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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#581 » by Skybox » Fri May 29, 2020 3:14 pm

I don't think ORL will have ANY home court advantage...no crowd and no going home at night (the whole point is the quarantine advantage of "Disney Island" (I thought). If ORL players are allowed to leave, it destroys any safety measures for everyone.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#582 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 29, 2020 5:27 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:You kind of did but the other way ;) unless Okeke forgot how to shoot and defend i will take the risk with him. Pj and Herro are good rotation players, but nothing really special.


Really?
Non of them had year and half rehab due ACL tear, that alone is big factor.
Second, Herro in his frashman year was waaay better than Okeke in his. It's not even really close.

Not only that, we know for fact that both Herro and Washington can contribute right away ( both at 12-13 ppg range ) . It's yet to be seen what Okeke can bring.

Okeke's realistic expetation is to be role player off bench for Orlando, until and if he proves he is more than that. With Aminu,Gordon,Isaac he won't play much anyway any time soon.

I dont know if Chuma will be better, but i like his upside. Its hard to predict development, but his progression rate in college was steep. I would rather bet on 6'7/6'8 forward with 7 foot wingspan and elite team defense, shooting 38% from 3 point range than 6'5 shooting guard with negative wingspan and average at best team defense. I am very curious how miami defense will function in playoffs, Adebayo will have a lot of work.


Shooting 38% at college is solid indicator of ok jumpshot but on greater scale doesn't really mean much.
Lonzo was like +40% three point shooter at college, Malik Monk was 40% three point shooter...

I still don't see hype. Good defense, solid jumpshot... What esle? He is undersized PF and not skilled ballhandler or shot creator at SF.

In my eyes he is similar type of talent PJ Washington is. Glue guy.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#583 » by zaymon » Fri May 29, 2020 7:39 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Really?
Non of them had year and half rehab due ACL tear, that alone is big factor.
Second, Herro in his frashman year was waaay better than Okeke in his. It's not even really close.

Not only that, we know for fact that both Herro and Washington can contribute right away ( both at 12-13 ppg range ) . It's yet to be seen what Okeke can bring.

Okeke's realistic expetation is to be role player off bench for Orlando, until and if he proves he is more than that. With Aminu,Gordon,Isaac he won't play much anyway any time soon.

I dont know if Chuma will be better, but i like his upside. Its hard to predict development, but his progression rate in college was steep. I would rather bet on 6'7/6'8 forward with 7 foot wingspan and elite team defense, shooting 38% from 3 point range than 6'5 shooting guard with negative wingspan and average at best team defense. I am very curious how miami defense will function in playoffs, Adebayo will have a lot of work.


Shooting 38% at college is solid indicator of ok jumpshot but on greater scale doesn't really mean much.
Lonzo was like +40% three point shooter at college, Malik Monk was 40% three point shooter...

I still don't see hype. Good defense, solid jumpshot... What esle? He is undersized PF and not skilled ballhandler or shot creator at SF.

In my eyes he is similar type of talent PJ Washington is. Glue guy.


Lonzo had a broken form and still he is starting to be a decent 3 point shooter, Monk is just an outlier.

I see not good but elite team defense, with ability to protect the rim (which is still crucial, see the Bucks). Shot is fluid, versatile and i see huge space for growth.


If he develops his pull up game we are talking about Kemba Walker/ Kawhi Leonard/ Kyle Lowry jump (guess who developed Walker pull up game ? ).
Regarding his development, look at his college stats. Two point percentage went from 0,509 to 0,574, free throws from 0,673 to 0,722, assist percentage from 9,6% to 12,5, block percentage from 3,9 to 5,5 !, steals percentage from 1,7 to 3,6 !!!! (indicator of athletecism, coordination and feel for the game). All of this as his responsibility and usage went up from 16,2 to 20,0 ( only minus is the raise of turnover rate from great 10,6 to 14,7).
Pj at the other hand made improvements, but not in the same stratosphere as Chuma. I obviously cant predict the future, but his ceiling is very high to me.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#584 » by tiderulz » Fri May 29, 2020 8:20 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:You kind of did but the other way ;) unless Okeke forgot how to shoot and defend i will take the risk with him. Pj and Herro are good rotation players, but nothing really special.


