(Exp),Ross,wes
Ennis,Chuma,JI,Wes
JI,Aminu,Johnson(EXP)
Vuc/Bamba/Birch (Exp)
Otto porter for AG+DJ+2nd

Fultz. Mcw
Evan. Ross. Iwundu
Chuma. Aminu.. Ennis
Isaac. Aminu
Vuc. Mo. Birch
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#626 » by Knightro » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:24 pm

cedric76 wrote:I d do that trade any days of the Week

Johnson (Exp) + Min 1st for AG + our 2020 1st + our 2020 2nd

Resign Wes and MCW on the cheap

Draft BPA

Fultz, Mcw
Evan(Exp),Ross,wes
Ennis,Chuma,JI,Wes
JI,Aminu,Johnson(EXP)
Vuc/Bamba/Birch (Exp)


I'm all for adding good, young, cost-controlled talent. But if it's anyone but Edwards, the Magic would have to make some difficult roster decisions.

Is LaMelo Ball going to end up a better pro than Markelle Fultz?

Is James Wiseman better than Mo Bamba or Nikola Vucevic?

Edwards is the only easy fit. He plugs right into the starting SG slot when Fournier leaves.

Ball, Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija if you don't think he can play the 3, Haliburton -- are any of these kids going to end up being better than the players the Magic already have?

If so, great! Pick them and figure out how to alleviate the roster crunch with trades.

If not? Then it gets tricky.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#627 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:45 pm

Knightro wrote:
cedric76 wrote:I d do that trade any days of the Week

Johnson (Exp) + Min 1st for AG + our 2020 1st + our 2020 2nd

Resign Wes and MCW on the cheap

Draft BPA

Fultz, Mcw
Evan(Exp),Ross,wes
Ennis,Chuma,JI,Wes
JI,Aminu,Johnson(EXP)
Vuc/Bamba/Birch (Exp)


I'm all for adding good, young, cost-controlled talent. But if it's anyone but Edwards, the Magic would have to make some difficult roster decisions.

Is LaMelo Ball going to end up a better pro than Markelle Fultz?

Is James Wiseman better than Mo Bamba or Nikola Vucevic?

Edwards is the only easy fit. He plugs right into the starting SG slot when Fournier leaves.

Ball, Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija if you don't think he can play the 3, Haliburton -- are any of these kids going to end up being better than the players the Magic already have?

If so, great! Pick them and figure out how to alleviate the roster crunch with trades.

If not? Then it gets tricky.



I don’t think Lamelo > Fultz is a question we would be asking in that scenario. The question would be whether or not Lamelo + Fultz is a backcourt we want to build around.

Given his unique size and combination of shooting / passing I can see Lamelo as a target for WeHam.

Fultz + Lamelo + Isaac could be a very intriguing modern day trio. If Chuma truly is a starting caliber 3&D role player then this is a very nice young core; even more so if Bamba keeps improving.

Fultz, MCW
Lamelo, Ross
Chuma, Wes
Isaac, Chief
Vuc, Bamba
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#628 » by Xatticus » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:38 pm

Knightro wrote:
cedric76 wrote:I d do that trade any days of the Week

Johnson (Exp) + Min 1st for AG + our 2020 1st + our 2020 2nd

Resign Wes and MCW on the cheap

Draft BPA

Fultz, Mcw
Evan(Exp),Ross,wes
Ennis,Chuma,JI,Wes
JI,Aminu,Johnson(EXP)
Vuc/Bamba/Birch (Exp)


I'm all for adding good, young, cost-controlled talent. But if it's anyone but Edwards, the Magic would have to make some difficult roster decisions.

Is LaMelo Ball going to end up a better pro than Markelle Fultz?

Is James Wiseman better than Mo Bamba or Nikola Vucevic?

Edwards is the only easy fit. He plugs right into the starting SG slot when Fournier leaves.

Ball, Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija if you don't think he can play the 3, Haliburton -- are any of these kids going to end up being better than the players the Magic already have?

If so, great! Pick them and figure out how to alleviate the roster crunch with trades.

