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When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise?

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When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#1 » by MasterGMer » Thu May 7, 2020 10:50 pm

Are Markelle Fultz and Jonathann Isaac the corner stone of this franchise to build upon?

Jonathan Isaac has the potential to be all defensive player in the NBA. But what about his offense?

And speaking of Fultz, I have watched plenty of his high school highlight films. If he can have the swag and form back to the old days, I will say Fultz is our franchise PG.

Before Dwight got traded to LAL, even when we were loaded with plenty very good players, the direction of this franchise was going to REBUILD. To get Orlando a Corner Stone to build upon and start rolling again. So as a Magic fan, we waited and waited. We got ourselves Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Mario Herzonja and so forth, there wasn't really a corner stone because neither of them turned out to be that way. The management and fanbase wanted to avoid mediocrity, which means we need a sure fire All Star and even a super star to build this franchise upon.

Are we in a loop of repeating history? We probably will have the 15th pick in 2020 NBA Draft. And I do not think we will draft higher in the next couple years. And to get us a corner stone type of player? We can only either do it in FA or trade.

But does anybody have a plan or idea how we are going to do that? Or which players should we target? DeRozen? Gordon Hayward?

I like what GSW are doing. They want to avoid mediocrity and they know they need to add talent to their roster. So they are rumored that they want Giannis Antetokompo and they are serious about it. Curry, Klay, Giannis and Draymond should get them dominating the league for the next 10 years.

In this pandemic, I know trades and Free Agency are suspended. But at least, as a fan, I want to hear some buzz about our future, to get us a cornerstone player and go deep in the playoff, even possibly win!

I know all I am saying is long with no new information to you. If you don't like it, please ignore it. If you do, I hope you can shed some ideas
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#2 » by MagicMatic » Thu May 7, 2020 11:27 pm

MasterGMer wrote:Are Markelle Fultz and Jonathann Isaac the corner stone of this franchise to build upon?

Jonathan Isaac has the potential to be all defensive player in the NBA. But what about his offense?

And speaking of Fultz, I have watched plenty of his high school highlight films. If he can have the swag and form back to the old days, I will say Fultz is our franchise PG.

Before Dwight got traded to LAL, even when we were loaded with plenty very good players, the direction of this franchise was going to REBUILD. To get Orlando a Corner Stone to build upon and start rolling again. So as a Magic fan, we waited and waited. We got ourselves Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Mario Herzonja and so forth, there wasn't really a corner stone because neither of them turned out to be that way. The management and fanbase wanted to avoid mediocrity, which means we need a sure fire All Star and even a super star to build this franchise upon.

Are we in a loop of repeating history? We probably will have the 15th pick in 2020 NBA Draft. And I do not think we will draft higher in the next couple years. And to get us a corner stone type of player? We can only either do it in FA or trade.

But does anybody have a plan or idea how we are going to do that? Or which players should we target? DeRozen? Gordon Hayward?

I like what GSW are doing. They want to avoid mediocrity and they know they need to add talent to their roster. So they are rumored that they want Giannis Antetokompo and they are serious about it. Curry, Klay, Giannis and Draymond should get them dominating the league for the next 10 years.

In this pandemic, I know trades and Free Agency are suspended. But at least, as a fan, I want to hear some buzz about our future, to get us a cornerstone player and go deep in the playoff, even possibly win!

I know all I am saying is long and with no new information to you. If you don't like it, please ignore it. If you do, I hope you can shed some idea


Orlando has to pray for one of three things in order to land a cornerstone :

1. They steal a potential star from another team with a package of assets via trade.

Landing an already established “older” player won’t be as profitable in terms of assets and timeline in my opinion. I use the word “steal” because Orlando would have to win the trade without making a lateral move leading to nothing more than merely changing the roster.

2. They land one in the draft picking mid-late lottery. Diamond in the rough scenario.

This is less likely to happen and doubtful given the FO’s draft bias and history. It’s possible though.

