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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#901 » by bigdogdylan5 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:56 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I'd rather just get star role players to put around Isaac and Fultz. No thanks on Lavine, he's a really high usage guy with little defense. Even Chicago fans aren't big fans of him. He'd just kill team chemistry.

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Star role players is that a thing?

I know people will roll their eyes but I would say the 2004 pistons had 5 Star role players. We need someone to play the two guard who could score like Billups
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#902 » by bigdogdylan5 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:07 pm

I think our blue print is more 2004 pistons and 2020 raptors than anything else. Top 5 defense top 10-15 offense. All we need is Issac or Fultz to hit and develop offensively to really drive it home. I do think we should target a SG who can score and defend or we might as well stick with Fournier
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#903 » by zaymon » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:11 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:If we gave the same usage to Fournier do you think he could put up Lavine numbers? Is there any statistics that can illustrate that?

Well you must be creative with the stats and extrapolate. For their carriers Fournier is more efficient, but he is also older and have better pick and roll partner. On one hand Lavine gets to the line more frequently on the other hand Fournier is a better decision maker and he shoots better when defended more closely. This year Fournier has the highest usage of his carrier ( 24%) and he is also the most efficient. There is not a huge difference, i would give edge to Lavine in isolation and Fournier in everything else, rest is dependant on system you are plaing in.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#904 » by Bensational » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:34 pm

zaymon wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:If we gave the same usage to Fournier do you think he could put up Lavine numbers? Is there any statistics that can illustrate that?

Well you must be creative with the stats and extrapolate. For their carriers Fournier is more efficient, but he is also older and have better pick and roll partner. On one hand Lavine gets to the line more frequently on the other hand Fournier is a better decision maker and he shoots better when defended more closely. This year Fournier has the highest usage of his carrier ( 24%) and he is also the most efficient. There is not a huge difference, i would give edge to Lavine in isolation and Fournier in everything else, rest is dependant on system you are plaing in.


When Vuc went down Fournier became our go-to option and probably matched LaVine's USG. (Don't have numbers in front of me). Fournier was unconscious over that stretch and put up huge numbers from memory. Could be coincidental timing, or it could be that he found better rhythm with more USG. I know his 4th quarter numbers took a dive over that stretch from the fatigue of the extra workload.

We've never been a team that's really given any single player true #1 USG numbers though. Not since Dwight.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#905 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:50 pm

Sooo ... the Pelicans are currently down by 42 points and NAW still can’t get into the game.

I know he is a favorite on this board in trade talks but is there something wrong with him? We have all assumed he is simply stuck behind a deep rotation but he fell in he draft for a reason.

Or is there an injury I’m unaware of?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#906 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:58 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:Sooo ... the Pelicans are currently down by 42 points and NAW still can’t get into the game.

I know he is a favorite on this board in trade talks but is there something wrong with him? We have all assumed he is simply stuck behind a deep rotation but he fell in he draft for a reason.

Or is there an injury I’m unaware of?

The amount of guards the pelicans have equals the amount of PFs we have. Dude would need 2 injuries to get some time. However Etuan Moore and Frank Jackson are FAs so NAW will probably see 10-15 next year.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#907 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:18 am

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:Sooo ... the Pelicans are currently down by 42 points and NAW still can’t get into the game.

I know he is a favorite on this board in trade talks but is there something wrong with him? We have all assumed he is simply stuck behind a deep rotation but he fell in he draft for a reason.

Or is there an injury I’m unaware of?

The amount of guards the pelicans have equals the amount of PFs we have. Dude would need 2 injuries to get some time. However Etuan Moore and Frank Jackson are FAs so NAW will probably see 10-15 next year.


Speak of the devil ...

They put him in and he is 5-5 so far.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#908 » by RookieStar » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:24 am

Frank is a FA ? I wouldn't mind signing Frank Jackson to replace DJ lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#909 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:30 am

Paul George said he applauds Jonathan Isaac for his stance.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#910 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:34 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:Sooo ... the Pelicans are currently down by 42 points and NAW still can’t get into the game.

I know he is a favorite on this board in trade talks but is there something wrong with him? We have all assumed he is simply stuck behind a deep rotation but he fell in he draft for a reason.

Or is there an injury I’m unaware of?

The amount of guards the pelicans have equals the amount of PFs we have. Dude would need 2 injuries to get some time. However Etuan Moore and Frank Jackson are FAs so NAW will probably see 10-15 next year.


Speak of the devil ...

They put him in and he is 5-5 so far.