If not? Then it gets tricky.


This.

I think the most talented player in the draft is Wiseman. He has good size and athleticism and he gets up and down the floor really easily. He has some touch around the basket and from mid-range and his shot looks like it will be useful. He was dominant in his limited run and he looks like he has so much room for improvement. I think he'd fit really well alongside Fultz, but how could we even entertain taking him? He is going to have to play right away and we don't have the minutes for it. I'd be skeptical about his fit with either of Vucevic or Bamba on the roster. With both...? The reactions on draft night would be hilarious.

Edwards is everything you want physically and I love his personality. He'd make a lot of sense for us even though I expect he is going to get off to a rough start in the NBA. If you watch his highlights, he looks phenomenal, but nothing jumps off the page statistically. If he hasn't mastered the collegiate level, the adjustment to the NBA is going to be rough. I could understand moving Gordon for him though, because the upside is that high and we are that desperate for his skill set.

I could also understand moving Gordon for Ball. I think he is overhyped, but he is a playmaking guard and we need that. I don't think he fits with Fultz at all, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting him as I'm not that bullish on Fultz. I need to see a lot more from Fultz before I'd be willing to let his fit alongside other players influence my roster decisions.

Nobody else is worth giving up Gordon for. I'm not saying that other players won't provide more long-term value than Gordon, but this front office has made some short-sighted decisions in an effort to compete for the playoffs and it wouldn't make any sense to trade Gordon for a draft pick without a very compelling reason. Toppin is the only other option that looks ready to step right in and help a team win games, but the entire argument for trading Gordon is roster balance... right?

I'm not saying that trading Gordon, with an eye towards the future, is the wrong thing to do, but I am saying that it would make zero sense if you look at everything this front office has done since they took charge. If we aren't guaranteed to get Edwards, or perhaps Ball, then it is very difficult to justify this trade.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#629 » by Knightro » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:26 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:I don’t think Lamelo > Fultz is a question we would be asking in that scenario. The question would be whether or not Lamelo + Fultz is a backcourt we want to build around.

Given his unique size and combination of shooting / passing I can see Lamelo as a target for WeHam.

Fultz + Lamelo + Isaac could be a very intriguing modern day trio. If Chuma truly is a starting caliber 3&D role player then this is a very nice young core; even more so if Bamba keeps improving.

Fultz, MCW
Lamelo, Ross
Chuma, Wes
Isaac, Chief
Vuc, Bamba


Man...

You'd have to be really optimistic about one of Fultz or Ball developing into a competent perimeter shooter to be able pair them together and have a functional offense.

Feels like it may be an either or scenario.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#630 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:38 pm

Knightro wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I don’t think Lamelo > Fultz is a question we would be asking in that scenario. The question would be whether or not Lamelo + Fultz is a backcourt we want to build around.

Given his unique size and combination of shooting / passing I can see Lamelo as a target for WeHam.

Fultz + Lamelo + Isaac could be a very intriguing modern day trio. If Chuma truly is a starting caliber 3&D role player then this is a very nice young core; even more so if Bamba keeps improving.

Fultz, MCW
Lamelo, Ross
Chuma, Wes
Isaac, Chief
Vuc, Bamba


Man...

You'd have to be really optimistic about one of Fultz or Ball developing into a competent perimeter shooter to be able pair them together and have a functional offense.

Feels like it may be an either or scenario.


I haven’t seen international games but based on the many scouting reports Lemelo is a very accomplished shooter out to the NBA 3-pt line.

It seems almost everyone on this board wants to believe that Lamelo and Lonzo are the same player.

Go back to the scoring reports on Lonzo. They destroyed his shooting mechanics and his lack of ability to get his own shot. That turned out to be the case.

Lamelo is receiving much better grades on his shooting. I haven’t seen him play myself but I like what I’m reading.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#631 » by Magic#1 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:51 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Knightro wrote:
cedric76 wrote:I d do that trade any days of the Week

Johnson (Exp) + Min 1st for AG + our 2020 1st + our 2020 2nd

Resign Wes and MCW on the cheap

Draft BPA

Fultz, Mcw
Evan(Exp),Ross,wes
Ennis,Chuma,JI,Wes
JI,Aminu,Johnson(EXP)
Vuc/Bamba/Birch (Exp)


I'm all for adding good, young, cost-controlled talent. But if it's anyone but Edwards, the Magic would have to make some difficult roster decisions.