3. Someone currently on the roster makes a huge unforeseen leap in development.

The least likely to happen. Why? Because players don’t go from non-factors on offense to “cornerstone” very often.
Could Isaac and Fultz be significant contributing factors moving forward? Sure. Dwight-level cornerstones that attract real free agents? Unlikely.

Outside of those options there is what Golden State decided to do with their season. That really isn’t an option for Orlando.

The most important point of landing a cornerstone is to attract free agents and have them buy into what Orlando is building. That hasn’t happened since Dwight left and won’t be the case with this current roster barring at least one of these three things from happening.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#3 » by Max Power » Fri May 8, 2020 1:27 am

Fact is it’s going to have to be the draft if it’s anytime soon. We’re not an in vogue team like we were in Shaq and Dwights era. So big names coming here via free agency isn’t likely until we can draft a young guy to build on. Fultz and Issac are great support pieces, but we need another phenom.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#4 » by Bensational » Fri May 8, 2020 6:02 am

Watching The Last Dance, it's just so obvious how MJ's competitive nature set him apart from everyone else. He was just hungry, 24-7, even as a rookie.

That kind of leadership and culture has just been completely absent from here for a long while. It's rare, obviously, but it would be nice to have that one player capable of lighting a fire under everyone else. Just look at the impact Butler had on that Miami team, and taking what was already a competitive bunch and throwing fuel on that fire.

Internally, Fultz is our best chance. He has shown flashes of being that go-to-guy he used to be, but he's still finding his game. Who knows if he'll ever get there. Isaac is great defensively, but I see his ceiling landing somewhere around where Gordon was for the past couple of months, which is brilliant as a support guy but not a Giannis #1 type.

The rest we know what we have except for Chuma, and it's not #1 standard.

Externally? It's a wide open and unpredictable field of draft, free agency and trades. My money is on the draft. I think we probably swing a deal in the near future moving some of Gordon/Fournier/Vuc for a wing who becomes our next lead guy for a few seasons. He'll give us a boost, maybe into a top 4 seed in the east and a 2nd round visit, but not far enough. And it will be some surprise late-mid first round pick that turns into Siakam who will eventually emerge for this team in 3 or 4 seasons. By then, Fultz and Isaac will be in their primes, and we'll begin our ascent into contention.

So by 2025 we should have one.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#5 » by pepe1991 » Fri May 8, 2020 6:41 am

I'm going through this 2020 draft and i have no clue who next McCullum/Gobert /Giannis are, but probability and odds tell me that this draft still has 4-5 really good players in it hidden somwhere.

I can't recall what was last draft with 0 allstars, it simply doesn't happen. This generation can't be that bad. If Lamelo is more athletic, less mechanically broken Lonzo than he is allstar potential player.
If Deni Avdija can translate his skills into some mix of Doncic and Toni Kukoc / before all the injuries Galinari that's perfect player to compliment Isaac.
There are rumors Warriors will target him.

I would gamble a bit and pull trigger on Gordon for lottery pick+ salary matching player for top 5 pick in heartbeat.

Gordon for Hawks picks, Dedmon, Huerter and , for sake or argument 4th pick. Sign me in. Give them 2020 draft pick, we have Chuma anyway.

i highly doubt any player on current roster has superstar level of talent needed to be contender.
Isaac can be super elite defender, basically new Gobert, it still won't make team contending. Just like Gobert ,despite him and Mitchell ( best case for Fultz ?) it's still not enough to push this superteams with megastar wings Lebron/Kawhi/PG/GIannis
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#6 » by jezzerinho » Fri May 8, 2020 7:50 am

On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#7 » by fendilim » Fri May 8, 2020 8:03 am

jezzerinho wrote:On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...

Not saying he is the next Luka, but this was also said about Luka.

