Founier all star ? lack of love even from Orlando or not ?

[SOUL]

My thoughts.

I have no idea where the Fournier for All star conversation started, but no, he is not playing at that level. As just above, Fournier with a 17+ PER is playing above starting capacity at SG. I am fine with his play to the point that the SG slot is not a major issue for improvement this year. (Next year; I am unlikely to hold that view).


..

and thats what happens in Orlando. if a player is good but doesnt become a star, the mob tears them down and hates them

This is... dramatic. People grow tired of anyone on their team the amount of years our 3 "captains" have been on the team. I think it's somewhat human nature, adding to the fact we've had relatively tiny success as a team with our "captains" on the team it shouldn't be a shocker people are ready to move on.

None of them have to be the problem to justify moving on. Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

Plus these statements are only said when it's Vuc and Fournier criticism.

[tiderulz]

My thoughts.

I have no idea where the Fournier for All star conversation started, but no, he is not playing at that level. As just above, Fournier with a 17+ PER is playing above starting capacity at SG. I am fine with his play to the point that the SG slot is not a major issue for improvement this year. (Next year; I am unlikely to hold that view).


..

and thats what happens in Orlando. if a player is good but doesnt become a star, the mob tears them down and hates them

This is... dramatic. People grow tired of anyone on their team the amount of years our 3 "captains" have been on the team. I think it's somewhat human nature, adding to the fact we've had relatively tiny success as a team with our "captains" on the team it shouldn't be a shocker people are ready to move on.

None of them have to be the problem to justify moving on. Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

i disagree with that. Are people tired of Lillard? CJ? Curry, Klay, Draymond? Patty Mills? Lowry? Harden?

[MagicMatic]

and thats what happens in Orlando. if a player is good but doesnt become a star, the mob tears them down and hates them

This is... dramatic. People grow tired of anyone on their team the amount of years our 3 "captains" have been on the team. I think it's somewhat human nature, adding to the fact we've had relatively tiny success as a team with our "captains" on the team it shouldn't be a shocker people are ready to move on.

None of them have to be the problem to justify moving on. Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

i disagree with that. Are people tired of Lillard? CJ? Curry, Klay, Draymond? Patty Mills? Lowry? Harden?

Well... most of those players you listed are star level guys that carry their teams deep into the playoffs or in MVP discussions.

There is more than enough reason for people to want to move on from Vuc and Fournier. Given the outcomes of the past 6-7 years id say it’s warranted.

[tiderulz]

and thats what happens in Orlando. if a player is good but doesnt become a star, the mob tears them down and hates them

This is... dramatic. People grow tired of anyone on their team the amount of years our 3 "captains" have been on the team. I think it's somewhat human nature, adding to the fact we've had relatively tiny success as a team with our "captains" on the team it shouldn't be a shocker people are ready to move on.

None of them have to be the problem to justify moving on. Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

Plus these statements are only said when it's Vuc and Fournier criticism.

this was how Tobias was treated too. played good, didnt become a star, got crushed around here. Dipo to a small extent. Gordon

[SOUL]

This is... dramatic. People grow tired of anyone on their team the amount of years our 3 "captains" have been on the team. I think it's somewhat human nature, adding to the fact we've had relatively tiny success as a team with our "captains" on the team it shouldn't be a shocker people are ready to move on.

None of them have to be the problem to justify moving on. Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

Plus these statements are only said when it's Vuc and Fournier criticism.

this was how Tobias was treated too. played good, didnt become a star, got crushed around here. Dipo to a small extent. Gordon

Yeah but those were all after 3 years though which we know is a limited amount of time and fans are impatient. Fournier is on his 6th year and Vuc 8th, so it's just natural people are going to be tired of a team that has been a 8th seed once while being a lottery team the rest of it. Same with Gordon, he's been on the team quite a few years now too.. and I always make it so I don't heavily criticize players until they've signed a extension sort of contract which basically means the team expects them to contribute a certain amount, therefore I'll be more harsh on the criticism too.

[Rainwater]

If he had these numbers on a 1st seed like Middleton does he'd get consideration. Of course he'd never have these numbers on a 1st seed because no team worth their salt would ever give him as much usage as he has here. He's not an all-star. I can only imagine how much dumber he'd start playing if he thought he was.

Besides, Vuc has better numbers than him now and he's a much better player than Evan.