Is LaMelo Ball going to end up a better pro than Markelle Fultz?

Is James Wiseman better than Mo Bamba or Nikola Vucevic?

Edwards is the only easy fit. He plugs right into the starting SG slot when Fournier leaves.

Ball, Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija if you don't think he can play the 3, Haliburton -- are any of these kids going to end up being better than the players the Magic already have?

If so, great! Pick them and figure out how to alleviate the roster crunch with trades.

If not? Then it gets tricky.


This.

I think the most talented player in the draft is Wiseman. He has good size and athleticism and he gets up and down the floor really easily. He has some touch around the basket and from mid-range and his shot looks like it will be useful. He was dominant in his limited run and he looks like he has so much room for improvement. I think he'd fit really well alongside Fultz, but how could we even entertain taking him? He is going to have to play right away and we don't have the minutes for it. I'd be skeptical about his fit with either of Vucevic or Bamba on the roster. With both...? The reactions on draft night would be hilarious.

Edwards is everything you want physically and I love his personality. He'd make a lot of sense for us even though I expect he is going to get off to a rough start in the NBA. If you watch his highlights, he looks phenomenal, but nothing jumps off the page statistically. If he hasn't mastered the collegiate level, the adjustment to the NBA is going to be rough. I could understand moving Gordon for him though, because the upside is that high and we are that desperate for his skill set.

I could also understand moving Gordon for Ball. I think he is overhyped, but he is a playmaking guard and we need that. I don't think he fits with Fultz at all, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting him as I'm not that bullish on Fultz. I need to see a lot more from Fultz before I'd be willing to let his fit alongside other players influence my roster decisions.

Nobody else is worth giving up Gordon for. I'm not saying that other players won't provide more long-term value than Gordon, but this front office has made some short-sighted decisions in an effort to compete for the playoffs and it wouldn't make any sense to trade Gordon for a draft pick without a very compelling reason. Toppin is the only other option that looks ready to step right in and help a team win games, but the entire argument for trading Gordon is roster balance... right?

I'm not saying that trading Gordon, with an eye towards the future, is the wrong thing to do, but I am saying that it would make zero sense if you look at everything this front office has done since they took charge. If we aren't guaranteed to get Edwards, or perhaps Ball, then it is very difficult to justify this trade.


I'm not sold on Ball for us. He's too ball dominant and Fultz has shown how effective he can be with the ball. But if we could get Edwards for a package involving Gordon, we have to do that. AG may still get a lot better, but Edwards has the potential to be "that guy." He definitely is not a can't miss prospect, but we need to take a gamble and he is the only player I see really capable of helping us take the next step in this class. If GS gets the No. 1 pick or is in a position to take Edwards, I wonder if they would be interested in Vooch or Bamba and a package for the pick. They need a center badly. Do we have to wait until Fournier opts in for him to be trade eligible?
Fultz
Edwards
Chuma/AG
JI
Vooch/Bamba

At least a lineup like that has potential to grow into something.
Edwards
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#632 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:35 pm

Magic#1 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I'm all for adding good, young, cost-controlled talent. But if it's anyone but Edwards, the Magic would have to make some difficult roster decisions.

Is LaMelo Ball going to end up a better pro than Markelle Fultz?

Is James Wiseman better than Mo Bamba or Nikola Vucevic?

Edwards is the only easy fit. He plugs right into the starting SG slot when Fournier leaves.

Ball, Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija if you don't think he can play the 3, Haliburton -- are any of these kids going to end up being better than the players the Magic already have?

If so, great! Pick them and figure out how to alleviate the roster crunch with trades.

If not? Then it gets tricky.


This.