Being heavily coached isn’t bad, IMO. Because it only shows he has strong foundation. What matters is how much does he want it.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#8 » by MoMM » Fri May 8, 2020 8:27 am

pepe1991 wrote:Gordon for Hawks picks, Dedmon, Huerter and , for sake or argument 4th pick. Sign me in. Give them 2020 draft pick, we have Chuma anyway.

I just don't see anyone giving a high pick for AG. Gordon is a former #4 pick that didn't pan out, basically he is the low ceiling for any Top 5 (except real busts). Besides that, his salary is higher than any rookie and he is older as well.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#9 » by Skybox » Fri May 8, 2020 12:18 pm

jezzerinho wrote:On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...


Not knowing much about him (other than here and YouTube), he is certainly intriguing. A couple of months ago, he was generally ranked in the top 3...nobody has laced up since then, so I don't know why he's dropped in mocks. Sports media is basically just us-responding to Woj and then just rolling downhill with it. No new info, but lots of new opinions. Toni Kukoc (or young Hedo?) sounds closest (for now)...very interesting.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#10 » by Skybox » Fri May 8, 2020 12:27 pm

I still think Bamba can and should play a big role here. IMO, he needs a dedicated mentor like Dwight had in Clifford Ray(was it?) to build up his skills, his confidence and constantly disect and discuss his play. If he becomes Gobert with a 40% spot up 3, it just turns loose the rest of the young gang to gamble on D and get out on the break. I know he hasn't done much yet but he and Isaac are a fearsome defensive front court.

Maybe AG fits too if his shot and decision-making clicks a bit more...the three of them (along with Fultz) each ticking up 10-20% in skill, savvy, and confidence at the same time could be special. I don't think that's unrealistic-lots of potential (and relative inexperience) in there. Vuc and Fournier are our best players but if they (both or not) were moved to a contender (they could help NOW). Could potentially be addition by subtraction - totally different style of play.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#11 » by jezzerinho » Fri May 8, 2020 2:24 pm

fendilim wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...

Not saying he is the next Luka, but this was also said about Luka.

Being heavily coached isn’t bad, IMO. Because it only shows he has strong foundation. What matters is how much does he want it.


I guess I should rephrase. Is he an exceptional 18/19 years old because he started early and intensively? Without that early start, how exceptional is he as a basketball athlete? I'm not familiar enough with him to doubt him, but it's a logical question. Does he continue to be exceptional in the NBA?

He has some unicorn qualities for his age and I've heard him interviewed and he's more humble and level-headed than some have reported. He, Markelle and Isaac could really spearhead a high pace transition game. But, in theory so could AG.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#12 » by MagicMatic » Fri May 8, 2020 3:18 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I'm going through this 2020 draft and i have no clue who next McCullum/Gobert /Giannis are, but probability and odds tell me that this draft still has 4-5 really good players in it hidden somwhere.

I can't recall what was last draft with 0 allstars, it simply doesn't happen. This generation can't be that bad. If Lamelo is more athletic, less mechanically broken Lonzo than he is allstar potential player.
If Deni Avdija can translate his skills into some mix of Doncic and Toni Kukoc / before all the injuries Galinari that's perfect player to compliment Isaac.
There are rumors Warriors will target him.

I would gamble a bit and pull trigger on Gordon for lottery pick+ salary matching player for top 5 pick in heartbeat.

Gordon for Hawks picks, Dedmon, Huerter and , for sake or argument 4th pick. Sign me in. Give them 2020 draft pick, we have Chuma anyway.

i highly doubt any player on current roster has superstar level of talent needed to be contender.
Isaac can be super elite defender, basically new Gobert, it still won't make team contending. Just like Gobert ,despite him and Mitchell ( best case for Fultz ?) it's still not enough to push this superteams with megastar wings Lebron/Kawhi/PG/GIannis


If I had to make a wild, somewhat educated, guess I would say Killian Hayes is a likely candidate for a playmaker/scoring initiator in the mid to top tier of this particular draft that we should be targeting.