Really?
Non of them had year and half rehab due ACL tear, that alone is big factor.
Second, Herro in his frashman year was waaay better than Okeke in his. It's not even really close.

Not only that, we know for fact that both Herro and Washington can contribute right away ( both at 12-13 ppg range ) . It's yet to be seen what Okeke can bring.

Okeke's realistic expetation is to be role player off bench for Orlando, until and if he proves he is more than that. With Aminu,Gordon,Isaac he won't play much anyway any time soon.

I dont know if Chuma will be better, but i like his upside. Its hard to predict development, but his progression rate in college was steep. I would rather bet on 6'7/6'8 forward with 7 foot wingspan and elite team defense, shooting 38% from 3 point range than 6'5 shooting guard with negative wingspan and average at best team defense. I am very curious how miami defense will function in playoffs, Adebayo will have a lot of work.

so basically JJ Redick
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#585 » by SOUL » Fri May 29, 2020 9:36 pm

Pulling out any sort of college numbers doesn't matter since the NBA is a whole new beast. Chuma clearly has the skillset to provide impact on both ends, which is all we hope for. If he can reach the level of being a two way player and floor stretcher, that's pretty valuable.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#586 » by zaymon » Fri May 29, 2020 9:59 pm

SOUL wrote:Pulling out any sort of college numbers doesn't matter since the NBA is a whole new beast. Chuma clearly has the skillset to provide impact on both ends, which is all we hope for. If he can reach the level of being a two way player and floor stretcher, that's pretty valuable.

Well development is something you can measure by the numbers despite being it on a college level becouse you compare it against similar level of competition. I agree you cant predict the outcome in the nba, but it tells you something quite objective. If he ends up a role player or something more depends largely on his pull up game. We will see.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#587 » by SOUL » Fri May 29, 2020 10:13 pm

zaymon wrote:
SOUL wrote:Pulling out any sort of college numbers doesn't matter since the NBA is a whole new beast. Chuma clearly has the skillset to provide impact on both ends, which is all we hope for. If he can reach the level of being a two way player and floor stretcher, that's pretty valuable.

Well development is something you can measure by the numbers despite being it on a college level becouse you compare it against similar level of competition. I agree you cant predict the outcome in the nba, but it tells you something quite objective. If he ends up a role player or something more depends largely on his pull up game. We will see.


Of course I just meant like both sides, pulling out Lonzo etc numbers too from pepe. Can't predict if shooting will translate or not but it shows good promise at least. I hope he can at the very least be a Trevor Ariza sort of player.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#588 » by EAS Law » Fri May 29, 2020 10:25 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
EAS Law wrote:
tiderulz wrote:considered Chuma hasnt played an NBA minute, too early to make that determination

I haven’t seen much of Washington, but Herro is pretty decent. Even in his best of the best highlights, I cannot see why we chose Chuma even without his injury.


Chuma was a legitimate mid-late lottery projection pre-injury.

If you appreciate defense and the ability to his open shots then you appreciate Chuma. He is a true 3&D player who can guard multiple positions.

He isn’t overly flashy and isn’t likely to end up in a slam dunk contest if that is what matters to you but he will be productive at a position and skill set of need on this roster.

In the middle of the first round there are always a handful of names worthy of picking. I’m not saying Chuma was the one and only name to pick or even the #1 pick I would have made but if you can’t see why his talent brings value to Orlando then you’re not paying attention.

I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I guess what I mean is that his skill set is absolutely average. A player like him is very easy to find in feee agency or trade as a throw-in. I know with where we were picking, it’s unlikely to find a star, but we also have a ton of forwards already and I just don’t know that he does anything for us that even particularly improves the team.

Again, I hope I’m very wrong in the end.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#589 » by MagicFan101 » Fri May 29, 2020 11:21 pm

EAS Law wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
EAS Law wrote:I haven’t seen much of Washington, but Herro is pretty decent. Even in his best of the best highlights, I cannot see why we chose Chuma even without his injury.


Chuma was a legitimate mid-late lottery projection pre-injury.

If you appreciate defense and the ability to his open shots then you appreciate Chuma. He is a true 3&D player who can guard multiple positions.

He isn’t overly flashy and isn’t likely to end up in a slam dunk contest if that is what matters to you but he will be productive at a position and skill set of need on this roster.

