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Summer Trades...never too early

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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#461 » by Knightro » Sun Jun 7, 2020 3:12 pm

You can't deny that Lonzo has tangibly improved his game from year 1 to year 3. There's been legitimate strides made there.

His FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TS% have all improved each year of his career. Those percentages aren't all where they need to be, but they're all trending up.

He had a positive ORPM and DRPM this year with New Orleans, one of only 14 NBA point guards to do that.

He's a solid defender, good rebounder and passer. He's turned himself into a solid spot shooter.

Lonzo's big problem is that he just isn't very explosive with the ball in his hands. He has a hard time getting to the rim and basically never draws fouls.

I could see LaMelo being a very similar player. Perhaps even a better pure passer. But a lot of the same issues of avoiding contact and lack of explosion near the basket.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#462 » by j-ragg » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:04 pm

Knightro wrote:I could see LaMelo being a very similar player. Perhaps even a better pure passer. But a lot of the same issues of avoiding contact and lack of explosion near the basket.

I always saw Lonzo as a pass-first dude even to his own detriment, I see LaMelo the opposite way. Scorer first, who plays like he's on the and1 mixtape tour and sucks up usage.

I agree though Lonzo made big strides, I can appreciate finding his role like he did. he's not a star and won't ever be a go-to guy but there's definitely a need for his type of ability. But I didn't think he'd be a star because he couldn't really score (even though he has intangibles outside of scoring). I think LaMelo is being billed as his brother but a scorer which is crazy to me given his offensive numbers. I'm wrong all the time though and have no problem admitting it. Just don't really see it with him.

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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#463 » by Mattya » Sun Jun 7, 2020 10:14 pm

Skybox wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Just noticing some Twolves fans really want AG. Not sure they have any salaries that can matchup. Some floated Culver and the two first round picks they have this year. One, that doesn't matchup and two, we don't need that many rookies.

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Imo, MIN trade has to start with Beasley +... I thought AG to Denver for Beasley/Hernangomez might’ve worked. I like AG fit next to Towns but I definitely value AG and hope he’s not gifted for pennies. Maybe a re-signed Beasley and a pick, I think Langford & Beasley might be too much to ask. AG brings a dimension they lack.


I think a lot of Wolves fans want Gordon, but the only poster who has suggested the price you here has 186 posts. Most Wolves fans are on board with trading back in the draft for the Magic pick, Gordon, +, or something along the lines of Johnson, Brooklyn pick, Wolves second rounder or other bit pieces like Spellman and Nowell.

As for Beasley. I highly doubt they want to move on from him unless they have his replacement lined up.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#464 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 7, 2020 10:37 pm

j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Looking at Lamelo and comparing him to Lonzo, he is bigger, looks to have better frame ( comparing to Lonzo's college outlook), less broken jumpshot and even looks like better athlete.
Having 6'8 player comfortable with ball in his hands is definition of need for every contender.

Interesting hearing you say that. Thought you've been more of the critical ones of Ball (along w/ me).

I get he's taller but to me he has a lot of the Lonzo deficiencies. He can dribble in terms of breaking down a pick and roll but same as his brother I don't think he can get in the lane and finish. He doesn't (didn't) get to the line much overseas but took a **** ton of jumpers, which he was terrible at. He does have decent raw stats with rebounding/assists. Wish they had a usage percentage from his time overseas I'd guess it's not far from Westbrook level.

17 ppg on 16.7 shots per game. 46 TS% and I don't think he'll ever be good on defense or All-NBA caliber on D like his brother but Lonzo didn't show that before he came in the league much either.

I agree with you though that type of player is necessary I just don't think he'll get there. I have no clue why LaMelo is even in contention for #1 pick. If his name was Jason Smith I suspect he might not even be in the 1st round.


He is 6'8 player that can play pick&roll and is athletic yet mobile enough to be considered ballhandler. That's already enough to be viewed as good prospect.
Also according to Lonzo, Lamelo is by far most talented kid in family, and Lonzo seems to be at very worst, solid nba starter / rotation player at age of 22-23.

I stil don't like Ball family but he is player that teams should consider. And from what i can see, most teams do. Wizards sent scouts to Australia to follow him, and i assume they are not only team that did it. There has to be something about him that makes him so high in all mocks.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#465 » by J-Mezzy » Mon Jun 8, 2020 10:19 pm

Any interest in picking up Jamal Crawford for added bench scoring?

