Breaking up Buddy Ball

[Skin]

Trading means getting something back. People sound like we're just losing all of their contributions.

I'm for trading everyone on our team except for Fultz and Isaac, but since this is about breaking up buddy ball, the first item of business for us is getting rid of Fournier.

Luckily for us, he's raised his value back after some lackluster seasons. The best time to trade him is right now. If we don't, then we're facing an offseason where he could opt out and then... based on the way this franchise has been, we'll end up giving him a new 4 year deal starting around $20M+ on a declining contract.

Well forget that. I'm done with this direction. We need change.

[Xatticus]

Ideally I'd like to see both gone.

Vucevic has the skill set to be useful, but you'd have to cut a lot of the crap out of his game and that contract is a problem. I don't think you could get off of that contract without attaching significant value though, so we are stuck with him. A team might be willing to take a bad contract that is winding down, but nobody is going to want to commit $25M per year the next four years to Vucevic. He isn't anyone's missing piece and that contract comes with a lot of opportunity cost attached.

I loathe Fournier's game. I want him gone yesterday. His job should be to camp in a corner and wait for the pass out of the pick-and-roll. His off ball movement is lethargic unless it is a play drawn up for him and you can't trust his willingness to distribute the ball if you put it in his hands.

[zaymon]

First we must trade Gordon who is really terrible for us. If Fultz is recovered, we have real nba starter at sf and we are still struggling then i would try to trade one of Vuc/Fournier. Right now its just stupid, no player tandem will work with below average rookie pg and Gordon. I dont even mention offensively limited Isaac who really needs to develop, Iwundu who is barely rotation player, Birch who is a backup and MCW who was out of the league last season (and is good for us)

[SHAQ32]

I think we should keep both, depending on how much Evan wants on his new deal. I would ideally just want Evan in a 6th man scoring role though. Trade Ross.

[BlueBalls]

Both. But don't stop there. Trade Coin Toss & Gordon too. This franchise needs to rip the band-aid off and start fresh.

Said all this crap this past off-season and during the season as well. Strangely, WeHam didn't listen. They're a couple of unimaginative, gutless hacks. They can exeunt as well.

[penny_nz]

Honestly watching the last few games now than Evan and Vuc are fully fit and back together has just hammered home something needs to change. It's the same basketball we've been watching for years, with the same cornerstone pieces. When they are separated by necessity, the style changes and gives opportunities to see what we have in other people and let them grow. We KNOW what we have with these two, and its not awful, its not even bad, but its not winning, playoff calibre offense as your 1st/2nd choice players. I just don't know if we'd be able to get a major upgrade in return.

[shadrock]

Trade them. Let us start to repair the mess they have turned this team into.

[shadrock]

I don't know how much you could expect to get for an expiring Evan. If we were to trade Vuc for a creator/leader, I could see Fournier doing better playing off of a superior offensive player, instead of forcing or feeling like he has to force bad shots. He can definitely shoot and that shouldn't be undervalued.

I think the Buddy Ball narrative is over played...if somebody else on this team could score reliably, Clifford wouldn't let it reign. As excited as I get for Fultz/Harden every 5th game -it's still fantasy...Trade everyone but Isaac for Beal.

i think that is what people dont seem to understand. A coach is paid to win. he is using the best tools available. If he doesnt win, he is fired. of course he is going to lean on the veterans

I believe Clifford THINKS hes using his best tools available, but i think hes wrong in his assessment.

[PrimeThyme]

I'm ready to start talking about breaking up this basketball operations. Hammond is a fraud who made his career of drafting Giannis and Weltman is a fraud who made his career off of Masai Ujiri. Both need to go, but Martins can't be the one hiring their replacements.

We are 3 years into this and we are heading straight towards another rebuild which would leave us right where they started. Outside of Isaac and Fultz they have quite honestly done nothing worth noting. The roster construction somehow is worse than the mess they inherited and Vuc/Fournier are still our "best" two players.

If that alone is not a fireable offense I don't know what is.

[Def Swami]

I think it's time. Probably should break it up and see what can be had for both. Fournier should probably get dealt given his pending free agency. Losing an asset for nothing would be mismanagement, and re-signing him to a longer deal would just be torturous and set us for treadmill failure.

Vucevic is a really good player. I don't mind keeping him, but he has real value around the league. And it might just be time to change the dynamic of this team.

[SD2042]

Fournier's contract year is a concern for the Magic. How much will he get from a team that's vying for his services as a RFA?The team has to be careful about how to proceed with his current deal. I'm on the side to trade him while his value is high right now. You never know if the team will get this chance again.

As for Vuc, I'm on the side of keeping him as Mo hasn't develop his game as of yet. If Mo proves to have his game down pat by the time in another year or two, then I would re-visit the Vuc trade angle during that time.

[pepe1991]

Evan can easly pick up player's option and wait for 2021 because that a year where big money will fly around. He will be in that case, 29 years old free agent, more than capable of catching 3-4 years contract worth $13-20M. Makes way more sense for him to do that than to opt out now , in 2020 FA where nobody has money.

[paperboymafia]

I'm a fan of both, as players and individuals, but I don't see how they can take us further then last years peak.

I'm ready to sing from a hymn sheet that does not include Evan or Vuc.