In the middle of the first round there are always a handful of names worthy of picking. I’m not saying Chuma was the one and only name to pick or even the #1 pick I would have made but if you can’t see why his talent brings value to Orlando then you’re not paying attention.

I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I guess what I mean is that his skill set is absolutely average. A player like him is very easy to find in feee agency or trade as a throw-in. I know with where we were picking, it’s unlikely to find a star, but we also have a ton of forwards already and I just don’t know that he does anything for us that even particularly improves the team.

Again, I hope I’m very wrong in the end.


Absolutely average is pretty darn good on a rookie contract when we’re talking about a prospect considered to have a very high floor and being a safe pick.

Everyone wants an entire roster of all-stars but how about we fill our the roster with smart players with NBA skill sets who can CONSISTENTLY contribute and help us avoid night letdowns when our key players go out of the game?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#590 » by Knightro » Fri May 29, 2020 11:34 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Okeke's realistic expectation is to be role player off bench for Orlando, until and if he proves he is more than that. With Aminu,Gordon,Isaac he won't play much anyway any time soon.


Assuming all those guys are here next season :wink:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#591 » by BadMofoPimp » Sat May 30, 2020 12:06 am

Rodman was a 15-25mpg Small Forward his first 2 seasons not doing a whole lot as he came into the NBA at age 24. Okeke will have plenty of time to prove himself.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#592 » by tiderulz » Sat May 30, 2020 3:02 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:Rodman was a 15-25mpg Small Forward his first 2 seasons not doing a whole lot as he came into the NBA at age 24. Okeke will have plenty of time to prove himself.

yep, and there was hand checking, kids didnt train or develop as early too. things are much different in todays game
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#593 » by zaymon » Sat May 30, 2020 7:25 am

EAS Law wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
EAS Law wrote:I haven’t seen much of Washington, but Herro is pretty decent. Even in his best of the best highlights, I cannot see why we chose Chuma even without his injury.


Chuma was a legitimate mid-late lottery projection pre-injury.

If you appreciate defense and the ability to his open shots then you appreciate Chuma. He is a true 3&D player who can guard multiple positions.

He isn’t overly flashy and isn’t likely to end up in a slam dunk contest if that is what matters to you but he will be productive at a position and skill set of need on this roster.

In the middle of the first round there are always a handful of names worthy of picking. I’m not saying Chuma was the one and only name to pick or even the #1 pick I would have made but if you can’t see why his talent brings value to Orlando then you’re not paying attention.

I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I guess what I mean is that his skill set is absolutely average. A player like him is very easy to find in feee agency or trade as a throw-in. I know with where we were picking, it’s unlikely to find a star, but we also have a ton of forwards already and I just don’t know that he does anything for us that even particularly improves the team.

Again, I hope I’m very wrong in the end.

You are certainly wrong. Players 6'7+, shooting 36% + from 3 and 1,5+ steals= well its not players, its only one player, Kawhi Leonard.
If you lower steals to 1+ you get a list of Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, Paul George, Evan Fournier, Otto Porter, TJ Warren, OG Anunoby, Trevor Ariza.
Not a particulary long list. Players with this skill set get around mle when they are flawed one way or the other, and around max when they are two way players. Its the hardest height/skill set to find in the nba, even without great handle and pull up game.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#594 » by drsd » Sat May 30, 2020 8:28 am

Skybox wrote:I don't think ORL will have ANY home court advantage...no crowd and no going home at night (the whole point is the quarantine advantage of "Disney Island" (I thought). If ORL players are allowed to leave, it destroys any safety measures for everyone.


The Magic know the court, the background (distractions) and understand the nature of the training room and practice facilities. There are advantages to those things.


..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#595 » by MagicFan101 » Sat May 30, 2020 12:08 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I don't think ORL will have ANY home court advantage...no crowd and no going home at night (the whole point is the quarantine advantage of "Disney Island" (I thought). If ORL players are allowed to leave, it destroys any safety measures for everyone.


The Magic know the court, the background (distractions) and understand the nature of the training room and practice facilities. There are advantages to those things.


..


