ImageImageImageImage

Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

Moderators: UCFJayBird, Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami

Driguez
General Manager
Posts: 9,506
And1: 1,953
Joined: Jul 01, 2005
Location: Impartial
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#861 » by Driguez » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:14 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
Driguez wrote:So tomorrows game is at 2:30 ET!? :upset: :sigh: Here I was thinking of watching the game with a few beers....



We live in a WFH world my friend!

... watch the game over a few beers! ;)


Sadly I'm starting to WFM on Sat otherwise that would be the case :lol:
"We all we got"- SVG
User avatar
MagicFan101
General Manager
Posts: 9,122
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jul 04, 2012
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#862 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:21 pm

Driguez wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Driguez wrote:So tomorrows game is at 2:30 ET!? :upset: :sigh: Here I was thinking of watching the game with a few beers....



We live in a WFH world my friend!

... watch the game over a few beers! ;)


Sadly I'm starting to WFM on Sat otherwise that would be the case :lol:


We’re going to be on a Zoom corporate budget report meeting and the team is going to be very curious why I am so emotionally invested their findings ...

“3.5% increase in revenue” — Hell yeah! And-1!!
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 2,679
And1: 788
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#863 » by The Effect » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:24 pm

thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
Why can't we have both and have Evan and Ross off the bench? Trade AG and fillers for him to make the roster more balanced?

I dont think it matches with Weltman team construction strategy. None of them can stop bigger players on switches under the rim. I would much rather give those minutes to Okeke who projects as a capable rim protector on the wing (much cheaper) and trade Gordon for someone else.


In my scenario, the starting lineup would be:

Fultz
LaVine
Chuma
JI
Vuc

with the bench being:

DJ
Ross
Evan
Ennis
Bamba

Obviously we would need a few upgrades here and there but at least that would change the dynamics of this team and move away from Hennigans team even further. I wouldn't be opposed to looking for another option. The only reason why we're discussing LaVine is because he's apparently tired of Chicago.

I really hope youre wrong about evan being here next year. Even if he wasnt a FA i would be hoping he would be gone, but the only thing worse would be bringing him back at a higher salary as a FA

Given this team if we were trade AG for Lavine straight up, im hoping our lineup next year looks something like this

C - Vuc
PF - Isaac
SF - Ennis(in time this should be chuma, but no way they go with him day 1 after missing a year)
SG - Lavine
PG - Fultz

Bench
SF\SG - TRoss
PG - Tyrell Terry (1st round pick), MCW
PF\SF - Chuma
SG\SF - Daymean Dotson (FA, MLE?)
C - Bamba
User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 2,590
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#864 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:25 pm

zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:Personally i dont get the Lavine over Fournier arguments.

Lavine (6'6, 181lb) Fournier (6'7, 205 lb)

Points per game----------- 25.5 ---- 18.8
Usage %--------------------- 31.7 ---- 24.2
Assists/ turnovers--------- 4.2/3.4 ---- 3.2/2.0
Passes made--------------- 39.4 ---- 25.3
Pick and roll ball handler: 0.89 ppp ---- 0.95 ppp
Transition------------------- 1.18 ppp ---- 1.20 ppp
Spot up---------------------- 0.95 ppp ---- 1.17 ppp
Off Screen------------------- 0.98 ppp ---- 1.10 ppp
Hand off--------------------- 0.96 ppp ---- 1.02 ppp
Drive fg%-------------------- 45.4 ---- 50.4
Pull up fg%------------------ 35.0 ---- 41.4
FTrate----------------------- 0.279 ---- 0.236

So basically case for Lavine is volume, ball moving and free throw rate. Case for Fournier is size, passing, decision making, ball handling, shooting, shot creation, finishing.


Why can't we have both and have Evan and Ross off the bench? Trade AG and fillers for him to make the roster more balanced?

I dont think it matches with Weltman team construction strategy. None of them can stop bigger players on switches under the rim. I would much rather give those minutes to Okeke who projects as a capable rim protector on the wing (much cheaper) and trade Gordon for someone else.


