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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1641 » by MagicMatic » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:54 am

The problem with Bamba is Vuc and the roster. If they picked him because they were playing the long game, then they should have taken MPJr (even injured) due to the fact he was heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. Now people are surprised he’s playing well? :lol:

In what world do you spend the #6 pick on a complete project that plays the same limited position as your highest usage % player? Dumb. I’m not even going to get into subsequently resigning Vuc.

That being said, I don’t think Bamba is a bust. He’s fully capable of eventually becoming a starting level Center. Mostly because the bar is low IMO for the position and level of importance. Still, taking a Center with that pick in our situation was beyond stupid.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1642 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:06 am

MagicMatic wrote:The problem with Bamba is Vuc and the roster. If they picked him because they were playing the long game, then they should have taken MPJr (even injured) due to the fact he was heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. Now people are surprised he’s playing well? :lol:

In what world do you spend the #6 pick on a complete project that plays the same limited position as your highest usage % player? Dumb. I’m not even going to get into subsequently resigning Vuc.

That being said, I don’t think Bamba is a bust. He’s fully capable of eventually becoming a starting level Center. Mostly because the bar is low IMO for the position and level of importance. Still, taking a Center with that pick in our situation was beyond stupid.


Problem with Bamba is fact that he isn't that good on his own.
Bamba would get 20 min a game if he is good enough, but on average , he doesn't even get all backup Cs min because Birch brings more energy, where Bamba is letargic and looks uninterested.

They took Bamba because they thought he is better and once they saw how raw he is, during Vučević breakout year, decision wasn't that hard.
Same happend with Biyombo and Vuc. Once they saw Biyombo is at very best, 15 min a game backup, unplayable as starter, (actually unplayable in general ) it was already too late and money was spent. In Bamba's case it's pick that was wasted.

Some of us repeat for long time that drafting C in lottery is simply waste. Just like most 6'7-6'9 college PFs , drafted to play SF almost never work. ( Winslow, Beasley, RHJ, Stanley Johnson, Turner, Shabazz Muhamed, Derrick Williams...).

Is he a bust? well he avages 5 points a game on below .500 team. That's very close to that title.
There are also guys drafted after him ,simply better than him like SGA, Porter Jr, Carter Jr, and i don't care how empty his stats are, Collin Sexton simply is more productive today, sad part is fact that 6'0 PG who is younger than him, actually shoots with bettter efficiency than 7 foot Bamba :noway:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1643 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:21 pm

MagicMatic wrote:The problem with Bamba is Vuc and the roster. If they picked him because they were playing the long game, then they should have taken MPJr (even injured) due to the fact he was heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. Now people are surprised he’s playing well? :lol:

In what world do you spend the #6 pick on a complete project that plays the same limited position as your highest usage % player? Dumb. I’m not even going to get into subsequently resigning Vuc.

That being said, I don’t think Bamba is a bust. He’s fully capable of eventually becoming a starting level Center. Mostly because the bar is low IMO for the position and level of importance. Still, taking a Center with that pick in our situation was beyond stupid.

MPJr was not heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. He had good potential, but played 1 game in college. All there was, was him in high school. A few people billed him as a possible next Durant, but mostly because of his size. but he was not as heralded as Doncic, had not accomplished anything close to what Doncic had
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1644 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:The problem with Bamba is Vuc and the roster. If they picked him because they were playing the long game, then they should have taken MPJr (even injured) due to the fact he was heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. Now people are surprised he’s playing well? :lol:

In what world do you spend the #6 pick on a complete project that plays the same limited position as your highest usage % player? Dumb. I’m not even going to get into subsequently resigning Vuc.

That being said, I don’t think Bamba is a bust. He’s fully capable of eventually becoming a starting level Center. Mostly because the bar is low IMO for the position and level of importance. Still, taking a Center with that pick in our situation was beyond stupid.


