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Summer Trades...never too early

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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#401 » by J the Drafter » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:02 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:It’s one thing to disagree with what AG’s trade value is. Saying AG is untradeable outside of him not wanting to resign here in 2 years is absolutely ridiculous.

Fair enough. I just don’t see a way in which we include him in a trade and get a better player back.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#402 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:19 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:It’s one thing to disagree with what AG’s trade value is. Saying AG is untradeable outside of him not wanting to resign here in 2 years is absolutely ridiculous.

Fair enough. I just don’t see a way in which we include him in a trade and get a better player back.


The Nets are rumored to be in love with Gordon. With Irving, Dinwiddie and Levert they have an imbalance. For arguments sake, let’s say they came with a big offer of:

Chris Levert + 2020 FRP (from LAC — currently #19).

We would then own multiple mid first rounders this year and have ammunition to move around in the draft and target a player we covet.

It doesn’t always have to be just one move.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#403 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:25 am

Skybox wrote:Regarding Evan's PO...do players with options have the ability to (have their agent) call around and solicit offers prior to deciding whether to opt-in? I'm sure it's done either way, but can it be done out in the open without any tampering issues? I would assume Evan, in particular, would want to know what opportunities are out there for long term $$$ before opting in for one year. He had a very good statistical year and with the limited number of FA's out there this summer, he might get a nice offer and a bigger role (ATL?) from one of the few teams with cap room rather than going naked next summer.


From cbs sports article about impact of coronavirus on nba

No matter how you slice it, there are players and teams that are going to be hurt by this lost revenue. The most obvious group is 2020 free agents. As it stood before the stoppage, only six teams figured to have meaningful cap space this summer: The Hawks, Knicks, Pistons, Hornets, Suns and Heat. Five of those teams are rebuilding. Veterans looking to cash in were going to have a hard time this summer to begin with. Now, if some of the very limited cap space is off of the table? Things will be even harder. Expect almost any player with an option for next season to pick it up and try his luck in 2021.


And in open market in football(soccer) estimated worth drop of top class players such as Neymar is jaw dropping.
His estimated value before all this on open market was 144 000 000 euros. Now? Well, 30 000 000 less.
And this is less than 2 months since games got shut down, keep in mind summer won't help, there is no world cup, Euro got postponed. NBA nor football can't really recover losses from this season. If they try to do it, they are hindering next year.

Sports economy is being hit harder than probably most others mostly because top sports profit was too inflated to being with. No disrespect to anybody nor any athlete ,but nobody should make $50M a year for running with ball.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#404 » by drsd » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:57 am

MagicFan101 wrote:The days of the John Stockton PGs are dead, kid.


I do not agree. Chris Paul is a "John Stockton PG". And moving forward, Ja Morant also looks as a "John Stockton PG".

I agree that in today's NBA a team needs multiple ball handlers, but assist-first PGs are still players a team can build around.


In this vain: as this is a trade thread, Jordan McLaughlin has a lot of skills I can see useful for Orlando moving to a new primary back-up. Or an elite 3rd stringer if Carter-Williams continues with Orlando. I really, really like McLaughlin's game.


..
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#405 » by drsd » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:03 am

MagicFan101 wrote:The Nets are rumored to be in love with Gordon. With Irving, Dinwiddie and Levert they have an imbalance. For arguments sake, let’s say they came with a big offer of:

Chris Levert + 2020 FRP (from LAC — currently #19).

We would then own multiple mid first rounders this year and have ammunition to move around in the draft and target a player we covet.

It doesn’t always have to be just one move.


Orlando needs a new SG of its future. This trade is not a horrible idea. Salaries need to match.

The Magic can use the 19 to draft a stash-able player (as Okeke and two rookie is insanity). Indeed trading DOWN to Dallas at 31 for the rights to Leandro Bolmaro and a 2021 FRP from Dallas could work in the use of this asset.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#406 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:12 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:The days of the John Stockton PGs are dead, kid.


I do not agree. Chris Paul is a "John Stockton PG". And moving forward, Ja Morant also looks as a "John Stockton PG".

I agree that in today's NBA a team needs multiple ball handlers, but assist-first PGs are still players a team can build around.


In this vain: as this is a trade thread, Jordan McLaughlin has a lot of skills I can see useful for Orlando moving to a new primary back-up. Or an elite 3rd stringer if Carter-Williams continues with Orlando. I really, really like McLaughlin's game.


