ImageImageImageImage

Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

Moderators: UCFJayBird, Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami

Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#861 » by Skin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:34 am

tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


I like Markelle Fultz as the long-term starter at point and even if you do, there are some good point guard options in this Draft. It would not hurt to get even a backup in The Draft.

You cannot limit yourself to just swings although there are some good options in this Draft.

I do like this Draft and BPA outside of a Center LOL is the way to go here.

its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots

Yeah I can imagine this team drafting a SG and then sitting him for 3 years behind Fournier and Ross until they "show it in practice".
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 2,590
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
     

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#862 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:50 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


I like Markelle Fultz as the long-term starter at point and even if you do, there are some good point guard options in this Draft. It would not hurt to get even a backup in The Draft.

You cannot limit yourself to just swings although there are some good options in this Draft.

I do like this Draft and BPA outside of a Center LOL is the way to go here.

its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots


Sadly this FO thinks otherwise.
LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC... CAN’T SHOOT
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 2,679
And1: 788
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#863 » by The Effect » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:07 pm

Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
I like Markelle Fultz as the long-term starter at point and even if you do, there are some good point guard options in this Draft. It would not hurt to get even a backup in The Draft.

You cannot limit yourself to just swings although there are some good options in this Draft.

I do like this Draft and BPA outside of a Center LOL is the way to go here.

its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots

Yeah I can imagine this team drafting a SG and then sitting him for 3 years behind Fournier and Ross until they "show it in practice".


I dont get why people keep saying this

isaac started games as a rookie, iwundu played and started some games

Its like i keep saying, its not the coaches or the situation, its bamba! Hes lazy, out of shape and unmotivated to go on top of not having nba skills. He was drafted solely for defensive potential and length, thats it. He had the same complaints about him coming out of college. Dont blame CLifford, this is a bamba issue
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#864 » by Skin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:43 pm

The Effect wrote:
Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots

Yeah I can imagine this team drafting a SG and then sitting him for 3 years behind Fournier and Ross until they "show it in practice".


I dont get why people keep saying this

isaac started games as a rookie, iwundu played and started some games

Its like i keep saying, its not the coaches or the situation, its bamba! Hes lazy, out of shape and unmotivated to go on top of not having nba skills. He was drafted solely for defensive potential and length, thats it. He had the same complaints about him coming out of college. Dont blame CLifford, this is a bamba issue

Iwundu was drafted after his college Senior year. Much farther along in his development. Isaac was eased into a starting situation but that happened because between Fournier and Gordon, we had the flexibility for him to find starting minutes. That was not the same situation as Vucevic and Bamba. I don't get why people don't see this.

My personal complaint is not that Bamba didn't start as a rookie. My complaint is that we didn't find a way to turn Vucevic into a trade asset and instead blocked Bamba's path to playing time by making Vuc our new highest paid player...which questions the path of succession for Bamba. Now it's hard to see him starting even in his 3rd year next season because that will only be Vuc's second year into his new contract. I'm hoping Vuc gets traded this offseason, but I have doubts.

Coach needs to find a way for him to get more involved in the Magic's game plan. If Bamba turns out to be a bust that will be a huge hit against WeHam. He's not lazy. Lazy is a mentality and Bamba proved that he's committed to doing everything he can to be ready when his name is called. He needs time to adjust to his new weight. He's figuring his new strengths and weaknesses with each minute of playing time. It's way to early to write him off.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 7,811
And1: 8,642
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#865 » by Knightro » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:09 pm

Skin wrote:Iwundu was drafted after his college Senior year. Much farther along in his development. Isaac was eased into a starting situation but that happened because between Fournier and Gordon, we had the flexibility for him to find starting minutes. That was not the same situation as Vucevic and Bamba. I don't get why people don't see this.

My personal complaint is not that Bamba didn't start as a rookie. My complaint is that we didn't find a way to turn Vucevic into a trade asset and instead blocked Bamba's path to playing time by making Vuc our new highest paid player...which questions the path of succession for Bamba. Now it's hard to see him starting even in his 3rd year next season because that will only be Vuc's second year into his new contract. I'm hoping Vuc gets traded this offseason, but I have doubts.

