Sweater Vest Thread #7: Magic 116 - Cavs 104

[Knightro]

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2019-2020 Vests
Vucevic - 2 (v. Grizzlies, v. Wizards)
Fultz - 1 (v. Cavs)
Isaac - 1 (v. Knicks)
Gordon - 1 (v. Sixers)
Fournier - 1 (v. Spurs)

Cummerbunds
Vucevic - 3 (v. Cavs, v. Knicks, v. Sixers)
Isaac - 1 (v. Grizzlies)
Ross - 1 (v. Spurs)
Fultz - 1 (v. Wizards)

Mittens
Fournier - 3 (v. Knicks, v. Grizzlies, v. Wizards)
Gordon - 1 (v. Knicks)
Augustin - 1 (v. Sixers)
Aminu - 1 (v. Spurs)

[Knightro]

I can add Isaac and/or Ross if the board wants it, but I'm really trying to keep it limited to three choices per victory.

[OrlandoSaban]

Evan and there’s no other

[The Real Dalic]

Evan for sure. When he's hitting his midrange, he's great. When he's not, he's useless, he can't drive or get to the line, but he's been great for most of this year though.

[Hogified05]

We need to some how win that Raps game on Friday. Because then we got GS after. Then @Wash and Phx at home. Keep us around 500 until we get Vuc back. Sounds like AG might be back friday.

[Ducklett]

Evan was the better player, but I voted for Bamba because this board hates him more than they hate AIDS.

[cedric76]

Evan s defense was great tonight

[Knightro]

I voted for Fournier.

He made a bunch of contested and semi contested midrange shots all night.

That isn’t going to last all year, but I’m more than happy to ride the wave while he’s knocking them down.

[drsd]

Auto vote entered. No brainer (except for 8 who do not agree with the Obvious).

[ezzzp]

Evan was the better player, but I voted for Bamba because this board hates him more than they hate AIDS.

more than the constant anti-Fournier nonsense on this board? Yea, no biased agenda in your vote

[drsd]

.... but I voted for Bamba because ....

For me Isaac, who is not even a choice, had a better game than Bamba.

I have it as:
Fournier
Isaac
Bamba
Fultz

What I am sure we all agree on is that having so many players play well was really, really excellent.


..

[Ducklett]

Evan was the better player, but I voted for Bamba because this board hates him more than they hate AIDS.

more than the constant anti-Fournier nonsense on this board? Yea, no biased agenda in your vote

When I see people blame a player's injury on Evan when he wasn't even on the court, I will be happy to agree with you.

[ezzzp]

Evan was the better player, but I voted for Bamba because this board hates him more than they hate AIDS.

more than the constant anti-Fournier nonsense on this board? Yea, no biased agenda in your vote

When I see people blame a player's injury on Evan when he wasn't even on the court, I will be happy to agree with you.

LMAO people blame Rob Hennigan's Oladipo trade on Fournier...they blamed Fournier for Hezonja sucking...even now people blame Gordon's lack of development on Fournier - literally the 2-5 PnR (a staple of nearly every NBA offense in the past 25 years) has a derogatory term called "buddy ball" ...you can't be serious

I'm one of Bamba's supporters, but him getting called out for effort hardly compares to AIDS level hate you are trying to make it seem he gets

[Xatticus]

Fournier's brigade out in force again.

He wasn't that good. Seriously.

Here is some quick math...

An Orlando Magic field goal attempt has an expected value of roughly 1.16 points.

Evan Fournier 30 - 22(1.16) = +4.48 over total EV for 22 field goal attempts or +0.20 over EV per field goal attempt.
Mo Bamba 15 - 6(1.16) = +8.04 over total EV for 6 field goal attempts or +1.34 over EV per field goal attempt.

Mo Bamba took 16 fewer field goal attempts than Fournier, but still managed to produce more value over the EV on his field goal attempts than did Fournier. This is in total. If we look at per field goal attempt the disparity is quite large (Bamba = 1.34, Fournier = 0.20). If someone takes a lot of shots, they are supposed to score a lot of points.

Our ball movement ranged from pretty good to underwhelming last night, which was mostly contingent on Fournier's decision-making at that point in the game. He took a bunch of subpar field goal attempts, but hit enough of them not to kill the offense.

I voted for Fournier. I believe that is the fourth time I have voted for Fournier for sweater vests this year (in only 7 wins). I thought he had a decent night defensively, but Cleveland didn't really go after him. His best play of the night was when he hustled to save a ball from going out of bounds after Isaac poked the ball free on an entry pass to the post.

I still loathe Fournier's decision-making. He is, and has been, the biggest problem with our team's ball movement, though he has generally been better this year than in years past. I'm still one of his biggest detractors and I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster. "How dare eight people vote for Bamba?!" This tribal crap needs to stop.

[zaymon]

Fournier's brigade out in force again.

He wasn't that good. Seriously.

Here is some quick math...

