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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#601 » by EAS Law » Sat May 30, 2020 4:34 pm

Knightro wrote:I don't think anyone really has any delusions of grandeur when it comes to Chuma Okeke. Anyone suggesting that they think Okeke can/will be better than PJ Washington certainly isn't an outrageous take.

If Chuma can defend a couple different positions at a reasonably high level and make threes, he's be a valuable rotation player. That's about all you can really hope for out of a non-lotto pick.

I don’t know—apparently we are comparing him to Kawhi, Tatum, Lowry, and Kemba... seems kind of lofty.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#602 » by basketballRob » Sat May 30, 2020 4:36 pm

I think we'll have to make a trade this year to consolidate some of our assets. We're getting too many players. I could see dealing 2 or 3 of our players for 1.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#603 » by EAS Law » Sat May 30, 2020 4:37 pm

zaymon wrote:
EAS Law wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Chuma was a legitimate mid-late lottery projection pre-injury.

If you appreciate defense and the ability to his open shots then you appreciate Chuma. He is a true 3&D player who can guard multiple positions.

He isn’t overly flashy and isn’t likely to end up in a slam dunk contest if that is what matters to you but he will be productive at a position and skill set of need on this roster.

In the middle of the first round there are always a handful of names worthy of picking. I’m not saying Chuma was the one and only name to pick or even the #1 pick I would have made but if you can’t see why his talent brings value to Orlando then you’re not paying attention.

I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I guess what I mean is that his skill set is absolutely average. A player like him is very easy to find in feee agency or trade as a throw-in. I know with where we were picking, it’s unlikely to find a star, but we also have a ton of forwards already and I just don’t know that he does anything for us that even particularly improves the team.

Again, I hope I’m very wrong in the end.

You are certainly wrong. Players 6'7+, shooting 36% + from 3 and 1,5+ steals= well its not players, its only one player, Kawhi Leonard.
If you lower steals to 1+ you get a list of Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, Paul George, Evan Fournier, Otto Porter, TJ Warren, OG Anunoby, Trevor Ariza.
Not a particulary long list. Players with this skill set get around mle when they are flawed one way or the other, and around max when they are two way players. Its the hardest height/skill set to find in the nba, even without great handle and pull up game.

Are you comparing Chuma college numbers to the NBA superstar stats as professionals?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#604 » by zaymon » Sat May 30, 2020 6:14 pm

EAS Law wrote:
zaymon wrote:
EAS Law wrote:I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I guess what I mean is that his skill set is absolutely average. A player like him is very easy to find in feee agency or trade as a throw-in. I know with where we were picking, it’s unlikely to find a star, but we also have a ton of forwards already and I just don’t know that he does anything for us that even particularly improves the team.

Again, I hope I’m very wrong in the end.

You are certainly wrong. Players 6'7+, shooting 36% + from 3 and 1,5+ steals= well its not players, its only one player, Kawhi Leonard.
If you lower steals to 1+ you get a list of Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, Paul George, Evan Fournier, Otto Porter, TJ Warren, OG Anunoby, Trevor Ariza.
Not a particulary long list. Players with this skill set get around mle when they are flawed one way or the other, and around max when they are two way players. Its the hardest height/skill set to find in the nba, even without great handle and pull up game.

Are you comparing Chuma college numbers to the NBA superstar stats as professionals?

Ariza and Warren are superstars ? You wrote about a skill set. Big wing or forward who is a good 3 point shooter and good team defender. Its in the air if Chuma will sniff even Ariza numbers, but his skill set is as i wrote above. I didnt want to be mean, i just felt its quite obvious to show you your fault in logic without waiting for Chuma to start playing becouse the archetype is very valueable. If you want to prove your point show me this bunch of cheap versatile forwards waiting to sign. Its basically list i provided plus Oubre and Thadeus Young as worse shooters.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#605 » by Knightro » Sat May 30, 2020 6:33 pm

EAS Law wrote:I don’t know—apparently we are comparing him to Kawhi, Tatum, Lowry, and Kemba... seems kind of lofty.


I think that's a little out of context to what the other poster was saying.

He can certainly correct me if I'm misinterpreting it, but I don't think he was suggesting Okeke will end up being as good as any of those players.

I think he was citing those four guys all as players who made pretty significant jumps in NBA production compared to their college production after they got into the NBA. And that it wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility for Okeke to do something similar if certain elements of his game are able to expand and he's able to build off the existing skill set he showed in college.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#606 » by EAS Law » Sat May 30, 2020 7:14 pm

zaymon wrote:
EAS Law wrote:
zaymon wrote:You are certainly wrong. Players 6'7+, shooting 36% + from 3 and 1,5+ steals= well its not players, its only one player, Kawhi Leonard.
If you lower steals to 1+ you get a list of Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, Paul George, Evan Fournier, Otto Porter, TJ Warren, OG Anunoby, Trevor Ariza.
Not a particulary long list. Players with this skill set get around mle when they are flawed one way or the other, and around max when they are two way players. Its the hardest height/skill set to find in the nba, even without great handle and pull up game.