Coach needs to find a way for him to get more involved in the Magic's game plan. If Bamba turns out to be a bust that will be a huge hit against WeHam. He's not lazy. Lazy is a mentality and Bamba proved that he's committed to doing everything he can to be ready when his name is called. He needs time to adjust to his new weight. He's figuring his new strengths and weaknesses with each minute of playing time. It's way to early to write him off.


I agree. The issue wasn't drafting Bamba. I think everyone understood he was raw and needed some time to develop both his body and his overall skill set, but that he had a very large upside.

The issue continues to be the fact the Magic drafted a player 6th overall who can only play one position and then after they made that pick decided to resign another player at that same position for 4 years, 100M. It's just poor roster and asset management.

Even if Bamba was further along in his development than he's showed, there still wouldn't be a path for more playing time with this roster and coaching staff.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,049
And1: 8,768
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#866 » by Bensational » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:01 pm

I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.

People have really forgotten how absolutely putrid Vuc was at defense before Clifford came along. He was a turnstile at the rim and his strongest move was throwing the ball at the stanchion like he cared. It took him 7 years and an impending new contract for Vuc to find that motivation. Bamba, despite his warts, is well ahead of where Vuc was at the same age, by most metrics. So Bamba is on the right track. He will be fine in the end.

I'm dubious that he'll be happy to stay here long term though. He's a smart kid, and if WeHam and Cliff keep him riding the pine and limiting his exposure in the lead up to him becoming a RFA and suppressing his value on the market, Bamba will take the option and then leave is for nothing. Book it. The kid is too smart to be strung along.
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#867 » by Skin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:18 pm

Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.

People have really forgotten how absolutely putrid Vuc was at defense before Clifford came along. He was a turnstile at the rim and his strongest move was throwing the ball at the stanchion like he cared. It took him 7 years and an impending new contract for Vuc to find that motivation. Bamba, despite his warts, is well ahead of where Vuc was at the same age, by most metrics. So Bamba is on the right track. He will be fine in the end.

I'm dubious that he'll be happy to stay here long term though. He's a smart kid, and if WeHam and Cliff keep him riding the pine and limiting his exposure in the lead up to him becoming a RFA and suppressing his value on the market, Bamba will take the option and then leave is for nothing. Book it. The kid is too smart to be strung along.

Will probably be the next in the long line of Magic Centers to go onto situations they are better appreciated elsewhere...

Shaq, Big Ben, Gortat, D12, Dedmon... Bamba.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 2,590
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
     

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#868 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:39 pm

Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.

People have really forgotten how absolutely putrid Vuc was at defense before Clifford came along. He was a turnstile at the rim and his strongest move was throwing the ball at the stanchion like he cared. It took him 7 years and an impending new contract for Vuc to find that motivation. Bamba, despite his warts, is well ahead of where Vuc was at the same age, by most metrics. So Bamba is on the right track. He will be fine in the end.

I'm dubious that he'll be happy to stay here long term though. He's a smart kid, and if WeHam and Cliff keep him riding the pine and limiting his exposure in the lead up to him becoming a RFA and suppressing his value on the market, Bamba will take the option and then leave is for nothing. Book it. The kid is too smart to be strung along.


I also wonder how frustrated he is with his role right now and how that’s affecting his mindset. When you see other guys like Bol Bol get free reign and you’re barely getting 8 minutes has to be hard. Then when you get run it’s with 4 G leaguers or maybe 3 & TRoss or a lineup without a proper PG.

Have a feeling if he doesn’t get run soon or next year he’s going to sit back chill and leave the first chance he gets.
LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC... CAN’T SHOOT
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 29,680
And1: 10,633
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#869 » by tiderulz » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:31 am

The Effect wrote:
Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots

Yeah I can imagine this team drafting a SG and then sitting him for 3 years behind Fournier and Ross until they "show it in practice".


