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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1781 » by Skybox » Tue Oct 6, 2020 11:11 am

Xatticus wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Would you do this trade?

ORL out:
Gordon
Fournier (assumes opt-in)
Bamba

ORL in:
Hayward (assumes opt-in)
Smart

In Smart we get the locker room alpha we've been missing and a guy who can combine with Fultz or spell him, as he's done with Kemba.

Hayward is the SF we've needed to make this team work. It's a one -year gamble, not just that he may not resign but he may not always be healthy. His injury history overall isn't that bad tho and he'd instantly be our option 1. Shame he wouldn't get to play with JI to see what a GH/JI/NV starting frontcourt would be like. A monster, I suspect.

Boston gets a center to mould behind Theis and two important rotational pieces in AG and Evan (1yr rental) while shedding salary. Orl takes extra salary on, but the majority is Haywards and will be restructured or cleared in 2021.

We get a little older. We risk that Hayward's decline starts in Orl. 3pt% only improves incrementally. But it's a much better balanced starting 5, with more shot creation and more drive than we got from AG/Evan. I tend to think it's worth it and, while one of Bos picks to sweeten would be welcome, I'm not sure they do it.

Fultz/Smart/#15?
Smart/Ross/MCW/#15?
Hayward/Ross/Okeke/#15?
(JI)/Aminu/Okeke
Vucevic/FA/#15?


It's not bad. The issue is that we get significantly older. That's a big problem for a team that isn't competitive right now and one that doesn't have any obvious avenues to acquire talent. We get better in the short term, but we still aren't going anywhere meaningful and we are selling some of our future to get there.


We get better. Period. MIA doesn’t care about getting older...just about getting better. The long game is overrated...so many variables squash the best laid plans. I could go either direction but this baby steps crap is a farce. The bold teams lap you twice while you build your squad
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1782 » by Ducklett » Tue Oct 6, 2020 9:53 pm

Skybox wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Would you do this trade?

ORL out:
Gordon
Fournier (assumes opt-in)
Bamba

ORL in:
Hayward (assumes opt-in)
Smart

In Smart we get the locker room alpha we've been missing and a guy who can combine with Fultz or spell him, as he's done with Kemba.

Hayward is the SF we've needed to make this team work. It's a one -year gamble, not just that he may not resign but he may not always be healthy. His injury history overall isn't that bad tho and he'd instantly be our option 1. Shame he wouldn't get to play with JI to see what a GH/JI/NV starting frontcourt would be like. A monster, I suspect.

Boston gets a center to mould behind Theis and two important rotational pieces in AG and Evan (1yr rental) while shedding salary. Orl takes extra salary on, but the majority is Haywards and will be restructured or cleared in 2021.

We get a little older. We risk that Hayward's decline starts in Orl. 3pt% only improves incrementally. But it's a much better balanced starting 5, with more shot creation and more drive than we got from AG/Evan. I tend to think it's worth it and, while one of Bos picks to sweeten would be welcome, I'm not sure they do it.

Fultz/Smart/#15?
Smart/Ross/MCW/#15?
Hayward/Ross/Okeke/#15?
(JI)/Aminu/Okeke
Vucevic/FA/#15?


It's not bad. The issue is that we get significantly older. That's a big problem for a team that isn't competitive right now and one that doesn't have any obvious avenues to acquire talent. We get better in the short term, but we still aren't going anywhere meaningful and we are selling some of our future to get there.


We get better. Period. MIA doesn’t care about getting older...just about getting better. The long game is overrated...so many variables squash the best laid plans. I could go either direction but this baby steps crap is a farce. The bold teams lap you twice while you build your squad


Don't they have around 7 players 24 or under playing meaningful minutes? o.O
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1783 » by Skybox » Tue Oct 6, 2020 11:06 pm

Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
It's not bad. The issue is that we get significantly older. That's a big problem for a team that isn't competitive right now and one that doesn't have any obvious avenues to acquire talent. We get better in the short term, but we still aren't going anywhere meaningful and we are selling some of our future to get there.