Problem with Bamba is fact that he isn't that good on his own.
Bamba would get 20 min a game if he is good enough, but on average , he doesn't even get all backup Cs min because Birch brings more energy, where Bamba is letargic and looks uninterested.

They took Bamba because they thought he is better and once they saw how raw he is, during Vučević breakout year, decision wasn't that hard.
Same happend with Biyombo and Vuc. Once they saw Biyombo is at very best, 15 min a game backup, unplayable as starter, (actually unplayable in general ) it was already too late and money was spent. In Bamba's case it's pick that was wasted.

Some of us repeat for long time that drafting C in lottery is simply waste. Just like most 6'7-6'9 college PFs , drafted to play SF almost never work. ( Winslow, Beasley, RHJ, Stanley Johnson, Turner, Shabazz Muhamed, Derrick Williams...).

Is he a bust? well he avages 5 points a game on below .500 team. That's very close to that title.
There are also guys drafted after him ,simply better than him like SGA, Porter Jr, Carter Jr, and i don't care how empty his stats are, Collin Sexton simply is more productive today, sad part is fact that 6'0 PG who is younger than him, actually shoots with bettter efficiency than 7 foot Bamba :noway:

i cant call him a bust until he gets more of a chance with playing time.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1645 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:22 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:The problem with Bamba is Vuc and the roster. If they picked him because they were playing the long game, then they should have taken MPJr (even injured) due to the fact he was heralded as equal to Doncic in potential. Now people are surprised he’s playing well? :lol:

In what world do you spend the #6 pick on a complete project that plays the same limited position as your highest usage % player? Dumb. I’m not even going to get into subsequently resigning Vuc.

That being said, I don’t think Bamba is a bust. He’s fully capable of eventually becoming a starting level Center. Mostly because the bar is low IMO for the position and level of importance. Still, taking a Center with that pick in our situation was beyond stupid.


Problem with Bamba is fact that he isn't that good on his own.
Bamba would get 20 min a game if he is good enough, but on average , he doesn't even get all backup Cs min because Birch brings more energy, where Bamba is letargic and looks uninterested.

They took Bamba because they thought he is better and once they saw how raw he is, during Vučević breakout year, decision wasn't that hard.
Same happend with Biyombo and Vuc. Once they saw Biyombo is at very best, 15 min a game backup, unplayable as starter, (actually unplayable in general ) it was already too late and money was spent. In Bamba's case it's pick that was wasted.

Some of us repeat for long time that drafting C in lottery is simply waste. Just like most 6'7-6'9 college PFs , drafted to play SF almost never work. ( Winslow, Beasley, RHJ, Stanley Johnson, Turner, Shabazz Muhamed, Derrick Williams...).

Is he a bust? well he avages 5 points a game on below .500 team. That's very close to that title.
There are also guys drafted after him ,simply better than him like SGA, Porter Jr, Carter Jr, and i don't care how empty his stats are, Collin Sexton simply is more productive today, sad part is fact that 6'0 PG who is younger than him, actually shoots with bettter efficiency than 7 foot Bamba :noway:

i cant call him a bust until he gets more of a chance with playing time.


Some players never get playing time because they suck.
Thon Maker never averaged more than 16 min a game because he never outplayed anybody for starter job, nor earn trust of his coaches to be trusted in bigger role.
And if you think that Bamba is young and has years to develop, well Maker is only year older.

Other than advanced stats who are almost all product of changed bench around him ( mainly no nba bodies like Briscoe, Grant and Martin being replaced by DJ Augustin who he spends most min with ) there is vritually no objective growth in Bamba's game from year one to year two.
He went from averaging 6,2 points a game on 52,5% eFG to 5,4 ppg on 52,6% eFG, given he played 2 min per game in year two less, his FG% also got worst, his blocks got bit better, his rebounds are unchanged, his passing , fouling and turnovers are unchanged.

