Nikola Vučević and Evan Fournier discussion

[pepe1991]

since almost every topic comes down to endless talks about them, why not have thread about them to avoid annoying other posters?

[MagicStarwipe]

Good idea. Any thread that turns into a Vuc/Fournier discussion can have said posts moved here. Since I like making drive by Fournier insults and then moving on, I won't be visiting this thread. You guys knock yourselves out

[OrlandoNed]

I'll throw out a talking point to start us off:

We have to break up Vuc and Fournier. At least one of them HAS to go for the good of the team.

[Skin]

Can't wait till we're passed the phase of off their fans believing that we need them as bridge pieces to a successful future. Boringest era of Magic basketball ever.

[pepe1991]

5.5 games behind 5th seed and 6,5 games behind 4th seed with leading scorers Evan Fournier and Nikola Vučević ridin back to playoffs

[OrlandoNed]

5.5 games behind 5th seed and 6,5 games behind 4th seed with leading scorers Evan Fournier and Nikola Vučević ridin back to playoffs

So when is an appropriate time to move on from them? How long do we have to live and die by Buddy Ball? Why is success such an impossibility without them?

[pepe1991]

5.5 games behind 5th seed and 6,5 games behind 4th seed with leading scorers Evan Fournier and Nikola Vučević ridin back to playoffs

So when is an appropriate time to move on from them? How long do we have to live and die by Buddy Ball?

Never !

Magic right now have no other starting level C that could replace Vuc and for damn sure have nobody else who can shoot in general to replace Evan.

What you want in return from Evan?
19 ppg scorer who is 40% three point shooter ?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Let's play a little game of can the Magic afford EF and what would that mean.

Spoiler:

(THEY CAN'T)

For the sake of the argument lets assume reality. Magic will accept JI Bamba and Fultz team options for 20/21. The Magic guarantee Melvin Frazier's option and Iwundu become a FA (think Frazier can easily slide into this 9th man spot/DNP). Okeke's contract hits at the rookie scale and we add 16th pick salary for 2020 draft.




So right off the bat the Magic would be a TAX TEAM if they resigned Fournier to anything over $15,851,299. Not to mention the Magic would have no backup PG (unless they drafted one or resigned MCW) and would need to re sign Fultz and JI to deals in 21-22 season. This leads me to believe the Magic could very well move Fournier by deadline.


NOT GREAT BOB

[pepe1991]

Let's play a little game of can the Magic afford EF and what would that mean.

Spoiler:

(THEY CAN'T)

For the sake of the argument lets assume reality. Magic will accept JI Bamba and Fultz team options for 20/21. The Magic guarantee Melvin Frazier's option and Iwundu become a FA (think Frazier can easily slide into this 9th man spot/DNP). Okeke's contract hits at the rookie scale and we add 16th pick salary for 2020 draft.




So right off the bat the Magic would be a TAX TEAM if they resigned Fournier to anything over $15,851,299. Not to mention the Magic would have no backup PG (unless they drafted one or resigned MCW) and would need to re sign Fultz and JI to deals in 21-22 season. This leads me to believe the Magic could very well move Fournier by deadline.


NOT GREAT BOB

Play with trade machine and you will soon figure that Magic in 1 on 1 trade can only get player that makes execlly the same salary Evan makes now. Therfore straight up trade will lead to same cap situation in future.

Also if you look around, you'll find out most teams show zero interests in buying anything on trade market. Matter of fact only two trades happend so far. Clarkson going out from tanking team to semi-contender and two exp. contracts changing places.

I have zero desire to defend Weltman and Hammond but you can't force trade when nobody is trading.

Good teams don't have assets to match salaries to chase Evan.
Bad teams have no desire to add players.

I wasted like 45 min trying to single out potential Evan suitors and pretty much came with:
Philadelphia
Oklahoma
Minessota

Philadelphia has nothing to make a trade possible
Oklahoma trade is pretty much him for Schroder
Minessota has nothing but Crabbe now

[p0peye]

If we resign Evan, chances are at least some combination of two players out of AG, Vučević, Bamba and Aminu group will be traded before 2021 FA.

[Ducklett]

Everyone knows my thoughts, but I wanted to say something more positive.