I dont get why people keep saying this

isaac started games as a rookie, iwundu played and started some games

Its like i keep saying, its not the coaches or the situation, its bamba! Hes lazy, out of shape and unmotivated to go on top of not having nba skills. He was drafted solely for defensive potential and length, thats it. He had the same complaints about him coming out of college. Dont blame CLifford, this is a bamba issue

yeah, im not blaming anyone for Bamba except Bamba.
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 2,679
And1: 788
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#870 » by The Effect » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:15 am

Skin wrote:[
My personal complaint is not that Bamba didn't start as a rookie. My complaint is that we didn't find a way to turn Vucevic into a trade asset and instead blocked Bamba's path to playing time by making Vuc our new highest paid player...which questions the path of succession for Bamba. Now it's hard to see him starting even in his 3rd year next season because that will only be Vuc's second year into his new contract. I'm hoping Vuc gets traded this offseason, but I have doubts.


What if the coaches and WeHam got him, then found out he was lazy, was 2 years away from being 2 years away and realized he wasnt the answer and would be a mistake to jettison Vuc for him?
To me thats the most logical explanation for the vuc extension. People can trash talk vuc, but he was the best player on a team that made the playoffs for the first time in years, no way you let him leave for a guy like bamba, especially when its painfully obvious that hes no where near real and unless he changes his attitude, wont be ready til his 2nd contract at the earliest
Coach needs to find a way for him to get more involved in the Magic's game plan. If Bamba turns out to be a bust that will be a huge hit against WeHam. He's not lazy. Lazy is a mentality and Bamba proved that he's committed to doing everything he can to be ready when his name is called. He needs time to adjust to his new weight. He's figuring his new strengths and weaknesses with each minute of playing time. It's way to early to write him off.


Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.


I hate to say it, but you know, some times GMs miss on players, even at the top of the draft. Dont forget that hammond is the same guy who drafted Thon Maker. Weltman was a top guy in Toronto when they used #9 on Poetl and are the team that drafted the original "2 years away from being 2 years away". And CLifford was the HC when the hornets drafted Noah Vonleh.... But they are also the guys who draft Giannis and Siakem. So they swing for the fences and they win some, they lose some. Im betting 2 years in, WeHam are chalking up Bamba as a miss.

I keep going back to it, but i dont think its his physical skill, i think its his mentality. You can say hes not lazy, but everything he does on the court says otherwise. He doesnt hustle, he jogs back and forth, and only sprints when he has a chance at a sportscenter play. He cares more about highlights than fundamentals. Clearly the coaches see it, hell most here saw it when he was at texas and criticized him for it, and damn if it didnt carry over to the NBA. I wish i was wrong about him, and was really excited about him early on (wasnt a big fan of his in college, but convinced myself he would be good after realizing that there was no way we would pass if he was there), and his first game in the NBA he looked like a future superstar, but that first game might of been his best game.

I hope im wrong, id love for bamba to suddenly turn it on, get that killer attitude and become the next KG, but as of right now, i dont see it and worried hes more likely to be Noah Vonleh than Siakem (wont even say Giannis, thats not fair to anyone)
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 11,395
And1: 4,711
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#871 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:27 am

Jazz fan here. It looks like Orlando will be drafting at #16 or #17 this year (since the wheels fell off for the Nets and Portland or NOLA might sneak in to the post season). I'd be looking at Kira Lewis Jr. if I were the Magic. He'd be a bonafide starting PG, and his speed and scoring ability should be an improvement over Augustin and Fultz. I'd also be looking at Theo Maledon as a versatile combo guard who could turn out similar to Nickeil Alexander-Walker.
User avatar
PrimeThyme
General Manager
Posts: 8,197
And1: 10,535
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#872 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:01 am

While I'm far from a Vuc "fan" and wish he didn't block Bamba's path to more minutes, I've come to realize that the player who I actually have the biggest problem with is Evan. I want him off this team so badly. I don't think his role on this team is valuable and I could name at least 20 SG"s off the top of my head (not including multiple players in this draft) I'd rather have in his place.