That’s a solid debut

Nickeil Alexander-Walker's NBA Bubble debut: 15 points (6-7 from the field including 2-3 from 3), 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 rebound in 12 minutes.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#911 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:35 am

RookieStar wrote:Frank is a FA ? I wouldn't mind signing Frank Jackson to replace DJ lol

He’ll be an RFA sorry
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#912 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:55 am

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:The amount of guards the pelicans have equals the amount of PFs we have. Dude would need 2 injuries to get some time. However Etuan Moore and Frank Jackson are FAs so NAW will probably see 10-15 next year.


Speak of the devil ...

They put him in and he is 5-5 so far.


That’s a solid debut

Nickeil Alexander-Walker's NBA Bubble debut: 15 points (6-7 from the field including 2-3 from 3), 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 rebound in 12 minutes.


Now, we need to be clear here. It was complete end of bench blowout garbage time. Still, hitting open shots is still a skill I’ll take at this point.

We have a number of players who have been given similar chances recently and have fallen on their face.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#913 » by Knightro » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:24 am

Bensational wrote:When Vuc went down Fournier became our go-to option and probably matched LaVine's USG. (Don't have numbers in front of me). Fournier was unconscious over that stretch and put up huge numbers from memory. Could be coincidental timing, or it could be that he found better rhythm with more USG. I know his 4th quarter numbers took a dive over that stretch from the fatigue of the extra workload.

We've never been a team that's really given any single player true #1 USG numbers though. Not since Dwight.


In the 11 games Vucevic missed, Fournier averaged 24.1 PPG on a 28.8 USG% with a .622 TS%.

Arguably the best stretch of his entire career.

Including the game Vucevic got hurt, the Magic went 5-7 when he was out.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#914 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:46 am

Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:When Vuc went down Fournier became our go-to option and probably matched LaVine's USG. (Don't have numbers in front of me). Fournier was unconscious over that stretch and put up huge numbers from memory. Could be coincidental timing, or it could be that he found better rhythm with more USG. I know his 4th quarter numbers took a dive over that stretch from the fatigue of the extra workload.

We've never been a team that's really given any single player true #1 USG numbers though. Not since Dwight.


In the 11 games Vucevic missed, Fournier averaged 24.1 PPG on a 28.8 USG% with a .622 TS%.

Arguably the best stretch of his entire career.

Including the game Vucevic got hurt, the Magic went 5-7 when he was out.


To be fair, we were without Gordon for a few early games in that stretch and had to start Wes Iwundu for 3 games (losing 2).

The idea of adding Lavine would be to pair him with a more mature lineup than one with Wes and Birch.

We would want a core of Isaac, Fultz and Vuc around him ... perhaps Chuma if he is what WeHam envisioned.

I don’t know if that would result in more wins but it’s not quite apples to apples with the 11 games above.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#915 » by Knightro » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:34 am

MagicFan101 wrote:To be fair, we were without Gordon for a few early games in that stretch and had to start Wes Iwundu for 3 games (losing 2).

The idea of adding Lavine would be to pair him with a more mature lineup than one with Wes and Birch.

We would want a core of Isaac, Fultz and Vuc around him ... perhaps Chuma if he is what WeHam envisioned.

I don’t know if that would result in more wins but it’s not quite apples to apples with the 11 games above.


Yeah I mean there's all kinds of noise and necessary context in small sample sizes. The Magic are 4-0 without Fournier, ya know?

Circling back to LaVine - what do you think is realistic?

Gordon for LaVine straight up?

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine and Satoransky?

Fournier + 16 for LaVine?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#916 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:41 am

Knightro wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:To be fair, we were without Gordon for a few early games in that stretch and had to start Wes Iwundu for 3 games (losing 2).

The idea of adding Lavine would be to pair him with a more mature lineup than one with Wes and Birch.

We would want a core of Isaac, Fultz and Vuc around him ... perhaps Chuma if he is what WeHam envisioned.

I don’t know if that would result in more wins but it’s not quite apples to apples with the 11 games above.


Yeah I mean there's all kinds of noise and necessary context in small sample sizes. The Magic are 4-0 without Fournier, ya know?

Circling back to LaVine - what do you think is realistic?

Gordon for LaVine straight up?

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine and Satoransky?

Fournier + 16 for LaVine?


I mean, I would rather have Buddy Hield who is currently a backup for Sacramento but I’m also not complaining about either option at this point.

I offered to idea of AG + Evan + 16 for Lavine + Thad Young.

We get our scorer in Lavine and Chicago gets AG, a pick and saves a year of cap space in the Young for Evan swap.

I think there will be a number of teams lining up to get him (Knicks?) so we need to spend a bit.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#917 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:37 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:To be fair, we were without Gordon for a few early games in that stretch and had to start Wes Iwundu for 3 games (losing 2).