Obviously Edwards and Ball too, but those two will be either taken in the top 3 (Edwards) or won’t be on WeHams radar (Ball). Deni is also a pretty good call, but I’d say he’s more of a boom or bust prospect.

Outside of Hayes and Deni I’d say Maxey (6’2), Kira Lewis(6’3), and Tyrell Terry (6’2) have a legitimate shot at being capable scorers. I just don’t believe this FO will ever select an undersized 2-guard under any circumstances.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#13 » by Xatticus » Fri May 8, 2020 4:02 pm

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That's our cornerstone. It sucks. I know. But this is where we are. We were in prime position to land one of the premier talents in a loaded 2018 draft, but our front office couldn't appreciate the situation and they doubled down on Vucevic last summer. If you can't catch a fish when the pond is full, then you have no chance when the pond is empty.

We aren't acquiring <insert All Star here> via trade. It doesn't work that way. The only time those guys get moved is when they are damaged goods on a massive contract (e.g. Blake Griffin) or when they force their way out (e.g. Anthony Davis) and nobody is going to force their way to Orlando.

Our best bet is to pick up a talented young player that has been marginalized in a dysfunctional offensive system, but our organization would be the first one I'd look to for players that fit those criteria (Oladipo, Harris, Gordon). Until we actually fix what is broken around here, there isn't much point in acquiring such a player.

Our offense is built around a high-volume big that can't score in the post (Vucevic), a couple wings that can't read the floor (Fournier and Ross), and a point guard that can't find a passing lane (Augustin). NBA offense is the same sets run ad nauseam. You can just look at it as a flow chart. Five guys making basic reads is how good offense happens. If everyone is making the right reads, it looks great, but it really only takes one guy to **** it all up.

The best offense in NBA history was driven by a guy that has a career 3P% of .322. What makes Doncic great is that he executes those same sets better than anyone else does. He isn't a great shooter. He doesn't have a great first step. He doesn't blow by defenders. He uses the basic actions of the offense to create space and reads the reactions of the off-ball defenders to find the right passes. Hennigan was always trying to fill out the roster with shooters, but it doesn't really matter when you don't have anyone that can work their way through the flow chart correctly.

We know Fultz can't shoot. We don't know if he can run an offense because... DJ Augustin. Yes. We had our young PG with zero off-the-ball skills playing off the ball while we run things through the aging journeyman on an expiring contract because that's just how our organization does ****. We try to turn everyone we draft into PJ Tucker while we hand out fat contracts to the guys that steer us to the bottom of the league in offensive efficiency.

The more I ponder the future of our organization, the less I care about whether or not the season resumes.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#14 » by MasterGMer » Fri May 8, 2020 6:54 pm

Both Hayes and Deni Avdija will be picked top 10 based on ESPN Mock Draft. To be honest, I like them both and i think it is a great fit also. But man, I hope we pick higher
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#15 » by j-ragg » Fri May 8, 2020 7:05 pm

Xatticus wrote:The more I ponder the future of our organization, the less I care about whether or not the season resumes.

Last sentence stung the most to read.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#16 » by pepe1991 » Sat May 9, 2020 6:53 am

I don't want to turn this thread into cry me a river thread so i'll try to put more substance about trade options to get a star, or at least more assets to make a play for a star eventually.

First stars, or solid players that should be aveliable to add via trade:
Beal- usual suspect for every trade talk last year and half. Finally can be traded soon.
Myles Turner- not great , not terrible. 24 years old.
Wiggins - nothing to add really
Buddy Hield- not a bad player, maybe bit expensive now
Jrue Holiday- pushing 30s ,still good player
CP3 - age issue
Love- health and age issue
LaVine - i really don't think anything is wrong with him
Brown/Hayward - solid players
Derozan- rumors about him to Magic were loud, there has to be some merit to it.


Other than Giannis demanding a trade or something like that, i don't see any top 5 player in nba being shopped around any time soon. 2020 free agency will probably go down as one of most awkward ones. So i don't see that as valid solution.