The last 3 games before the lockdown where Evan didn't play and we coincidentally had 3 of the best offensive performances of the season were some of the most enjoyable games Ive watched from this team in a while. We have to move on.
Image
zaymon
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 1,110
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#873 » by zaymon » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:30 am

PrimeThyme wrote:While I'm far from a Vuc "fan" and wish he didn't block Bamba's path to more minutes, I've come to realize that the player who I actually have the biggest problem with is Evan. I want him off this team so badly. I don't think his role on this team is valuable and I could name at least 20 SG"s off the top of my head (not including multiple players in this draft) I'd rather have in his place.

The last 3 games before the lockdown where Evan didn't play and we coincidentally had 3 of the best offensive performances of the season were some of the most enjoyable games Ive watched from this team in a while. We have to move on.

Any reasonable ones beyond Beal, Booker, George Harden and Holiday ? Becouse i would rather have Giannis than Isaac and it doeant mean anything
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#874 » by Skin » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:37 am

PrimeThyme wrote:While I'm far from a Vuc "fan" and wish he didn't block Bamba's path to more minutes, I've come to realize that the player who I actually have the biggest problem with is Evan. I want him off this team so badly. I don't think his role on this team is valuable and I could name at least 20 SG"s off the top of my head (not including multiple players in this draft) I'd rather have in his place.

The last 3 games before the lockdown where Evan didn't play and we coincidentally had 3 of the best offensive performances of the season were some of the most enjoyable games Ive watched from this team in a while. We have to move on.

He's definitely our #1 problem. It's the reason why SG is being so heavily scoured in the draft for me. Praying he opts out, but doubt it.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#875 » by Skin » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:42 am

The Effect wrote:
Skin wrote:[
My personal complaint is not that Bamba didn't start as a rookie. My complaint is that we didn't find a way to turn Vucevic into a trade asset and instead blocked Bamba's path to playing time by making Vuc our new highest paid player...which questions the path of succession for Bamba. Now it's hard to see him starting even in his 3rd year next season because that will only be Vuc's second year into his new contract. I'm hoping Vuc gets traded this offseason, but I have doubts.


What if the coaches and WeHam got him, then found out he was lazy, was 2 years away from being 2 years away and realized he wasnt the answer and would be a mistake to jettison Vuc for him?
To me thats the most logical explanation for the vuc extension. People can trash talk vuc, but he was the best player on a team that made the playoffs for the first time in years, no way you let him leave for a guy like bamba, especially when its painfully obvious that hes no where near real and unless he changes his attitude, wont be ready til his 2nd contract at the earliest
Coach needs to find a way for him to get more involved in the Magic's game plan. If Bamba turns out to be a bust that will be a huge hit against WeHam. He's not lazy. Lazy is a mentality and Bamba proved that he's committed to doing everything he can to be ready when his name is called. He needs time to adjust to his new weight. He's figuring his new strengths and weaknesses with each minute of playing time. It's way to early to write him off.


Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.


I hate to say it, but you know, some times GMs miss on players, even at the top of the draft. Dont forget that hammond is the same guy who drafted Thon Maker. Weltman was a top guy in Toronto when they used #9 on Poetl and are the team that drafted the original "2 years away from being 2 years away". And CLifford was the HC when the hornets drafted Noah Vonleh.... But they are also the guys who draft Giannis and Siakem. So they swing for the fences and they win some, they lose some. Im betting 2 years in, WeHam are chalking up Bamba as a miss.

I keep going back to it, but i dont think its his physical skill, i think its his mentality. You can say hes not lazy, but everything he does on the court says otherwise. He doesnt hustle, he jogs back and forth, and only sprints when he has a chance at a sportscenter play. He cares more about highlights than fundamentals. Clearly the coaches see it, hell most here saw it when he was at texas and criticized him for it, and damn if it didnt carry over to the NBA. I wish i was wrong about him, and was really excited about him early on (wasnt a big fan of his in college, but convinced myself he would be good after realizing that there was no way we would pass if he was there), and his first game in the NBA he looked like a future superstar, but that first game might of been his best game.