Might be crazy but at some point this FO is going to have to construct a roster to put the ball in the hoop. Get over the idiotic wet dream of 1/5 switchable defensive players. We’ve got 3-4 defensive dudes go get an alpha scorer like Lavine if he’s available
LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC... CAN’T SHOOT
basketballRob
General Manager
Posts: 8,948
And1: 3,241
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#865 » by basketballRob » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:43 pm

Howard Mass wrote:I'd like to see something worked out maybe a three-way deal where Buddy Hield comes back for Aaron Gordon.
Vuc works better contract wise. Then if Fournier opts in you'd probably have to trade him. Maybe to Golden State who has a 17m TPE. Then deal AG to Minnesota for James Johnson and a top 5 pick.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
NotACat
Starter
Posts: 2,252
And1: 1,095
Joined: Apr 28, 2018

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#866 » by NotACat » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:59 am

Knightro wrote:In LaVine's 6 year career, his teams have won 16, 29, 31, 27, 22 and 22 games.

He's a talented player, but man. The case could be made that he's never played a meaningful game of basketball in his professional career.

I'm always a little weary about guys who have done nothing but lose big their entire careers.

On the other hand, he has expressed his frustration and wants to be on a winning team. Him joining a team like ours that's still young and has been to the playoffs the last 2 years could be the kind of team he's looking to join and go all out.

https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/zach-lavine-chicago-bulls/
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
PrimeThyme
General Manager
Posts: 8,197
And1: 10,535
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#867 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:25 am

I wouldn't bet the house on Lavine and give up a ton of value, that's for sure && I would also expect some bad habits to carry over from his time on perennial bottom feeders as well. But if there is one thing that I have confidence in Clifford with, and it very well may only be one single thing, it's getting the best out a player defensively and getting them to commit to some level of winning basketball.

That's what he did with this roster in year one. Now, I have significant doubt about his ability to actually elevate a roster past that point (6-8th seed) but I do think he's very good at initially getting a player to commit to his system and buy into a winning style.

It also doesn't hurt that I think we have a perennial top 5 defender on this team who will (granted he stays healthy) be able to anchor this defense for years to come and make up for a lot of shortcoming particular players on this roster might have on that end. Lavine would be a risk I'd be willing to take for those reasons.
Image
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 7,811
And1: 8,642
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#868 » by Knightro » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:41 am

NotACat wrote:On the other hand, he has expressed his frustration and wants to be on a winning team. Him joining a team like ours that's still young and has been to the playoffs the last 2 years could be the kind of team he's looking to join and go all out.

https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/zach-lavine-chicago-bulls/


Guys say stuff all the time.

I'm sure he would prefer winning over losing, but would he be comfortable getting his usage reduced dramatically at the same time?
NotACat
Starter
Posts: 2,252
And1: 1,095
Joined: Apr 28, 2018

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#869 » by NotACat » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:45 am

Knightro wrote:
NotACat wrote:On the other hand, he has expressed his frustration and wants to be on a winning team. Him joining a team like ours that's still young and has been to the playoffs the last 2 years could be the kind of team he's looking to join and go all out.

https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/zach-lavine-chicago-bulls/


Guys say stuff all the time.

I'm sure he would prefer winning over losing, but would he be comfortable getting his usage reduced dramatically at the same time?

Fair point
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 24,017
And1: 12,259
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Aaron Gordon Island
Contact:
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#870 » by Def Swami » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:02 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Lavine will bring an excitement similar to the T-Mac signing.

Probably, would be our most explosive scorer since T-Mac tbh.

The last guard for the Magic to average more than 20 ppg for a season was Steve Francis. :o
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 24,017
And1: 12,259
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Aaron Gordon Island
Contact:
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#871 » by Def Swami » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:06 am

Howard Mass wrote:I'd like to see something worked out maybe a three-way deal where Buddy Hield comes back for Aaron Gordon.

Once Hield's extension kicks in, a 3 way deal sending Hield to Chicago, Lavine to Orlando, and either Gordon or Vucevic to Sacramento could probably be easily done financially.
User avatar
Howard Mass
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 58,019
And1: 11,890
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Location: Longwood, Florida
Contact:
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#872 » by Howard Mass » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:06 am

Def Swami wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:I'd like to see something worked out maybe a three-way deal where Buddy Hield comes back for Aaron Gordon.