Are you comparing Chuma college numbers to the NBA superstar stats as professionals?

Ariza and Warren are superstars ? You wrote about a skill set. Big wing or forward who is a good 3 point shooter and good team defender. Its in the air if Chuma will sniff even Ariza numbers, but his skill set is as i wrote above. I didnt want to be mean, i just felt its quite obvious to show you your fault in logic without waiting for Chuma to start playing becouse the archetype is very valueable. If you want to prove your point show me this bunch of cheap versatile forwards waiting to sign. Its basically list i provided plus Oubre and Thadeus Young as worse shooters.

I wasn’t trying to be mean either. I wasn’t sure if you were comparing the numbers from tho other players before they were in the NBA. I maybe don’t understand what you were saying...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#607 » by zaymon » Sat May 30, 2020 8:08 pm

EAS Law wrote:
zaymon wrote:
EAS Law wrote:Are you comparing Chuma college numbers to the NBA superstar stats as professionals?

Ariza and Warren are superstars ? You wrote about a skill set. Big wing or forward who is a good 3 point shooter and good team defender. Its in the air if Chuma will sniff even Ariza numbers, but his skill set is as i wrote above. I didnt want to be mean, i just felt its quite obvious to show you your fault in logic without waiting for Chuma to start playing becouse the archetype is very valueable. If you want to prove your point show me this bunch of cheap versatile forwards waiting to sign. Its basically list i provided plus Oubre and Thadeus Young as worse shooters.

I wasn’t trying to be mean either. I wasn’t sure if you were comparing the numbers from tho other players before they were in the NBA. I maybe don’t understand what you were saying...

I was not writing specifically about Chuma, but more about his potential skill set. There is no guarantee he will reach it, but stats are promising. Make no mistake i am not equally optimistic about all our prospects. I was very disappointed when we drafted Bamba. Last year i knew we werent drafting NAW. This whole situation with him staying in Orlando for 2 days and dining with Weltman and Hammond seemed like a smoke screen. I didnt know who we will draft, i thought Grant Williams or Brandon Clarke, but i knew Weltman will suprise us. The reaction from draft analysts was also suprising, we were reaching supposedly a second round talent with a near lottery pick, and they said Chuma is a steal of the draft, very strange. During Okeke Introductory press conference Weltman said " This is a great day for Orlando Magic. Every team gets excited about the draft, but some drafts you get little more excited about than others". He said that after two previous drafts where we drafted in high lottery. I think that says something about his expectations going forward.
I dont know if he will develop his pull up game, he was 4/24 in college, but his shot looks fluid and versatile, and his mentality could change after Clifford takes him in his arms. It cant go worse than Gordon pull up though.... (28,4 fg %)
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#608 » by MagicMatic » Sat May 30, 2020 8:24 pm

Chuma could end up being a complete non-factor as far as we know. His skill set screams solid role player at best.

fwiw I’d love to be wrong and hope he provides way more than a 3&D Danny Green type. (Not like that’s a bad thing in the slightest)
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#609 » by tiderulz » Sat May 30, 2020 8:34 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Chuma could end up being a complete non-factor as far as we know. His skill set screams solid role player at best.

fwiw I’d love to be wrong and hope he provides way more than a 3&D Danny Green type. (Not like that’s a bad thing in the slightest)

for that draft position, ill take a bigger, prime Danny Green.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#610 » by MagicMatic » Sat May 30, 2020 8:42 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Chuma could end up being a complete non-factor as far as we know. His skill set screams solid role player at best.

fwiw I’d love to be wrong and hope he provides way more than a 3&D Danny Green type. (Not like that’s a bad thing in the slightest)

for that draft position, ill take a bigger, prime Danny Green.

Yeah I see nothing wrong with Green, Ariza, Mathews, or Covington type players at that pick.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#611 » by zaymon » Sat May 30, 2020 9:59 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Chuma could end up being a complete non-factor as far as we know. His skill set screams solid role player at best.

fwiw I’d love to be wrong and hope he provides way more than a 3&D Danny Green type. (Not like that’s a bad thing in the slightest)

for that draft position, ill take a bigger, prime Danny Green.

Yeah I see nothing wrong with Green, Ariza, Mathews, or Covington type players at that pick.