I hope im wrong, id love for bamba to suddenly turn it on, get that killer attitude and become the next KG, but as of right now, i dont see it and worried hes more likely to be Noah Vonleh than Siakem (wont even say Giannis, thats not fair to anyone)

Why would somebody who works so hard on his body (like top 3 biggest transformations during corona) ever be called lazy? Why would he go through all that trouble (like waking up in the middle of the night to eat) kind of trouble... just to purposely play with no desire when he has limited minutes? Does that sound like a reasonable analysis?

Feels like your take on him is negative because it aligns with your judgements of him as a prospect... and you'd rather prefer him to fail because that how you projected him. So you ding him for every flaw in every bad play in every game. That's cool. That's your prerogative. That's your right. But the bias is clear.

Vuc is a really good player. But he's not a leader. He's not a winner. He's a good guy on a bad team. As a 3rd or 4th option on a contender, he'd fit perfectly. As the #1 option, that's a dead end team that needs to rebuild. The Spurs or Mavs would be so perfect for him, imo.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 2,679
And1: 788
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#876 » by The Effect » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:56 pm

Skin wrote:
The Effect wrote:
Skin wrote:[
My personal complaint is not that Bamba didn't start as a rookie. My complaint is that we didn't find a way to turn Vucevic into a trade asset and instead blocked Bamba's path to playing time by making Vuc our new highest paid player...which questions the path of succession for Bamba. Now it's hard to see him starting even in his 3rd year next season because that will only be Vuc's second year into his new contract. I'm hoping Vuc gets traded this offseason, but I have doubts.


What if the coaches and WeHam got him, then found out he was lazy, was 2 years away from being 2 years away and realized he wasnt the answer and would be a mistake to jettison Vuc for him?
To me thats the most logical explanation for the vuc extension. People can trash talk vuc, but he was the best player on a team that made the playoffs for the first time in years, no way you let him leave for a guy like bamba, especially when its painfully obvious that hes no where near real and unless he changes his attitude, wont be ready til his 2nd contract at the earliest
Coach needs to find a way for him to get more involved in the Magic's game plan. If Bamba turns out to be a bust that will be a huge hit against WeHam. He's not lazy. Lazy is a mentality and Bamba proved that he's committed to doing everything he can to be ready when his name is called. He needs time to adjust to his new weight. He's figuring his new strengths and weaknesses with each minute of playing time. It's way to early to write him off.


Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.


I hate to say it, but you know, some times GMs miss on players, even at the top of the draft. Dont forget that hammond is the same guy who drafted Thon Maker. Weltman was a top guy in Toronto when they used #9 on Poetl and are the team that drafted the original "2 years away from being 2 years away". And CLifford was the HC when the hornets drafted Noah Vonleh.... But they are also the guys who draft Giannis and Siakem. So they swing for the fences and they win some, they lose some. Im betting 2 years in, WeHam are chalking up Bamba as a miss.

I keep going back to it, but i dont think its his physical skill, i think its his mentality. You can say hes not lazy, but everything he does on the court says otherwise. He doesnt hustle, he jogs back and forth, and only sprints when he has a chance at a sportscenter play. He cares more about highlights than fundamentals. Clearly the coaches see it, hell most here saw it when he was at texas and criticized him for it, and damn if it didnt carry over to the NBA. I wish i was wrong about him, and was really excited about him early on (wasnt a big fan of his in college, but convinced myself he would be good after realizing that there was no way we would pass if he was there), and his first game in the NBA he looked like a future superstar, but that first game might of been his best game.

I hope im wrong, id love for bamba to suddenly turn it on, get that killer attitude and become the next KG, but as of right now, i dont see it and worried hes more likely to be Noah Vonleh than Siakem (wont even say Giannis, thats not fair to anyone)

Why would somebody who works so hard on his body (like top 3 biggest transformations during corona) ever be called lazy? Why would he go through all that trouble (like waking up in the middle of the night to eat) kind of trouble... just to purposely play with no desire when he has limited minutes? Does that sound like a reasonable analysis?

Feels like your take on him is negative because it aligns with your judgements of him as a prospect... and you'd rather prefer him to fail because that how you projected him. So you ding him for every flaw in every bad play in every game. That's cool. That's your prerogative. That's your right. But the bias is clear.