So once again i'm back to this 2020 draft class that i think people downtalked themselfs into just because march madness didn't happen and hype machine type media didn't have a chance to have collective cum over 18 years old kids and shower them with expetations they are not ready to handle.
Why Tyres Haliburton can't be star-ish guard? Because he is "old"? At age of 20 ? Ok his jumpshot is somewhat strange, but guy is shooting 42,6% for 3 on 240 three point attemps over 2 years and is well rounded player already.

From what i could find during this virus, i still don't understand why is Saddiq Bay so low among draft boards. Guy is legit shooter, ok scorer, can handle the ball and knows how to fill spots on the floor. 6'8- 215. And once again only logical explanation is "old" at age of 21.
Cassius Stanley is another interesting player. Good build, strong frame, athletic, not the most polished offensive players but most college players are not.

And some late first round or second round options like Sam Merrill. At least you know what he can do. Shoot. 4 years college player, 42% three point shooter on 700 attemps, 89% FT shooter. Knows how to move a ball. In worst case scenario you can put him in corner off bench and let him take 3 threes a game. Should be good to go +36% three point shooter from day one
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#17 » by tiderulz » Sat May 9, 2020 2:54 pm

MoMM wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon for Hawks picks, Dedmon, Huerter and , for sake or argument 4th pick. Sign me in. Give them 2020 draft pick, we have Chuma anyway.

I just don't see anyone giving a high pick for AG. Gordon is a former #4 pick that didn't pan out, basically he is the low ceiling for any Top 5 (except real busts). Besides that, his salary is higher than any rookie and he is older as well.

plus, Atlanta has Jeff Collins at PF and just drafted Hunter at SF and also have Reddish. Cant see why they would trade a good pick for AG, let alone adding in Huerter who they really seem to like
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#18 » by drsd » Sat May 9, 2020 3:39 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I'm going through this 2020 draft and i have no clue who next McCullum/Gobert /Giannis are, but probability and odds tell me that this draft still has 4-5 really good players in it hidden somwhere.



Okeke was a boom or bust selection. Let's reasonably assume the Magic will do the same this year (that is, the Magic is not drafting for a rotational bench player).

So: my (reasonable) list is ...

Jaden McDaniels - length and athleticism are key tools for this management.
RJ Hampton - he for me is the highest upside or bust player in this draft.
Precious Achiuwa - another forward, but his game screams NBA starter.


That's my list.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#19 » by j-ragg » Sat May 9, 2020 3:54 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I'm going through this 2020 draft and i have no clue who next McCullum/Gobert /Giannis are, but probability and odds tell me that this draft still has 4-5 really good players in it hidden somwhere.



Okeke was a boom or bust selection. Let's reasonably assume the Magic will do the same this year (that is, the Magic is not drafting for a rotational bench player).


Boom or bust? He's likely a rotational bench player. Not bad, not great, a 10 year role player. He strikes me as the opposite of boom or bust.

Someone like Kevin Porter Jr (I think closer to bust) strikes me as a boom or bust guy. Could be an all-star or could fade out of the league. I honestly don't think most of our board would know who Okeke is if we didn't draft him and another team did.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#20 » by zaymon » Sat May 9, 2020 4:58 pm

Haliburton has very weak frame, and he avoids contact. His handle isnt sufficient for a lead ball handler. His shot is not very versatile, propably limited to catch and shoot.
Saddiq Bey is not very explosive, and also not particulary good ball handler.
Stanley doesnt have good feel for the game, he has negative passing/ turnover ratio.
They are nice players, but i dont see them ending up as nba lead ball handlers and decision makers.
I would much rather draft Pokusevski, Bolmaro or Kira Lewis. Draft and stash seems like the best option for us this year. I also think we should trade Gordon. I doubt his value will be any higher, and i would rather give his minutes to Isaac and Okeke.

Fultz has more potential than any of the players in this draft. For the time being we should build our offense around him, and our defense around Isaac. Its not a bad spot to be in.
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