This is not progressive improvment, this is player who over two years never showed any significant progress other than going from terrible ft shoots ( 58%) to now being below average one ( 67%) in both cases doesn't really matter because he shot 109 FTs in 109 games.
Same with 3 point shot where he improved his percentage, but once again, it doesn't raelly matter as he only took 177 threes over two years and some numbers point that it's impossible to know how good somebody is as shooter until we don't go over 500 shots for sample size.

People who argue for Bamba pretty much base everything they have on blind faith, because there is nothing really to objectify it. Or they use benefit of a doubt and roll with "not seen enough" . Well we heared a lot about same argument for Hezonja. How did that worked out?
The thing is, you have second year lottery pick that menagment is perfectly fine buring on the bench. Witch makes me think they don't really put too much hope he can be some franchize altering guy, rather another Malik Monk type of overdrafted player they just have to keep around and hope somebody is willing to take off their hands.


There is portion of people here who keep Vuc and Evan on superstars expetations and in same time say value of 6th pick is to become eventual starter at C. How is that not double standards?
NBA position at center has guys like McGee and Jeff Green starting during playoff games and guys like Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Powell, WSC and Tristan Thompson starting. This is not "bar" that should be that high to jump . It's actually depressing how mediocre you have to not be rotation center in today's nba. Bar is so low that even Biyombo still gets PT and gets to start from time to time. Same BIyombo few years back was worst than Mo Speights for us :lol:

When you put it all together it's really not that hard to figure 2 things:
a) drafting him was disaster
b) he has been disaster and has nobody but himself to blame for it
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1646 » by cedric76 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:56 pm

The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1647 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Problem with Bamba is fact that he isn't that good on his own.
Bamba would get 20 min a game if he is good enough, but on average , he doesn't even get all backup Cs min because Birch brings more energy, where Bamba is letargic and looks uninterested.

They took Bamba because they thought he is better and once they saw how raw he is, during Vučević breakout year, decision wasn't that hard.
Same happend with Biyombo and Vuc. Once they saw Biyombo is at very best, 15 min a game backup, unplayable as starter, (actually unplayable in general ) it was already too late and money was spent. In Bamba's case it's pick that was wasted.

Some of us repeat for long time that drafting C in lottery is simply waste. Just like most 6'7-6'9 college PFs , drafted to play SF almost never work. ( Winslow, Beasley, RHJ, Stanley Johnson, Turner, Shabazz Muhamed, Derrick Williams...).

Is he a bust? well he avages 5 points a game on below .500 team. That's very close to that title.
There are also guys drafted after him ,simply better than him like SGA, Porter Jr, Carter Jr, and i don't care how empty his stats are, Collin Sexton simply is more productive today, sad part is fact that 6'0 PG who is younger than him, actually shoots with bettter efficiency than 7 foot Bamba :noway:

i cant call him a bust until he gets more of a chance with playing time.


Some players never get playing time because they suck.
Thon Maker never averaged more than 16 min a game because he never outplayed anybody for starter job, nor earn trust of his coaches to be trusted in bigger role.
And if you think that Bamba is young and has years to develop, well Maker is only year older.

Other than advanced stats who are almost all product of changed bench around him ( mainly no nba bodies like Briscoe, Grant and Martin being replaced by DJ Augustin who he spends most min with ) there is vritually no objective growth in Bamba's game from year one to year two.
He went from averaging 6,2 points a game on 52,5% eFG to 5,4 ppg on 52,6% eFG, given he played 2 min per game in year two less, his FG% also got worst, his blocks got bit better, his rebounds are unchanged, his passing , fouling and turnovers are unchanged.

This is not progressive improvment, this is player who over two years never showed any significant progress other than going from terrible ft shoots ( 58%) to now being below average one ( 67%) in both cases doesn't really matter because he shot 109 FTs in 109 games.
Same with 3 point shot where he improved his percentage, but once again, it doesn't raelly matter as he only took 177 threes over two years and some numbers point that it's impossible to know how good somebody is as shooter until we don't go over 500 shots for sample size.