Once Hield's extension kicks in, a 3 way deal sending Hield to Chicago, Lavine to Orlando, and either Gordon or Vucevic could probably be easily done financially.


I prefer Hield over Lavine.
R.I.P. Dharam Raghubir (A.K.A. Magnumt)

:beer:
User avatar
MagicFan101
General Manager
Posts: 9,122
And1: 5,113
Joined: Jul 04, 2012
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#873 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:11 am

Howard Mass wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:I'd like to see something worked out maybe a three-way deal where Buddy Hield comes back for Aaron Gordon.

Once Hield's extension kicks in, a 3 way deal sending Hield to Chicago, Lavine to Orlando, and either Gordon or Vucevic could probably be easily done financially.


I prefer Hield over Lavine.


Agreed but I’m desperate for offense right now and really just want a seat at this trade table.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 11,787
And1: 9,428
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#874 » by pepe1991 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:17 am

Howard Mass wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:I'd like to see something worked out maybe a three-way deal where Buddy Hield comes back for Aaron Gordon.

Once Hield's extension kicks in, a 3 way deal sending Hield to Chicago, Lavine to Orlando, and either Gordon or Vucevic could probably be easily done financially.


I prefer Hield over Lavine.


Why?
i mean Hield is bit better stand still shooter but that's only thing he does better.
On top of that he will be 28 when first year of his 4 years massive $106M contract starts.

He is not ballhandler, he is not shot creator, he is not good defender, he draws almost no fouls whatsoever.
20 points on 16,6 shots, for comparison Evan gives you 19 on 14 shots. He is latheral improvment at best.

Now if goal is to never really get better, rather just groom "star" for Lakers and make Fultz and Isaac look better than they are, sure, fill roster with players that make them look better. If goal is to actually compete in near future for anything, you need player with actual star potential, Lavine is probably 1 good team/coach away from being allstar for next 5 years. 5 years from now Hield will be 33, still eating that sweet $28M a year for spot up shooting.

Hield isn't even best player on his own team, it's a Fox by wide margin. Funniest part is fact that it's not even Hield who is second option in close game situations, it's Bogdan Bogdanovic.
Second best player on Lavine's team is who? Lauri? Thad Young? Satoransky? Rookie White?
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
RookieStar
General Manager
Posts: 8,601
And1: 1,450
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#875 » by RookieStar » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:34 am

Anyone making a gamethread? I'm not sure but when is it starting?
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 27,935
And1: 4,438
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#876 » by drsd » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:58 am

RookieStar wrote:Anyone making a gamethread? I'm not sure but when is it starting?


It is a 7:30PM game GMT.

Question: any updates to the Gordon, Isaac, and Iwundu DtD injuries? Also Kurucs and Crawford have declared DtD injuries? Any updates there?
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 44,425
And1: 23,974
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
Contact:
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#877 » by SOUL » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:22 am

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Anyone making a gamethread? I'm not sure but when is it starting?


It is a 7:30PM game EST.

Question: any updates to the Gordon, Isaac, and Iwundu DtD injuries? Also Kurucs and Crawford have declared DtD injuries? Any updates there?


2:30 PM EST actually!
User avatar
RookieStar
General Manager
Posts: 8,601
And1: 1,450
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#878 » by RookieStar » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:42 am

SOUL wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Anyone making a gamethread? I'm not sure but when is it starting?


It is a 7:30PM game EST.

Question: any updates to the Gordon, Isaac, and Iwundu DtD injuries? Also Kurucs and Crawford have declared DtD injuries? Any updates there?


2:30 PM EST actually!


2.30??
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 7,811
And1: 8,642
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#879 » by Knightro » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:45 am

I’m making a thread later this morning unless someone else wants to dive in.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 27,935
And1: 4,438
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#880 » by drsd » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 pm

SOUL wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Anyone making a gamethread? I'm not sure but when is it starting?


It is a 7:30PM game EST.

Question: any updates to the Gordon, Isaac, and Iwundu DtD injuries? Also Kurucs and Crawford have declared DtD injuries? Any updates there?


2:30 PM EST actually!


I meant GMT (i.e. it is a 7:30PM game for us here in the UK).


..

Return to Orlando Magic