To be quite honest with you Middletown would not be an all-star if we're not for Giannis and that number 1 seed.

[Rainwater]

He's not an all star. Is an explanation really needed? They are not winning and he would better off in Tobias role for the Sixers. Same level talent.

[drsd]

Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

I cannot disagree more.

Fournier's play has kept the Magic in the playoff hunt. That is not a "vacuum".

..

[j-ragg]

Fournier has had a great year in a vacuum.

I cannot disagree more.

Fournier's play has kept the Magic in the playoff hunt. That is not a "vacuum".

..

No one is good enough on this team to carry them to a good record. He's kept us afloat more than anyone especially offensively. It still makes more sense to move on as the ceiling of our team is obviously very low. I feel like you understood my point but just took that quote to try and make it into an imaginary diss against Evan. I know you have been predicting 50 win seasons for us since 2014 but the reality is we will never come close to that with this team.

[drsd]

No one is good enough on this team to carry them to a good record. He's kept us afloat more than anyone especially offensively. It still makes more sense to move on as the ceiling of our team is obviously very low. I feel like you understood my point but just took that quote to try and make it into an imaginary diss against Evan. I know you have been predicting 50 win seasons for us since 2014 but the reality is we will never come close to that with this team.

I agree with all of this. But this is because Orlando is a TEAM. Not a star with a bunch of guys. If Fournier was replaced by, say Iwundu, this team would not have 12 wins right now. Whether that is good or bad, is another point (I believe that every single win is worth having, but I see the opposing point).


..

[JRoy]

The only way EF gets to the all star game is if he buys a ticket

[Xatticus]

No one is good enough on this team to carry them to a good record. He's kept us afloat more than anyone especially offensively. It still makes more sense to move on as the ceiling of our team is obviously very low. I feel like you understood my point but just took that quote to try and make it into an imaginary diss against Evan. I know you have been predicting 50 win seasons for us since 2014 but the reality is we will never come close to that with this team.

I agree with all of this. But this is because Orlando is a TEAM. Not a star with a bunch of guys. If Fournier was replaced by, say Iwundu, this team would not have 12 wins right now. Whether that is good or bad, is another point (I believe that every single win is worth having, but I see the opposing point).


..

This is such an absurd statement considering that the team has a better net rating when Iwundu is on the floor than it does when Fournier is. The team has actually been better this year when Fournier is on the bench. He hasn't carried this team to anything. This team is only competitive because of what it does at the defensive end. The offense sucks whether or not Fournier is on the floor, but the defense is better when he is on the bench.

Fournier is the antithesis of LeBron James. Everything he does is for the benefit of his own stat line.

[drsd]

This is such an absurd statement considering that the team has a better net rating when Iwundu is on the floor than it does when Fournier is. The team has actually been better this year when Fournier is on the bench. He hasn't carried this team to anything. This team is only competitive because of what it does at the defensive end. The offense sucks whether or not Fournier is on the floor, but the defense is better when he is on the bench.

Fournier is the antithesis of LeBron James. Everything he does is for the benefit of his own stat line.

This is objectively false. When Fournier is on the court the team scores about 2 points more (averaged over 48 minutes) than when he is not.

Question: do you like it when Iwundu starts?



..

[Xatticus]

This is such an absurd statement considering that the team has a better net rating when Iwundu is on the floor than it does when Fournier is. The team has actually been better this year when Fournier is on the bench. He hasn't carried this team to anything. This team is only competitive because of what it does at the defensive end. The offense sucks whether or not Fournier is on the floor, but the defense is better when he is on the bench.

Fournier is the antithesis of LeBron James. Everything he does is for the benefit of his own stat line.

This is objectively false. When Fournier is on the court the team scores about 2 points more (averaged over 48 minutes) than when he is not.

Question: do you like it when Iwundu starts?



..

You seem to be unclear on the definition(s) of the word(s) objectively and/or false.



For reference, Orlando has a -0.8 net rating on the season.



We have been outscored by 41 points while Fournier has been on the floor this year. We have outscored the opposition by 17 points when he has been on the bench. If Fournier was carrying this team, you would think that it would manifest in the plus/minus in some fashion.

I'd obviously prefer someone better than Iwundu in the starting lineup, but that doesn't actually make Fournier any more appealing. I'd certainly rather pay Iwundu a couple million to play 20 minutes a night than to throw $20M per year at Fournier.