We get better. Period. MIA doesn’t care about getting older...just about getting better. The long game is overrated...so many variables squash the best laid plans. I could go either direction but this baby steps crap is a farce. The bold teams lap you twice while you build your squad


Don't they have around 7 players 24 or under playing meaningful minutes? o.O


They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1784 » by Ducklett » Tue Oct 6, 2020 11:25 pm

Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
We get better. Period. MIA doesn’t care about getting older...just about getting better. The long game is overrated...so many variables squash the best laid plans. I could go either direction but this baby steps crap is a farce. The bold teams lap you twice while you build your squad


Don't they have around 7 players 24 or under playing meaningful minutes? o.O


They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived


That doesn't mean getting older though. If they start trading away Herro, Bam, and the other young guys that are playing big roles for older guys, then I would agree with you. I just don't think I call a team with that many young guys playing important minutes old.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1785 » by MagicMatic » Wed Oct 7, 2020 12:59 am

Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
We get better. Period. MIA doesn’t care about getting older...just about getting better. The long game is overrated...so many variables squash the best laid plans. I could go either direction but this baby steps crap is a farce. The bold teams lap you twice while you build your squad


Don't they have around 7 players 24 or under playing meaningful minutes? o.O


They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived


Huh? Yes they were.

Herro - Rookie - 27mpg
Nunn - Rookie - 29mpg
Robinson - Year 2 - 29.5mpg
Bam - Year 3 - 33mpg

Okeke - injured **
Fultz - Year 1 - 27mpg (not drafted)
Bamba - Year 2 - 14mpg
Isaac - Year 3 - 28mpg

So essentially Miami during the same timeframe found 4 starting level rotation players with their draft picks. Orlando finding this level of talent and playing them meaningful minutes would be miraculous. We didn’t draft Fultz so take this fwiw. Iwundu and Frazier are negligible.

Okeke will definitely be stepping into some necessary minutes next season, whether he is ready or not.

All this tells me is that Miami is either better at drafting, developing, or trusting their players. I couldn’t fathom Orlando giving 4 young players this amount of minutes. This board would explode if we took minutes away from buddy ball and their mediocre results.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1786 » by Skybox » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:00 am

Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Don't they have around 7 players 24 or under playing meaningful minutes? o.O


They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived


That doesn't mean getting older though. If they start trading away Herro, Bam, and the other young guys that are playing big roles for older guys, then I would agree with you. I just don't think I call a team with that many young guys playing important minutes old.


Definitely fair...my whole point was to get better...older, younger, whatever...I would never recommend trading young guys for old guys just for the sake of it and I definitely wouldn’t suggest trading for an obviously declining player. Hayward would instantly be our best player and he’s not retiring for a while, so...

The BIG point is that Herro, Bam, Duncan would in no way be the players they are today without Butler’s influence, leadership, and expectations of them. The right leader can change everything. We have good young players too.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1787 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:17 pm

Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived


That doesn't mean getting older though. If they start trading away Herro, Bam, and the other young guys that are playing big roles for older guys, then I would agree with you. I just don't think I call a team with that many young guys playing important minutes old.


Definitely fair...my whole point was to get better...older, younger, whatever...I would never recommend trading young guys for old guys just for the sake of it and I definitely wouldn’t suggest trading for an obviously declining player. Hayward would instantly be our best player and he’s not retiring for a while, so...

The BIG point is that Herro, Bam, Duncan would in no way be the players they are today without Butler’s influence, leadership, and expectations of them. The right leader can change everything. We have good young players too.

I would have to agree on this as well. Certain players just have an effect on others.... and if they are in sync things can flourish.... and if personalities clash it all falls apart. Hence the reason minnesota and philly did not work out. Instead of jumping on board.... the players he was paired with instead were not on the same level of intensity and fire.