We already have Ross but our bench scoring is sad
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#466 » by dsg2021 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 4:34 am

Lamelo looks better than Lonzo, and is a Jason Kidd 3 pointer away from making a big impact (as just one of the many ways to reach big impact player).

But you look at the impact of semi-similar players and its not so impressive record-wise. You’re basically hoping for the upper limit, a Ben Simmons type of impact. I’ve been looking at him and RJ Hampton, because they look so promising in many areas, but that shooting..
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#467 » by j-ragg » Tue Jun 9, 2020 1:51 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Looking at Lamelo and comparing him to Lonzo, he is bigger, looks to have better frame ( comparing to Lonzo's college outlook), less broken jumpshot and even looks like better athlete.
Having 6'8 player comfortable with ball in his hands is definition of need for every contender.

Interesting hearing you say that. Thought you've been more of the critical ones of Ball (along w/ me).

I get he's taller but to me he has a lot of the Lonzo deficiencies. He can dribble in terms of breaking down a pick and roll but same as his brother I don't think he can get in the lane and finish. He doesn't (didn't) get to the line much overseas but took a **** ton of jumpers, which he was terrible at. He does have decent raw stats with rebounding/assists. Wish they had a usage percentage from his time overseas I'd guess it's not far from Westbrook level.

17 ppg on 16.7 shots per game. 46 TS% and I don't think he'll ever be good on defense or All-NBA caliber on D like his brother but Lonzo didn't show that before he came in the league much either.

I agree with you though that type of player is necessary I just don't think he'll get there. I have no clue why LaMelo is even in contention for #1 pick. If his name was Jason Smith I suspect he might not even be in the 1st round.


He is 6'8 player that can play pick&roll and is athletic yet mobile enough to be considered ballhandler. That's already enough to be viewed as good prospect.
Also according to Lonzo, Lamelo is by far most talented kid in family, and Lonzo seems to be at very worst, solid nba starter / rotation player at age of 22-23.

I stil don't like Ball family but he is player that teams should consider. And from what i can see, most teams do. Wizards sent scouts to Australia to follow him, and i assume they are not only team that did it. There has to be something about him that makes him so high in all mocks.

I hear ya. Maybe I’m just too much of a hater, I just don’t see it but I know I’m in the minority. I hope the Knicks take him.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#468 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:30 pm

NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#469 » by Tarheel » Tue Jun 9, 2020 4:09 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I'm no expert on TPEs and how they work, theoretically could we flip said TPE in another move?

I'm not sure how interested I'd be in Anthony Edwards + useless cash for JI, but the article seems to suggest that Oubre for the exception works straight up. Edwards & Oubre for JI is a deal I would be interested in.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#470 » by zaymon » Tue Jun 9, 2020 4:31 pm

Tarheel wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I'm no expert on TPEs and how they work, theoretically could we flip said TPE in another move?

I'm not sure how interested I'd be in Anthony Edwards + useless cash for JI, but the article seems to suggest that Oubre for the exception works straight up. Edwards & Oubre for JI is a deal I would be interested in.

I think JI is as untouchable as it gets. Weltman's first draft pick, high character guy, Weltman almost always mentions him in interviews as a guy who makes the most improvements. Like his brother was invited to draft Okeke, it doesnt get more untouchable :P Also i would rather trade Gordon for someone like Oubre becouse i value Isaac more than Edwards, and i dont think we are at a stage where we water down our assets
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#471 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 4:34 pm

Tarheel wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I'm no expert on TPEs and how they work, theoretically could we flip said TPE in another move?

I'm not sure how interested I'd be in Anthony Edwards + useless cash for JI, but the article seems to suggest that Oubre for the exception works straight up. Edwards & Oubre for JI is a deal I would be interested in.


+ we would still have our own pick for someone like Kira Lewis.

I love me some Isaac but that is haul that even I would be hard pressed to say no to.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#472 » by Bensational » Tue Jun 9, 2020 11:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Looking at Lamelo and comparing him to Lonzo, he is bigger, looks to have better frame ( comparing to Lonzo's college outlook), less broken jumpshot and even looks like better athlete.
Having 6'8 player comfortable with ball in his hands is definition of need for every contender.

Interesting hearing you say that. Thought you've been more of the critical ones of Ball (along w/ me).

I get he's taller but to me he has a lot of the Lonzo deficiencies. He can dribble in terms of breaking down a pick and roll but same as his brother I don't think he can get in the lane and finish. He doesn't (didn't) get to the line much overseas but took a **** ton of jumpers, which he was terrible at. He does have decent raw stats with rebounding/assists. Wish they had a usage percentage from his time overseas I'd guess it's not far from Westbrook level.