Vuc is a really good player. But he's not a leader. He's not a winner. He's a good guy on a bad team. As a 3rd or 4th option on a contender, he'd fit perfectly. As the #1 option, that's a dead end team that needs to rebuild. The Spurs or Mavs would be so perfect for him, imo.

Clearly one of us is viewing Bamba with pre-draft bias, and its not me.
Youre basing your opinions of him on predraft hype ONLY rather than anything hes done in the nba, because to this point he hasnt show anything except that he has a long wingspan.

im more than willing to change my mind on players based on my predraft opinions, case in point, aaron gordon. I hated him in college, partially because im sdsu fan and arizona knocked us out that year, but also because i thought he was another guy who drafted because of athletic ability and defensive potential with no offense game.....Difference? Hes shown he can play in the NBA and isnt just trying to live of being athletic, hes clearly put the work in, improved, impressed the coaches and become a real NBA starter. Bamba has done none of that. Hes the guy who 2 years in has all the same knocks about him in the NBA that he did in college, except now he has added weight
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 2,679
And1: 788
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#877 » by The Effect » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:05 pm

zaymon wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:While I'm far from a Vuc "fan" and wish he didn't block Bamba's path to more minutes, I've come to realize that the player who I actually have the biggest problem with is Evan. I want him off this team so badly. I don't think his role on this team is valuable and I could name at least 20 SG"s off the top of my head (not including multiple players in this draft) I'd rather have in his place.

The last 3 games before the lockdown where Evan didn't play and we coincidentally had 3 of the best offensive performances of the season were some of the most enjoyable games Ive watched from this team in a while. We have to move on.

Any reasonable ones beyond Beal, Booker, George Harden and Holiday ? Becouse i would rather have Giannis than Isaac and it doeant mean anything


It sucks, coming into this season, i actually liked evan and was hoping with improved play from the PG position (fultz vs DJ), that he would play more into the system and would be more team ball, but it seems hes just trying to get his payday and so he went even more to buddyball with Vuc this year. Hopefully this is the last stretch of games for him on the magic

I dont know that will be able to add a top 10-15SG this year unless we are trading our pick+AG. While i (unfortunately) think we move AG, i dont know if its going to be enough to get a Beal or Booker etc. I think what we are going to have to do is draft a guy at 15 (Josh Green is my bet) and then sign a young FA with potential (im hoping for Damyean Dotson from the knicks), and hope to hit on atleast one of them.
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 6,317
And1: 6,160
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#878 » by MagicMatic » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:30 pm

What people don’t understand about the Bamba minutes vs Vuc situation is that it completely changes how we play. There are too many far reaching implications by simply removing Vuc. He’s the Magic’s highest usage player and Clifford relies on him due to our FO lacking the ability to acquire real sustainable offense.

That’s being said, I’d still rather roll the dice with Bamba’s minutes increasing. I don’t care about Vuc playing his hardest, Orlando getting swept by Milwaukee in the first round, and ultimately earning us the 17th pick while he makes $100m. None of that matters until the FO decides to make real moves. Also, I doubt he has enough value compared to what he gives us albeit at a decreasing contract rate.

Yes, I’d rather find a replacement for Fournier. Which is why Orlando should be looking at a wing with capable offense in this draft.
zaymon
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 1,110
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#879 » by zaymon » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:51 pm

The Effect wrote:
zaymon wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:While I'm far from a Vuc "fan" and wish he didn't block Bamba's path to more minutes, I've come to realize that the player who I actually have the biggest problem with is Evan. I want him off this team so badly. I don't think his role on this team is valuable and I could name at least 20 SG"s off the top of my head (not including multiple players in this draft) I'd rather have in his place.

The last 3 games before the lockdown where Evan didn't play and we coincidentally had 3 of the best offensive performances of the season were some of the most enjoyable games Ive watched from this team in a while. We have to move on.