Miami isn't strictly about talent... its a combination of buying into a system, knowing and playing your role, and being willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the team.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1788 » by tiderulz » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:39 pm

Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Skybox wrote:
They weren't meaningful at all until Butler arrived


That doesn't mean getting older though. If they start trading away Herro, Bam, and the other young guys that are playing big roles for older guys, then I would agree with you. I just don't think I call a team with that many young guys playing important minutes old.


Definitely fair...my whole point was to get better...older, younger, whatever...I would never recommend trading young guys for old guys just for the sake of it and I definitely wouldn’t suggest trading for an obviously declining player. Hayward would instantly be our best player and he’s not retiring for a while, so...

The BIG point is that Herro, Bam, Duncan would in no way be the players they are today without Butler’s influence, leadership, and expectations of them. The right leader can change everything. We have good young players too.

i think its more than just the right leader/alpha player too. Its the organization, developing players, getting them playing time to see how they will shake out or project. cutting ties with players if they dont
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1789 » by Mc-o » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:43 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
That doesn't mean getting older though. If they start trading away Herro, Bam, and the other young guys that are playing big roles for older guys, then I would agree with you. I just don't think I call a team with that many young guys playing important minutes old.


Definitely fair...my whole point was to get better...older, younger, whatever...I would never recommend trading young guys for old guys just for the sake of it and I definitely wouldn’t suggest trading for an obviously declining player. Hayward would instantly be our best player and he’s not retiring for a while, so...

The BIG point is that Herro, Bam, Duncan would in no way be the players they are today without Butler’s influence, leadership, and expectations of them. The right leader can change everything. We have good young players too.

i think its more than just the right leader/alpha player too. Its the organization, developing players, getting them playing time to see how they will shake out or project. cutting ties with players if they dont

Unfortunately the magic are not great at any of these aspects lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1790 » by basketballRob » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:11 pm

Chuma is live on Instagram

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1791 » by basketballRob » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:26 pm

Chuma says he feels good, but he still hasn't had any contact practice yet.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1792 » by pepe1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:43 am

So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1793 » by MoMM » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:59 am

pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."

So we can assume that DJ won't be back and they will try to get DSJr for peanuts?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1794 » by Xatticus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:51 am

pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."


Hmm... I wonder what the price tag reads for Elfrid Payton's backup's backup?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1795 » by Jiwol » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 am

pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."


Those morons just don't learn... :banghead:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1796 » by pepe1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:11 am

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."

So we can assume that DJ won't be back and they will try to get DSJr for peanuts?



I can see DJ joining some contender
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1797 » by pepe1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:13 am

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."


Hmm... I wonder what the price tag reads for Elfrid Payton's backup's backup?


On whole Knicks roster only players with some potential value are RJ Barett and Mitchell Robinson. But i would not bet any of them ends up being above average starter.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1798 » by Tarheel » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:01 am

pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."


A lot of stories have come out about Knicks trades the last couple of days - sounds like a GM leaking to generate interest or push the price up to me.

I see no world in which this FO trades a FRP for a player currently backing up a player they let go for a SRP, unless it's part of a bigger deal for the Knicks pick.

That being said, if the deal is a SRP and salary (eg Birch) to take a flyer on DSJ? Sure.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1799 » by pepe1991 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:37 am

Tarheel wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:So on front page : Magic expressing interest in Dennis Smith Jr

"The Orlando Magic have expressed interest in trading for Dennis Smith Jr.

The New York Knicks acquired Smith as part of the 2019 Kristaps Porzingis trade.

The Magic own the No. 15 overall draft selection."


A lot of stories have come out about Knicks trades the last couple of days - sounds like a GM leaking to generate interest or push the price up to me.

I see no world in which this FO trades a FRP for a player currently backing up a player they let go for a SRP, unless it's part of a bigger deal for the Knicks pick.

That being said, if the deal is a SRP and salary (eg Birch) to take a flyer on DSJ? Sure.



I'm not thrilled about idea of having PG rotation of two guards who are both : young, unproven and can't shoot.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#1800 » by zaymon » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:49 am

I think Knicks are in such a bad spot that if Weltman asked Rose about his dog we would see an articule about magic interest and possible trades the next day.
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