Regular Season Game 46: Boston Celtics (29-14) at Orlando Magic (21-24) - 7pm ET

[KillMonger]

Vuc defense is awful and we'll always be mediocre as long as he's here.

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We get it.
You think Vuc sucks and Bamba is a great defensive center. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with you.

We will always be mediocre not because of Vuc but because of the lack of talent on this roster. We do t have to build around Vuc but he is a great complimentary piece on a top seeded NBA team.

Bamba is garbage. We might be able to fetch a low first round or second round picks for him.

I actually think Isaac is better suited to play center the majority of minutes.

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as long as clifford is here....this will never happen

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Vuc defense is awful and we'll always be mediocre as long as he's here.

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We get it.
You think Vuc sucks and Bamba is a great defensive center. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with you.

We will always be mediocre not because of Vuc but because of the lack of talent on this roster. We do t have to build around Vuc but he is a great complimentary piece on a top seeded NBA team.

Bamba is garbage. We might be able to fetch a low first round or second round picks for him.

I actually think Isaac is better suited to play center the majority of minutes.

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The worst idea ever. Isaac can play spot minutes at 5 depending on matchups. But he is NOT a center. Not all 7 footers are centers.

[Bergmaniac]

It seems like there were more Celtics fans than Magic fans at this game, embarrassing stuff.

At games like this Clifford's defensive strategy gets exposed, guards who can hit midrange shots at a good clip always give us fits.

The only way for the current roster, with Isaac and to be good offensively is for Vucevic to hit 3 at a very good clip, when he doesn't, we look bad, no wonder with so many non-shooters in the rotation.

For some reason Ross and Fournier are never hot from 3 in the same game, it's weird. It's not easy to do on this roster which forces them to take so many tough 3s, but it seems to be happening even more rarely than you'd expect given that.

[Gomagic44]

It seems like there were more Celtics fans than Magic fans at this game, embarrassing stuff.

At games like this Clifford's defensive strategy gets exposed, guards who can hit midrange shots at a good clip always give us fits.

The only way for the current roster, with Isaac and to be good offensively is for Vucevic to hit 3 at a very good clip, when he doesn't, we look bad, no wonder with so many non-shooters in the rotation.

For some reason Ross and Fournier are never hot from 3 in the same game, it's weird. It's not easy to do on this roster which forces them to take so many tough 3s, but it seems to be happening even more rarely than you'd expect given that.

Because Boston consistently puts out a good product. They were bad for what, two years? And back into serious contenders again. Meanwhile....we still have buddy ball.


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[Popsicle1228]

By far? stop capping man, fournier is right in that same damn boat.....all 3 are folding like a bad hand in poker, let's not kid ourselves

Sure, but you're taking my post a little out of context. When I say he's been better "by far," I don't mean he's been great, I mean he's been inconsistent and mediocre as hell all year, and that still destroys Vuc and Ross. It's not a positive Fournier post, it's a negative Vuc and Ross post.

i get it but i mean fournier is just points....that's all he's giving you, if he's not hitting you're getting nothing else and it's same with ross....at least with vuc if he's not scoring he'll give you boards, he'll give you assists.....minimal defense but it's way more valuable than what you'd get from a ross and fournier when they're not hitting shots

This is somewhat of a hot take because I just finished watching the game.

I personally get more frustrated with Vuc because he often plays below his potential. He is still a good player, but plays below himself.

I was ready to move on from Vuc prior to last season because I felt this about him then. However, I will admit that I wanted the Magic to resign him because his play last season fooled me into believing that he had entered his prime and finally “figured it out” so to speak. Instead he has gone to playing below his potential just as he did prior to 2018-2019 with Frank Vogel at the helm.

This team will only go as far as Vuc will take them, and I don’t believe he has it in him to give us his best effort every night. He did last season, but at this point I believe last season to be an anomaly for his career, and he is comfortably regressing back to the player he really is. A good player, but not a player who will give you All-Star level play consistently.

Such a frustrating player for me. I would rather watch a less skillful player play to his best effort than a highly skilled player play at 80% of his potential due to poor effort. I hate to say it, but maybe Vuc himself would actually benefit from a change of scenery. He appears to comfortable in his role in Orlando.

[Popsicle1228]

It seems like there were more Celtics fans than Magic fans at this game, embarrassing.

The Magic have been irrelevant for the large part of a decade. It annoys me to hear the opposing fans as much as anyone, but this organizations management has earned it. I remember a time when other arenas had seemingly more Magic fans when compared to the home team. It is sad that these memories were produced so many years ago.