I think the most talented player in the draft is Wiseman. He has good size and athleticism and he gets up and down the floor really easily. He has some touch around the basket and from mid-range and his shot looks like it will be useful. He was dominant in his limited run and he looks like he has so much room for improvement. I think he'd fit really well alongside Fultz, but how could we even entertain taking him? He is going to have to play right away and we don't have the minutes for it. I'd be skeptical about his fit with either of Vucevic or Bamba on the roster. With both...? The reactions on draft night would be hilarious.

Edwards is everything you want physically and I love his personality. He'd make a lot of sense for us even though I expect he is going to get off to a rough start in the NBA. If you watch his highlights, he looks phenomenal, but nothing jumps off the page statistically. If he hasn't mastered the collegiate level, the adjustment to the NBA is going to be rough. I could understand moving Gordon for him though, because the upside is that high and we are that desperate for his skill set.

I could also understand moving Gordon for Ball. I think he is overhyped, but he is a playmaking guard and we need that. I don't think he fits with Fultz at all, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting him as I'm not that bullish on Fultz. I need to see a lot more from Fultz before I'd be willing to let his fit alongside other players influence my roster decisions.

Nobody else is worth giving up Gordon for. I'm not saying that other players won't provide more long-term value than Gordon, but this front office has made some short-sighted decisions in an effort to compete for the playoffs and it wouldn't make any sense to trade Gordon for a draft pick without a very compelling reason. Toppin is the only other option that looks ready to step right in and help a team win games, but the entire argument for trading Gordon is roster balance... right?

I'm not saying that trading Gordon, with an eye towards the future, is the wrong thing to do, but I am saying that it would make zero sense if you look at everything this front office has done since they took charge. If we aren't guaranteed to get Edwards, or perhaps Ball, then it is very difficult to justify this trade.


I'm not sold on Ball for us. He's too ball dominant and Fultz has shown how effective he can be with the ball. But if we could get Edwards for a package involving Gordon, we have to do that. AG may still get a lot better, but Edwards has the potential to be "that guy." He definitely is not a can't miss prospect, but we need to take a gamble and he is the only player I see really capable of helping us take the next step in this class. If GS gets the No. 1 pick or is in a position to take Edwards, I wonder if they would be interested in Vooch or Bamba and a package for the pick. They need a center badly. Do we have to wait until Fournier opts in for him to be trade eligible?
Fultz
Edwards
Chuma/AG
JI
Vooch/Bamba

At least a lineup like that has potential to grow into something.
Edwards



You aren’t getting the #1 overall pick straight up for that deal. We have to take back the Wiggins contract.

We really only have two options:

1) Vuc for Wiggins + pick swap

2) AG + Bamba for Wiggins + pick swap

There might be a 3rd depending on rules regarding trade eligibility of Evan. I don’t know what happens with him if he opts in. Can he be traded on draft night? I don’t think so, but if so you can swap him for AG in option 2.

With Edwards on a rookie deal, Vuc or AG gone and Evan soon gone we could survive Wiggins’ contract. While he has never lived up to #1 overall hype, he is a productive player who fills some holes in our roster.

I wouldn’t be upset at this deal. I also wouldn’t be upset if we said no ...
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#633 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:57 pm

Minnesota could really use AG and might be willing to swap picks and flip Johnson for AG.

Then if Fournier opts in, Fournier and Johnson both expiring for CP3.

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#634 » by Magic#1 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:59 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
Magic#1 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
This.

I think the most talented player in the draft is Wiseman. He has good size and athleticism and he gets up and down the floor really easily. He has some touch around the basket and from mid-range and his shot looks like it will be useful. He was dominant in his limited run and he looks like he has so much room for improvement. I think he'd fit really well alongside Fultz, but how could we even entertain taking him? He is going to have to play right away and we don't have the minutes for it. I'd be skeptical about his fit with either of Vucevic or Bamba on the roster. With both...? The reactions on draft night would be hilarious.

Edwards is everything you want physically and I love his personality. He'd make a lot of sense for us even though I expect he is going to get off to a rough start in the NBA. If you watch his highlights, he looks phenomenal, but nothing jumps off the page statistically. If he hasn't mastered the collegiate level, the adjustment to the NBA is going to be rough. I could understand moving Gordon for him though, because the upside is that high and we are that desperate for his skill set.