..



Chris Paul is 34 years old and quickly getting phased out of the game.

Ja Morant!!?? That is who reminds you of John Stockton? ... I’m done.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#407 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 1, 2020 8:10 am

Why is "John Stockton" PG bad thing?
It's not like guy couldn't shoot. He finished career, in era where teams did not shoot 3s with 38% for 3 on 2200 attemps in regular season , while being career 45% mid range shooter ( and 83% FT shooter)
In today's era John Stockton would be more valuable than in era he played. Especially because he wasn't strongest player ( 6'1- 170 ), while playing in era where teams got away with pure bullying.

Pass first PGs last decade "don't work" because guys like Rondo, Rubio, Payton or now Simmons who represent that notion -flat out can't shoot to save their lifes, and because of it , they have limited (or no value ) on offense when they don't have ball in their hands, and non of them is good enough to be worth commiting whole offense through.

Maybe Simmons, just because of his size, athletics and weight, but he also lacks motor to bully smaller players all the time and has games where he simply isn't ingaged or interested into playing to his full potential.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#408 » by drsd » Fri May 1, 2020 1:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Why is "John Stockton" PG bad thing?
It's not like guy couldn't shoot. He finished career, in era where teams did not shoot 3s with 38% for 3 on 2200 attemps in regular season , while being career 45% mid range shooter ( and 83% FT shooter)
In today's era John Stockton would be more valuable than in era he played. Especially because he wasn't strongest player ( 6'1- 170 ), while playing in era where teams got away with pure bullying.

Pass first PGs last decade "don't work" because guys like Rondo, Rubio, Payton or now Simmons who represent that notion -flat out can't shoot to save their lifes, and because of it , they have limited (or no value ) on offense when they don't have ball in their hands, and non of them is good enough to be worth commiting whole offense through.

Maybe Simmons, just because of his size, athletics and weight, but he also lacks motor to bully smaller players all the time and has games where he simply isn't ingaged or interested into playing to his full potential.


And-1

Also: Stockton was one of the 5 best ever defensive PGs. He was not only lock-down (nearly to Payton Sr. levels), but he was a total A-hole on man-defense leading to head games. Stockton's steals mark is 18% better than the 2nd best ever NBA steal mark (from Jason Kidd); he was nearly Jordanesque in his trash-talking capacity.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#409 » by Max Power » Fri May 1, 2020 2:20 pm

Nothing wrong with being a John Stockton point guard. He could do it all, but his primary job was giving one of the NBA’s best offensive weapons ever the ball. Malone is number 2 all time. Stockton could defend, shoot and was tough as nails while being a Hall of Famer himself. Most PG’s now would get destroyed by Stockton.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#410 » by drsd » Fri May 1, 2020 2:27 pm

Max Power wrote:Most PG’s now would get destroyed by Stockton.


Stockton would be awesome in today's NBA indeed!

Yes all teams need two ball handlers today. Can one fathom Stockton playing on a SF where he could run off of the ball? My brain hurts thinking how wonderful Stockton would be on the receiving side of PnR plays,


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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#411 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 1, 2020 9:25 pm

Having a “John Stockton” type would be amazing IF you have the weapons on offense to support. Just like Rondo and the Celtics, they had the firepower to make it work with multiple Hall of Famers. It’s more about the team dynamic than anything else.

Now, would I rather have a point guard that can knock down a consistent 3 in place of better playmaking? Probably. Why? Because with the latter you are banking on Orlando landing that other talent offensively.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#412 » by MagicFan101 » Fri May 1, 2020 9:47 pm

No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#413 » by drsd » Sat May 2, 2020 11:20 am

MagicFan101 wrote:No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.


This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.


..
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#414 » by MagicFan101 » Sat May 2, 2020 12:34 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.


This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.

..



If AG Gordon and Fultz become 40% 3pt shooters and Evan becomes the ultimate team player while my wife accepts a Victoria Secret model as our 3rd love interest ...

Sure, all sounds reasonable.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#415 » by Skybox » Sat May 2, 2020 1:50 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.


This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.

..



If AG Gordon and Fultz become 40% 3pt shooters and Evan becomes the ultimate team player while my wife accepts a Victoria Secret model as our 3rd love interest ...