[tiderulz]

You just have to deal with fact that this roster isn't elite and won't tank because tanking nowdays is usless and no longer a tool for rebuild.

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

[drsd]

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Objectively that is true. But NONE of the current top 3 teams in either conference (6 teams total) became top by that approach.


..

[pepe1991]

You just have to deal with fact that this roster isn't elite and won't tank because tanking nowdays is usless and no longer a tool for rebuild.

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Yea but it's just in theory , in reality draft with this lottery odds is wacky.
With 3 teams tied with 33 wins last year :
one won lottery
one drafted second
and one drafted 10th

Cavs, with second worst record and 14% to win lottery ended up with 5th pick

There are also drafts where winning lottery really doesn't mean much ( this year), because nobody really knows who should 1# pick be. You have Lamelo Ball flying from projected second round pick last year to top 5 pick this year by not even playing most of the time in between. Guy broke foot or something , is out for a year and somehow his stock went up?!
There are also some "smells like Hezonja" Euro prospects who fly high. Not to mention that once again within top 5 picks , 3 are big men once again.

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

[drsd]

You just have to deal with fact that this roster isn't elite and won't tank because tanking nowdays is usless and no longer a tool for rebuild.

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Yea but it's just in theory , in reality draft with this lottery odds is wacky.
With 3 teams tied with 33 wins last year :
one won lottery
one drafted second
and one drafted 10th

Cavs, with second worst record and 14% to win lottery ended up with 5th pick

There are also drafts where winning lottery really doesn't mean much ( this year), because nobody really knows who should 1# pick be. You have Lamelo Ball flying from projected second round pick last year to top 5 pick this year by not even playing most of the time in between. Guy broke foot or something , is out for a year and somehow his stock went up?!
There are also some "smells like Hezonja" Euro prospects who fly high. Not to mention that once again within top 5 picks , 3 are big men once again.

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

Why is James Wiseman projected to go top-3?

He looks like the coming of Shawn Bradley to me. Cole Anthony might be the only player in the top-10 worth considering, and Orlando could get the best player in the draft with RJ Hampton. This is how unsettled the coming draft is.
(But getting RJ Hampton might be a reason for the Magic to keep their pick).

..


My point: I think it is essentially probable that Orlando trades out of this draft.






..

[pepe1991]

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Yea but it's just in theory , in reality draft with this lottery odds is wacky.
With 3 teams tied with 33 wins last year :
one won lottery
one drafted second
and one drafted 10th

Cavs, with second worst record and 14% to win lottery ended up with 5th pick

There are also drafts where winning lottery really doesn't mean much ( this year), because nobody really knows who should 1# pick be. You have Lamelo Ball flying from projected second round pick last year to top 5 pick this year by not even playing most of the time in between. Guy broke foot or something , is out for a year and somehow his stock went up?!
There are also some "smells like Hezonja" Euro prospects who fly high. Not to mention that once again within top 5 picks , 3 are big men once again.

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

Why is James Wiseman projected to go top-3?

He looks like the coming of Shawn Bradley to me.


My point: I think it is essentially probable that Orlando trades out of this draft.






..

Because he is 7'1 athlete

WEAKNESSES
Feel on both ends has a long way to go, doesn’t really use his gifts. For example, his shot blocking numbers are pedestrian for someone with his type of talent. Not always in right place.
Often looks lost on both ends, mechanical in the post, unsure of himself. Tunnel vision in the post.
Doesn’t always play as aggressive as you’d like for someone with his tools, settles too much for finesse moves, hesitates to use size inside. A bit “soft” at this point. Needs to get better at setting screens
Perimeter skills have a long way to go. Some touch on his hook shot but unreliable 15 footer at best and little range beyond that.
Defensive awareness and understanding of position isn’t great. Mistimes jumps, doesn’t recognize angles, inconsistent footwork and technique.




Guy's draft comparison is Vučević i think ,by draft net

[drsd]

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

To be fair, outside Derrick Rose, most MVPs take at least 4 years to get to elite level from their draft year.

Can any of Zion Williamson, Deandre Ayton, Markelle Fultz, or Ben Simmons become a future MVP?

Not really that sure. Ayton and Fultz look to be hard no's. Simmons and Williamson: the soup needs to cook. And before that we have, Towns, Wiggins, and Bennett.


...

[Xatticus]

"Magic offensive strategy sucks"

Good luck playing with 3 >30% three point shooters in era of 40 threes a game

The notations on this image are just inaccurate.