I could also understand moving Gordon for Ball. I think he is overhyped, but he is a playmaking guard and we need that. I don't think he fits with Fultz at all, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from drafting him as I'm not that bullish on Fultz. I need to see a lot more from Fultz before I'd be willing to let his fit alongside other players influence my roster decisions.

Nobody else is worth giving up Gordon for. I'm not saying that other players won't provide more long-term value than Gordon, but this front office has made some short-sighted decisions in an effort to compete for the playoffs and it wouldn't make any sense to trade Gordon for a draft pick without a very compelling reason. Toppin is the only other option that looks ready to step right in and help a team win games, but the entire argument for trading Gordon is roster balance... right?

I'm not saying that trading Gordon, with an eye towards the future, is the wrong thing to do, but I am saying that it would make zero sense if you look at everything this front office has done since they took charge. If we aren't guaranteed to get Edwards, or perhaps Ball, then it is very difficult to justify this trade.


I'm not sold on Ball for us. He's too ball dominant and Fultz has shown how effective he can be with the ball. But if we could get Edwards for a package involving Gordon, we have to do that. AG may still get a lot better, but Edwards has the potential to be "that guy." He definitely is not a can't miss prospect, but we need to take a gamble and he is the only player I see really capable of helping us take the next step in this class. If GS gets the No. 1 pick or is in a position to take Edwards, I wonder if they would be interested in Vooch or Bamba and a package for the pick. They need a center badly. Do we have to wait until Fournier opts in for him to be trade eligible?
Fultz
Edwards
Chuma/AG
JI
Vooch/Bamba

At least a lineup like that has potential to grow into something.
Edwards



You aren’t getting the #1 overall pick straight up for that deal. We have to take back the Wiggins contract.

We really only have two options:

1) Vuc for Wiggins + pick swap

2) AG + Bamba for Wiggins + pick swap

There might be a 3rd depending on rules regarding trade eligibility of Evan. I don’t know what happens with him if he opts in. Can he be traded on draft night? I don’t think so, but if so you can swap him for AG in option 2.

With Edwards on a rookie deal, Vuc or AG gone and Evan soon gone we could survive Wiggins’ contract. While he has never lived up to #1 overall hype, he is a productive player who fills some holes in our roster.

I wouldn’t be upset at this deal. I also wouldn’t be upset if we said no ...


I wouldn't mind taking on Wiggins at all. He is tied up for just three more years, and if we resign most of our young guns, we wouldn't have a lot of room anyway. While I'm guessing GS isn't fully sold on Wiggins if they're really thinking about Edwards, but would they give up on Wiggins that quickly? He's potentially a very good third option for them. They have a huge TPE so they don't have to get equal salary back. Maybe they would look to deal him, but I would think we'd have to give up some future picks at the very least to entice them. I get Wiggins has really underdeveloped from what people expected, but he's still a legit 20 point per night guy. Either one of those deals plus future picks would be a great deal for us and while Vooch is one of the more talented overall bigs in the league and would do great for a team like GS, trading down 12-14 spots in any draft for Vooch seems unrealistic to me. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#635 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:13 pm

Magic#1 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Magic#1 wrote:
I'm not sold on Ball for us. He's too ball dominant and Fultz has shown how effective he can be with the ball. But if we could get Edwards for a package involving Gordon, we have to do that. AG may still get a lot better, but Edwards has the potential to be "that guy." He definitely is not a can't miss prospect, but we need to take a gamble and he is the only player I see really capable of helping us take the next step in this class. If GS gets the No. 1 pick or is in a position to take Edwards, I wonder if they would be interested in Vooch or Bamba and a package for the pick. They need a center badly. Do we have to wait until Fournier opts in for him to be trade eligible?
Fultz
Edwards
Chuma/AG
JI
Vooch/Bamba

At least a lineup like that has potential to grow into something.
Edwards



You aren’t getting the #1 overall pick straight up for that deal. We have to take back the Wiggins contract.