People who argue for Bamba pretty much base everything they have on blind faith, because there is nothing really to objectify it. Or they use benefit of a doubt and roll with "not seen enough" . Well we heared a lot about same argument for Hezonja. How did that worked out?
The thing is, you have second year lottery pick that menagment is perfectly fine buring on the bench. Witch makes me think they don't really put too much hope he can be some franchize altering guy, rather another Malik Monk type of overdrafted player they just have to keep around and hope somebody is willing to take off their hands.


There is portion of people here who keep Vuc and Evan on superstars expetations and in same time say value of 6th pick is to become eventual starter at C. How is that not double standards?
NBA position at center has guys like McGee and Jeff Green starting during playoff games and guys like Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Powell, WSC and Tristan Thompson starting. This is not "bar" that should be that high to jump . It's actually depressing how mediocre you have to not be rotation center in today's nba. Bar is so low that even Biyombo still gets PT and gets to start from time to time. Same BIyombo few years back was worst than Mo Speights for us :lol:

When you put it all together it's really not that hard to figure 2 things:
a) drafting him was disaster
b) he has been disaster and has nobody but himself to blame for it

it all goes back to development and Orlando doesnt do a good job of it in my opinion. I gave you my statement, I wont call him a bust until i see him with more playing time.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1648 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:05 pm

cedric76 wrote:The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board

Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1649 » by Def Swami » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm

cedric76 wrote:The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board

Is there some collective "Nikola" stock that rises whenever a "Nikola" does well?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1650 » by KillMonger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:34 pm

isn't nikola stock down though? wait.....wrong thread
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1651 » by cedric76 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm

tiderulz wrote:
cedric76 wrote:The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board

Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.


Yes he is, but big men who can do it all like vuc and jokic r getting more valuable
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1652 » by thelead » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:55 pm

cedric76 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
cedric76 wrote:The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board

Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.


Yes he is, but big men who can do it all like vuc and jokic r getting more valuable

Vuc is going nowhere unless we get a new front office.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1653 » by cedric76 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 pm

thelead wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.


Yes he is, but big men who can do it all like vuc and jokic r getting more valuable

Vuc is going nowhere unless we get a new front office.


Value is value

Value to FA or other players in the league wanting to play with him
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1654 » by Bensational » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:43 pm

KillMonger wrote:isn't nikola stock down though? wait.....wrong thread


Lol, well played. Just read about that.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1655 » by The Effect » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:29 pm

cedric76 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
cedric76 wrote:The further jokic goes the higher vuc s value goes

Vuc is so underrated on this board

Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.


Yes he is, but big men who can do it all like vuc and jokic r getting more valuable

Vuc cant do half the things Jokic can

Hell, jokic can probably play PG on offense every play if needed. Vuc camps out at the 3pt line and pick & Pops every play
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1656 » by The Effect » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:30 pm

KillMonger wrote:isn't nikola stock down though? wait.....wrong thread

This took me a second.....
Well played :lol:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1657 » by KillMonger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:32 pm

The Effect wrote:
KillMonger wrote:isn't nikola stock down though? wait.....wrong thread

This took me a second.....
Well played :lol:

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1658 » by fendilim » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 am

The Effect wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Vuc is lower tier than Jokic.


Yes he is, but big men who can do it all like vuc and jokic r getting more valuable

Vuc cant do half the things Jokic can

Hell, jokic can probably play PG on offense every play if needed. Vuc camps out at the 3pt line and pick & Pops every play

Cant blame him, thats probably by design. All of our bigs, except for probably Birch have been popping since Hennigan days. Because we have a lot of spacing problems. Which has to be addressed at some point. LOL

Quite unfortunate our bigs have most of the time been one of the best shooters on the team
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1659 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Would you guys do Vuc for Jaylon Brown?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1660 » by GelbeWand09 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:20 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:Would you guys do Vuc for Jaylon Brown?


Yea for sure, but Boston won't :lol:

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