The idea of adding Lavine would be to pair him with a more mature lineup than one with Wes and Birch.

We would want a core of Isaac, Fultz and Vuc around him ... perhaps Chuma if he is what WeHam envisioned.

I don’t know if that would result in more wins but it’s not quite apples to apples with the 11 games above.


Yeah I mean there's all kinds of noise and necessary context in small sample sizes. The Magic are 4-0 without Fournier, ya know?

Circling back to LaVine - what do you think is realistic?

Gordon for LaVine straight up?

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine and Satoransky?

Fournier + 16 for LaVine?


I mean, I would rather have Buddy Hield who is currently a backup for Sacramento but I’m also not complaining about either option at this point.

I offered to idea of AG + Evan + 16 for Lavine + Thad Young.

We get our scorer in Lavine and Chicago gets AG, a pick and saves a year of cap space in the Young for Evan swap.

I think there will be a number of teams lining up to get him (Knicks?) so we need to spend a bit.

If we can turn Evan and the 16th into Lavine.... i'm totally down (doubt it would be possible though). we get 2 years on a scoring guard extra that will be able to play now and will be a good compliment next to fultz .... on the offensive end as he shoots the 3 well... is as athletic as they come and is a secondary/primary ball handler. And if cliff can make him into a decent/average defender :-D... we got something going.

Caris levert is another intriguing player.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#918 » by ORL_on_FIRE » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:47 am

Hey everyone! Long time no talk, I hope all is well. Glad basketball is back!

Not sure if this has been brought up yet but Isaacs jersey is the #2 top selling jersey amongst active players only behind Lebron in the NBA store. Its almost sold out.

It seems he's earned himself quite a bit of support, though not for basketball reasons and most likely from people that aren't avid basketball fans... its still kinda cool to see. Anyways... ill catch you guys in the game thread later today! :D
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#919 » by NotACat » Sun Aug 2, 2020 11:56 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:To be fair, we were without Gordon for a few early games in that stretch and had to start Wes Iwundu for 3 games (losing 2).

The idea of adding Lavine would be to pair him with a more mature lineup than one with Wes and Birch.

We would want a core of Isaac, Fultz and Vuc around him ... perhaps Chuma if he is what WeHam envisioned.

I don’t know if that would result in more wins but it’s not quite apples to apples with the 11 games above.


Yeah I mean there's all kinds of noise and necessary context in small sample sizes. The Magic are 4-0 without Fournier, ya know?

Circling back to LaVine - what do you think is realistic?

Gordon for LaVine straight up?

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine and Satoransky?

Fournier + 16 for LaVine?


I mean, I would rather have Buddy Hield who is currently a backup for Sacramento but I’m also not complaining about either option at this point.

I offered to idea of AG + Evan + 16 for Lavine + Thad Young.

We get our scorer in Lavine and Chicago gets AG, a pick and saves a year of cap space in the Young for Evan swap.

I think there will be a number of teams lining up to get him (Knicks?) so we need to spend a bit.

That deal send like an extreme overpay for Orlando, and we have no use for Thad with Aminu on the roster. If we're sending both AG and Fournier, we shouldn't also send our pick and look to get some guard depth in return
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#920 » by Knightro » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:14 pm

NotACat wrote:That deal send like an extreme overpay for Orlando, and we have no use for Thad with Aminu on the roster. If we're sending both AG and Fournier, we shouldn't also send our pick and look to get some guard depth in return


I agree.

Gordon + Fournier + 16 for LaVine + Young feels like a bad deal for Orlando overall.

LaVine has much more eye popping counting stats than Gordon, but AG proved last year that he can be a net positive contributor playing big minutes on a team with a winning record.

Gordon played over 2600 minutes and graded out as a positive offensive and defensive player (both RPM and BPM) with his team playing better with him on the floor. He's not a star, unlikely to ever become a star, but a good team can slot him in at one of their forward spots and be totally fine.

LaVine has never graded out as a positive defender, nor has he ever been on a team that played better with him on the floor. That's a scary proposition because you need him to adjust his game in the name of winning, but his wild, unadjusted game is what you think you lack in the first place.

When you factor in Gordon's contract actually declines, I think AG and LaVine are closer in value than the media would lead you to believe.

Then you throw in Fournier, who for as much as he's a whipping boy on this board, is at least a positive contributor offensively from a shot making perspective and an expiring contract to boot, along with a mid first round pick in a draft deep with guard prospects, for Thad Young's awful contract.

I would pass on that.

Maybe something along the lines of...

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine + Satoransky?

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