We really only have two options:

1) Vuc for Wiggins + pick swap

2) AG + Bamba for Wiggins + pick swap

There might be a 3rd depending on rules regarding trade eligibility of Evan. I don’t know what happens with him if he opts in. Can he be traded on draft night? I don’t think so, but if so you can swap him for AG in option 2.

With Edwards on a rookie deal, Vuc or AG gone and Evan soon gone we could survive Wiggins’ contract. While he has never lived up to #1 overall hype, he is a productive player who fills some holes in our roster.

I wouldn’t be upset at this deal. I also wouldn’t be upset if we said no ...


I wouldn't mind taking on Wiggins at all. He is tied up for just three more years, and if we resign most of our young guns, we wouldn't have a lot of room anyway. While I'm guessing GS isn't fully sold on Wiggins if they're really thinking about Edwards, but would they give up on Wiggins that quickly? He's potentially a very good third option for them. They have a huge TPE so they don't have to get equal salary back. Maybe they would look to deal him, but I would think we'd have to give up some future picks at the very least to entice them. I get Wiggins has really underdeveloped from what people expected, but he's still a legit 20 point per night guy. Either one of those deals plus future picks would be a great deal for us and while Vooch is one of the more talented overall bigs in the league and would do great for a team like GS, trading down 12-14 spots in any draft for Vooch seems unrealistic to me. Maybe I'm wrong.
I doubt GS trades Wiggins.

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#636 » by Mattya » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:04 am

basketballRob wrote:Minnesota could really use AG and might be willing to swap picks and flip Johnson for AG.

Then if Fournier opts in, Fournier and Johnson both expiring for CP3.

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I highly doubt that value gets it done for Minnesota. I think they might take the Brooklyn pick to add win now pieces, but I think they are still trying to add high draft picks to be able to package for another of the KAT and DLo group friendship.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#637 » by Knightro » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:24 am

MagicFan101 wrote:I haven’t seen international games but based on the many scouting reports Lemelo is a very accomplished shooter out to the NBA 3-pt line.

It seems almost everyone on this board wants to believe that Lamelo and Lonzo are the same player.

Go back to the scoring reports on Lonzo. They destroyed his shooting mechanics and his lack of ability to get his own shot. That turned out to be the case.

Lamelo is receiving much better grades on his shooting. I haven’t seen him play myself but I like what I’m reading.


Not a huge sample size, but LaMelo was 20-80 (25%) from the three point line in 12 games in Australia.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#638 » by jezzerinho » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:34 am

LaMelo would be a wasted pick because there's no way in hell he will resign with ORL and there's a very good chance his old man will be machinating to get him moved somewhere higher profile right off the bat.

You'll spend 2 years developing him and get maybe 2 yrs of starter mins before he's gone.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#639 » by cedric76 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:06 am

basketballRob wrote:Minnesota could really use AG and might be willing to swap picks and flip Johnson for AG.

Then if Fournier opts in, Fournier and Johnson both expiring for CP3.

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CP3, lol, come on man

How can you complain about Weham when you post things like that?

No vision at all
Otto porter for AG+DJ+2nd

Fultz. Mcw
Evan. Ross. Iwundu
Chuma. Aminu.. Ennis
Isaac. Aminu
Vuc. Mo. Birch
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#640 » by PrimeThyme » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:36 pm

I don't think I've been this disinterested in a draft since the year Dipo came out. There is not a single player I would feel comfortable giving up significant value to move up and draft. I love Vassell but If he's going to go in the top 8 then so be it. Before the season ended he was barely a first-rounder but this draft is so weak that people are having to talk themselves into players.

Wiseman is the best player in my eyes but with our frontcourt, it would be unrealistic to move up and draft him. Lamelo is going to be a massive headache for whoever drafts him. The father is a serious issue and has influence over his kids. He has stated his desire many many times to have his kids all playing on the same team and it's something as a small market team I wouldn't even bother with.

If he had surefire All-star written all over him, maybe. But I'm still seeing sixth man in his future. His skillset hasn't sold me yet.
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