Any reasonable ones beyond Beal, Booker, George Harden and Holiday ? Becouse i would rather have Giannis than Isaac and it doeant mean anything


It sucks, coming into this season, i actually liked evan and was hoping with improved play from the PG position (fultz vs DJ), that he would play more into the system and would be more team ball, but it seems hes just trying to get his payday and so he went even more to buddyball with Vuc this year. Hopefully this is the last stretch of games for him on the magic

I dont know that will be able to add a top 10-15SG this year unless we are trading our pick+AG. While i (unfortunately) think we move AG, i dont know if its going to be enough to get a Beal or Booker etc. I think what we are going to have to do is draft a guy at 15 (Josh Green is my bet) and then sign a young FA with potential (im hoping for Damyean Dotson from the knicks), and hope to hit on atleast one of them.

I checked Fournier passing stats and he makes significantly less passes than other starters, but his assist to pass % is best on the team, while also he is second on the team in hockey assists. To me that paints a player who is score first guard, with above average vision good passing technique, decisive in his actions, but also willing to move the ball when he sees the opening. His first option is to score and I think that mentality is the reason for his spectacular efectiveness and i dont blame him for it. Players with similar pass count per game are Redick, Jaylen Brown, Malik Beasley, Dillon Brooks, KCP, Tim Hardaway so he fits into shooters passing profile BUT he is the most accurate passer by a mile to all these players. Fournier had higher usage than Gordon every year except 2017-2018. That was our most tragic year, when we sucked the most. Giving Gordon the ball equals losing so i am not suprised Fournier first option is to pass to Vucevic and second is to score.
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,049
And1: 8,768
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#880 » by Bensational » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:35 pm

The Effect wrote:
Bensational wrote:I think the "Bamba is lazy" comments are overblown. He's just late on rotations and forgets to keep his hands up in his sophomore NBA season. He'll never give you that Isaac like ninja reflex, but he doesn't have to.


I hate to say it, but you know, some times GMs miss on players, even at the top of the draft. Dont forget that hammond is the same guy who drafted Thon Maker. Weltman was a top guy in Toronto when they used #9 on Poetl and are the team that drafted the original "2 years away from being 2 years away". And CLifford was the HC when the hornets drafted Noah Vonleh.... But they are also the guys who draft Giannis and Siakem. So they swing for the fences and they win some, they lose some. Im betting 2 years in, WeHam are chalking up Bamba as a miss.

I keep going back to it, but i dont think its his physical skill, i think its his mentality. You can say hes not lazy, but everything he does on the court says otherwise. He doesnt hustle, he jogs back and forth, and only sprints when he has a chance at a sportscenter play. He cares more about highlights than fundamentals. Clearly the coaches see it, hell most here saw it when he was at texas and criticized him for it, and damn if it didnt carry over to the NBA. I wish i was wrong about him, and was really excited about him early on (wasnt a big fan of his in college, but convinced myself he would be good after realizing that there was no way we would pass if he was there), and his first game in the NBA he looked like a future superstar, but that first game might of been his best game.

I hope im wrong, id love for bamba to suddenly turn it on, get that killer attitude and become the next KG, but as of right now, i dont see it and worried hes more likely to be Noah Vonleh than Siakem (wont even say Giannis, thats not fair to anyone)


Oh yeah, there's every chance Mo just isn't meant to be a great or even good player. But it's too early for me to make that call yet.

I don't think you're wrong that Mo goes for the highlights. He's a smart kid with an ego that was fluffed up even more by being made the #6 pick. He's very media aware and savvy. His future as a commentator or media personality is all but certain in my mind.

That said - he still has some elite physical tools and abilities, and he has something that motivates him. It's coach's job to use whatever motivates his players to keep them doing what needs to be done. You have to mould what you've got and dangle whatever carrot you need in front of people. I don't think Cliff has found the right approach for Mo yet.

I'll say this. A friend of a friend works for the Magic, and my mate asked him to get a quick video shout out to me for my birthday. Mo shut him down and then reported him to his boss and got the bloke in trouble. That's the kind of kid Mo is. I've been a bit off him ever since then, but still hoping he turns a corner. (*Edit - come to think of it, Ive never considered the option that my mate's friend just said that to him to get him off his back. It may have never even transpired).

Return to Orlando Magic