An Orlando Magic field goal attempt has an expected value of roughly 1.16 points.

Evan Fournier 30 - 22(1.16) = +4.48 over total EV for 22 field goal attempts or +0.20 over EV per field goal attempt.
Mo Bamba 15 - 6(1.16) = +8.04 over total EV for 6 field goal attempts or +1.34 over EV per field goal attempt.

Mo Bamba took 16 fewer field goal attempts than Fournier, but still managed to produce more value over the EV on his field goal attempts than did Fournier. This is in total. If we look at per field goal attempt the disparity is quite large (Bamba = 1.34, Fournier = 0.20). If someone takes a lot of shots, they are supposed to score a lot of points.

Our ball movement ranged from pretty good to underwhelming last night, which was mostly contingent on Fournier's decision-making at that point in the game. He took a bunch of subpar field goal attempts, but hit enough of them not to kill the offense.

I voted for Fournier. I believe that is the fourth time I have voted for Fournier for sweater vests this year (in only 7 wins). I thought he had a decent night defensively, but Cleveland didn't really go after him. His best play of the night was when he hustled to save a ball from going out of bounds after Isaac poked the ball free on an entry pass to the post.

I still loathe Fournier's decision-making. He is, and has been, the biggest problem with our team's ball movement, though he has generally been better this year than in years past. I'm still one of his biggest detractors and I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster. "How dare eight people vote for Bamba?!" This tribal crap needs to stop.

Lot of text but not a whole lot of sense. You compare 5 wide open 3s of Bamba on a lucky night to diversified 30 points of Fournier ? What is this madness ? Was he making best decisions every time ? No. But he is our scorer, a bucket getter, not a genius passer. I want to see this legendary offense with AG and Bamba passing to themselves without dribbling until clock runs out.

[pepe1991]

Fournier's brigade out in force again.

He wasn't that good. Seriously.

Here is some quick math...

An Orlando Magic field goal attempt has an expected value of roughly 1.16 points.

Evan Fournier 30 - 22(1.16) = +4.48 over total EV for 22 field goal attempts or +0.20 over EV per field goal attempt.
Mo Bamba 15 - 6(1.16) = +8.04 over total EV for 6 field goal attempts or +1.34 over EV per field goal attempt.

Mo Bamba took 16 fewer field goal attempts than Fournier, but still managed to produce more value over the EV on his field goal attempts than did Fournier. This is in total. If we look at per field goal attempt the disparity is quite large (Bamba = 1.34, Fournier = 0.20). If someone takes a lot of shots, they are supposed to score a lot of points.

Our ball movement ranged from pretty good to underwhelming last night, which was mostly contingent on Fournier's decision-making at that point in the game. He took a bunch of subpar field goal attempts, but hit enough of them not to kill the offense.

I voted for Fournier. I believe that is the fourth time I have voted for Fournier for sweater vests this year (in only 7 wins). I thought he had a decent night defensively, but Cleveland didn't really go after him. His best play of the night was when he hustled to save a ball from going out of bounds after Isaac poked the ball free on an entry pass to the post.

I still loathe Fournier's decision-making. He is, and has been, the biggest problem with our team's ball movement, though he has generally been better this year than in years past. I'm still one of his biggest detractors and I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster. "How dare eight people vote for Bamba?!" This tribal crap needs to stop.

You used to be objective, good poster, what happend?
Amount of bias toward some players and against Evan and vuc last 2 years are just amazing.
You literally compare bench player who made 5 threes,after shooting 6/24 prior, and 27/94 for career ,before that game to shot selection of player who made 802 threes in his career, is career 37% three point shooter to make some apsurd case how Evan's 30 points game wasn't as impressive as 15 points by Bamba ? Holly crap.


You literally claimed months ago that Vučević isn't that good and how team won't be that bad without him.
I guess being 1-3 without him, with only wins against Cavs ( since in Toronto game Magic had lead when he got hurt, heading to 4th quater) didn't age well, or you still keep that ridiculous claim and are willing to die on it, as team will hit hard schedule without him where their lack of talent without their best player will get exposed no matter what.

Yesterday you deflected trade idea of Ben by saying that players are ( i think Šarić and other was Tyler Johnson) are "meh " . What has been Gordon so far but definition of "meh" ?
$18M for career 12ppg ,6,6 apg and, 2,2 apg on below average shooting across the board ?
Main reason why nobody was throwing max offers for him when he was RFA is because he is nothing but average player.

You argues stats only when they are in your favor, you write around them when they don't ( Fultz vs DJ Augustin passing best example).

I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster.

true colors of biased hater for no reason

[PrimeThyme]

For me Isaac, who is not even a choice, had a better game than Bamba.

Isaac also had the highest +/- on the team and held their best player to 9 points. I'm not saying I would have necessarily voted for him (I voted Evan for timely shotmaking in the 2nd half) but he deserved a spot on this list. I don't think it should be limited to only 3 options. In games where there are clearly 3 best players I have no problem with only 3, but I don't think that should always be the case.