17 ppg on 16.7 shots per game. 46 TS% and I don't think he'll ever be good on defense or All-NBA caliber on D like his brother but Lonzo didn't show that before he came in the league much either.

I agree with you though that type of player is necessary I just don't think he'll get there. I have no clue why LaMelo is even in contention for #1 pick. If his name was Jason Smith I suspect he might not even be in the 1st round.


He is 6'8 player that can play pick&roll and is athletic yet mobile enough to be considered ballhandler. That's already enough to be viewed as good prospect.
Also according to Lonzo, Lamelo is by far most talented kid in family, and Lonzo seems to be at very worst, solid nba starter / rotation player at age of 22-23.

I stil don't like Ball family but he is player that teams should consider. And from what i can see, most teams do. Wizards sent scouts to Australia to follow him, and i assume they are not only team that did it. There has to be something about him that makes him so high in all mocks.


LaMelo will be an interesting one to watch. MCW with flair, better pure passing instincts, less defense (but as much potential) and reason to be more optimistic about LaMelo's chances to develop a working 3-ball.

If we had him and Fultz, and both became good 3pt shooters, the playmaking potential would be next level.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#473 » by MagicMatic » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:12 am

MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I’m taking Isaac over anyone in this draft unless there is a very decent already established player attached to the pick.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#474 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:52 am

MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I’m taking Isaac over anyone in this draft unless there is a very decent already established player attached to the pick.


Some people were open to trading AG for Oubre. As someone already pointed out that same article also offered the trade expedition for Oubre straight up.

So what is “very decent” in your opinion? Decent doesn’t mean elite or star to me so If Oubre is good enough to get AG I would classify him as “decent.”

So, ultimately, Edwards + Oubre isn’t so bad if we have lost faith in Isaac remaining healthy enough to warrant that next contract.

But I say that believing completely that a healthy Isaac is a far better prospect than anyone in this class.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#475 » by MagicMatic » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:21 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


I’m taking Isaac over anyone in this draft unless there is a very decent already established player attached to the pick.


Some people were open to trading AG for Oubre. As someone already pointed out that same article also offered the trade expedition for Oubre straight up.

So what is “very decent” in your opinion? Decent doesn’t mean elite or star to me so If Oubre is good enough to get AG I would classify him as “decent.”

So, ultimately, Edwards + Oubre isn’t so bad if we have lost faith in Isaac remaining healthy enough to warrant that next contract.

But I say that believing completely that a healthy Isaac is a far better prospect than anyone in this class.


I don’t view AG‘s upside anywhere close to Isaacs fwiw. AG is a “decent” player. He’s closer to a role player than a “star”. I’ve seen him play basketball since 2014 and it’s 2020.

Maybe some GM would do Isaac for Oubre + Edwards, but this FO wouldn’t because he’s their only acquisition that had made sense outside of picking up Fultz on a flier. To be honest, I wouldn’t trade Isaac if I were them either.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#476 » by AdamTheGreek » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:41 am

MagicFan101 wrote:NBC Sports has an article about trade targets for the Warriors to pair their Exception + 1st round pick possibly #1 overall).

On that list in Jonathan Isaac.

I am a HUGE Isaac fan and I am not a big fan of anyone at the top of this draft class. So my first thought is — GTFOOH!!!

... but as these injuries keep piling up and a new contract looms I have to remain open minded and ask the audience if this is a deal to consider.


JI is our most untradeable player on this roster. More than Fultz, Mo, anyone. I think the Magic would consider dealing AG for the #1 pick. If Aaron gives any hint that he'd prefer to be on the West Coast near home, you have to pull that trigger. But JI is our best potential asset on both ends of the floor. We're not trading him in when no one in this draft is better than what JI will be.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#477 » by Bensational » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:43 pm

I wonder if the Raps would trade Norman Powell? $10M a year with 2 seasons left on his contract, he's putting up 16ppg in 28mpg this season, on 63% TS% and 40% from 3 (on 5 attempts, 11fgas overall), adding 1.3spg.

But over the last 15 games he was playing 33mpg and averaging 23ppg, shooting 52% on 15.7fgas with 39% from 3 on 7 attempts, and 5FTAs a game.