I hope Vuc and Evan live their whole non-basketball lives here in Orlando. Both are awesome dudes and, from everything I read and understand from first hand accounts, are amazing people for our community. I sincerely hope that when Vuc retires, the Magic Org gives him an ambassador role of some sort.

[UCFJayBird]

Let's play a little game of can the Magic afford EF and what would that mean.

Spoiler:

(THEY CAN'T)

For the sake of the argument lets assume reality. Magic will accept JI Bamba and Fultz team options for 20/21. The Magic guarantee Melvin Frazier's option and Iwundu become a FA (think Frazier can easily slide into this 9th man spot/DNP). Okeke's contract hits at the rookie scale and we add 16th pick salary for 2020 draft.




So right off the bat the Magic would be a TAX TEAM if they resigned Fournier to anything over $15,851,299. Not to mention the Magic would have no backup PG (unless they drafted one or resigned MCW) and would need to re sign Fultz and JI to deals in 21-22 season. This leads me to believe the Magic could very well move Fournier by deadline.


NOT GREAT BOB

Magic got the waiver for Mozgov approved, so we won't have a salary hit on him. So we can remove him from your calcs

edit: also are you including that $17m player option for Evan in your calculation (too lazy to type your stuff into my own spreadsheet and add it up)? Doesn't that mean it would be the $15.5m plus the $5.5 for Mozgov OVER the $17m for Evan before tax? So the Magic basically have $38m for Evan and others this offseason before hitting the tax threshold?

I could be missing something.

[drsd]

A thread on Orlando's two best players by many metrics: Vučević and Fournier.

Sounds good to me !


..

[orlando_joe]

magic at like 95 g money next yr without pick or Okeke 3 mill each? no Fournier no dj ...only 10 players so add what 1.5 mill for min players holds ..only left with like 10-12 mill..

[Max Power]

I think Vucevic is going to be here for the immediate future. At least a couple more seasons. Fournier I can definitely see being moved to make sure we get something for him since he’s going to seek a big raise this summer. Fournier, looks great this year, but last year was a basketball abomination. Ross and Vuc were why we made the playoffs. Evan was bad. So it’s easy for me to see he’s the more expendable of the two. The thought of Khem Birch or Mo Bamba being our starting center makes me feel all yucky inside. A competent shooter via the draft or free agency can mirror Fournier’s production.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

I don't mind Vooch for the long haul if/unless Bamba meets expectations... it's good to have a post up/Passing big threat in the playoffs. I think one of AG/Evan is moved... Honestly it should be a Spot up shooter at the 2/3 when Fultz get to operate the offense.

[Bigmagicfan82]

Evan Fournier +DJ+ 2nd Round Pick to Bulls for Zach LeVine + Tomas Satoransky.
Both Players are locked into contracts going forward. For now keep Vuc and trade him at a later time

Fultz/MCW/LeVine
LeVine/Ross/Satoransky
Issac/Okeke/AG
AG/Aminu/Issac
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Draft a replacement for Aminu. Trade Vuc once Bamba is ready to move into the SL.

[orlando_joe]

Evan Fournier +DJ+ 2nd Round Pick to Bulls for Zach LeVine + Tomas Satoransky.
Both Players are locked into contracts going forward. For now keep Vuc and trade him at a later time

Fultz/MCW/LeVine
LeVine/Ross/Satoransky
Issac/Okeke/AG
AG/Aminu/Issac
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Draft a replacement for Aminu. Trade Vuc once Bamba is ready to move into the SL.

I would rather keep Fournier then let him anywhere near magic young players he would kill team chemistry and don't want to pay satoransky 10 mil ...magic have ross..draft a good shooting guard or pg that can shoot and add Okeke then trade aminu and both 2nds for pg or sg what ever don't draft
and would awundu over mcw if cost is same

[fendilim]

I do anticipate that we will likely trade Gordon to make room for retaining Fournier. WeHam has made moves to acquire Aminu, Okeke and Isaac. All 3 are WeHam guys. Gordon might be the most expendable of guys on the roster.

[BadMofoPimp]

Would kinda be fun reading years of posts if they both play the rest of their careers as Magicians.