[Last Guardian]

.... but I voted for Bamba because ....

For me Isaac, who is not even a choice, had a better game than Bamba.

I have it as:
Fournier
Isaac
Bamba
Fultz

What I am sure we all agree on is that having so many players play well was really, really excellent.


..

Wow, Ross played probably the best offense and defense in this game (his contesting of outside shots was outstanding) and he isn't even a thought?

[drsd]

Wow, Ross played probably the best offense and defense in this game (his contesting of outside shots was outstanding) and he isn't even a thought?

This is an arguable point. (One I do not agree with). But it throughly excludes Bamba for any votes.

Ross and Bamba were good off of the bench, and yes, perhaps Ross was better than Bamba.


But Fournier was in god-mode in this Game. He deserved a 100% vote line. But there one goes.


..

[Xatticus]

Fournier's brigade out in force again.

He wasn't that good. Seriously.

Here is some quick math...

An Orlando Magic field goal attempt has an expected value of roughly 1.16 points.

Evan Fournier 30 - 22(1.16) = +4.48 over total EV for 22 field goal attempts or +0.20 over EV per field goal attempt.
Mo Bamba 15 - 6(1.16) = +8.04 over total EV for 6 field goal attempts or +1.34 over EV per field goal attempt.

Mo Bamba took 16 fewer field goal attempts than Fournier, but still managed to produce more value over the EV on his field goal attempts than did Fournier. This is in total. If we look at per field goal attempt the disparity is quite large (Bamba = 1.34, Fournier = 0.20). If someone takes a lot of shots, they are supposed to score a lot of points.

Our ball movement ranged from pretty good to underwhelming last night, which was mostly contingent on Fournier's decision-making at that point in the game. He took a bunch of subpar field goal attempts, but hit enough of them not to kill the offense.

I voted for Fournier. I believe that is the fourth time I have voted for Fournier for sweater vests this year (in only 7 wins). I thought he had a decent night defensively, but Cleveland didn't really go after him. His best play of the night was when he hustled to save a ball from going out of bounds after Isaac poked the ball free on an entry pass to the post.

I still loathe Fournier's decision-making. He is, and has been, the biggest problem with our team's ball movement, though he has generally been better this year than in years past. I'm still one of his biggest detractors and I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster. "How dare eight people vote for Bamba?!" This tribal crap needs to stop.

You used to be objective, good poster, what happend?
Amount of bias toward some players and against Evan and vuc last 2 years are just amazing.
You literally compare bench player who made 5 threes,after shooting 6/24 prior, and 27/94 for career ,before that game to shot selection of player who made 802 threes in his career, is career 37% three point shooter to make some apsurd case how Evan's 30 points game wasn't as impressive as 15 points by Bamba ? Holly crap.


You literally claimed months ago that Vučević isn't that good and how team won't be that bad without him.
I guess being 1-3 without him, with only wins against Cavs ( since in Toronto game Magic had lead when he got hurt, heading to 4th quater) didn't age well, or you still keep that ridiculous claim and are willing to die on it, as team will hit hard schedule without him where their lack of talent without their best player will get exposed no matter what.

Yesterday you deflected trade idea of Ben by saying that players are ( i think Šarić and other was Tyler Johnson) are "meh " . What has been Gordon so far but definition of "meh" ?
$18M for career 12ppg ,6,6 apg and, 2,2 apg on below average shooting across the board ?
Main reason why nobody was throwing max offers for him when he was RFA is because he is nothing but average player.

You argues stats only when they are in your favor, you write around them when they don't ( Fultz vs DJ Augustin passing best example).

I eagerly await the day that he is off of our roster.

true colors of biased hater for no reason

Perhaps it isn't me that's changed? Just a thought. I'd like to think that I'm still evolving though.

The curious thing to me is that I don't at all consider myself a hater of Vucevic. I see legitimate value in what he brings, but I just don't see a way that you can construct a good offense with such an underwhelming player as the centerpiece. Take him out of the post, reduce his usage, and let him operate as a ball mover from the perimeter and we might be on to something.

We finally start winning some games down the stretch last year, and you start arguing that this is a 20-win roster without Vucevic. So Vucevic adds 20 wins? That's amazing considering that we have won 28 games per year in the Vucevic era... but I'm irrational and biased?

It's not your place, or anyone else's (myself included), to tell people who they can or can't vote for in these polls. You've been on some McCarthyesque crusade since last year against anti-Fournier bias. If Fournier doesn't win the vote, you complain. If Fournier does win the vote, you complain. Have you ever honestly considered whether you might be the source of the bias for which you castigate others?

As I said, I voted for Fournier. I'd intended to vote for Ross, but he wasn't an option. I didn't complain. I didn't really give a **** until I saw people criticizing others for voting for Bamba, which was an entirely legitimate option. Why are you posting Bamba's stats heading into the game to detract from his performance? Do you not understand what these silly polls are for?