I think having a Giannis or Lebron matter a tiny bit more than being familiar with the training room but that’s just me.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#596 » by pepe1991 » Sat May 30, 2020 12:11 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:I dont know if Chuma will be better, but i like his upside. Its hard to predict development, but his progression rate in college was steep. I would rather bet on 6'7/6'8 forward with 7 foot wingspan and elite team defense, shooting 38% from 3 point range than 6'5 shooting guard with negative wingspan and average at best team defense. I am very curious how miami defense will function in playoffs, Adebayo will have a lot of work.


Shooting 38% at college is solid indicator of ok jumpshot but on greater scale doesn't really mean much.
Lonzo was like +40% three point shooter at college, Malik Monk was 40% three point shooter...

I still don't see hype. Good defense, solid jumpshot... What esle? He is undersized PF and not skilled ballhandler or shot creator at SF.

In my eyes he is similar type of talent PJ Washington is. Glue guy.


Lonzo had a broken form and still he is starting to be a decent 3 point shooter, Monk is just an outlier.

I see not good but elite team defense, with ability to protect the rim (which is still crucial, see the Bucks). Shot is fluid, versatile and i see huge space for growth.


If he develops his pull up game we are talking about Kemba Walker/ Kawhi Leonard/ Kyle Lowry jump (guess who developed Walker pull up game ? ).
Regarding his development, look at his college stats. Two point percentage went from 0,509 to 0,574, free throws from 0,673 to 0,722, assist percentage from 9,6% to 12,5, block percentage from 3,9 to 5,5 !, steals percentage from 1,7 to 3,6 !!!! (indicator of athletecism, coordination and feel for the game). All of this as his responsibility and usage went up from 16,2 to 20,0 ( only minus is the raise of turnover rate from great 10,6 to 14,7).
Pj at the other hand made improvements, but not in the same stratosphere as Chuma. I obviously cant predict the future, but his ceiling is very high to me.


Sunshine and rainbows college "development" much like how Iwundu at college in last year averaged 13 points, 6,5 rebounds, 3,5 apg, 1 steal, shot 38% for 3 on 58,5% TS. Just to come in NBA without single offensive basketball skill.
Or Aminu who at collge pulled out 16 ppg, 10rpg, 1,5 spg,1,5 bpg, 1,5apg and in nba for whole lenght of his career he is fringe starter just because he was lucky enough to spend most of his career on teams that don't need him to provide anything on offense.

Or NAW ( who some of us also wanted) who at college looked like legit two - guard with star upside, and in nba he looks like Malik Monk's twin brother.

College numbers can be indicator of talent but lot of times are misleading, meaningless and actually throw lot of scouts and teams in wrong direction ( Noel, Okafor, Stauskas, McDurmott...)

Okeke will enter nba as 22 years old rookie who didn't play serious basketball for year and half. Even before injuries he was average athlete who couldn't create for himself and didn't play with ball much. How will not so athletic wing, who is just 6''7 and can't play with ball translate into nba? Well, as i said, PJ Washington looks like best case scenario .
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#597 » by Skybox » Sat May 30, 2020 1:02 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I don't think ORL will have ANY home court advantage...no crowd and no going home at night (the whole point is the quarantine advantage of "Disney Island" (I thought). If ORL players are allowed to leave, it destroys any safety measures for everyone.


The Magic know the court, the background (distractions) and understand the nature of the training room and practice facilities. There are advantages to those things.


..


My understanding is that they will beat Wide World of Sports on Disney property - notTHEIR arena, locker room, training room...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#598 » by drsd » Sat May 30, 2020 1:43 pm

Skybox wrote:My understanding is that they will beat Wide World of Sports on Disney property - notTHEIR arena, locker room, training room...


Anyone ever been here for a game:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#599 » by Skybox » Sat May 30, 2020 1:49 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:My understanding is that they will beat Wide World of Sports on Disney property - notTHEIR arena, locker room, training room...


Anyone ever been here for a game:


Globetrotters...nice facility overall
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#600 » by Knightro » Sat May 30, 2020 1:54 pm

I don't think anyone really has any delusions of grandeur when it comes to Chuma Okeke. Anyone suggesting that they think Okeke can/will be better than PJ Washington certainly isn't an outrageous take though.

If Chuma can defend a couple different positions at a reasonably high level and make threes, he's be a valuable rotation player. That's about all you can really hope for out of a non-lotto pick.

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