Birch is in the dunk spot. He is actually open if Fultz can deliver the ball. Bigs are taught to find this spot when someone penetrates into the paint. Birch is exactly where he is supposed to be and he is ready to receive the pass.

Fultz obviously had a driving lane because he is in the middle of the paint. That's precisely where you want your ball handler to be. That's the optimal spot on the floor from which to distribute the ball.

Gordon is wide open in the corner. It doesn't really matter what his field goal percentage is from that spot. That's a viable pass that we do not make often enough. If a team's scheme is to sag and help from the corner, then that pass should occur more frequently.

And as bad as Gordon has been from the 3-point line, it has still a much better shot for our offense than a Vucevic post up.

[neuraldarwinism]

down to only watching fultz's 1st and 4th quarter minutes

[KillMonger]

Sure, but you're taking my post a little out of context. When I say he's been better "by far," I don't mean he's been great, I mean he's been inconsistent and mediocre as hell all year, and that still destroys Vuc and Ross. It's not a positive Fournier post, it's a negative Vuc and Ross post.

i get it but i mean fournier is just points....that's all he's giving you, if he's not hitting you're getting nothing else and it's same with ross....at least with vuc if he's not scoring he'll give you boards, he'll give you assists.....minimal defense but it's way more valuable than what you'd get from a ross and fournier when they're not hitting shots

This is somewhat of a hot take because I just finished watching the game.

I personally get more frustrated with Vuc because he often plays below his potential. He is still a good player, but plays below himself.

I was ready to move on from Vuc prior to last season because I felt this about him then. However, I will admit that I wanted the Magic to resign him because his play last season fooled me into believing that he had entered his prime and finally “figured it out” so to speak. Instead he has gone to playing below his potential just as he did prior to 2018-2019 with Frank Vogel at the helm.

This team will only go as far as Vuc will take them, and I don’t believe he has it in him to give us his best effort every night. He did last season, but at this point I believe last season to be an anomaly for his career, and he is comfortably regressing back to the player he really is. A good player, but not a player who will give you All-Star level play consistently.

Such a frustrating player for me. I would rather watch a less skillful player play to his best effort than a highly skilled player play at 80% of his potential due to poor effort. I hate to say it, but maybe Vuc himself would actually benefit from a change of scenery. He appears to comfortable in his role in Orlando.

Me personally i would much rather have vuc play closer to the basket, do NOT like him settling for 3's.....he's taking too many 3's to me and it's killing his efficiency.....however i'm not so sure i would say it's lack of effort, when i look at bamba? that's lack of effort with vuc he has his weaknesses and it's well documented. This year there is clearly a regression, started off injured took a while to get back into it but something is off and off my eye test i just think it's his reliance on the 3 pointer. That being said though his last 5 games he's averaging 20 and 11, if that's 80% then.....that's bad i guess?

He should be living in the paint but by design he's out hovering at the 3 point line for spacing, even though we don't take advantage of the spacing. Vuc on another team would be better for him, with a better coach and better players around him he could be a piece that could put a team over the top. For us i guess a new beginning free from Vuc AND fournier because that's really the ONLY scenario i can accept Vuc being gone as long as Fournier is gone as well. Clifford isn't long for this team either imo so maybe i should be more optimistic, although i see AG gone before Vuc though that's for sure.

[Bergmaniac]

Vuc is a good post up player, but his inability to draw fouls really limits his efficiency there. I have no problem with him taking a lot of 3s. That's how he had by far his best scoring season last year. He's always taken plenty of jump shots, and I'd much rather have him shoot 3s at 36% than long 2s at 45%. We lose a bit on the glass this way, but his improved scoring efficiency and the improved spacing more than make up for it.

Looking at the data, right now the main reason for Vucevic's drop in efficiency from last season is that his midrange shooting has been dreadful. His 3 point shooting improved after a poor start and right now is at a very respectable 36.5%.

Of course, with the current roster, there is not really a choice, we have so many non-shooters that if Vucevic doesn't space the floor, the offence will be even worse than it currently is and Fultz will never get to the basket in the half court.

[tiderulz]

You just have to deal with fact that this roster isn't elite and won't tank because tanking nowdays is usless and no longer a tool for rebuild.