It's more or less what Fournier is doing, but with better defense and costing $7M less a season. He's not the kind of guy you trade for expecting a star, but he could come in relatively affordably and play himself up into bigger value with more of a lead role.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#478 » by axl_c_cool » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:13 pm

Trading JI shouldn't and won't happen. I'm not sure he can be a 'star', he can 100% be a secondary star and a key piece on a winning team, he is what Aaron Gordon should have been and I'm a Gordon fan. Looking forward to the franchises future it seems clear to me that it will go as follows

- Summer 2020: Aaron Gordon traded
- Summer 2021: Vucevic + Fournier (if not traded in February left to expire) + Ross (possibly)

That will leave us in 2021 with

Fultz
Okeke
Isaac
Bamba
+ picks


With trading Gordon the draft will be the key and I will be rooting for the Warriors to get the #1 pick. I want Gordon to do well, we haven't developed him or play to his style of play. Golden State seems like a good fit for him, it just depends on what the package would be that would suit everyone. Fultz/Edwards/Okeke/Isaac/Bamba would be a nice core to move forward with.
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#479 » by Skybox » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:03 pm

ORL sends: AG and TRoss
BOS sends: Hayward and Langford

*This post is also a question...can teams and agents be discussing extensions with about to be UFA's (or in this case player option guys)?

Even is Hayward was willing to opt out of his last year for a more reasonable but still strong 3 or 4 year deal, it would be more than BOS should play a guy who is marginalized by the emergence of youngsters. They move him for two guys who are ready to contribute to a contender NOW (for slightly more money, Hayward gets say 25 where AG &TR cost about 30). Langford has done nothing but may become something, so he's a sweetener for ORL's 2 starter quality players for one deal...I shudder to think how good AG could do as the 4th or 5th offensive threat on the team, able to lockdown on guys with Smart and be opportunistic on offense, playing off of the stars. TRoss plays the same role as flamethrower off the bench...Hayward is the secondary playmaker, probably leading scorer, true wing forward we need with a solid veteran star presence. Langford gets an opportunity he wasn't getting in BOS to show why he was a high pick. Lineup below has much more offensive firepower than before. Guys like Okeke, Langford, pick15 can be moved around quite a bit as they show promise too. Fournier's opting-in is assumed but could also be broached about a new, longer, reasonable deal...even if the plan was to move him at some point. Fournier could be subbed into the trade for TRoss but BOS needs to cost-control and, let's face it, Evan can put up bigger numbers than TRoss and that's what we need. Hayward and Vuc as secondary ball-movers with Fultz as the primary ball handler and penetrator could be a whole different offensive picture.

Vuc/Bamba/Birch
Isaac/Aminu
Hayward/Okeke/Langford
Fournier/#15/Ennis
Fultz/DJ?/MCW
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Re: Summer Trades...never too early 

Post#480 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:58 pm

Skybox wrote:ORL sends: AG and TRoss
BOS sends: Hayward and Langford

*This post is also a question...can teams and agents be discussing extensions with about to be UFA's (or in this case player option guys)?

Even is Hayward was willing to opt out of his last year for a more reasonable but still strong 3 or 4 year deal, it would be more than BOS should play a guy who is marginalized by the emergence of youngsters. They move him for two guys who are ready to contribute to a contender NOW (for slightly more money, Hayward gets say 25 where AG &TR cost about 30). Langford has done nothing but may become something, so he's a sweetener for ORL's 2 starter quality players for one deal...I shudder to think how good AG could do as the 4th or 5th offensive threat on the team, able to lockdown on guys with Smart and be opportunistic on offense, playing off of the stars. TRoss plays the same role as flamethrower off the bench...Hayward is the secondary playmaker, probably leading scorer, true wing forward we need with a solid veteran star presence. Langford gets an opportunity he wasn't getting in BOS to show why he was a high pick. Lineup below has much more offensive firepower than before. Guys like Okeke, Langford, pick15 can be moved around quite a bit as they show promise too. Fournier's opting-in is assumed but could also be broached about a new, longer, reasonable deal...even if the plan was to move him at some point. Fournier could be subbed into the trade for TRoss but BOS needs to cost-control and, let's face it, Evan can put up bigger numbers than TRoss and that's what we need. Hayward and Vuc as secondary ball-movers with Fultz as the primary ball handler and penetrator could be a whole different offensive picture.

Vuc/Bamba/Birch
Isaac/Aminu
Hayward/Okeke/Langford
Fournier/#15/Ennis
Fultz/DJ?/MCW

I like it, but i dont know if Boston bites. Hayward and Stevens have long relationship, and Langford still has a lot of potential.
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