Sure, all sounds reasonable.


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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#416 » by MagicFan101 » Sat May 2, 2020 1:52 pm

Skybox wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
drsd wrote:
This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.

..



If AG Gordon and Fultz become 40% 3pt shooters and Evan becomes the ultimate team player while my wife accepts a Victoria Secret model as our 3rd love interest ...

Sure, all sounds reasonable.


Can she cook?


We’re supporting Uber Eats drivers in this difficult time ...
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#417 » by Skybox » Sat May 2, 2020 5:47 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.


This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.


..


How many players in the NBA shoot 40% on at least 4 attempts per game?
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#418 » by MagicFan101 » Sat May 2, 2020 6:24 pm

Skybox wrote:
drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:No one said “John Stockton is bad” — I said teams today aren’t relying on a single ball handler.

The point being Fultz doesn’t need to be elite at every skill set right here right now today ... if ever. We can appreciate the hand full of things he already does at a very high or even boarder line level already while aiming for getting on board with the modern small ball movement and finding him a complimentary backcourt running mate. TOGETHER, they can cover all bases on offense while being lethal on defense.


This might be the argument to keep Godon, such that the Magic run their offence from the 4 and the 1.

EDIT: If both Fultz and Godon got the three ball numbers to 40%+ on at least 4 attempts each a game, the Magic with its current roster is a title contender.


..


How many players in the NBA shoot 40% on at least 4 attempts per game?


Let’s go back to last season as the most recent complete NBA season:

Answer = 14

Somehow we get 2? ... from two of our lesser shooters no less?
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#419 » by drsd » Tue May 5, 2020 9:38 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
Skybox wrote:How many players in the NBA shoot 40% on at least 4 attempts per game?


Let’s go back to last season as the most recent complete NBA season:

Answer = 14

Somehow we get 2? ... from two of our lesser shooters no less?


I counted 18, but yes this is a low number.
So I did the sorting and it is an interesting list of names for 40% on 4 3PA per game:
NBA.com link = 18 players
(( spoiler alert: Fournier is one of the 18 ))

Taking it to 39% on 3.9 3PA per game leads to 30 players:
NBA.com link = 30 players

And Taking it to 38% on 3.8 3PA per game leads to 39 players:
NBA.com link = 39 players



Changing the narrative, the league averages are 35.8%. So taking that to 36% with 4 3PA per game leads to 65 players:
NBA.com link = 65 players


I would think these are nice goals for Fultz and Gordon, and getting anywhere these numbers that would lead to more Magic wins.



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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#420 » by MagicFan101 » Tue May 5, 2020 1:09 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Skybox wrote:How many players in the NBA shoot 40% on at least 4 attempts per game?


Let’s go back to last season as the most recent complete NBA season:

Answer = 14

Somehow we get 2? ... from two of our lesser shooters no less?


I counted 18, but yes this is a low number.
So I did the sorting and it is an interesting list of names for 40% on 4 3PA per game:
NBA.com link = 18 players
(( spoiler alert: Fournier is one of the 18 ))

Taking it to 39% on 3.9 3PA per game leads to 30 players:
NBA.com link = 30 players

And Taking it to 38% on 3.8 3PA per game leads to 39 players:
NBA.com link = 39 players



Changing the narrative, the league averages are 35.8%. So taking that to 36% with 4 3PA per game leads to 65 players:
NBA.com link = 65 players


I would think these are nice goals for Fultz and Gordon, and getting anywhere these numbers that would lead to more Magic wins.



..


I said I used the last complete season which is 2018-2019. The correct number of regular season cases according to ESPN Stats is 14. We are on pace for 20 such cases in 2019-2020. So I have no idea where you’re getting 18.

Regardless, the trend is up this year if a few of those guys at the end can maintain those shooting numbers.

Still, even if we push this out to the 65 number you’re speaking of ... Let’s put our thinking caps on and ask ourselves what that really means. This says you have approx 2 elite shooters per team if talent is equally distributed.

So for all the things they do well, are we expecting shooting to be what Fultz or Gordon become ELITE at?

Fultz’s passing, cutting, finishing and defense are elite. His shooting is developing but I don’t see it ever getting to that level. I would see us pairing him with shooters and smart athletes who can take advantage of his vision to build a great TEAM!!

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