Sent from my LG-H930 using RealGM mobile app

[j-ragg]

Evan can easly pick up player's option and wait for 2021 because that a year where big money will fly around. He will be in that case, 29 years old free agent, more than capable of catching 3-4 years contract worth $13-20M. Makes way more sense for him to do that than to opt out now , in 2020 FA where nobody has money.

True but obviously he’d make much more money with free agency status after the season he’s currently having than the season he had last year. Would make a big difference in $$ imo.

[tiderulz]

Evan can easly pick up player's option and wait for 2021 because that a year where big money will fly around. He will be in that case, 29 years old free agent, more than capable of catching 3-4 years contract worth $13-20M. Makes way more sense for him to do that than to opt out now , in 2020 FA where nobody has money.

True but obviously he’d make much more money with free agency status after the season he’s currently having than the season he had last year. Would make a big difference in $$ imo.

the other thing, which i havent looked up, who is a free agent this summer. If there is a lack of player, he stands to make more money from teams with limited options.

[SD2042]

Here's a question worth asking. For those in the "Trade Fournier" camp. If he's traded from the Magic, what do you expect the Magic to get back in return?

Keep in mind the issues for the Magic.

Signs of mediocrity
Fournier's RFA status
Will the move signal a semi-rebuild or improve the Magic standing right now
The trade value of Fournier. What is his value worth realistically?


To those in the "Keep Fournier" do you think that Fournier is beneficial to the Magic both currently and for the future?

Keep in mind of the benefits for the Magic

Scoring option for the Magic
Complimentary piece for the team
Can he improve his states beyond his RFA contract
Will his production as a SG help catapult the Magic further up the playoff rankings

[NSB_Magic]

Here's a question worth asking. For those in the "Trade Fournier" camp. If he's traded from the Magic, what do you expect the Magic to get back in return?

Keep in mind the issues for the Magic.

Signs of mediocrity
Fournier's RFA status
Will the move signal a semi-rebuild or improve the Magic standing right now
The trade value of Fournier. What is his value worth realistically?


To those in the "Keep Fournier" do you think that Fournier is beneficial to the Magic both currently and for the future?

Keep in mind of the benefits for the Magic

Scoring option for the Magic
Complimentary piece for the team
Can he improve his states beyond his RFA contract
Will his production as a SG help catapult the Magic further up the playoff rankings

Sorry man, there is too much frustration and vile in here for that kind of analytical dialogue.

[Skybox]

Here's a question worth asking. For those in the "Trade Fournier" camp. If he's traded from the Magic, what do you expect the Magic to get back in return?

Keep in mind the issues for the Magic.

Signs of mediocrity
Fournier's RFA status
Will the move signal a semi-rebuild or improve the Magic standing right now
The trade value of Fournier. What is his value worth realistically?


To those in the "Keep Fournier" do you think that Fournier is beneficial to the Magic both currently and for the future?

Keep in mind of the benefits for the Magic

Scoring option for the Magic
Complimentary piece for the team
Can he improve his states beyond his RFA contract
Will his production as a SG help catapult the Magic further up the playoff rankings

Sorry man, there is too much frustration and vile in here for that kind of analytical dialogue.

I really like both players but I don’t like this team...if we pay Evan what he’s worth (just like we paid AG and Vuc what they are worth, with JI and Fultz next up for raises), then this IS our team. Good team-So what? If we were healthy and improved this year, we’d probably be fighting for 5 or 6 seed...as a fan, I’m ready for a different look and I promise to forgive a risk taken and missed on (like I have before).

[Bensational]

For me, it all starts with moving Vuc, first. That's tantamount to changing the direction of the offense moving forwards. Then I look at Fournier and consider the repercussions of resigning him to any deal larger than what he's on, and factor in that between him and Gordon/Isaac one of them needs to be a secondary playmaker and we're already trading Vuc as the 'prize' of the deal. Conclusion, may as well roll Fournier into the deal (or broader series of deals) since we'll likely use Vuc to try to swap for our replacement 'star'.

Ie, Vuc for D'Lo. (This could happen via an unlikely direct swap, or it could happen with a 3rd team involved who gives up the pieces for GSW). Now we've got our SG of the future, and no need for Fournier. But we do need another interim C to hold the post for Bamba, and for this season at least we need more forward depth and help. So we could get better value flipping Fournier (+ DJ?) for Gallo + Noel to address those needs in the short term. In the summer we can reassess.

[Skin]

I've exhausted all words in terms of never wanting to sign Fournier or Vuc in the first place. Saw this coming miles away.... and there while there were many who thought alike, it's good to hear that most are acknowledging the mess we are in now.

In a vacuum each player we have could have a significant role on a contender, but our FO has failed to recognize that the total make up and chemistry of this team doesn't harmonize.

Had we kept Oladipo over Fournier the leadership and identity would've been so much better and we would be further along, but that's too many moons ago now.

Time to shed salary, trade for expirings, draft picks, and/or young players yet to hit stride. Is that too hard to ask for? Is Vuc and Fournier at least able to do that?

I will say... one new relevation for me this year is that AG can go too. I tried to be in his corner, but his play no longer matches his pay and there is no more upside left to hope for.