Its true it would require unusual big growth to be something more, and even those players are not very common. I cant really think of players with his skill set who are underperforming in the nba right now.... Mikal Bridges ?? but he is getting quite good and he is smaller
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#612 » by bigdogdylan5 » Mon Jun 1, 2020 1:15 pm

If anyone is interested I was listening to the 2005 redraftables with Bill Simmons and Russillo. I totally mind blanked on that was the Fran year but they ripped the hell out of Otis and it was very satisfying. Though they did mention how perfect Granger would have fit on the 2009 team than I got pissed because we probably would have a championship right now if we didn’t screw that up.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#613 » by Def Swami » Mon Jun 1, 2020 4:04 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:If anyone is interested I was listening to the 2005 redraftables with Bill Simmons and Russillo. I totally mind blanked on that was the Fran year but they ripped the hell out of Otis and it was very satisfying. Though they did mention how perfect Granger would have fit on the 2009 team than I got pissed because we probably would have a championship right now if we didn’t screw that up.

My dad and I still bring up taking Fran over Danny Granger. It's a flash bulb moment in Orlando Magic draft history for me. It would have completely changed how the Dwight-era Magic went. IMHO, it was the biggest mistake Otis Smith made before he hastily traded for Gilbert Arenas (I'll defend the Rashard Lewis contract until the cows come home).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#614 » by bigdogdylan5 » Mon Jun 1, 2020 5:31 pm

Def Swami wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:If anyone is interested I was listening to the 2005 redraftables with Bill Simmons and Russillo. I totally mind blanked on that was the Fran year but they ripped the hell out of Otis and it was very satisfying. Though they did mention how perfect Granger would have fit on the 2009 team than I got pissed because we probably would have a championship right now if we didn’t screw that up.

My dad and I still bring up taking Fran over Danny Granger. It's a flash bulb moment in Orlando Magic draft history for me. It would have completely changed how the Dwight-era Magic went. IMHO, it was the biggest mistake Otis Smith made before he hastily traded for Gilbert Arenas (I'll defend the Rashard Lewis contract until the cows come home).

I agree they also ripped the Lewis contract but I have a hard time doing that because he was the perfect guy to put next to Dwight (it was **** ton of money though and I do question if it was really necessary to give him that extra year.). I was too young at the time and didn’t really follow the draft till later. I never knew Granger wasn’t some Leonard guy who just came out of nowhere. He was really skilled in college and he fell because **** GMs over thought it. I really believe the emergence of social media shined a light on how bad 50% of the gms were in the 2000s.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#615 » by RookieStar » Mon Jun 1, 2020 8:21 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Chuma could end up being a complete non-factor as far as we know. His skill set screams solid role player at best.

fwiw I’d love to be wrong and hope he provides way more than a 3&D Danny Green type. (Not like that’s a bad thing in the slightest)

for that draft position, ill take a bigger, prime Danny Green.


Yup.. or heck.. even just danny green at his peak would be a steal at our draft position
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#616 » by greg4012 » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:38 pm

tiderulz wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Really?
Non of them had year and half rehab due ACL tear, that alone is big factor.
Second, Herro in his frashman year was waaay better than Okeke in his. It's not even really close.

Not only that, we know for fact that both Herro and Washington can contribute right away ( both at 12-13 ppg range ) . It's yet to be seen what Okeke can bring.

Okeke's realistic expetation is to be role player off bench for Orlando, until and if he proves he is more than that. With Aminu,Gordon,Isaac he won't play much anyway any time soon.

I dont know if Chuma will be better, but i like his upside. Its hard to predict development, but his progression rate in college was steep. I would rather bet on 6'7/6'8 forward with 7 foot wingspan and elite team defense, shooting 38% from 3 point range than 6'5 shooting guard with negative wingspan and average at best team defense. I am very curious how miami defense will function in playoffs, Adebayo will have a lot of work.

so basically JJ Redick


Or Devin Booker
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#617 » by rcklsscognition » Sun Jun 7, 2020 7:46 pm

Wondering if they'll import all of the team's courts to use at Disney.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#618 » by Knightro » Tue Jun 9, 2020 12:56 am

Def Swami wrote:My dad and I still bring up taking Fran over Danny Granger. It's a flash bulb moment in Orlando Magic draft history for me. It would have completely changed how the Dwight-era Magic went. IMHO, it was the biggest mistake Otis Smith made before he hastily traded for Gilbert Arenas (I'll defend the Rashard Lewis contract until the cows come home).


People still argue against the Rashard Lewis contract?!

The only thing I could see being a minor quibble is giving him a 6th year when they could have probably gotten him for 5 years, but the Magic won 52-59-59-52 in his four years (I know he was traded in year 4) with the team and he was arguably the 2nd best player on those teams.

The Magic weren't getting him for less than the max and they were wildly successful while he was here. Hard to see how anyone could be annoyed with that.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#619 » by Def Swami » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:27 am

Checking in on Isaiah Briscoe
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#620 » by RookieStar » Tue Jun 9, 2020 4:25 am

^^^ Is that like a subway?

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