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Yea but it's just in theory , in reality draft with this lottery odds is wacky.
With 3 teams tied with 33 wins last year :
one won lottery
one drafted second
and one drafted 10th

Cavs, with second worst record and 14% to win lottery ended up with 5th pick

There are also drafts where winning lottery really doesn't mean much ( this year), because nobody really knows who should 1# pick be. You have Lamelo Ball flying from projected second round pick last year to top 5 pick this year by not even playing most of the time in between. Guy broke foot or something , is out for a year and somehow his stock went up?!
There are also some "smells like Hezonja" Euro prospects who fly high. Not to mention that once again within top 5 picks , 3 are big men once again.

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

its not just about the #1 pick. You can lose and get #6 or win some games and get #13

[jayrehme]

We get it.
You think Vuc sucks and Bamba is a great defensive center. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with you.

We will always be mediocre not because of Vuc but because of the lack of talent on this roster. We do t have to build around Vuc but he is a great complimentary piece on a top seeded NBA team.

Bamba is garbage. We might be able to fetch a low first round or second round picks for him.

I actually think Isaac is better suited to play center the majority of minutes.

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The worst idea ever. Isaac can play spot minutes at 5 depending on matchups. But he is NOT a center. Not all 7 footers are centers.

Why?... just because hes good at other things too?

[Ducklett]

if you tank, you create a larger chance at a better pick. Better picks have a higher chance or becoming better players.

Yea but it's just in theory , in reality draft with this lottery odds is wacky.
With 3 teams tied with 33 wins last year :
one won lottery
one drafted second
and one drafted 10th

Cavs, with second worst record and 14% to win lottery ended up with 5th pick

There are also drafts where winning lottery really doesn't mean much ( this year), because nobody really knows who should 1# pick be. You have Lamelo Ball flying from projected second round pick last year to top 5 pick this year by not even playing most of the time in between. Guy broke foot or something , is out for a year and somehow his stock went up?!
There are also some "smells like Hezonja" Euro prospects who fly high. Not to mention that once again within top 5 picks , 3 are big men once again.

It's kind a funny but Lebron James is last MVP who was also first overall draft pick, 7 years ago.

its not just about the #1 pick. You can lose and get #6 or win some games and get #13

The people who say "Why did we take Bamba" are a lot of repeats with the people who said "tanking doesn't work". Turns out, winning those meaningless games in the Bamba draft knocked us out of Trae and Doncic, so tanking would have worked.

[pepe1991]

"Magic offensive strategy sucks"

Good luck playing with 3 >30% three point shooters in era of 40 threes a game

The notations on this image are just inaccurate.

Birch is in the dunk spot. He is actually open if Fultz can deliver the ball. Bigs are taught to find this spot when someone penetrates into the paint. Birch is exactly where he is supposed to be and he is ready to receive the pass.

Fultz obviously had a driving lane because he is in the middle of the paint. That's precisely where you want your ball handler to be. That's the optimal spot on the floor from which to distribute the ball.

Gordon is wide open in the corner. It doesn't really matter what his field goal percentage is from that spot. That's a viable pass that we do not make often enough. If a team's scheme is to sag and help from the corner, then that pass should occur more frequently.

And as bad as Gordon has been from the 3-point line, it has still a much better shot for our offense than a Vucevic post up.

Gordon shoots 5/18 = 27% from that corner so it's valuable shot for normal player, but for Gordon it's just another brick. ( league's average from left corner is 39,8% so he shoots solid 11% below average).

Birch actually recived that shot, and ofc, got blocked ,as 3 defenders weere on him.

Fultz is cought in no man's land because there are 3 defenders defending all paths of a ball and of his potential shot. Matter of fact him shooting 3-10 from the floor is best example why driving without plan on team that can't streach floor is dead possessoin.

Gordon is wide open because he can't shoot. Just like Birch and Fultz are always wide open on open 3s.

And as bad as Gordon has been from the 3-point line, it has still a much better shot for our offense than a Vucevic post up.

this is factually incorrect and you know it so i don't know why you even bring it up .
Gordon shooting anything but layups nowdays gives you pathetic returning value. 49,9% TS despite shooting 70,6% inside 3 feet paints perfect picture of a player who should be nothing but putback -garbage points player.
Being the worst starter by efficiency on team that is 29th in efficiency and trying to blame it on team's best player is just sad.

Gordon is Magic problem. Been painted as something that he is not for over half of decade. He is best suited for >20% usage, garbage points and Thad Youngs role. Get offensive rebound ,take 3 threes a game and play defense on 8 FGA. That's his real value. Magic sad attemps to promote him into something he has no skills to play year after year made him demaged good.